Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

15 year old boy who had consensual sex with 14 year old girl faces 5 years in prison

  • 16-12-2009 8:38pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭dioltas


    He's challenging the law under which he is charged on the grounds of sexual discrimination. If he loses he faces five years in jail and I assume will be a sex offender.
    I think this is ridiculous, and I really hope he wins.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1216/statutory.html
    Challenge to underage sex law

    Wednesday, 16 December 2009 17:26
    An 18-year-old charged with having sex with a 14-year-old girl when he was 15 has begun a legal challenge to the legislation under which he is charged.
    He is accused of having sex with the girl in August 2006.

    The man says that the 2006 legislation that allows him to be prosecuted but states that a girl under 17 is not guilty of an offence is old fashioned gender-based discrimination for which the State has no justification.
    Advertisement

    He is charged under Section 3 of the Criminal Law Sexual Offences Act of 2006 and faces a maximum of five years in jail if he is convicted.
    Under Section 5 of the same act, a girl under 17 cannot be charged with an offence for engaging in sexual activity.
    The boy's lawyers told the court the legislation proceeded on the basis that the boy was 'the guilty party' and the girl was a 'comely maiden' whose virtue must be protected.
    Senior Counsel Gerard Hogan said that if he was convicted he would face a conviction for a sexual offence with all the ignominy and distress associated with that.
    He said he faced the prospect of having his life destroyed.
    Mr Hogan said five years in prison and a conviction for a sexual offence for a boy of 15 who engaged in consensual sexual activity was a 'savage penalty'.
    Mr Hogan said the State's justification for the provision in the legislation was that an underage girl would be deterred from engaging in sexual activity by the prospect of becoming pregnant.
    The Oireachtas had to 'equalise' the positions of a boy and a girl by providing an equal deterrent to a boy in the form of making the sexual activity a criminal offence, he said.
    He added that no sane person would encourage a 14 and a 15-year-old to engage in sexual activity but he said this was nakedly gender based legislation.
    He said no one would suggest that pregnancy in a young girl was something that could be countenanced but he said there was no comparison between pregnancy and the prosecution for a sexual offence, which would destroy a young life.
    The legislation was enacted in the aftermath of the Supreme Court ruling that found that the laws governing statutory rape were unconstitutional because they did not allow for a defence of reasonable mistake about a girl's age.
    Mr Hogan said this was not the kind of case that came up after the Supreme Court ruling where for example a 40-year-old man took advantage of a 12-year-old girl.
    He said this was two youngsters engaging in sexual activity and he said this was the reality of the conduct of a significant minority of young people 'like it or not'.
    Professor Sheila Green, Director of the Children's Research Centre at Trinity College Dublin gave evidence that an increasing number of young people were having sex before the age of consent.
    It was almost normative behaviour she said and studies had found that in most cases it was consensual.
    Thousands of young people were having sex under the age of consent she said. Thousands of boys were therefore liable to prosecution.
    She said we may not like the idea of very young teenagers indulging in sexual activity but it is part of the everyday reality she said.
    If every case like this one came to light she said, the courts would be full of cases like this because it is such a frequent activity.
    The case is likely to continue until Friday.

    Sorry if posted already, searched and had a look around and found nothing...


«134567

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭ciano1


    At least he's getting laid . . . :(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,940 ✭✭✭4leto


    How many here would have broke that law I know I did, in my teen years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,051 ✭✭✭winston82


    great thread op. some really interseting points you've made. keep up the good work


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,448 ✭✭✭✭Cupcake_Crisis


    That is ridiculous! Two people broke the law in that situation, why should only 1 be punished??


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,962 ✭✭✭jumpguy


    Heard this on the news. It's extremely unfair and it's shameful our law could allow this to happen. The age of consent law is archaic. It should be dependent on the circumstance. TBH, the article is ambiguous in the nature the boy had sex to the girl, but it was consensual. It'd be the highest form of cruelty to convict the boy, and give him a horrible criminal record, and hence effectively destroy his life.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,035 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Well, I know this will never happen, but if youre a minor and if you find yourself to be "Guilty" of the same offence as this Lad:

    Come forth.

    If truly there are Thousands of offending Teens, if they all came forward at once, the Courts would have two choices: Ammend the Law, or Imprison Thousands of Teens.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭dioltas


    winston82 wrote: »
    great thread op. some really interseting points you've made. keep up the good work

    My sarcasm detector is going off the scale. I just wanted to let people know if they didn't already tbh because I think it's a terrible injustice.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    4leto wrote: »
    How many here would have broke that law I know I did, in my teen years.

    Paedophile! Rapist! Sex offender!

    (according to Irish law)
    Overheal wrote: »
    Thousands of Teens.

    And brand them as "sex offenders" for life.

    Presumably theyd have to go on that register thing as well


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭spitfireIRL


    it's a stupid law anyway if they both consented there should be no problem!! PC gone mad


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,378 ✭✭✭Borneo Fnctn


    I hope he doesn't get convicted of this. It just wouldn't be right. How did it end up in the court anyway? Were they caught at it or what? Maybe it was he girl's parents.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,255 ✭✭✭✭The_Minister


    it's a stupid law anyway if they both consented there should be no problem!! PC gone mad

    So two twelve year olds who decide to play doctors and nurses should be ok?

    I don't think it is a criminal matter if two people of the same age have sex, but there is such a thing as too young.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,183 ✭✭✭dioltas


    4leto wrote: »
    How many here would have broke that law I know I did, in my teen years.

    Yeah, exactly. The whole situation would be laughable if it weren't for the consequences for this lad. A nation of rapists I tell ya!
    Who's to say the lads aren't the ones being taken advantage of ffs? Maybe they should just prevent any physical contact between boys and girls until the age of 17.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,547 ✭✭✭Agricola


    Its young feckers like this that have the country the way it is.......... Scandalous!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭spitfireIRL


    So two twelve year olds who decide to play doctors and nurses should be ok?

    I don't think it is a criminal matter if two people of the same age have sex, but there is such a thing as too young.

    two people who know what they're doing with their bodies wouldn't be playing doctor's and nurses. Yes, twelve is definitely too young, but i'm not too sure 14/15 is.

    Sure there was a poll on here recently, check the figures . It's not exactly a small amount of people who had underage sex


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,962 ✭✭✭jumpguy


    So two twelve year olds who decide to play doctors and nurses should be ok?

    I don't think it is a criminal matter if two people of the same age have sex, but there is such a thing as too young.
    This would be where early sex education would be important...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,035 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Mike 1972 wrote: »
    And brand them as "sex offenders" for life.

    Presumably theyd have to go on that register thing as well
    But thats my point. The legislature has a conscience, and they wouldnt subject thousands of teens to the register. Or if they did it would devalue the register and introduce literally thousands of red herrings into the system.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,158 ✭✭✭donmeister


    Behead both of them I say!

    Oops have my Muslim thinking cap on


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 28,128 ✭✭✭✭Mossy Monk


    It would be crazy if he gets done for this. It takes two to tango and this law is ridiculously sexist.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 13,249 ✭✭✭✭Kinetic^


    Same almost happened to someone I know. She got pregnant, her parents flipped and contacted the solicitor. Only for her being older then him he would've got prosecuted. So in light of this......remember kids, always go for the older lady!


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,931 ✭✭✭Prof.Badass


    I am raging at this :mad:.

    What i find most shocking is that this law isn't some relic from the 70's, it's from 2006 :eek:.

    I really thought this sort of sexism had been dropped by that stage (and that any sexism in the law was from older laws).

    In a fair society there is no room in the law for distinctions based on gender.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭FarmerGreen


    Confession under duress.
    It wont stand up in court.
    Unless they videoed it, deny the offence.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    The legislature has a conscience, and they wouldnt subject thousands of teens to the register.

    But is quite happy to have some of them locked up ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    He is charged under Section 3 of the Criminal Law Sexual Offences Act of 2006 and faces a maximum of five years in jail if he is convicted.
    Under Section 5 of the same act, a girl under 17 cannot be charged with an offence for engaging in sexual activity.

    Both broke the law but only one is getting charged. :confused:
    That surely should be challenged!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 412 ✭✭Vanhalla


    I wish i was shaggin at 15!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,035 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    But is quite happy to have some of them locked up ?
    good point :/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,190 ✭✭✭✭IvySlayer


    We need everyone to sign a petition and hand it into the Dail and change the damn law.

    Put it down to 14. And then the hard part comes in, where to stop, I dunno, only allowed to sleep with someone who is not over 2 years older than you if you are between 14 - 16?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Pacing Mule


    Overheal wrote: »
    Well, I know this will never happen, but if youre a minor and if you find yourself to be "Guilty" of the same offence as this Lad:

    Come forth.

    If truly there are Thousands of offending Teens, if they all came forward at once, the Courts would have two choices: Ammend the Law, or Imprison Thousands of Teens.

    Surely Cum first and then hand yourself in !


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 909 ✭✭✭mobius42


    Actually, how did this get to court? Loads of teenagers have sex under the age of consent but they don't get end up in court. How did this guy get charged?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭FarmerGreen


    Silly old farts should use a bit of 'judgement'.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    mobius42 wrote: »
    Actually, how did this get to court? Loads of teenagers have sex under the age of consent but they don't get end up in court. How did this guy get charged?

    He got caught


  • Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 23,228 Mod ✭✭✭✭GLaDOS


    There should be a 2 year gap either side of the males(because they're the one deemed guilty :rolleyes:) age in which statutory rape doesn't count. I believe many other countries have this in place?
    I don't think it is a criminal matter if two people of the same age have sex, but there is such a thing as too young.
    Ruining someones life certainly isnt the answer anyway

    Cake, and grief counseling, will be available at the conclusion of the test



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 170 ✭✭TobyZiegler


    It must have been her parents who reported him. Assuming it was its one thing to be angry at him for having sex with their daughter but to put him through this and potentially ruin his life was awful.

    And I agree its hard to fathom what legislators were thinking when making this law.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,253 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Overheal wrote: »
    Well, I know this will never happen, but if youre a minor and if you find yourself to be "Guilty" of the same offence as this Lad:

    Come forth.

    If truly there are Thousands of offending Teens, if they all came forward at once, the Courts would have two choices: Ammend the Law, or Imprison Thousands of Teens.

    I vote imprison thousands of teens. If anything, it'll stop them playing their **** music on the bus.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,035 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Surely Cum first and then hand yourself in !
    I was waiting for someone to step on that trap card. Congratulations. Youve helped prove Boards is read by children.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭FarmerGreen


    They were just trying out the wedding tackle.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,608 ✭✭✭✭sceptre


    And I agree its hard to fathom what legislators were thinking when making this law.

    Gerard Hogan SC argued today in court that the point of view of the legislators when passing the 2006 Act (yes folks, 2006, not 1588) was that the threat of pregnancy was the punishment for girls.

    Oddly enough he also argued that this was nuts.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,713 ✭✭✭✭Novella


    I think this is a bit mad!

    When I was fourteen (NEARLY fifteen!) I had sex with a guy who was sixteen. It was both of our first times and yeah, sure, we were probably too young or whatever but we both knew what we were doing and it definitely isn't something he should be worried about "getting caught" and jailed for! I think it's ridiculous.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,059 ✭✭✭Pacing Mule


    Overheal wrote: »
    I was waiting for someone to step on that trap card. Congratulations. Youve helped prove Boards is read by children.

    Yes and here I am in the most relevant thread for children in AH - why are you here :)


  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,945 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    Overheal wrote: »
    I was waiting for someone to step on that trap card. Congratulations. Youve helped prove Boards is read by children.

    Watch it young fella. Ease up on the personal stuff.



    I reckon the reason why the bloke is punished is that he needs a physical response in order to have sex whereas the girl... well.... doesn't. It's not necessarily something I agree with but I have seen this argument before and that's usually the point that's made about cases like this.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    the point of view of the legislators when passing the 2006 Act (yes folks, 2006, not 1588) was that the threat of pregnancy was the punishment for girls.
    Havent they heard of contraception ?

    According to http://www.iglyo.com/content/article.php?id=QA000143
    If a 16yo girl performs oral sex on a 16yo boy, they are both guilty of a serious offence. If the boy performs oral sex on the girl, then neither of them is guilty of anything.

    Which means Gay 16 yo's cant have oral sex but Lesbian 16yo's apparently can

    and from the same site
    Sources said that in addition to public submissions, a further factor weighing the committee in favour of 17 was the need for a common age of consent North and South. In Northern Ireland, the age of consent currently stands at 17. It is understood that Fine Gael, which has persistently argued that 17 should be the age of consent for boys and girls, pointed out the need for a common age of consent with Northern Ireland at last Thursday's meeting.
    Not that the age of consent in another country is actually in any way relevent but in Northern Ireland it has since been reduced to 16 .


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,572 ✭✭✭Canard


    She is certainly a comely maiden. ;)

    There's a lot worse things to be caught like, rape? Its a bit of a waste of time if they both consented, and if they're not after everyone who does it, which is a lot of people.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,452 ✭✭✭Time Magazine


    sceptre wrote: »
    Gerard Hogan SC argued today in court that the point of view of the legislators when passing the 2006 Act (yes folks, 2006, not 1588) was that the threat of pregnancy was the punishment for girls.
    Nerd question: isn't the intent of the legislature (mostly witnessed through the Dáil record) to be ignored for the purposes of statutory interpretation in Ireland?
    Oddly enough he also argued that this was nuts.
    Was he prosecution? If so, why argue it's nuts? Ted, what's going on?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭FarmerGreen


    I reckon the reason why the bloke is punished is that he needs a physical response in order to have sex whereas the girl... well.... doesn't. It's not necessarily something I agree with but I have seen this argument before and that's usually the point that's made about cases like this.

    For me at least, I need a look in the eye and permisssion to proceed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,510 ✭✭✭Hazys


    This is even sadder:
    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=wilson

    A 17yr old serving a 10 year sentence for having consensual oral sex not intercourse with a 15yr old. "because of an archaic Georgia law, it was a misdemeanor for teenagers less than three years apart to have sexual intercourse, but a felony for the same kids to have oral sex. "

    The law was changed because of this case...
    "Afterward, the state legislature changed the law to include an oral sex clause, but that doesn't help Wilson. In yet another baffling twist, the law was written to not apply to cases retroactively"
    but he still remains in prison because it was the law at the time, ridiculous.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 66 ✭✭julien05


    fook that i was 19 when i got offered a chance to loose my virginity(she was 15, i only physically looked 16) and i had to refuse because it was against the law.

    hang the bastard he broke the law:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Ebbs


    I always fail to see how consentual sex can be punished, regardless of the age (of course their is a limit). With social maturity being changed by a number of factors that influenced a persons development, it is hard to blanket all "kids" the same.

    I would love to see the statistics of cases where roles were reversed and the girl was the older party.

    File:Judge_Snyder.jpg

    Released on the account, boys will be boys :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 85,035 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I reckon the reason why the bloke is punished is that he needs a physical response in order to have sex whereas the girl... well.... doesn't. It's not necessarily something I agree with but I have seen this argument before and that's usually the point that's made about cases like this.
    And yet, that argument fails to defend female child molesters. Nor should it. There have been enough accounts of a victim's sexual arousal during rape to maintain that its not a purely voluntary action Male or Female. When a woman wants to rape a pubescent young boy, she can.

    I also dont respect the Pregnancy clause. Theyre both Parents. As far as the Labour and the 9 months ago, Im sorry ladies, thats an Act of God/Evolution/Circumstance. We dont cripple Male athletes so they compete directly against women, either. Equivocating Pregnancy to 5 years of Incarceration is misguided and absurd.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,410 ✭✭✭sparkling sea


    The Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Act 2006 is leading to the
    criminalisation of young men because the DPP on behalf of the state meaning us, is acting outside the spirit of the legislation and the intended purpose of it.

    In a climate were worries of corruption in the government are rampant, will
    we now have to call for an independent enquiry in to the actions of the
    DPP - is this even possible.

    How and why are these cases getting to court, these are not private
    prosecutions, families or anyone else should not be able to influence the
    DPP's decision to prosecute cases but yet this appears to be happening,
    who's interests are these cases really serving.

    Tis shocking


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭FarmerGreen


    Jeeeesus.
    Did they fancy each other and have fun.
    Was it some kind of bullying?
    Did he rape her?
    Come on its not that technical, its a part of growing up.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 633 ✭✭✭Warfi


    Vanhalla wrote: »
    I wish i was shaggin at 15!
    :D

    I wish I was shaggin' 15, full stop :(.

    Fair dues to him for standing up to the law, it's only when somebody stands up to unfair laws that change comes about


  • Advertisement
Advertisement