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Saorview Content Speculation

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    #1112
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    LCDs do "burn in" just takes longer.

    You should see Call center status screens. Unusable to recycle for TV.


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    #1113
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    I am assuming that the Current RTÉ News Now will be very different to the one launched in May (sometime).


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    #1114
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,447 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Elmo wrote: »
    I am assuming that the Current RTÉ News Now will be very different to the one launched in May (sometime).

    Except that it will have no adverts. IIRCC, RTE did a deal with CIE to have Sky News replaced by RTE NEWS NOW. Do they have adverts on those screens?


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    #1115
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Except that it will have no adverts. IIRCC, RTE did a deal with CIE to have Sky News replaced by RTE NEWS NOW. Do they have adverts on those screens?

    That service seems to be different to the online and saorview services (mainly txt based service). BTW should RTÉ wish to place ads on RTÉ News Now online service they may.

    I assume once launched the ad breaks during live news will be replaced by extra bits and that RTÉ News Now will be timed to allow for those extra bits. Or they could just shows RTÉ publicity advertising.


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    #1116
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Except that it will have no adverts. IIRCC, RTE did a deal with CIE to have Sky News replaced by RTE NEWS NOW. Do they have adverts on those screens?

    Yes they do. It's not the same service as the one on DTT or online.


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    #1117
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,447 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I do not understand why RTE have been restricted to no adverts on the News Now channel. I agree with the kids channels but this smacks of commercial interference not seen since the Ray Burke era. Who benefits?


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    #1118
    warlikedave
    Registered Users Posts: 1,529 ✭✭✭warlikedave


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    I do not understand why RTE have been restricted to no adverts on the News Now channel. I agree with the kids channels but this smacks of commercial interference not seen since the Ray Burke era. Who benefits?

    No one....it comes out of the licence fee plus commercial entities like sky and tv3 have too much say in the determination of dtt chwnnels. Sky wont even be on dtt and tv3 arent willing to invest in new channels or quality shows - they arent willing to make dtt stronger platform so instead they will try and nuture the public service just so they wont have to invest to compete

    Disgraceful stuff really....thats my own opinion anyway


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    #1119
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,447 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    warlikedave wrote: »

    Disgraceful stuff really....thats my own opinion anyway

    Well, I hope that the new Minister does not stand like a rabbit caught in the headlights, and starts running the show and not listening to these vested interests that have an inordinate level of influence on the BAI. Sky do not pay Irish VAT, (which they should,) and TV3 show us what a restricted RTE would be like.

    We need action like merge BAI and Comreg into the same unit. Maybe set the ASO date. Restrict the top salaries of the 'Stars'. We have a new DG, so maybe thing can change.


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    #1120
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    We need action like merge BAI and Comreg into the same unit. Maybe set the ASO date.

    Fine Gael's Simon Coveney said this of the merger of the BAI/Comreg during the Broadcasting Bill debate a few years ago "This is something that will probably happen in time". Labour's Liz McManus said similar.

    The manifestos of the two government parties have similar plans
    Fine Gael

    Competition, Consumer and Utilities Commission: To save taxpayers’ money and to streamline resources, Fine Gael will merge the Competition Authority, the National Consumer Agency (NCA), Broadcasting Authority of Ireland (BAI), the Commission for Communications Regulation (ComReg) and the Commission for Energy Regulation (CER) into a single, more powerful Competition, Consumer and Utilities Commission. We will seek to empower this new over-arching regulator and consumer champion to enforce our Fair Trade Act.
    Labour

    Regulating for the future of broadcasting
    Telecommunications regulatory and licensing matters are currently handled by ComReg, whereas broadcasting regulation and licenses will be the responsibility of the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland. Given the convergence of technology in this sector – i.e. video on demand, mobile broadband – we will merge the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland and ComReg to form one regulatory body.

    This new pan-regulatory body will also have responsibility for protecting consumers from ‘rip off’ charges and for Quality Assurance.

    No specific mention of it in The Programme for Government but I think it will happen.

    The ASO month is known - October 2012 as confirmed by RTÉ.


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    #1121
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    With a BAI / Comreg merger you can get seriously expert consultations. That later implement exactly whatever it was they first had in mind.


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    #1122
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,447 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    watty wrote: »
    With a BAI / Comreg merger you can get seriously expert consultations. That later implement exactly whatever it was they first had in mind.


    .... or whatever they were told to have in their mind.


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    #1123
    icdg
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 11,552 Mod ✭✭✭✭icdg


    Karsini wrote: »
    Yes they do. It's not the same service as the one on DTT or online.

    The service on the giant screens isn't really RTÉ News Now, its branded with the same name, but is basically just text headlines from RTÉ with lots of adverts. There are no programmes on it.

    Of course this isn't regulated and isn't subject to the Minister's direction.

    As for the proposed merger of Comreg and BAI, it is something that should have happened years ago. It should also come with reform of the regulatory regime to abolish the notion of "programme contracts" and replace them with broadcasting licences that covered both content and technical conditions of the service - this happened as long ago as 1990 in the UK.

    My fear would be that in the One Regulator to Rule Them All (which would also include the CER, CAR, part of the IAA, the National Transport Authority, and others) the appointed Board/Commissioners would have so many areas to cover that in fact their role would be reduced to rubber stamping decisions already made at much lower level by full time civil servants. I'd leave utility regulations to a seperate utility regulator.

    It is a civil service truism that consulations tend to be verification exercises - the Terms of Reference can be written to predetermine the outcome...


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    #1124
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    I agree with a merger of the technical side of the BAI and Comreg (Comreg's engineers I assume are the people that the BAI talk to about technical issues anyway.) However a separate content regulator is required, if such a regulator does not exist the regulation is purely there for the technical end of broadcasting. Meaning that the monitoring of Broadcaster content may get sidelined in a large organisation that is also concerned with all type of communications infrastructure in the country.


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    #1125
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    There are Engineers in Comreg. Quite good ones. As to how often their opinions are sought by the paper pushers?


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    #1126
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    watty wrote: »
    There are Engineers in Comreg. Quite good ones. As to how often their opinions are sought by the paper pushers?

    And that is where they should be, and they should regulate the spectrum that Saorview and the BAI's commerical muxs use.


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    #1127
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    The Powers that Be in Comreg do the Regulating. Not the Engineers. Most of the staff are not Engineers as such.


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    #1128
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    watty wrote: »
    The Powers that Be in Comreg do the Regulating. Not the Engineers. Most of the staff are not Engineers as such.

    Well you know what I mean, technical regulation from ComReg, Content Regulation from BAI.


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    #1129
    Mr McBoatface
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,579 ✭✭✭Mr McBoatface


    There seems to be an additional RTE2 running at the moment, it's called "Unknown 454". So there is "RTE2" in HD, "Temporary" (RTE2) and "Unknown 454".

    There is no EPG on "Unknown 454", I've not checked the birate or the resolution. I'm receiving it from Mount Leinster.


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    #1130
    glimmerman123
    Registered Users Posts: 492 ✭✭glimmerman123


    jobyrne30 wrote: »
    There seems to be an additional RTE2 running at the moment, it's called "Unknown 454". So there is "RTE2" in HD, "Temporary" (RTE2) and "Unknown 454".

    There is no EPG on "Unknown 454", I've not checked the birate or the resolution. I'm receiving it from Mount Leinster.
    I take it it's on mux 2. How long has it been on? I'm not picking up anything extra from Maghera.


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    #1131
    warlikedave
    Registered Users Posts: 1,529 ✭✭✭warlikedave


    Elmo wrote: »
    Well you know what I mean, technical regulation from ComReg, Content Regulation from BAI.

    Am writing an article up on saorview and co-channel interference at the mo so i rang comreg and got a call back from one of thier broadcasting devisions...here is what i learned:

    - Rte has full decision on saorview certification and will be contracting it out
    - rtenl aquired a licience for 4 muxes in 2007 with channel allocations
    - rtenl was the one who decided the channels to use and comreg signed off on it
    - communication between other countries in terms of channels used varies
    - bai handles most international agreements including the existing MOU

    - mount leinster
    -- rtenl had invested its time and particular equipment specifically for use of ch 39 +45
    -- channels will probably remain as they are
    -- power to mt leinster may be increased to counter co-channel interferrence
    -- power to transmitter is in rtenls domain of decision
    -- mt leinster will be broadcasting with more power than the welsh transmitter


    --- Please note...this info is from comreg and since there is overlaps with the BAI and RTENL some details need to be comfirmed and i am awaiting a responce from both the BAI + RTENL

    I still voiced concerns in regards to how successful a power boost to the mt leinster would counter preslie especially in good weather conditions and all that was countered with was the possibility of a boost to transmittion power

    Not much new info there really :(

    By the way did a scan for mount leinster and no unknown channel 454 @ 9:25pm

    Your thoughts?


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    #1132
    warlikedave
    Registered Users Posts: 1,529 ✭✭✭warlikedave


    glimmerman123 wrote: »
    I take it it's on mux 2. How long has it been on? I'm not picking up anything extra from Maghera.

    I do know that they were testing ch 39 recently on mount leinster....maybe we shall see the first of the new channels soon enough :D


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    #1133
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    jobyrne30 wrote: »
    There seems to be an additional RTE2 running at the moment, it's called "Unknown 454". So there is "RTE2" in HD, "Temporary" (RTE2) and "Unknown 454".

    There is no EPG on "Unknown 454", I've not checked the birate or the resolution. I'm receiving it from Mount Leinster.
    glimmerman123 wrote: »
    I take it it's on mux 2. How long has it been on? I'm not picking up anything extra from Maghera.

    Vince also posted in another thread that he had "another channel today carrying rte 2 its called service 1108" from Mullaghanish.

    Could it be the second mux testing with different content from Mux 1 inline with the Ministerial decision on the approval of new channels at the end of Feb? Mux 2 must be operational by Sept in any case with the RTÉ 2 HD and RTÉjr/RTÉ Plus channels.

    Intermittent second mux testing to date has carried a duplicate of Mux 1 content.


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    #1134
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    warlikedave wrote: »
    - mount leinster
    -- rtenl had invested its time and particular equipment specifically for use of ch 39 +45
    -- channels will probably remain as they are
    -- power to mt leinster may be increased to counter co-channel interferrence
    -- power to transmitter is in rtenls domain of decision
    -- mt leinster will be broadcasting with more power than the welsh transmitter

    Umm, Ofcom won't be happy with that, it would surely make things worse in Wales.


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    #1135
    warlikedave
    Registered Users Posts: 1,529 ✭✭✭warlikedave


    Karsini wrote: »
    Umm, Ofcom won't be happy with that, it would surely make things worse in Wales.

    My thoughts exactly but ive to wait to hear back from rtenl to verify this


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    #1136
    Souriau
    Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Souriau


    jobyrne30 wrote: »
    There seems to be an additional RTE2 running at the moment, it's called "Unknown 454". So there is "RTE2" in HD, "Temporary" (RTE2) and "Unknown 454".

    There is no EPG on "Unknown 454", I've not checked the birate or the resolution. I'm receiving it from Mount Leinster.

    I scanned and got this info from Carin Hill
    I am receiving 3 RTE 2 channels, 1 HD and 2 SD

    Network Name: RTENL
    Network ID: 12801 (0x3201)
    Transport Stream ID: 1001 (0x03e9)
    Original Network ID: 8564 (0x2174) Version: 3
    Descriptor: Network Name Descriptor
    DVB-T Frequency 198.500 MHz
    Bandwidth: 8 MHz Constellation: 64-QAM
    Hierarchy: non-hierarchical, native interleaver Guard Interval 1/32
    Code Rate: 2/3
    Current Network: True
    Descriptor: Service List Descriptor
    Service: 1101 (RTÉ One) digital television service
    Service: 1102 (RTÉ Two) digital television service
    Service: 1103 (TV3) digital television service
    Service: 1104 (TG4) digital television service
    Service: 1105 (RTÉ News Now) digital television service
    Service: 1106 (3e) digital television service
    Service: 1107 (Temporary ) digital television service
    Service: 1108 () digital television service
    Service: 1226 (RTÉ Radio 1) digital radio sound service
    Service: 1227 (RTÉ 2FM) digital radio sound service
    Service: 1228 (RTÉ Lyric FM) digital radio sound service
    Service: 1229 (RTÉ Raidió na Gaeltachta) digital radio sound service
    Service: 1230 (RTÉ Radio 1 Extra) digital radio sound service
    Service: 1231 (RTÉ Pulse) digital radio sound service
    Service: 1232 (RTÉ 2XM) digital radio sound service
    Service: 1233 (RTÉ Choice) digital radio sound service
    Service: 1234 (RTÉ Gold) digital radio sound service
    Service: 1235 (RTÉ Chill / RTÉ Junior) digital radio sound service
    Descriptor: Frequency List Descriptor
    Terrestrial: 177.500 MHz
    Terrestrial: 184.500 MHz
    Terrestrial: 191.500 MHz
    Terrestrial: 198.500 MHz
    Terrestrial: 205.500 MHz
    Terrestrial: 212.500 MHz
    Terrestrial: 219.500 MHz
    Terrestrial: 474.000 MHz
    Terrestrial: 482.000 MHz
    Terrestrial: 514.000 MHz
    Terrestrial: 530.000 MHz
    Terrestrial: 546.000 MHz
    Terrestrial: 626.000 MHz
    Terrestrial: 666.000 MHz
    Terrestrial: 674.000 MHz
    Terrestrial: 682.000 MHz
    Terrestrial: 690.000 MHz
    Terrestrial: 706.000 MHz
    Terrestrial: 722.000 MHz
    Terrestrial: 730.000 MHz
    Terrestrial: 738.000 MHz
    Terrestrial: 746.000 MHz
    Descriptor: Private Data Specifier Descriptor
    Private Data Specifier: Unknown
    Descriptor: User Private Descriptor: 0x83
    Logical channel 1 = MPEG service 1101 (RTÉ One)
    Logical channel 2 = MPEG service 1102 (RTÉ Two)
    Logical channel 3 = MPEG service 1103 (TV3)
    Logical channel 4 = MPEG service 1104 (TG4)
    Logical channel 5 = MPEG service 1105 (RTÉ News Now)
    Logical channel 6 = MPEG service 1106 (3e)
    Logical channel 7 = MPEG service 1107 (Temporary )
    Logical channel 200 = MPEG service 1226 (RTÉ Radio 1)
    Logical channel 202 = MPEG service 1227 (RTÉ 2FM)
    Logical channel 203 = MPEG service 1228 (RTÉ Lyric FM)
    Logical channel 204 = MPEG service 1229 (RTÉ Raidió na Gaeltachta)
    Logical channel 201 = MPEG service 1230 (RTÉ Radio 1 Extra)
    Logical channel 205 = MPEG service 1231 (RTÉ Pulse)
    Logical channel 206 = MPEG service 1232 (RTÉ 2XM)
    Logical channel 207 = MPEG service 1233 (RTÉ Choice)
    Logical channel 208 = MPEG service 1234 (RTÉ Gold)
    Logical channel 209 = MPEG service 1235 (RTÉ Chill / RTÉ Junior)


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    #1137
    Souriau
    Registered Users Posts: 788 ✭✭✭Souriau


    It is the same just no teletext on channel 8

    RTE2 Channel 7
    Program Number: 7/1107
    PCR on PID 8190 (0x1ffe)
    PMT Version: 8
    Service name: Temporary
    Logical channel number: 7

    Stream Type: 0x1b H.264 Video
    Elementary Stream PID 1107 (0x0453)

    Stream Type: 0x04 MPEG-2 Audio
    Elementary Stream PID 1207 (0x04b7)

    Stream Type: 0x06 Teletext/VBI
    Elementary Stream PID 1301 (0x0515)

    RTE2 Channel 8
    Program Number: 1108
    PCR on PID 8190 (0x1ffe)
    PMT Version: 2
    Service name:

    Stream Type: 0x1b H.264 Video
    Elementary Stream PID 1107 (0x0453)

    Stream Type: 0x04 MPEG-2 Audio
    Elementary Stream PID 1207 (0x04b7)


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    #1138
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    RTE and Comreg appear to have a different script regarding Channel Allocations.

    It's very strange for Comreg to Claim it's all down to RTE. RTE has no authority to negotiate internationally or allocate Spectrum Licences. Only Comreg in Ireland is allowed to do that.
    It's like suggesting the Channel Is. / French Co-channel problems are caused by BBC rather than Ofcom and French regulator lack of attention to detail.

    RTE NL probably can suggest at the outset what channels would suit on an Irish National Plan, and may talk unofficially to others.

    But final responsibility for ALL International Co-ordination, avoiding co-channel and actually issuing authorisation for a channel is entirely Comregs responsibly and control. RTE NL can ONLY use mux channels from the "pool" issued by Comreg.


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    #1139
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,515 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    watty wrote: »
    RTE and Comreg appear to have a different script regarding Channel Allocations.

    It's very strange for Comreg to Claim it's all down to RTE. RTE has no authority to negotiate internationally or allocate Spectrum Licences. Only Comreg in Ireland is allowed to do that.
    It's like suggesting the Channel Is. / French Co-channel problems are caused by BBC rather than Ofcom and French regulator lack of attention to detail.

    RTE NL probably can suggest at the outset what channels would suit on an Irish National Plan, and may talk unofficially to others.

    But final responsibility for ALL International Co-ordination, avoiding co-channel and actually issuing authorisation for a channel is entirely Comregs responsibly and control. RTE NL can ONLY use mux channels from the "pool" issued by Comreg.

    Strange indeed. This was the Ministers reply to Leo Varadkar regarding Ch.39 at Mt Leinster last Oct
    Broadcasting Services

    478. Deputy Leo Varadkar asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources if there is any impediment to ComReg licensing RTE to use either channels 30, 34, or 39 for public service transmission of RTE from the Mount Leinster transmitter; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [37901/10]

    Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Eamon Ryan): The matter referred to by the Deputy relates to the assignment of spectrum, which is a matter for the Commission for Communications Regulation (ComReg). ComReg is the statutory body responsible for the management of spectrum in Ireland, including that used by TV services as referred to in the Deputy’s question, under the Communications Regulation Act 2002. ComReg is also responsible for issuing a licence to RTÉ in respect of television services transmitted by digital terrestrial means under the Broadcasting Act 2009.

    I have no direct role in the assignment of specific spectrum.

    http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate...ode=3924#N3924


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    #1140
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Watty is correct, the FINAL say is with Comreg who are the ultimate co-ordinating authority with Ofcom in the UK. It is possible for RTENL/Arqiva/BBC to sort the plan out but not to give full and final approval.

    It is entirely possible that the civil servants in the Dept of Comms DO NOT UNDERSTAND this :)


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    #1141
    watty
    Registered Users Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    yes, and if RTENL/Arquiva/BBC make a mistake, it's the responsibility of Comreg and Ofcom to spot it before agreement of frequencies.
    so i rang comreg and got a call back from one of thier broadcasting devisions...here is what i learned:

    - Rte has full decision on saorview certification and will be contracting it out
    - rtenl aquired a licience [From Comreg] for 4 muxes in 2007 with channel allocations
    - rtenl was the one who decided the channels to use and comreg signed off on it
    - communication between other countries in terms of channels used varies
    - bai handles most international agreements including the existing MOU

    The buck stops with Comreg. Not RTE NL or RTE.

    The items in Italics are misleading!
    Anyone can talk to anyone about channels & Frequencies. I have done it myself Internationally. Comreg makes 100% of the decisions for Ireland.

    The BAI ultimately ONLY handles licence to carry content for Transmissions originating in Ireland. BAI can licence content for Satellite uplinks in Ireland (but not the channels used). BAI can Issue TV station or Radio station or TV/Radio platform Licences, (Boxer, Newstalk etc) and Comreg licences the channel(s) to use. Comreg exclusively negotiates Spectrum and licences it in Ireland. BAI may wish to enlarge their empire, but in reality they have no International Authority. They can't do anything about any Foreign based Transmission or Content, even if it can be received in Ireland via Dish or Aerial.

    I doubt they can even Regulate the price of pay TV sold in Ireland or what it's content is if it's uplinked outside Ireland and Transmitted from outside Ireland.

    If you create a Satellite or Terrestrial Station with Transmitter outside Ireland and uplinked outside Ireland, then Comreg or BAI have no control at all. UK, or Spain or wherever you based will regulate you, even if your content is 100% beamed and sold in Ireland.
    I don't believe BAI has any authority to make MOU. The UK/Ireland MOU was between Irish and UK Governments. The Irish government can I suppose give BAI the authority to administer the content of any Transmissions in Ireland relating to MOU.

    The BAI has no authority to make or enforce International Agreements, or control content of Foreign Broadcasts.


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