Should Irish be an optional subject not a cumpulsory one

Lady Chuckles · 28-02-2012 11:55am

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

No one wants it to die. We just don't want it mandatory in school that's all. Though if a language isn't strong enough to survive on it's own merit then it should die rather then be kept alive by huge amounts of public funds.

Of course you don't want it to die, but if it's optional and no one has the interest in learning it, I made the conclusion that, at some point, it could very well disappear

It's only a speculation of course

Lady Chuckles · 28-02-2012 11:57am

... On the other hand, perhaps if it was optional people would be happy choosing to learn Irish

swimming in a sea · 28-02-2012 12:04pm

Lady Chuckles wrote: »

Of course you don't want it to die, but if it's optional and no one has the interest in learning it, I made the conclusion that, at some point, it could very well disappear

It's only a speculation of course

God, I'd love to see it die, 2 hours a day for 8 years in primary school, what a waste. At least I gave it up in secondary school so they did not ruin that for me.

flanders1979 · 28-02-2012 12:56pm

I watched a programme about the Welsh last night with Rob Brydon and there were parts of it about the language. It made me slightly embarrassed about my own ability to speak Irish. He was asked if he ever met a Frenchman who couldn't speak French.

Krusader · 28-02-2012 1:05pm

Abolish it, it's not Anglo-American enough for us

Nothingbetter2d · 28-02-2012 1:12pm

based on keep irish complusory campaign'ers motto why dont we make ancient egyption compulsory so we can burn more tax money up forcing people to learn a useless language that the majority of people dont actually need or want.

Lady Chuckles · 28-02-2012 1:16pm

swimming in a sea wrote: »

God, I'd love to see it die, 2 hours a day for 8 years in primary school, what a waste. At least I gave it up in secondary school so they did not ruin that for me.

Wouldn't you be sad at all if it vanished?
I know I would.

deise go deo · 28-02-2012 1:31pm

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

based on keep irish complusory campaign'ers motto why dont we make ancient egyption compulsory so we can burn more tax money up forcing people to learn a useless language that the majority of people dont actually need or want.

You can't show a majority in favour of ancient egyption, I can show a majority in favour of Irish.

grindle · 28-02-2012 2:43pm

deise go deo wrote: »

You can't show a majority in favour of ancient egyption, I can show a majority in favour of Irish.

The majority of people are in favour of a lot of stupid things, what's your point?
Any fringe language has just as much "right" to exist as another, but you don't obsess about others due to your patriotic default.
Some of us recognise a birthplace for what it is, an accident of birth.
Why the obsession with forcing nationalist pride on people who want to be considered human-in-general as opposed to a certain sub-species, race or type?

Lord TSC · 28-02-2012 3:12pm

deise go deo wrote: »

You can't show a majority in favour of ancient egyption, I can show a majority in favour of Irish.

I'm sure if I ran surveys, I'd find alot of people in favour of the abolition of taxes, or that all shops should give things away for free, or a variety of other things which, while they sound great, would ruin the Irish economy.

I also point out, and we've had this out before, there is a difference between a majority of people saying they are in favour of Irish, and a majority of people actually bothering to use it after they've spent 14 years learning it. We can pull up survery after survey, but the reality is the majority of Irish people do not (and I'd argue could not) hold conversations in Irish on a regular basis.

Truman Burbank · 28-02-2012 3:26pm

lividduck wrote: »

Its a dead language which no place on the curriculum as a compulsory subject.
kids would be far better learing a modern european language.
I activley encourage my own kids to spend as little time as possible on it and devote their efforts to Spanish and French.

+1

Irish is compulsory to be taught to students, but it's not compulsory to sit the exam. A significant number do not turn up to sit it in The Leaving Cert.

ENTRY REQUIREMENTS *

DCU is English or Irish
DIT is English or Irish
TCD is English and any other language (including Irish)
UCD (i.e. NUI colleges) English & Irish. Half the courses in UCD now don't require a foreign language, i.e. 3rd language. Any student born abroad is exempt from requiring Irish as an NUI entry requirement (matriculation), and are allowed to present Irish as their 'foreign language'.

* Some individual college courses specifically require a foreign language. Very few require Irish.

28-02-2012 3:42pm

Irish should be optional in secondary school and the way that it's taught needs to be completely overhauled. In fact, the whole education system should be changed. The philosophy that we must speak it has done nothing but damage the language's reputation among us. Similarly, Irish should be disassociated completely from any kind of politics; Sinn Féin really aren't helping matters here and because young people are - understandably - so resentful of the aul' fellas who populate the political parties, this translates into resentment towards Irish.

I completely hated the language and couldn't string a basic sentence together up until 5th year of secondary school when I finally got an interesting teacher. A few months later (after not doing too well in ordinary level for the JC) I moved up to higher level and was able to speak it. It is true that Irish is not as useful as foreign languages, but it is very easy to learn and I find a lot of fun in trying to maintain a conversation as Gaeilge.

Keep in mind that I am a leftist who thinks nationalism and patriotism are idiotic. If I can have that kind of change of mind, it can happen to anyone.

Krusader · 28-02-2012 6:04pm

grindle wrote: »

The majority of people are in favour of a lot of stupid things, what's your point?
Any fringe language has just as much "right" to exist as another, but you don't obsess about others due to your patriotic default.
Some of us recognise a birthplace for what it is, an accident of birth.
Why the obsession with forcing nationalist pride on people who want to be considered human-in-general as opposed to a certain sub-species, race or type?

This accident of birth thing is ridiculous, your irish because the people/community and culture around you is distinct to this island and that environment influenced you as you grew up, being Irish is a frame of mind, seeing things differently than another culture/country would.

LordSutch · 28-02-2012 6:55pm

Crosáidí wrote: »

This accident of birth thing is ridiculous, your irish because the people/community and culture around you is distinct to this island and that environment influenced you as you grew up, being Irish is a frame of mind, seeing things differently than another culture/country would.

You mention Irish culture, but there are two distict cultures on this island, along with variations of both . . . . .

deise go deo · 28-02-2012 7:12pm

LordSutch wrote: »

You mention Irish culture, but there are two distict cultures on this island, along with variations of both . . . . .

There are indeed two traditions on the island, though it could be argued that the Irish Language belongs to both.

LordSutch · 28-02-2012 7:24pm

deise go deo wrote: »

There are indeed two traditions on the island, though it could be argued that the Irish Language belongs to both.

Would a Northern Unionist agree with you?

Krusader · 28-02-2012 7:40pm

LordSutch wrote: »

You mention Irish culture, but there are two distict cultures on this island, along with variations of both . . . . .

Yeah exactly, just because you were born on this island doesn't mean you're Irish, i'm sure culturely yourself you would have more affinity with Ulster-Scots/British culture than Irish/Gaelic culture,

Krusader · 28-02-2012 7:44pm

LordSutch wrote: »

Would a Northern Unionist agree with you?

They didn't seem to mind speaking it when trying to get catholics to convert in the 16th/17th century

LordSutch · 28-02-2012 7:49pm

I know nothing about the Irish language in the 16th/17th century, I'm talking about today!

deise go deo · 28-02-2012 7:54pm

LordSutch wrote: »

Would a Northern Unionist agree with you?

Some of them would, there have been quite a few former UVF members taking Irish classes as part of outreach programs in the north.

Ervine relative speaks up For Irish

Things like the Liofa 2015 campaign are helping to make the language more acceptable.

TeddyTedson · 28-02-2012 8:08pm

deise go deo wrote: »

Unfortunatly not, the state has been consistantly blocking and holding up the opening of new Gaelscoils for years, going so far as to stop recognising new ones compleatly in 2008. They have agreed to allow a few more since, but it is still a painfully slow, and even more dificult process these days.

Anything like bingo through Irish etc, is taken on by the school/students themselves, its not the state that does it. The state is still quite happy to do the bare minimum.

Nothing stoping you from learning, there are groups that meet up and chat informally and help each other learn all over the country, why not give one of them a go?

Ah I'm too old now. I have other things to do.

SeanW · 28-02-2012 8:20pm

flanders1979 wrote: »

I watched a programme about the Welsh last night with Rob Brydon and there were parts of it about the language. It made me slightly embarrassed about my own ability to speak Irish. He was asked if he ever met a Frenchman who couldn't speak French.

How many Americans speak American? How many Swiss people speak Swiss? Have you ever met a Belgian who speaks Belgian?

How about Latin speakers it Italy or Ancient Egyptian speakers in Egpyt?

The reason you will never meet a Frenchman who doesn't speak French is because French is the language of France, both on paper and in practice. Same with other modern languages like English in the U.S, French & German in Switzerland, French and Dutch in Belgium, Italian in Italy, Arabic in Egypt.

In Ireland, Irish is simply not the day-to-day language of the people. We are an English speaking country but with a loud & aggressive Gaeilgoir brigade, trying to pretend otherwise.

LordSutch · 28-02-2012 8:25pm

Crosáidí wrote: »

Yeah exactly, just because you were born on this island doesn't mean you're Irish, i'm sure culturely yourself you would have more affinity with Ulster-Scots/British culture than Irish/Gaelic culture,

Anglo Irish culture would be nearer the mark for me. The majority of Irish people would describe themselves as 'Irish' full stop. This majority do not speak Irish though, and they complain about the mandatory nature of the teaching of . . . .

grindle · 28-02-2012 8:40pm

Crosáidí wrote: »

This accident of birth thing is ridiculous, your irish because the people/community and culture around you is distinct to this island and that environment influenced you as you grew up, being Irish is a frame of mind, seeing things differently than another culture/country would.

Riiiight.
So, what makes me Irish is that I grew up surrounded by scum in Shannon with fück all to do except twiddle my dick, and was influenced by my environment into being generally fearful of a sizeable proportion of xenophobic, ashamed-when-sober, belligerent-when-drunk asshøles who think this is the greatest nation on Earth because we love d'craic and they were born here.
I'm proud of some Irish people's achievements, for them, but to trace that pride over a country so backwardly gimped by it's own repressive atmosphere is ridiculous.

Most people are not Samuel Beckett or James Joyce, most people are whinging curmudgeons who either revel in the sight of other people failing, or delight in the basest failures of humanity reaching the top of the celeb shït-pile because if that knob could do it, maybe they could too.
Ireland or Irishness, as a whole, are strange things to be proud of, without question.

Judgement Day · 28-02-2012 8:44pm

grindle wrote: »

Riiiight.
So, what makes me Irish is that I grew up surrounded by scum in Shannon with fück all to do except twiddle my dick, and was influenced by my environment into being generally fearful of a sizeable proportion of xenophobic, ashamed-when-sober, belligerent-when-drunk asshøles who think this is the greatest nation on Earth because we love d'craic and they were born here.
I'm proud of some Irish people's achievements, for them, but to trace that pride over a country so backwardly gimped by it's own repressive atmosphere is ridiculous.

Most people are not Samuel Beckett or James Joyce, most people are whinging curmudgeons who either revel in the sight of other people failing, or delight in the basest failures of humanity reaching the top of the celeb shït-pile because if that knob could do it, maybe they could too.
Ireland or Irishness, as a whole, are strange things to be proud of, without question.

Who rattled your cage?

deise go deo · 28-02-2012 8:49pm

grindle wrote: »

Riiiight.
So, what makes me Irish is that I grew up surrounded by scum in Shannon with fück all to do except twiddle my dick, and was influenced by my environment into being generally fearful of a sizeable proportion of xenophobic, ashamed-when-sober, belligerent-when-drunk asshøles who think this is the greatest nation on Earth because we love d'craic and they were born here.
I'm proud of some Irish people's achievements, for them, but to trace that pride over a country so backwardly gimped by it's own repressive atmosphere is ridiculous.

Most people are not Samuel Beckett or James Joyce, most people are whinging curmudgeons who either revel in the sight of other people failing, or delight in the basest failures of humanity reaching the top of the celeb shït-pile because if that knob could do it, maybe they could too.
Ireland or Irishness, as a whole, are strange things to be proud of, without question.

Sheesh, I hope you manage to do somthing with that chip on your shoulder before your arm falls off.

Sir Gallagher · 28-02-2012 9:22pm

I have to laugh at the whole "Irish was forced on me as a child so i resent it now boo hoo hoo" bunch. You'd swear it was like child abuse.

LordSutch · 28-02-2012 10:34pm

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

I have to laugh at the whole "Irish was forced on me as a child so i resent it now boo hoo hoo" bunch. You'd swear it was like child abuse.

Are you for real ?

Those of us who complain about the forced nature of Irish lessons are serious about the issue, we spent 1000s of hours for thirteen of forteen years of our school years being "taught" something that we didn't learn, and we never wanted to learn in the 1st place. What a waste of time & effort, for a negative gain! Is there any other country in the world where a minority language has been forced upon a non interested majority for so many decades with little or no results? Keep Irish in the curriculum of course, but make it a non mandatory subject/language.

deise go deo · 28-02-2012 11:02pm

LordSutch wrote: »

Are you for real ?

Those of us who complain about the forced nature of Irish lessons are serious about the issue,

Either thats not true or there are just very few of you, because there seems very little by way of a campaign to get Irish made optional.

I mean the facebook group, 'Make Irish optional' has 108 members, the one for keeping Irish compulsory has 10,000 members, there is a petition for making Irish optional that has only managed to get 40ish names, the one to keep Irish compulsory has nearly 19,000.

You could forgive me if I got the impression that very few people are actually serious about making Irish optional.

Sir Gallagher · 28-02-2012 11:40pm

LordSutch wrote: »

Are you for real ?

Those of us who complain about the forced nature of Irish lessons are serious about the issue, we spent 1000s of hours for thirteen of forteen years of our school years being "taught" something that we didn't learn, and we never wanted to learn in the 1st place. What a waste of time & effort, for a negative gain! Is there any other country in the world where a minority language has been forced upon a non interested majority for so many decades with little or no results? Keep Irish in the curriculum of course, but make it a non mandatory subject/language.

http://g.images.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/15357526.jpg

bb1234567 · 28-02-2012 11:51pm

No it should always be compulsory. I'd imagine very few would actually do Irish if it wasnt compulsory.The language is already on its last legs, making the subject non compulsory will completely kill it. Irish is a big part of our heritage and culture, it'd be a sad day in Ireland the day nobody in the whole country is able to speak our native language.

iBeast · 28-02-2012 11:53pm

The fact that we are even talking about the language not being compulsory shows how the west brit media have brainwashed the country.

lividduck · 28-02-2012 11:56pm

bb1234567 wrote: »

No it should always be compulsory. I'd imagine very few would actually do Irish if it wasnt compulsory.The language is already on its last legs, making the subject non compulsory will completely kill it. Irish is a big part of our heritage and culture, it'd be a sad day in Ireland the day nobody in the whole country is able to speak our native language.

Lots of things are a big part of our heritage, such as total and blind obedience to the Roman Catholic Church, should that also be compilsory? If Irish is to survive at all (and i see no reason that it should) it cannot be force, only by choice.

lividduck · 28-02-2012 11:57pm

iBeast wrote: »

The fact that we are even talking about the language not being compulsory shows how the west brit media have brainwashed the country.

Welcome back GuGobioch

LordSutch · 29-02-2012 12:04am

bb1234567 wrote: »

I'd imagine very few would actually do Irish if it wasnt compulsory.

Well that speaks volumes.

iBeast · 29-02-2012 12:06am

lividduck wrote: »

iBeast wrote: »

The fact that we are even talking about the language not being compulsory shows how the west brit media have brainwashed the country.

Welcome back GuGobioch

What?

Wibbs · 29-02-2012 12:29am

deise go deo wrote: »

You could forgive me if I got the impression that very few people are actually serious about making Irish optional.

More likely that the majority of people don't actually care that much. Most who would have a public opinion are out of school so it doesn't affect them directly and if they have kids they figure "oh yea it's cultural or something, is it not? It's part of growing up. Sure what can I do about it. I can say "close the door" as Gaelige, better say I speak it in the census. It's cultural you know". And their kids leave school, like the majority of kids before them going "thank fcuk I'm not trudging through that guff anymore". Not just about Irish either. Ditto for algebra and the like, because for the vast majority both will be about as much use as a chocolate fireguard in the rest of their daily lives.

Mostly the vast majority would IMHO be "meh" about the whole thing, they just get on with their lives and the vast majority do so as Bearla. It's such a non issue, that it's well.. a non issue. So it's hardly surprising there's no great vigorous push and that goes either way. A couple of hundred or even 10,000 is like adding a pint of water to the lake that is 4 million that care so much they can go through their entire lives and never hear a natural word of it spoken around them, nor ever need to understand it.

In any event, hobbyists riding in on their own particularly well fed hobby horses are always more ardent, nay oft times obsessive and usually vocal. It's the nature of the beast. Put it another way deise go deo how many threads have you started or posts you've commented upon are nothing to do with the Irish language? Remarkably few. I've seen similar among the born again religious faithful folks and that's cool. Whatever floats your boat. However it does tend to make one overly narrow in focus and subjective and defensive about anything outside that focus. For too long that's been the precise problem with tackling the support, even growth of the language. It can be exclusive and off putting when not meaning to be.

iBeast wrote:

The fact that we are even talking about the language not being compulsory shows how the west brit media have brainwashed the country.

Are you properly fluent in Irish? If you are, that's cool, but prove it for all by providing a passage as Gaelige, with a translation as Bearla as is the charter/tradition/good manners around here. IF you are and can, then you also must realise that you're in a pretty small minority that has a subjective emotional attachment and viewpoint that others may not have and making with the not so sly digs won't profit your case. If not then why not? Maybe put your cupla focal where your mouth is, rather than accuse the rest of us of west britism. Just a thought?

Namlub · 29-02-2012 12:49am

Sir Gallagher wrote: »

I have to laugh at the whole "Irish was forced on me as a child so i resent it now boo hoo hoo" bunch. You'd swear it was like child abuse

Well no, the only person making that fairly crude comparison is you in some futile attempt to dismiss what is a legitimate contributing factor to lack of interest in the language for a lot of people. But hey, hyperbole is always fun.

Sir Gallagher · 29-02-2012 1:15am

Namlub wrote: »

Well no, the only person making that fairly crude comparison is you in some futile attempt to dismiss what is a legitimate contributing factor to lack of interest in the language for a lot of people. But hey, hyperbole is always fun.

So people saying Irish was "forced on them" and "rammed down their throats" isn't hyperbole? Us Irish love our oppresion layed on thick.

iBeast · 29-02-2012 1:18am

Wibbs wrote: »

deise go deo wrote: »

You could forgive me if I got the impression that very few people are actually serious about making Irish optional.

More likely that the majority of people don't actually care that much. Most who would have a public opinion are out of school so it doesn't affect them directly and if they have kids they figure "oh yea it's cultural or something, is it not? It's part of growing up. Sure what can I do about it. I can say "close the door" as Gaelige, better say I speak it in the census. It's cultural you know". And their kids leave school, like the majority of kids before them going "thank fcuk I'm not trudging through that guff anymore". Not just about Irish either. Ditto for algebra and the like, because for the vast majority both will be about as much use as a chocolate fireguard in the rest of their daily lives.

Mostly the vast majority would IMHO be "meh" about the whole thing, they just get on with their lives and the vast majority do so as Bearla. It's such a non issue, that it's well.. a non issue. So it's hardly surprising there's no great vigorous push and that goes either way. A couple of hundred or even 10,000 is like adding a pint of water to the lake that is 4 million that care so much they can go through their entire lives and never hear a natural word of it spoken around them, nor ever need to understand it.

In any event, hobbyists riding in on their own particularly well fed hobby horses are always more ardent, nay oft times obsessive and usually vocal. It's the nature of the beast. Put it another way deise go deo how many threads have you started or posts you've commented upon are nothing to do with the Irish language? Remarkably few. I've seen similar among the born again religious faithful folks and that's cool. Whatever floats your boat. However it does tend to make one overly narrow in focus and subjective and defensive about anything outside that focus. For too long that's been the precise problem with tackling the support, even growth of the language. It can be exclusive and off putting when not meaning to be.

iBeast wrote:

The fact that we are even talking about the language not being compulsory shows how the west brit media have brainwashed the country.

Are you properly fluent in Irish? If you are, that's cool, but prove it for all by providing a passage as Gaelige, with a translation as Bearla as is the charter/tradition/good manners around here. IF you are and can, then you also must realise that you're in a pretty small minority that has a subjective emotional attachment and viewpoint that others may not have and making with the not so sly digs won't profit your case. If not then why not? Maybe put your cupla focal where your mouth is, rather than accuse the rest of us of west britism. Just a thought?

Im not fluent in Irish but im learning irish . I only accused some aspects of the media of being west brit

MysticalRain · 29-02-2012 1:38am

iBeast wrote: »

Im not fluent in Irish but im learning irish . I only accused some aspects of the media of being west brit

You could at least give us the Irish for "West Brit". That shouldn't be too hard.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 29-02-2012 4:03am

Crosáidí wrote: »

This accident of birth thing is ridiculous, your irish because the people/community and culture around you is distinct to this island and that environment influenced you as you grew up, being Irish is a frame of mind, seeing things differently than another culture/country would.

No it didn't. How do you know what influenced me?

bb1234567 wrote: »

No it should always be compulsory. I'd imagine very few would actually do Irish if it wasnt compulsory.The language is already on its last legs, making the subject non compulsory will completely kill it. Irish is a big part of our heritage and culture, it'd be a sad day in Ireland the day nobody in the whole country is able to speak our native language.

If very few poeple would do it, what does that tell you? Also, forcing those who would not actually do it, to do it will not resurrecut the languange. you can take the horse to water...

iBeast wrote: »

The fact that we are even talking about the language not being compulsory shows how the west brit media have brainwashed the country.

iBeast wrote: »

Im not fluent in Irish but im learning irish . I only accused some aspects of the media of being west brit

Define the phrase "west brit" for a start before you even being to attribute it to other sources.

ToddyDoody · 29-02-2012 4:48am

Irish should be recognised as one of those subjects which is impractical and the standards people dont really care about so that it can be more of a doss / fun with no homework, artistic and music elements (tv and dance?) ..da kids have enough on their plates with maths and sciences having to be so rigid and unforgiving.

grindle · 29-02-2012 2:30pm

deise go deo wrote: »

Sheesh, I hope you manage to do somthing with that chip on your shoulder before your arm falls off.

Do you even know what having a chip on your shoulder really means? My post was a reflection of my experiences, not a post meant to coax people into a fight, or goading anyone at all. Everyone dislikes the things they don't like, surely?
I'm not allowed?
If anyone has a chip on their shoulder, it's the blinkered defenders of education for culture's sake rather than for education's sake. A person is more important than a language or a culture every single time, yet the pro-Irish-by-force [generalisation forthcoming] seem convinced of the opposite.
I'm not calling for the death of a language, I'm calling for the choice of it. Pro-compulsary posters, on the other hand, are calling for a depressing waste of time and money. Typical of the backwards Irish outlook mentioned in my last post.
Nice attempt at an ad hominem though... If you keep practising you'll seem less obvious eventually.

Logical Fallacy · 29-02-2012 2:57pm

It's good to give kids something that is a little bit difficult and maybe a little bit pointless...gets them used to a lot of the way the world works.

People seem to be desperate to turn the school system into a hand holding session that breeds remedial dumb-asses that are afraid of a bit of hard work.

Iwasfrozen · 29-02-2012 3:02pm

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

It's good to give kids something that is a little bit difficult and maybe a little bit pointless...gets them used to a lot of the way the world works.

People seem to be desperate to turn the school system into a hand holding session that breeds remedial dumb-asses that are afraid of a bit of hard work.

Your name is apt. That's not a reason to keep irish cumpulsory. We might as well have our kids dig holes in the yard as something difficult and pointless. By the way I don't know how you think the world works but from my perspective if someone asks me to do something difficult there'd better be a bloody good reason for it.

Logical Fallacy · 29-02-2012 3:08pm

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Your name is apt.

Well done, no one has ever said that before, and i certainly haven't joked about how my name is a warning about my posts content.

Also, this is AH, so it's best to not take posts entirely seriously.

If you start a petition to replace Irish with hole digging i will sign it though.

Finally kids are not being "asked" to do something, they are being "told" to do something, yet kids being kids are they are ****ing lazy, and parents being parents they are willing to protect their kids right to be lazy, and their freedom to grow up to be both stupid and lazy.

These threads are always the same, people who were too stupid for school blaming the "difficult" and "pointless" subjects that were too complex for their feeble brains.

It's secondary school ****. It's easy.

Iwasfrozen · 29-02-2012 3:21pm

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Finally kids are not being "asked" to do something, they are being "told" to do something, yet kids being kids are they are ****ing lazy, and parents being parents they are willing to protect their kids right to be lazy, and their freedom to grow up to be both stupid and lazy.

These threads are always the same, people who were too stupid for school blaming the "difficult" and "pointless" subjects that were too complex for their feeble brains.

It's secondary school ****. It's easy.

Nice to see my little joke was original so. I really thought it wouldn't be.

You really can't be serious? We aren't talking about kids here, we're talking about teenagers in secondary school who although most of them may still be legally kids they're old enough to know what they have interest in and what they consider a waste of time. What business does the state have to mandate their education based on some dumb cultural illusion?

And yes as a matter of fact they are being "asked" to do irish not "told". Many students rightly refuse to do the subject and get excemptions on some pretty shaky ground because they see the language has no merit and their valuable time is better spent studying more important subjects. You know, the ones that will futher their careers?

There's no way you can "tell" any student to do anything. I for instance refused to do PE in 6th year. It earned me the ire of my principal but I got an extra hour and ten minutes studying during the day while the rest were running around a field.

It's not about the subject being difficult, it's about it being pointless.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 29-02-2012 4:26pm

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Well done, no one has ever said that before, and i certainly haven't joked about how my name is a warning about my posts content.

Also, this is AH, so it's best to not take posts entirely seriously.

If you start a petition to replace Irish with hole digging i will sign it though.

Finally kids are not being "asked" to do something, they are being "told" to do something, yet kids being kids are they are ****ing lazy, and parents being parents they are willing to protect their kids right to be lazy, and their freedom to grow up to be both stupid and lazy.

These threads are always the same, people who were too stupid for school blaming the "difficult" and "pointless" subjects that were too complex for their feeble brains.

It's secondary school ****. It's easy.

Again, how is saying that somehting is pointless and hard for the sake of being pointless and hard helping? How does this promote the language?

And what is the point of teaching kids how to debate and make decisions if we think the correct porcedue is to throw all that out the window and tell then what to do? Are you seriously suggesting that pointlessness should be a requirement of an education system? To me, this is the mark of beign just too damn lazy to accept or adjust to change.

Also, this thread, if you bother to read it, is full of intelligent people making cases for freedom of choice out of logical practical reasons, chief amongst them the idea that it will allow a student to tailor their Leaving Cert to their personal needs, or to enhance their knowledge or enjoyment of something. To dismiss them as purely blaming "pointless" and "difficult" subjects for the "failures" you see to perceive (and, specifically, what failures, may I ask, are you talking about?) is a massive amount of assumption and ignorance on your part.

KeithAFC · 29-02-2012 5:42pm

How does this promote the language?

Surely the language does not need promotion? If people want to learn it, they will. Times move on. People don't need to learn the Irish language or be forced to learn a language which is pretty pointless in the grand scheme of things.

Like I said, it seems to be a more cultural and political thing than it being about the language itself.

Should Irish be an optional subject not a cumpulsory one

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