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Dublin Bus workers threaten strike

  • 07-11-2007 11:57am
    #1
    paulm17781
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,858 ✭✭✭


    breakingnews.ie wrote:
    Dublin Bus workers based at the company's Harristown depot are reportedly threatening to begin strike action this weekend as part of a row over new routes.

    Two new routes are due to be introduced from the depot on Monday - the 4A from Ballymun to Stradbrook and the 128 from Baldoyle to Rathmines.

    Reports this morning say drivers are threatening to strike because of a dispute regarding where they will start and finish their shifts.

    The drivers reportedly want to start and finish at the Harristown garage near Dublin Airport, while Dublin Bus wants them to do so in the city centre.

    sigh...


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Comments

  • #2
    Dub13
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,254 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dub13


    This seems like a mess,whats the latest on it...?

    From The Independent
    By Breda Heffernan
    Wednesday November 07 2007

    A ROW over new routes is threatening to severely disrupt transport across Dublin city this coming weekend.

    Drivers at Harristown depot, near the airport, said they were likely to be on strike from Sunday as a result of what they said was Dublin Bus management's attempt to force in new scheduling arrangements.

    Two new routes are due to be introduced on Monday -- the 4A, which will run from Ballymun to Stradbrook, and the 128, which will run from Baldoyle to Rathmines through the city centre.

    Unions representing drivers want the start, break and finish to occur at the garage, while Dublin Bus wants some of the routes to start, break and finish in the city centre. Last month the Labour Court heard that the unions' refusal to accept this has meant that some new buses are being left unused and there is a surplus of 60 staff.

    The court ruled in the company's favour and pointed out that workers have already signed up to an agreement that allows services to start, break and finish at individual garages or in the city centre.

    However, a representative from the National Bus and Rail Union (NBRU) said yesterday that the dispute was not about breaks but the company's "incompetence" in managing the new depot.

    "Drivers will break wherever they are asked, all they expect is to start and finish their day's work in the same place and not 11km away. The new schedules will add hours to drivers' working week and will be a complete shambles for passengers. Buses will be waiting in the city for relief drivers who are trying to get there from a depot 11km away. It's a recipe for disaster and our members are saying no to it."

    The Harristown Drivers Association accused Dublin Bus of "acting like bully boys" and forcing a strike in the lead-up to Christmas.

    A spokesperson for Dublin Bus said the two new routes were urgently needed and that the schedules, extra drivers and new buses were all in place and ready to go from Monday.

    The €42m Harristown Garage near Dublin Airport opened in October 2004 and boasts a gym and restaurant.

    In its submission to the Labour Court, the unions said workers were led to believe that all starts, breaks and finishes would be at the garage -- a contention rejected by the company. The court found that there was no written agreement stating this.


  • #3
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,342 ✭✭✭markpb


    From a passenger point of view, I'd side with the drivers on this one - sitting about the city centre waiting for the next driver to turn up is a major pain in the ass.


  • #4
    Dub13
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,254 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dub13


    markpb wrote: »
    From a passenger point of view, I'd side with the drivers on this one - sitting about the city centre waiting for the next driver to turn up is a major pain in the ass.

    I agree and at the moment the drivers are coming from garages that are only a walk way,imagine trying to time it from 11km away.Thats asking for trouble.


  • #5
    paulm17781
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,858 ✭✭✭paulm17781


    Is the 4a a new route or are some 4s being changed to 4a?


  • #6
    dub_commuter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭dub_commuter


    I agree with the strike, I abloutely hate the unions, I can't stand them for what they do to this country, but in this case they are right. (Did I really just say that?)

    The reason a lot of Harristown routes are on the whole almost perfect punctuality wise are because of the shift swapping in the depots which enables them to control and fix things pretty easy, and if a bus gets delayed en route it allows them to send another out to recover it.

    By changing in the City Centre, it not only keeps passengers waiting, it also increases the chances of short term delays and cancellations, and also makes short terminations and turning buses early more likely, and it also increases the chances of buses being delayed en route to the start of the route. Interesting to hear this morning that Clontarf drivers are thinking about striking in support.


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  • #7
    John R
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,107 ✭✭✭John R


    paulm17781 wrote: »
    Is the 4a a new route or are some 4s being changed to 4a?

    It's new. There is a currently a 20min frequency on the 4, the 4a is also due to have a 20min frequency.


    As the 4a has Harristown as it's northern terminus it only makes sense to have all the changeovers there. However Getting from Harristown to Clongriffin for each break would add alot of extra time, particularly around the peak periods when the N32 is a (bus lane free) car park.


  • #8
    paulm17781
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,858 ✭✭✭paulm17781


    John R wrote: »
    It's new. There is a currently a 20min frequency on the 4, the 4a is also due to have a 20min frequency.


    As the 4a has Harristown as it's northern terminus it only makes sense to have all the changeovers there. However Getting from Harristown to Clongriffin for each break would add alot of extra time, particularly around the peak periods when the N32 is a (bus lane free) car park.

    Excellent, the frequency will only get better!

    I have issues with the CIE unions but I also agree with them on this. There is nothing worse than the 46A stopping for ages at Donnybrook for a change over. A change over in the city is just as bad. It should always be done at the start / end points of a route.


  • #9
    MiniD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 371 ✭✭MiniD


    Whatever the problem, a strike is never the answer. Even the threat of a strike is enough to discourage people to use the bus. If I remember right, this is not the first time Harristown depot has threatened strike, or gone on unofficial stoppage. On one occasion, it was because Dublin Bus refused to provide them with an Eazypass for the toll bridge.
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0428/dublinbus.html

    It seems they are at it once again...

    On this issue, it is probably worth pointing out that most bus routes already change driver in the city centre. This is due to the fact that not every route passes/terminates at a garage. The new proposed 128 is one of these routes. Under the current plans, it would seem Dublin Bus wants to have these buses in service all day, rather than have hem operating "Out Of Service" to run back to the garage for the driver to change. Surely that's a good thing.

    There are currently 4 frequent routes serving Harristown Depot from the City Centre. The 13,13A, 27B and 83. If a driver needed to get back to the depot to collect their car, then it is very easy. The only difference is that they wouldn't be driving the bus.

    I would think this plan might actually benefit some drivers, who can now head home directly from town, rather than go to the depot. Drivers from other depots have being doing this for years and have no problem with the arrangement. Last month, the Labour Court also found no problem with this arrangement. So why do we have a bunch of drivers threatening the city with a bus strike from Sunday?

    Again, we see the same old argument where the unions and drivers think that operating a bus service is about suiting themselves. I would much rather see a proper service on the 128, than have a batch of buses running "Out Of Service" at various times during the day.


  • #10
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,490 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    It would appear the 4 will operate to Blackrock Village and the 4a to Stradbrook Road.

    http://www.dublinbus.ie/news_centre/latest_news.asp?action=view&news_id=715
    Routes 4/4a & 128- Bus services on the Malahide, Ballymun and Blackrock Quality Bus Corridors

    New and additional bus services on the Malahide, Ballymun and Blackrock Quality Bus Corridors

    Dublin Bus is planning the following major service improvements;

    New Route 4a
    A new Route 4a will be introduced operating from Harristown via Ballymun, Phibsboro, O’Connell Street and Merrion Road to Stradbrook, Blackrock. This route will operate a 20 minute frequency all day.

    Route 4 extended
    This existing 20 minute service will be extended to Harristown. Between Harristown and Blackrock village, Route 4 and 4a will combine giving a bus every ten minutes on weekdays and every 10-20 minutes on Saturday and Sunday.

    New Route 128
    A new high frequency service between Clongriffin and Rathmines using the Malahide Road QBC. Route 128 will operate from the new development in Clongriffin via Clare Hall, Malahide Road, Fairview, City Centre, St. Stephen’s Green and Rathmines Road to Palmerston Park. Buses will operate every ten minutes on weekdays and every 10-20 minutes on Saturday and Sunday.


  • #11
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    If they do strike there goes my hopes of getting to work...


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  • #12
    dub_commuter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭dub_commuter


    I would firstly like to say that Harristown Drivers in my opinion are a cut above the other depots, they will help people off the bus with luggage, they will give detailed connections, they will stop for people running for a bus, help old people and they actually communicate with their customers rather than call us names or scream and shout at us, so I think if you feel they couldn't give a toss about us you misguided, every time I have spoke to a member of staff there they always have been interested and happy to help and actually acted upon any comments or questions.

    I used Phibsborough and Donnybrook services for a year and found them completely the opposite of Harristown, they were often very rude, they would not stop the bus for you running for it, they would frequently miss out stops on purpose so you were left a way away from where you want to get off (Running late is not an excuse) ask passengers for directions, leave very early when it's the last boss or simply not turn up, and frequently I heard passengers being referred to as skulls and any questions or advice asked met with grunts or an aggressive nature.
    On this issue, it is probably worth pointing out that most bus routes already change driver in the city centre.
    Correct. However passengers are annoyed greatly sometimes during peak hours whilst the wait on the bus for the change to happen. This is not acceptable.
    Under the current plans, it would seem Dublin Bus wants to have these buses in service all day, rather than have hem operating "Out Of Service" to run back to the garage for the driver to change. Surely that's a good thing.
    But thats not quite correct is it? If they have to terminate their shifts in the City Centre, when the buses do go back to Harristown they will be required to go back out of service from the City Centre, which may be further away from the City than the terminus may be.
    There are currently 4 frequent routes serving Harristown Depot from the City Centre. The 13,13A, 27B and 83. If a driver needed to get back to the depot to collect their car, then it is very easy. The only difference is that they wouldn't be driving the bus.
    Imagine the situation. You work in the office. Every evening, when you have finished your work, you have to go to head office which is 45 minutes away to drop something in, then you head home? Not fair is it?
    I would think this plan might actually benefit some drivers, who can now head home directly from town, rather than go to the depot.
    But the majority of Harristown drivers drive, so more would be inconvenienced than benefit from the changes.
    Drivers from other depots have being doing this for years and have no problem with the arrangement.
    Yes, and I find Harristown Garage the most punctual garage within Dublin Bus, the garages which have the most changes in the City Centre, I find are the most unreliable.
    Again, we see the same old argument where the unions and drivers think that operating a bus service is about suiting themselves. I would much rather see a proper service on the 128, than have a batch of buses running "Out Of Service" at various times during the day.
    Funny that, I and many others who use a route which was previously based at another Garage which switched to Harristown when it opened, after the switch over bedded in I found the route to be much improved, both from the punctuality of the service to the attitude of the drivers, the drivers actually give a toss, which is more than what said before when hearing someone being called a skull was quite common.

    I'm quite happy to stick with my Harristown route thank you very much, and I shall thank my driver every day when I get on and off my bus for the great service he provides day in day out despite the lack of support he receives from head office it is just a shame that the rest of Dublin Bus cannot take a leaf out of Harristown's book and actually treat their customers with respect.


  • #13
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    Well I normally love these threads so I can laugh at the crazy reasons the unions threaten strike.
    Sure they'd almost go on strike if the wrong teabags were in the canteen

    However, this seems fairly reasonable.
    What if a driver lets say drives to Harristown and starts his shift.
    He then finishes it and has to pay for transport to get back to the depot to collect his car and go home.
    So it costs them time and money after they finished their shift.

    It's not something worth going on strike over but it seems a valid issue.....for once!

    Edit: Mods, maybe this should be merged with the other thread


  • #14
    dub_commuter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭dub_commuter


    John R wrote: »
    As the 4a has Harristown as it's northern terminus it only makes sense to have all the changeovers there. However Getting from Harristown to Clongriffin for each break would add alot of extra time, particularly around the peak periods when the N32 is a (bus lane free) car park.
    Drivers are happy to break anywhere. There has never been any debate about where they are to break with any drivers in Harristown. However some of the press have seemed to have got the idea there is a problem with breaks, that is despite both the Harristown Drivers Association and the Unions stating on many occasions that breaks are not an issue,


  • #15
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,011 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    micmclo wrote: »
    He then finishes it and has to pay for transport to get back to the depot to collect his car and go home.
    So it costs them time and money after they finished their shift
    I'd say it's more of a time issue as they are entitled to free transport on their own services.

    A driver starting a shift will presumably have to go to Harristown and park their car and then get a bus into town to collect their own bus.

    EDIT: Oops - I didn't see the other thread! :o


  • #16
    MiniD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 371 ✭✭MiniD


    passengers are annoyed greatly sometimes during peak hours whilst the wait on the bus for the change to happen. This is not acceptable.

    Well what's your alternative? A driver has to finish their shift or break at some point in their day. If the route they operate doesn't pass a garage, then what is the alternative? Keeping in mind, to operate a proper service, this bus cannot be taken off the road "Out Of Service" for an hour for a driver to bring it back to the depot.

    A driver taking 2 minutes to change place with a colleague is a lot more productive than driving an empty bus back to a depot.
    But thats not quite correct is it? If they have to terminate their shifts in the City Centre, when the buses do go back to Harristown they will be required to go back out of service from the City Centre, which may be further away from the City than the terminus may be.

    No, the driver simply hands over the bus to another driver at a specified location. For example, a 128 bus may be in service from 6am until 9pm, covering 2 or 3 drivers duties. This bus will stay on route all day and will not return to the depot until late that evening.
    Imagine the situation. You work in the office. Every evening, when you have finished your work, you have to go to head office which is 45 minutes away to drop something in, then you head home? Not fair is it?

    But that's the thing. Driving a bus is not like working in an office. Dublin bus drivers have been finishing shifts in the city centre for years, and heading back to their respective depot. Suddenly, it has become an issue because Harristown is a bit further away than Clontarf or Donnybroook etc.
    Surely, one way around this is to give the driver an extra hours pay to facilitate the travel back to the depot by bus. Isn't this the case already on some routes?
    But the majority of Harristown drivers drive, so more would be inconvenienced than benefit from the changes.

    That's their choice surely. Most garages operate ghost staff buses for early morning shifts.
    Yes, and I find Harristown Garage the most punctual garage within Dublin Bus, the garages which have the most changes in the City Centre, I find are the most unreliable.

    While you're entitled to your opinion, that's all that is. Unless you can provide some factual information confirming the punctuality of garages, it bears no relevance to this discussion.
    A cross-city route suffers from congestion which affects every bus route, regardless of depot.


    I think it's great you've had a positive experience of using Harristown routes. I use a combination of bus routes/garages every day, and find the drivers to be mostly pleasant. All that aside, it is the Harristown drivers/unions who are threatening strike action. I don't find that respectful towards customers.


  • #17
    trellheim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,964 ✭✭✭trellheim


    From RTE :

    Dublin Bus passengers could face disruption from Monday due to a dispute with drivers.

    Dublin Bus wants drivers from Harristown depot to start, break and finish in the city centre rather than at the depot.

    The company says this will allow it to schedule frequent services on two new routes, however drivers want to return to the depot for all starts, breaks and finishes.
    Advertisement

    Both SIPTU and the NBRU are balloting members for industrial action with the result of these ballots due later this afternoon.

    The Labour Court has backed the new rosters proposed by Dublin Bus, which would be operated by junior drivers.

    Dublin Bus says it is introducing the disputed rosters from Monday morning.



    from me : what's the junior driver thing ? sounds like not all the story is being told.


  • #18
    markpb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,342 ✭✭✭markpb


    I presume by junior drivers they mean sparemen and in lieu of the real spareman answering your question, they are drivers who aren't allocated to a specific route yet. They hang around the garage watching TV, playing pool and bitching about customers :)


  • #19
    spareman
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭spareman


    micmclo wrote: »
    Well I normally love these threads so I can laugh at the crazy reasons the unions threaten strike.
    Sure they'd almost go on strike if the wrong teabags were in the canteen
    We supply our own tea bags so thats never going to happen!! (or would it eemm?)
    Seriously though, When was the last time we went on strike for a crazy reason? You make it sound like we are out every other week.


  • #20
    spareman
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭spareman


    markpb wrote: »
    I presume by junior drivers they mean sparemen and in lieu of the real spareman answering your question, they are drivers who aren't allocated to a specific route yet. They hang around the garage watching TV, playing pool and bitching about customers :)
    I wish!! I havent seen the pool table for 3 years, We cover all the B rota work, 10/12 hour duty's and any other crap work that comes up, and we dont bitch about all the passengers, just the one's that annoy us.


  • #21
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,490 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    spareman wrote: »
    When was the last time we went on strike for a crazy reason?
    Irish Ferries?


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  • #22
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    micmclo wrote: »
    What if a driver lets say drives to Harristown and starts his shift.
    He then finishes it and has to pay for transport to get back to the depot to collect his car and go home.
    So it costs them time and money after they finished their shift.
    So it's going to cost them time and money to get to and from work?
    I can understand their position and so can everyone else in the country as everyone else has to do it every day!
    We could all arrange a rota and pick them up and drop them home, free of charge of course, if that would be any help.


  • #23
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,490 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Threads merged.


  • #24
    spareman
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭spareman


    Victor wrote: »
    Irish Ferries?
    Come on will you, have the friggin country went out on that one, If thats the best you can do, thats saying something.


  • #25
    MiniD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 371 ✭✭MiniD


    Hagar wrote: »
    So it's going to cost them time and money to get to and from work?

    Not if traveling back to the depot is built into their workday and they are paid traveling time.


  • #26
    meanmachine3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 551 ✭✭✭meanmachine3


    ok ladies and gentlemen i'll try and be nice about this one. i'll do this in points.
    (1)harristown drivers hold most of the roues in the city together.A prime example of this is the route 39. if there were no harristown drivers working this route ,you would have f... all of a bus service on that route. you'd be waiting up to an hour without these guys.
    (2) i dont know what world markpb is living in. spare drivers are treated like ****. it can take up to 9 years for a spare driver to get a route. these drivers dont know what they're working from one day to another. e.g. a spare driver will only find out about midday today what he's working tomorrow , they cannot tell their partners what time they'll be home at,they cant make any plans to go out. they only time a spare driver can plan ahead is when they are off even then they cant if they've to be up at 3.30am plus the following morning. most spare drivers finish after 9pm at least twice a week when they are supposed to be early. so mark please less of the watching t.v. etc. you have a life they dont.
    (3) travelling time or walking time as it's known are both the same ,and all you get in 30 mins. so drivers have to walk from o'connell street to the back of the airport in 30 mins. (man i wish i had winggggs)
    (4) any job you work you get a morning break and a lunch break. bus drivers only get one break and alot of time that only lasts 30-40 mins even though it's an hour break because if they took their full break again there'd be no bus service.
    (5) if you waited for every runner when your in the city centre you might as well knock of the engine and wait there till your finished.
    (6) sniper alley : anybody living around ongar/huntstown will know whats happened to their bus service at the moment. (any comments on this one i think not)


  • #27
    meanmachine3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 551 ✭✭✭meanmachine3


    to save alot of hassle would it be possible for one of the moderators to set up a poll along the lines of
    " do you agree with dublin bus drivers planned strike"


  • #28
    MiniD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 371 ✭✭MiniD


    (1)harristown drivers hold most of the roues in the city together.A prime example of this is the route 39. if there were no harristown drivers working this route ,you would have f... all of a bus service on that route. you'd be waiting up to an hour without these guys.

    I presume you mean Euro Duties. This has nothing to do with holding routes together, rather maintaining a proper service in a congested city where the bus simply doesn't have enough priority. These euro duties involve filling gaps in the bus network. There are spare drivers in every bus depot, Harristown may have more than others, but this is down to the nature of the depot itself. Harristown was designed to accommodate more Euro Duties, and therefore will naturally have more spare drivers.
    (2) i dont know what world markpb is living in. spare drivers are treated like ****. it can take up to 9 years for a spare driver to get a route. these drivers dont know what they're working from one day to another...

    I really don't mean to sound patronising, but if a spare driver is unhappy and faces the prospect of working an unstable roster for 9 years, then they should really look for another job. It is probably worth mentioning that shift work suits a lot of people and I would assume not all spare drivers are unhappy with their working arrangements. Only 59% of SIPTU drivers have voted in favour of industrial action.
    (3) travelling time or walking time as it's known are both the same ,and all you get in 30 mins. so drivers have to walk from o'connell street to the back of the airport in 30 mins. (man i wish i had winggggs)

    I'm sure drivers are allowed more than 30 minutes to travel to Harristown. There is no suggestion of walking anywhere other than to a bus stop. The 13/A lists the journey time to Harristown as 35 minutes.

    Isn't there a facility in the city centre, where drivers can clock out? Surely this must be handy for some drivers who don't necessarily need to travel back out to Harristown.
    (6) sniper alley : anybody living around ongar/huntstown will know whats happened to their bus service at the moment. (any comments on this one i think not)

    There is a separate thread on this subject:
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055180242


    MeanMachine, can I ask what the drivers actually want? Surely they realise that it's not possible for every bus route from Harristown Depot to terminate at Harristown bus depot.
    What is the alternative to starting/finishing/breaking in the City Centre?


  • #29
    spareman
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭spareman


    This has nothing to do with holding routes together, rather maintaining a proper service in a congested city where the bus simply doesn't have enough priority.
    Can you tell me the difference between the 2 statements above please, I fail to see one.
    I really don't mean to sound patronising, but if a spare driver is unhappy and faces the prospect of working an unstable roster for 9 years, then they should really look for another job. It is probably worth mentioning that shift work suits a lot of people and I would assume not all spare drivers are unhappy with their working arrangements. Only 59% of SIPTU drivers have voted in favour of industrial action.
    The majority of spare staff are members of the NRBU, Im a spare driver, and I absolutely hate the unstable working hours as does my wife and kids Im sure, but the other terms and conditions are quite favourable, I also like driving buses, should I quit? or should I hang in there for a few more years until I have a route and roster?
    I'm sure drivers are allowed more than 30 minutes to travel to Harristown. There is no suggestion of walking anywhere other than to a bus stop. The 13/A lists the journey time to Harristown as 35 minutes.
    Isn't there a facility in the city centre, where drivers can clock out? Surely this must be handy for some drivers who don't necessarily need to travel back out to Harristown.
    I dont think it matters how much traveling time they get or have thats not the Issue, When harristown opened staff were told all duty's would start and finish in the garage, now they want to change this. Alot of driver's moved to Harristown based on this.


  • #30
    meanmachine3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 551 ✭✭✭meanmachine3


    i cant answer what they are looking for,but what i can say is this. harristown was made up the way it is to get alot of buses out of the city centre,thy have their own facilites out there including a staff canteen and a gym which quite alot of drivers use.


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  • #31
    MiniD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 371 ✭✭MiniD


    Can you tell me the difference between the 2 statements above please, I fail to see one.

    There probably is no difference, but I wouldn't call it holding routes together. One of the reasons Harristown was built was to house these extra buses for peak times. Funding was provided for euro duties to provide extra capicity and frequency for certain routes. Harristown euro duties do exactly what they were designed to do.
    Im a spare driver, and I absolutely hate the unstable working hours as does my wife and kids Im sure, but the other terms and conditions are quite favourable, I also like driving buses, should I quit? or should I hang in there for a few more years until I have a route and roster?

    That's a decision you have to make. If you believe it's worth hanging on for a better deal then maybe you should. Lots of jobs require years of working your way up to a good position. When you started in your job, was it made clear it would involve unstable shift work?

    From what I can make out from this dispute, the Labour Court has approved the plans for these new rosters so it seems Dublin Bus has done nothing wrong here.
    I dont think it matters how much traveling time they get or have thats not the Issue,


    from rte.ie

    Drivers say the new rosters will mean they have to start, finish and take their breaks in the city centre rather than at the central depot in Harristown. They say this will prolong their working day.

    What is the issue then? If traveling to Harristown is built into their shift, then how does this prolong their working day?
    When harristown opened staff were told all duty's would start and finish in the garage, now they want to change this. Alot of driver's moved to Harristown based on this.

    But the duties still start and finish in the garage, except you won't be driving an out of service bus to get there.

    I'm not sure what is in your agreed contract of employment, but unless it states you can drive your bus back to the depot, then I don't see the problem. How do you operate a frequent cross city route where every duty starts and finishes in the garage, when the route travels nowhere the depot?

    Again, what do the drivers threatening to strike actually want?


  • #32
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    Any idea if they're going on strike yet, I have to make alternative travel arrangements and it's not going to be easy...


  • #33
    spareman
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭spareman


    Im not arguing any more stupid nity points with people on boards, here's what I know, Management have decided to change the work practice's of staff in Harristown Garage without agreement, In other words they will force drivers to travel 11 km further to start work, without consulting them. Staff in harristown have refused to accept these new roster's and as a result have given there union a Mandate for industrial action.

    Industrial action will begin when management try to force drivers to work the new roster's, the 1st driver will refuse, he will be suspended, and all drivers in Harristown will be at the gate. This is likely to happen at 6am monday morning, now given that Dublin Bus has a number of properties in the Dublin area, A union member who is in dispute with Dublin bus can picket any property owned by Dublin Bus, So I would say if This is not resolved by Lunch time on Monday, every bus in the city will be parked up.

    Now before you go replying and quoting me I would just like to point out that this is my opinion of what will happen, I am not an expert in industrial relations or union matters, or the internal working's of Dublin bus management.

    If you want to know if the strike will go ahead phone Harristown Depot and ask are they going to start the new roster's on monday, if the answer is yes they above may happen.

    As far as Im aware there has been no contact between the union's and Dublin bus.

    Alot of our drivers in harristown would live north of the garage, So if your boss asked you to go and work 11 km further than you already travel to work would that be ok with you?


  • #34
    spareman
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭spareman


    adrieanne__x wrote: »
    Any idea if they're going on strike yet, I have to make alternative travel arrangements and it's not going to be easy...
    You should ask Dublin Bus, they are the only people who know, If they try to implement the unagreed roster's, then there will be strike action, If they decide to talk to the unions then there may not be strike action, Phone them and see what they will do, Id love to know myself, I may need the long johns with me on monday.


  • #35
    MiniD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 371 ✭✭MiniD


    spareman wrote: »

    Alot of our drivers in harristown would live north of the garage, So if your boss asked you to go and work 11 km further than you already travel to work would that be ok with you?

    People travel all distances to work, that should bear no relevance on the job they do. Can I ask, how does a driver who may be working eg. the 11 bus work their shift?

    This is a cross city route and doesn't pass by Donnybrook garage. How do those drivers take over a journey from another driver?

    For the record, I'm not arguing "stupid nity points". We're discussing possible citywide disruption of bus services from Monday morning. As a passenger, I'm genuinely interested in the reasons for this strike. I understand drivers may have to travel to the city centre to get their bus. Given that they are paid for this travel as part of the shift, and this arrangement has been approved by the Labour Court, I honestly don't understand why drivers have a problem. This arrangement exists in all other Dublin Bus garages and has done for years, yet the only difference I can see here is that Harristown is further away from the City Centre.

    Nobody has offered an alternative to operating a cross-city route without drivers ending their shift in the city centre. What do these drivers suggest should happen when they finish their shift?

    According to the Dublin Bus website, the 128 is due to begin today, Sunday November 12th. It now seems like this won't be happening and there will be a city-wide strike on Monday. Despite all the media coverage, there is no mention of this possible disruption on the Dublin Bus website, there is no travel advice of alternative modes of transport available to customers. Once again, the customer/passenger come last in all of this. As a result, people like Adrieanne are left wondering if they can go about their normal day on Monday.


  • #36
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,345 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    spareman wrote: »
    A union member who is in dispute with Dublin bus can picket any property owned by Dublin Bus, So I would say if This is not resolved by Lunch time on Monday, every bus in the city will be parked up.

    The evils of trade unionism exposed. Instead of localising the dispute the travelling public get to be the unions ammunition.


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  • #37
    patrickc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,928 ✭✭✭patrickc


    I for one agree with the drivers on this one, and am by no means connected to them


  • #38
    dub_commuter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭dub_commuter


    Harristown will be closed on Monday and likely for longer.


  • #39
    gazzer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,049 ✭✭✭gazzer


    I thought that drivers already started shifts from the city centre so what is the problem??? I have often been on buses where the drivers switched in Parnell St and O'Connell St. I presume the drivers had to come in from their garage to meet the bus in town. So what is different in Harristown??

    I work in the Civil Service and we can be moved to any section of a department once it is within a 20 Km(or could be mile) radius of the office we are currently in.. I work in the city centre but could be moved to Ashtown or Maynooth or anywhere that is not on my direct route from where I live but I would still have to make it there and thats that..


  • #40
    jahalpin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,031 ✭✭✭jahalpin


    I think the stike is a complete disgrace. It's about time that semi-state emplyees started living in the real world.

    Drivers on most routes change over in the city centre and Dublin Bus provides a large canteen etc. on one of the streets just off O'Connell Street.

    The buses from Harristown depot are among the dirtiest and most unrelaible in the fleet.

    If I were a union official I would be more worried about the privitisation of the bus services and how this would affect my members rather than where someone has to get on and off a bus

    It's about time the unions understood that Dublin Bus is there to provide a service to its customers rather than to its staff.

    The labour court ruled against the union on this issue and the unions should respect their decision.

    My workplace recently moved from the City Centre to near Harristown and most staff understood that it was in the best interest of the business

    As for the drivers in Clontarf garage threatening to go out on strike in sympathy, this would be illegal and any staff taking part should be immediately dismissed from their jobs


  • #41
    spareman
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭spareman


    Drivers in Harristown are being given 46mins overtime to travel between harristown and the city on top of there working day, so if a driver is working an 8 hour shift lets say 9am to 5pm, He must now turn up at harristown at 08.14 and catch a bus to the city for 9am, and then travel back when he is finished at 5pm, supposedly arriving at harristown at 5.46pm.
    This will lead to serious delays for passengers waiting for driver's to arrive at handover points, it will also prolong the bus driver's working day even though they will be paid for it, they did not ask for extra hours. I dont agree with all out strike myself, I believe in the no fares metod of industrial action, for the first week at least. Its up to the company weather there will be industrial action, we have given them notice of pending industrial action if they pursue there agenda of forceing changes on staff with no negotiations or agreement, I cant tell you if you will have a bus or not come monday, the only people who know is the management at Harristown.

    The evils of trade unionism exposed. Instead of localising the dispute the travelling public get to be the unions ammunition.
    Im not going to get into a debate with anti union people on boards anymore, just to say the evils of both sides have been exposed here. Drivers are angry at the company and as a result our passengers are angry with us, We are doing this in the passengers interest aswell as our own, Most routes that hand over in the garages are much more reliable than other route's, and I think passengers will agree with me there.


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  • #42
    spareman
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭spareman


    jahalpin wrote: »
    I think the stike is a complete disgrace. It's about time that semi-state emplyees started living in the real world.

    Drivers on most routes change over in the city centre and Dublin Bus provides a large canteen etc. on one of the streets just off O'Connell Street.

    The buses from Harristown depot are among the dirtiest and most unrelaible in the fleet.

    If I were a union official I would be more worried about the privitisation of the bus services and how this would affect my members rather than where someone has to get on and off a bus

    It's about time the unions understood that Dublin Bus is there to provide a service to its customers rather than to its staff.

    The labour court ruled against the union on this issue and the unions should respect their decision.

    My workplace recently moved from the City Centre to near Harristown and most staff understood that it was in the best interest of the business

    As for the drivers in Clontarf garage threatening to go out on strike in sympathy, this would be illegal and any staff taking part should be immediately dismissed from their jobs

    Another boards expert who hasn't got a clue.:rolleyes:


  • #43
    trellheim
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,964 ✭✭✭trellheim


    The previous poster shows little knowledge of past industrial relations in this country if saying that refusing to pass a picket would get you fired.

    Although I may be wrong ; post examples [ sorry spareman you got in before me, meant jahalpin ]


  • #44
    dub_commuter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭dub_commuter


    spareman wrote: »
    Drivers in Harristown are being given 46mins overtime to travel between harristown and the city on top of there working day, so if a driver is working an 8 hour shift lets say 9am to 5pm, He must now turn up at harristown at 08.14 and catch a bus to the city for 9am, and then travel back when he is finished at 5pm, supposedly arriving at harristown at 5.46pm.

    This will lead to serious delays for passengers waiting for driver's to arrive at handover points, it will also prolong the bus driver's working day even though they will be paid for it, they did not ask for extra hours.
    Exactly and thats not acceptable, a good comparison is you start at work at 9am and before you go to work every morning you must go to head office which is ages away to pick up one little piece of paper, only then can you head to work even if it means double backing on yourself. You end up leaving earlier than you need to if you went to work directly.

    Then in the evening when you finish work at 5pm, you have to drop this thing into head office again before you can go home, which means you may have to double back again, which means you have to head to head office every day before and after work before you can go home, so whilst you finish at 5, you may not start heading home until six.
    I dont agree with all out strike myself, I believe in the no fares metod of industrial action, for the first week at least. Its up to the company weather there will be industrial action, we have given them notice of pending industrial action if they pursue there agenda of forceing changes on staff with no negotiations or agreement, I cant tell you if you will have a bus or not come monday, the only people who know is the management at Harristown.
    From what I hear local management is not the problem, more head office that are forcing local management to do whatever they say. There was a few Harristown Driver's on Friday and yesterday not taking fares apparentley because their machines were broke, but I very much doubt this but would not taking fares leave them open to further action? Drivers were earlier advising people to use private services where possible.
    Im not going to get into a debate with anti union people on boards anymore, just to say the evils of both sides have been exposed here. Drivers are angry at the company and as a result our passengers are angry with us, We are doing this in the passengers interest aswell as our own, Most routes that hand over in the garages are much more reliable than other route's, and I think passengers will agree with me there.

    I fully agree, the Harristown routes are all very reliable from what I have experienced, the drivers are very friendly, always willing to help and should be set as an example for some of the other routes around the company are operated, instead it seems that Dublin Bus would prefer to trumpet the models which results in unreliable service. From listening to a few conversations yesterday, the fear is that if they do this to the new routes they will do it to all the other routes during their next timetable refresh as well so screwing up the whole of north Dublin.

    I absolutely hate the unions they strike for bloody strange reasons at times and i never have supported them in my life. I do today though.


  • #45
    dub_commuter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭dub_commuter


    jahalpin wrote: »
    I think the stike is a complete disgrace. It's about time that semi-state emplyees started living in the real world.

    Drivers on most routes change over in the city centre and Dublin Bus provides a large canteen etc. on one of the streets just off O'Connell Street.

    The buses from Harristown depot are among the dirtiest and most unrelaible in the fleet.

    If I were a union official I would be more worried about the privitisation of the bus services and how this would affect my members rather than where someone has to get on and off a bus

    It's about time the unions understood that Dublin Bus is there to provide a service to its customers rather than to its staff.

    The labour court ruled against the union on this issue and the unions should respect their decision.

    My workplace recently moved from the City Centre to near Harristown and most staff understood that it was in the best interest of the business

    As for the drivers in Clontarf garage threatening to go out on strike in sympathy, this would be illegal and any staff taking part should be immediately dismissed from their jobs

    What a load of crap you speak.


  • #46
    spareman
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭spareman


    Just hearing a driver has been suspended at harristown in the last hour, So looks like we will have no buses on monday.
    On behalf of myself and other driver's I would like to apolagise to the traveling public and regular bus users.
    We are sorry it has come to this, Nobody wanted strike action, We have been backed into a corner by managements forced changes of work practice's.

    Quotes taken from our Bus driver site;
    We are currently aranging for members to be sent to each dublin bus property and speaking with our colleagues in BE and IE. There are no talks to be held today as HQ will not join union reps
    At this point there is a chance of a full all company strike tommorow by mid-day. If any Dublin Bus management are reading this I urge them to come to negotiations to help us avoid this situation.


  • #47
    dub_commuter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭dub_commuter


    From the Dublin Bus Site
    Due to industrial action by bus drivers in Harristown Bus Garage, services operating from this garage will be disrupted on Monday 12th November 2007.

    The main areas which will be affected are Finglas, Swords, Ballymun, Blanchardstown, Donabate, Portrane, Dunboyne, Littlepace, Tyrrelstown, Damastown, Portmarnock, Kinsealy and Kilmore.

    The following routes will have NO service:
    4, 13, 13a, 17a, 27b, 33b, 37x, 39x, 39b, 40, 40a, 40b, 40c, 40d, 70x, 83, 102, 105, 127, 129, 142, 230, 237, 238, 239.

    The following routes will have a LIMITED service:
    27x, 37, 38/a, 38c, 39, 41, 41c, 41x, 43, 70/a, 270

    27x
    The following departures will not operate from Clare Hall 0725, 0805, 0820, 0910 and the following departures will not operate from UCD 1540, 1600, 1645, 1705.

    37
    The following departures will not operate from Carpenterstown 0645, 0725, 0800, 0810, 0820, 0835, 0920, 1610 and the following departures will not operate from the City Centre 0735, 0840, 0930, 1530, 1640, 1700, 1725, 1756.

    38/a
    The following departures will not operate from Damastown 0635, 0700, 0710, 0730, 0740, 0830, 0850, 0935, 0940, 1040, 1140, 1500, 1520, 1535, 1540, 1615, 1625, 1640, 1650, 1700, 1715, 1725, 1740, and the following departures will not operate from the City Centre 0735, 0820, 0825, 0845, 0930, 1510, 1515, 1540, 1545, 1600, 1630, 1645, 1655, 1700, 1730, 1750, 1815.

    38c
    The following departures will not operate from Tyrrellstown 0745, 0810, 1030, 1550 and the following departure will not operate from the City Centre 0925.

    39
    The following departures will not operate from Ongar 0740, 0800, 0806, 0814, 0815, 0821, 0828, 0830, 0835, 0845, 1025, 1515, 1525, 1530, 1545, 1555, 1600, 1610 and the following departures will not operate from the City Centre 0855, 0910, 0920, 0925, 0930, 0935, 1630, 1640, 1650, 1720, 1755.

    41
    The following departure will not operate from Dublin Airport 0650, the following departures will not operate from Swords Manor 0700, 1245, 1340, 1510, 1755, 1950 and the following departures will not operate from the City Centre 0750, 0752, 0800, 1125, 1255, 1305, 1455, 1825.

    41c
    The following departures will not operate from Swords Manor 0640, 1135, 1240, the following departures will not operate from the Christian Brothers School 0715, 0745, 0900 and the following departures will not operate from the City Centre 0910, 1355, 1635, 1905.

    41x
    The following departures will not operate from Swords 0730, 0745 and the following departures will not operate from UCD 1700, 1715, 1730.

    43
    The following departure will not operate from Swords Business Park 1530 and the following departure will not operate from the City Centre 1630.

    70/a
    The following departures will not operate from Dunboyne 0720, 0750, 0815, 0830, 0940, 1710 and the following departures will not operate from the City Centre 0835, 1515, 1600, 1630.

    270
    The following departures will not operate from Dunboyne 0920, 1015, 1600 and the following departures will not operate from Blanchardstown 0855, 0950.


  • #48
    spareman
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭spareman


    From what I know Harristown members will send union members to all Dublin Bus properties tomorrow morning, so disregard the Dublin bus statement and make alternative arrangements. I cant see any routes operating tomorrow unless this is resolved tonight.


  • #49
    dub_commuter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭dub_commuter


    SIPTU STATEMENT
    SIPTU Branch Organiser Willie Noone says the Union is willing to reopen negotiations with Dublin Bus on rosters for new routes at Harristown garage and that members are willing to work normally in the meantime. However they will not operate the proposed 4a and 128 routes which management propose to introduce unilaterally on Monday morning.

    Mr. Noone was speaking after a two hour long meeting at Harristown on Saturday, November 10, where SIPTU drivers reviewed the situation in the light of yesterday’s ballot for industrial action over the new routes. Seven days' notice of industrial action has been served by SIPTU on the company but the dispute could be triggered earlier, if Dublin Bus unilaterally introduces new rosters without agreement.

    “There is no need for disruption to services if Dublin Bus is willing to defer implementation of its decision and re-enter negotiations”, Mr Noone said. “We remain available for talks. There will be no escalation in the dispute unless management chooses to escalate it.”


  • #50
    spareman
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭spareman


    Apolagies for the miss imformation, Im hearing now, no driver has been suspended yet at harristown. will keep you posted as and when I hear anything further.


  • #51
    dub_commuter
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭dub_commuter


    If no driver has been suspended then what has escalated it then? From the SIPTU Statement it seems that originally the strike was just for the 4a and the 128, and would only be more if it was escalated, so something must have happened in order for an all out garage strike.


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