Rumours of Sabbats for next year....

CiaranMT · 21-02-2012 4:15pm

wnolan1992 wrote: »

To be fair, not having an affiliation with a political party, or being ignorant of Irish politics is irrelevant. The SU President represents us, the students of UL, not a political party. At least it'd cut out the pointless posts like we've seen all year going "Yeah well Derek's a FFer, *rabble rabble rabble*"

The only point where cambridge should/would have a problem would be in his future plans for being Taoiseach and Grand World Ruler.

Point taken, but (assuming cambridge is even serious about running, which I doubt) someone running for a election for what is a not-insignificant position, without having at least some interest in or knowledge of politics isn't going to inspire the greatest of confidence in the electorate. In my view. :pac:

cambridge · 21-02-2012 4:28pm

CiaranMT wrote: »

Clearly. And yet you say you're running for a political position? :pac:

I'm not running for a 'political position'. I am running for the position of Students Union president, which I envsion as CEO of a small but demanding business. Nothing really to do with politics except the beauty pageant at the start.

CiaranMT wrote: »

For one, why would you be walking across the bridge at night to a shop? The SU shop only stays open until 9, Spar by the Castletroy Park til 10, and then you'd be talking about walking down to the Groody Roundabout to the 24h places, which would take almost half an hour to get to.

Even if you were out at night looking for a shop, Cappa was only ever open til 8pm.

Also, have you ever heard of a case of robbery/rape/assault on that bridge?
:

what are you saying? people should stay in doors after dark, if she wants to go shopping she is entitled to do so. it gets dark in the winter at 5pm.

wnolan1992 wrote: »

To be fair, not having an affiliation with a political party, or being ignorant of Irish politics is irrelevant. The SU President represents us, the students of UL, not a political party. At least it'd cut out the pointless posts like we've seen all year going "Yeah well Derek's a FFer, *rabble rabble rabble*"

The only point where cambridge should/would have a problem would be in his future plans for being Taoiseach and Grand World Ruler.

Fair play nolan, on the ball today.

CiaranMT wrote: »

Point taken, but (assuming cambridge is even serious about running, which I doubt) someone running for a election for what is a not-insignificant position, without having at least some interest in or knowledge of politics isn't going to inspire the greatest of confidence in the electorate. In my view. :pac:

I said i've no knowledge of irish politics. I don't really care who eamonn develera was, who bertie ahern is, why willie o'dea is or isn't a legend. nothing to do with the role. absolutely nothing.

CiaranMT · 21-02-2012 4:38pm

cambridge wrote: »

what are you saying? people should stay in doors after dark, if she wants to go shopping she is entitled to do so. it gets dark in the winter at 5pm.

That's not what I'm saying at all.

Horsemeat was pointing to the fact that you'd have to walk over the bridge at night to go to a shop now that Cappa is closed. I pointed out that you'd have to do this anyway as Cappa only stayed open til 8, so her point was moot.

It's dark at 5, sure, but 5 is still the evening time, summer or winter. There will still be plenty of people around going to and from lectures and offices.

I also am still interested to hear if anyone has any records of assaults/robberies etc that have occurred on the bridge? It's not something I've ever heard about.

cambridge · 21-02-2012 4:45pm

are you a member of the gardaí? do you expect people to send you twitter updates on their assaults?

CiaranMT · 21-02-2012 4:49pm

cambridge wrote: »

are you a member of the gardaí? do you expect people to send you twitter updates on their assaults?

No need to be so hyperbolic about it

If assaults/rapes/muggings occurred on the Living Bridge with some degree of regularity, it'd be known about. It would be flagged as an immediate concern for those living and working on the North campus.

To the best of my knowledge, there is no such immediate concern, nor have I ever heard of an incident on the bridge in my four years here.

cambridge · 21-02-2012 4:52pm

people tend not to tell the world about their assaults/rapes.

Ginge Young · 21-02-2012 4:53pm

If someone somehow manages to get the shop open again (can genuinely see it down the line, just not any time soon) I can guarantee you C&S will not be bailing it out again......

cambridge · 21-02-2012 4:54pm

how can you guarantee that ginger. are you expecting to be in charge of it forever? really ginger you're losing the run of yourself.

Ginge Young · 21-02-2012 4:54pm

cambridge wrote: »

people tend not to tell the world about their assaults/rapes.

Yeh but Universities tend to warn their students if incidents occur quite regularly.

Ginge Young · 21-02-2012 4:56pm

cambridge wrote: »

how can you guarantee that ginger. are you expecting to be in charge of it forever? really ginger you're losing the run of yourself.

I'm not in charge by any means, but at the moment C&S hold a lot of the cards as the Union is requesting more money from them, so I am sure we will be able to put something in place. There is no reason why we should be held responsible for the shops anyway.

And ginger?......wow

cambridge · 21-02-2012 4:58pm

sorry i didn't mean any offence there, typo just meant to say ginge. apologies if that hurt your feelings.

But i repeat, don't make guarantees on things you're not entitled to make guarantees on. You do what the c&s tell you to do, you don't tell c&s what to do.

if it's in the best interests of ALL the students to change how funding is delivered to C&S they HAVE to respect that.

CiaranMT · 21-02-2012 5:02pm

cambridge wrote: »

people tend not to tell the world about their assaults/rapes.

You'd be surprised. Believe it or not, various authorities do in fact publish figures on this kind of thing. If this was an issue, UL would be warning people about it.

Ginge Young · 21-02-2012 5:04pm

cambridge wrote: »

if it's in the best interests of ALL the students to change how funding is delivered to C&S they HAVE to respect that.

I am in fact in favour of the change in the amount we recieve. I do not want to see redundancies in the Union. My original point however is that C&S should not be held accountable for debts incurred by the shops or the Union. There needs to be something there to protect our funding.

I made no comment on how funding is delivered to C&S.

cambridge · 21-02-2012 5:06pm

The time for blame is over. The ULSU pls has massive debts, those debts will need to be repaid by the SU.

I don't see how they can do it without taking a bit our of the capitation fee year by year to pay it back. It's a ****ty situation but i don't think there is any huge profits to be made.

Ginge Young · 21-02-2012 5:25pm

cambridge wrote: »

The time for blame is over. The ULSU pls has massive debts, those debts will need to be repaid by the SU.

I don't see how they can do it without taking a bit our of the capitation fee year by year to pay it back. It's a ****ty situation but i don't think there is any huge profits to be made.

Don't disagree with you there surprisingly. I just mean in future we should not be held liable, the SU should be able to control itself better and shouldn't be making stupid business ventures or buying screens worth 25k euro that are not used anymore.

cambridge · 21-02-2012 5:37pm

I also completely agree with you. going forward the su should be breaking even and any loses should be its own to burden, they can't go pilfering the savings of C&S.

so putting bad management aside, why did the SU make loses?

were they underfunded and underbudgeted? or was it simply living beyond their means. has anyone had a good gander through the accounts that were released?

Bored Accountant · 21-02-2012 6:01pm

cambridge wrote: »

I also completely agree with you. going forward the su should be breaking even and any loses should be its own to burden, they can't go pilfering the savings of C&S.

so putting bad management aside, why did the SU make loses?

were they underfunded and underbudgeted? or was it simply living beyond their means. has anyone had a good gander through the accounts that were released?

My understanding is what happened is that when the spar shop was raking in the money, the students union had all that extra income, and now that the shop started making major losses with the opening of the new shops, the SU suddenly didn't have all the extra profits to be spending. and thats why there in such a financial loss all around.

I had a look at the accounts up until june 2010 which were the last full audited accounts out, and the SU made a profit of 17,000.

sceptre · 21-02-2012 6:36pm

I've deleted the five most recent posts, which added nothing.

Here's a reminder:

sceptre wrote: »

As per usual, towards election time, when some people tend to go all monkey-like and start throwing lumps of poo at walls, I encourage you all to make your posts worthwhile, with a point and preferably with reasonable politeness.

In the absence of those things, those of you who can't do that (happily there are people who can) are wasting electrons. Please don't waste electrons - while there are plenty of them, their quantity is finite. Post with a point or don't bother.

/mod

I don't have an issue with removing access to the board from anyone who can't follow a basic request. Honestly, folks, it's not that difficult, even if elections bring out the best in some and the, er, not-best, in others.:)

horsemeat · 21-02-2012 6:39pm

sceptre wrote: »

I've deleted the five most recent posts, which added nothing.

Here's a reminder:

I don't have an issue with removing access to the board from anyone who can't follow a basic request. Honestly, folks, it's not that difficult, even if elections bring out the best in some and the, er, not-best, in others.:)

Listen to The Sheriff lads.

He keeps the reins loose and the spurs spinning, but that doesn't mean he isn't afraid to use the whip when necessary to keep everyone on track....(Specifically in this case jester,ciaranmt,derek99er,cambridge,and missus wilson)

Cordially
Horsemeat

ninty9er · 21-02-2012 7:05pm

horsemeat wrote: »

those lot are nothing players, they wouldn't be able to step up to the big leagues I don't think. Canning doesn't have the charisma or charm for an election campaign.

I'd disagree. While Tony has challenged me and others in the past, we rarely disagree on desired outcome.

cambridge wrote: »

I'm not running for a 'political position'. I am running for the position of Students Union president, which I envsion as CEO of a small but demanding business. Nothing really to do with politics except the beauty pageant at the start.

Actually, The President is like an executive chairman, the General Manager fulfils the CEO role.

cambridge wrote: »

The time for blame is over. The ULSU pls has massive debts, those debts will need to be repaid by the SU.

I don't see how they can do it without taking a bit our of the capitation fee year by year to pay it back. It's a ****ty situation but i don't think there is any huge profits to be made.

The reallocation of capitation debate is nothing to do with debt. ULSU Services will have to finance it's debt. ULSU's only debt is one loan held for and services by ULSU Services and one lease for a Minibus. Let's get this clear. ULSU has no long term structural debt issues, it has current expenditure issues which have become critical due to the non-profitability of ULSU Services against budgeted profitability and dividend payment.

Ginge Young wrote: »

Don't disagree with you there surprisingly. I just mean in future we should not be held liable, the SU should be able to control itself better and shouldn't be making stupid business ventures or buying screens worth 25k euro that are not used anymore.

Actually, the screens cost the SU nothing, bar the grief of them not working and the sponsor wanting to know why. C&S actually backed the plan for these and they wouldn't be there unless C&S indicated they had a usage necessity for them as the other usage wasn't sufficient on its own.

cambridge · 21-02-2012 7:10pm

derek, i find it frankly semi-fraudulent for you to continue with your song about ULSU having zero debts and ULSU services having 300k debt. the ulsu services debt rests at the door of the ULSU. the debt needs to be managed and repaid under the supervision of the SU. Stop trying to trick people. Tell them the truth Derek. tell them the truth.

CiaranMT · 21-02-2012 7:19pm

cambridge wrote: »

derek, i find it frankly semi-fraudulent for you to continue with your song about ULSU having zero debts and ULSU services having 300k debt. the ulsu services debt rests at the door of the ULSU. the debt needs to be managed and repaid under the supervision of the SU. Stop trying to trick people. Tell them the truth Derek. tell them the truth.

He hasn't lied about it.

canned_ulkc · 21-02-2012 7:19pm

@mods,
As OP, I'd be in favour of this thread being split/closed or the obvious trolls being banned so that it can return to what the OP was about.

Tony

cambridge · 21-02-2012 7:23pm

you don't get to decide which threads get closed and which users get banned, TS or not.

What a ridiculous idea? Is this a sign of things to come. Delusions of grandeur, because you're SU president and you dont want other people doing things that they enjoy you think you can take the ball and go home.

I really really hope you don't run for education, you seem to be completely intellectually immature. I'll wait for your manifesto to come up so i can dissect it and really show you up for being the wrong man for the job.

OhMSGlive · 21-02-2012 7:24pm

canned_ulkc wrote: »

@mods,
As OP, I'd be in favour of this thread being split/closed or the obvious trolls being banned so that it can return to what the OP was about.

Tony

+1.

SarahBeep! · 21-02-2012 7:26pm

OhMSGlive wrote: »

canned_ulkc wrote: »

@mods,
As OP, I'd be in favour of this thread being split/closed or the obvious trolls being banned so that it can return to what the OP was about.

Tony

+1.

+1

(you should be paying attention, not on boards =P)

canned_ulkc · 21-02-2012 7:37pm

cambridge wrote: »

you don't get to decide which threads get closed and which users get banned, TS or not.

What a ridiculous idea? Is this a sign of things to come. Delusions of grandeur, because you're SU president and you dont want other people doing things that they enjoy you think you can take the ball and go home.

I really really hope you don't run for education, you seem to be completely intellectually immature. I'll wait for your manifesto to come up so i can dissect it and really show you up for being the wrong man for the job.

1. I said I'd be in favour - I didn't dictate anything. I didn't even make a request.
2. I have no DELUSIONS of grandeur - I'm awesome.
3. I'm not SU president.
4. I'm not encouraging anyone to play football, I think it's a ridiculous game.
5. The thread was started for one reason; I expressed that it has gone off topic. This has been the opinion of 2 mods so far. I am not so arrogant to assume that I know the parameters through which they decide to split/ban/close and so I expressed my support for using some mechanism available to them that might allow the topic to get back on track (one of those suggestions would allow you to continue in your current vein with a seperate open topic with a more appropriate topic)
6. I think I would be a brilliant candidate for Education Officer and if I were to run I would be as open and honest as I possibly could during any potential campaign. If I was shown then to be intellectually immature and the vote reflected that I think that would be democracy in action. If I were to get in though I'm sure it would either show that I actually do have charm (possibly even a bit of charisma) unless of course people vote less cynically than you have previously suggested and think that I might actually be good for the job.*
7. I'm afraid of being accused of being insulting about this (or of flaming) so I will attempt to phrase it as carefully as possible. All opinions are worth listening to. Sometimes they are opinions worth noting, sometimes they are opinions which aren't because they are baseless. I find that many of those expressed here are not worth noting.

*this is neither confirming or denying my intention to run.

colon · 21-02-2012 8:15pm

Soar high Cambridge, I can picture the usual su types with their sweaty brows and shaky hands, trembling at the taught of someone upsetting their cozy ways. There is a lot of people excited about your election.

freyners · 21-02-2012 8:20pm

these guys are getting super excited

wnolan1992 · 21-02-2012 8:33pm

And so the flamers become more annoying and destructive than the trollers.

The cycle on this forum continues....

Jester252 · 21-02-2012 8:39pm

I wonder what would be issues that the potential sabbats will use to try and pull in student who might not be as involved in the student union in a hope to get them to vote

freyners · 21-02-2012 8:42pm

Jester252 wrote: »

I wonder what would be issues that the potential sabbats will use to try and pull in student who might not be as involved in the student union in a hope to get them to vote

same hot topic as every year

whos giving out the best candy

harrythehat · 21-02-2012 8:42pm

So I skipped 17 pages of this thread but I don't seem to have missed much.

To get back on topic, who's running/ran/elected?

colon · 21-02-2012 8:56pm

Troll, flamer. No. Interested in a change from the usual type that win elections with sweeties and crowds of groupies rambling about screaming the next messiahs name..definitely

Ginge Young · 21-02-2012 9:11pm

ninty9er wrote: »

Actually, the screens cost the SU nothing, bar the grief of them not working and the sponsor wanting to know why. C&S actually backed the plan for these and they wouldn't be there unless C&S indicated they had a usage necessity for them as the other usage wasn't sufficient on its own.

What I referred to was the initial cost, and when C&S agreed to them, we were promised they would work and would be used. I distinctly remember last year that the attitude was "we didn't introduce them, so it's not our problem".

canned_ulkc · 21-02-2012 9:17pm

Last year (as the years before) I voted for the people who engaged with the issues, not those who had the best sweets. I'm more for savoury than sweet though but I don't think that explains it - More likely the fact that I, like most, feel that I have the intelligence to make my decision based on what matters.
As one of those who has campaigned in the past also, I am glad to say that I feel I represented the person well and honestly. I tried to engage people on the manefesto more than anything. Sweets were used as a bit of an icebreaker.
I'd prefer to respect the electorate and hope that those who do actually make the effort to vote have actually done so because of someone who has made the effort to engage and empathise with student issues (in a realistic way).

cambridge · 21-02-2012 9:19pm

I am warming to this Tony Canning chap, seems like a decent sort. I might make use of him as Education officer.

reunion · 22-02-2012 12:06pm

ninty9er wrote: »

ULSU has no long term structural debt issues, it has current expenditure issues which have become critical due to the non-profitability of ULSU Services

Just to clarify, ULSU has an operating loss of 54K a year. They pay ~380K currently in wages but only get ~280K fixed income.

2 sabbat positions were removed, saving 54K. This still leaves ~54K of ULSU shortfall a year. With a 3 year temporary reallocation of C&S/SU capitation split to fill this ~54K shortfall, nothing is guaranteeing ULSU having long-term fixed income greater OR equal to fixed expenditure.

That needs to be addressed and is a huge structral problem within the SU which can cause long term debt as the reallocation is temporary and not a permanent solution.

What happens in 3 years when the shop breaks even? or worse, make a loss again? IMHO wages either need to be cut, people redundant OR fixed income needs to increase permanently.

I am in favour of the temporary change of C&S/SU capitation split provided at the end of the 3 years, the fixed income of the SU is greater or equal to it's fixed expenditure.

deise go deo · 22-02-2012 12:58pm

reunion wrote: »

Just to clarify, ULSU has an operating loss of 54K a year. They pay ~380K currently in wages but only get ~280K fixed income.

2 sabbat positions were removed, saving 54K. This still leaves ~54K of ULSU shortfall a year. With a 3 year temporary reallocation of C&S/SU capitation split to fill this ~54K shortfall, nothing is guaranteeing ULSU having long-term fixed income greater OR equal to fixed expenditure.

That needs to be addressed and is a huge structral problem within the SU which can cause long term debt as the reallocation is temporary and not a permanent solution.

What happens in 3 years when the shop breaks even? or worse, make a loss again? IMHO wages either need to be cut, people redundant OR fixed income needs to increase permanently.

I am in favour of the temporary change of C&S/SU capitation split provided at the end of the 3 years, the fixed income of the SU is greater or equal to it's fixed expenditure.

The SU is looking for 60 odd thousand from C&S per year for three years to cover its shortfall until the shop finishes paying off its debt and can step in and start supporting the SU.

What I would like to know is why the SU is not taking steps to lessen the burden that C&S will have to shoulder by reducing its own fixed costs.

Based on the info sceptre provided in the ULSU EGM thread, if the three SU sabbats that will be elected were to have their pay cut, either by having their minimum wage +€1 cut back to just minimum wadge, or having their hours cut from 44 to 40, the saving would be around €6000.

C&S will have to meet the SU's needs, the alternative is too unpalatable, but I don't think it should allow the SU to place all of the burden on its shoulders when there are additional cuts that the SU could make.

cambridge · 22-02-2012 4:25pm

I heard mark o'donovan is running for an office this year, probably president.

Bored Accountant · 22-02-2012 4:31pm

cambridge wrote: »

I heard mark o'donovan is running for an office this year, probably president.

sure might have to keep you out of office!!!

horsemeat · 22-02-2012 5:58pm

I heard Jason Kennedy and Dar Roche are both sniffing around the Welfare position now that comms office has been eradicated.

Dont know anything about dara, but I think Jason would be more than up to the job.

@cambridge will you have any gimmicks in your campaign at all - lollies, condoms, milky bars?

jasonpkennedy · 22-02-2012 8:42pm

I'm not going for any position this year. Thanks for the ego boost though!

Always the campaigner, never the candidate!

highlydebased · 22-02-2012 8:43pm

horsemeat wrote: »

I heard Jason Kennedy and Dar Roche are both sniffing around the Welfare position now that comms office has been eradicated.

Dont know anything about dara, but I think Jason would be more than up to the job.

@cambridge will you have any gimmicks in your campaign at all - lollies, condoms, milky bars?

Darragh Roche is a third year so I don't know where you pulled that from

OhMSGlive · 22-02-2012 8:43pm

highlydebased wrote: »

Darragh Roche is a third year so I don't know where you pulled that from

Was just about to say that. IIRC he wanted to run for Comms Officer next year but won't now that it's been removed.

cambridge4prez · 22-02-2012 9:01pm

Hi guys,

Would just like to introduce myself as John Ryan, john cambridge's campaign manager for this term. I would like to apologise for John Cambridge's comments in the other thread, he gets a little carried away at times. If you have any genuine and sincere questions I can answer on his behalf. You can think of me as the King's hand, I can speak with his voice.

Thank you.

Choose Cambridge.

TheInquisitor · 22-02-2012 9:05pm

cambridge4prez wrote: »

Hi guys,

Would just like to introduce myself as John Ryan, john cambridge's campaign manager for this term. I would like to apologise for John Cambridge's comments in the other thread, he gets a little carried away at times. If you have any genuine and sincere questions I can answer on his behalf. You can think of me as the King's hand, I can speak with his voice.

Thank you.

Choose Cambridge.

Hi John C Ryan . You refer to Cambridge as "King". Is a dictator something your looking to become in the future?

Ginge Young · 22-02-2012 9:06pm

For the simple fact that there is no John Cambridge in UL meaning everything that has been posted up to now is bull, we can just end this lol

cambridge4prez · 22-02-2012 9:11pm

Hi again Ginge Young.

John told me that he opted out of the email agreement the university has when registering as a research student and therefore he has no XXXXXXX@studentmail.ul.ie or firstname.surname@ul.ie email address. If you make a request to student records they might tell you if John Cambridge is registered or not.

I thought searching for someone in an email database would be a slightly crude way to confirm or deny if they are a registered student/staff member but obviously not.

Regards,

JR, hand of the king

cambridge4prez · 22-02-2012 9:13pm

TheInquisitor wrote: »

Hi John C Ryan . You refer to Cambridge as "King". Is a dictator something your looking to become in the future?

You're?

I have no political aspirations. Cambridge has some fairly ambitious plans, e.g. involved in education at a national level. I am just trying to get my degree done. I have some experience in SU elections and JC asked me to be his manager. Couldn't say no. In future I'd rather keep discussions to JC rather than myself.

Rumours of Sabbats for next year....

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