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M17/M18 - Gort to Tuam [open to traffic]

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Comments

  • #1002
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,545 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    yer man! wrote: »
    Funding from EIB secured apparently.

    http://galwayindependent.com/stories/item/2509/2012-22/EIB-funding-secured-for-Gort-Tuam-route

    Secured more than two years ago. Anything pro-Europe is being re-announced due to the referendum.


  • #1003
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    There's a full article about this in the Connacht Tribune today.

    Yes it's conveniently announced the week of the referendum but there are a couple of interesting details that are new or explain (plausibly) the reason for the delay when we know there's EIB commitment for 2 years.
    Discussions with the European Commission to provide a funding mechanism for the 57km Gort to Tuam motorway are at a “critical stage” and the project could be given the green light in the coming weeks.

    We've had about a half dozen false starts, i'm not holding my breath.
    Public Expenditure and Reform Minister Brendan Howlin said he is keeping hopes high that €173m in funding can be leveraged from the European Structural Fund and European Investment Bank for the motorway, which would create around 2,500 jobs.

    I haven't heard anything about money from the European Structural Fund wrt any roads project in Ireland for a while because we've been out of Objective 1 status (even with the fiddling to keep the BMW region O1 for a bit longer) for a few years.
    If the €173m funding – which has been approved in principle by the Investment Bank – can be secured, it’s understood roadbuilding consortium BAM Balfour Beatty would then be in a position to find private investors.

    Galway East Labour TD Colm Keaveney told the Connacht Tribune that the project is topping the list of capital-ready projects in this country at the moment.

    If it's capital ready wtf is the reason for it not being started already?
    He explained (sic Deputy Kenny, Galway East) that technical discussions are taking place between Minister Howlin, the European Commission and the European Investment Bank, because Ireland does not have an AAA-rated bank, and a “firewall” for the investment in the road would have to be provided.

    The European Investment Bank has already agreed in principle to providing €173m – the backing from Europe is expected to be a strong enough guarantee to the BAM Balfour Beatty consortium to raise the private investment element of the project.

    So there are apparently more strings attached to the EIB funding that was clear before (or it could just be window dressing to explain away the "reappearance" of the funding this week)


  • #1004
    mintoffdom
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 28 ✭mintoffdom


    MYOB wrote: »
    Secured more than two years ago. Anything pro-Europe is being re-announced due to the referendum.

    Cynical doesn't even begin to describe it :mad:


  • #1005
    black47
    Registered Users Posts: 123 ✭✭black47


    Taken from RTE website

    Ireland to benefit from European Investment Bank collateral rule change

    Updated: 19:41, Friday, 22 June 2012



    inShare2




    Minister for Finance Michael Noonan has said the European Investment Bank had agreed to relax the collateral rules allowing the Government and the private sector to access fresh funding.
    1 of 100060ef5-314.jpg Michael Noonan, pictured with Jean Claude Juncker, announced the change in European Investment Bank's rules after today's ECOFIN meeting


    Related Stories
    The funding is expected to be announced as part of a package of growth measures to be agreed at next week's summit of EU leaders.
    Projects which could be earmarked for funding could include the Dublin-Wexford road, the Tuam-Gort road, new schools and community health centres, Mr Noonan said.
    EU leaders are expected to increase the capital of the EIB by €10 billion.
    The increase could in turn leverage the EIB's lending capacity to up to €60bn which would be spent on infrastructure projects.
    Ireland's access to EIB funding is limited, since as a triple A-rated bank it requires certain collateral rules.
    But Mr Noonan said the EIB president had agreed to look at ways of relaxing those rules to access more funding.
    "At present the EIB are undercommitted to Ireland, so there's scope for improvement." the Minister said.

    Fingers crossed


  • #1006
    yew_tree
    Registered Users Posts: 543 ✭✭✭yew_tree


    I see they have started a new road through that bad section between Milltown and Tuam. This measn it will be a generation before any new M17 comes north of tuam anyway.


  • #1007
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    yew_tree wrote: »
    I see they have started a new road through that bad section between Milltown and Tuam. This measn it will be a generation before any new M17 comes north of tuam anyway.

    Wrong thread - you should be in the Tuam to Claremorris thread.

    That section of road is in planning for years and needs to be done regardless of any section of DC


  • #1008
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    antoobrien wrote: »
    That section of road is in planning for years and needs to be done regardless of any section of DC
    Not that we need *M*17 north of there anyway. If it was me it'd get wide single carriageway! But we got rid of that. :confused:


  • #1009
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    spacetweek wrote: »
    Not that we need *M*17 north of there anyway. If it was me it'd get wide single carriageway! But we got rid of that. :confused:

    Don't think it's planned for M status, just DC (as the M6 was originally).

    Besides isn't there information floating around that says wide S1 is as expensive as DC?


  • #1010
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,545 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    As expensive as narrow DC and significantly more dangerous due to the risk of headons with ~250km/h closing speeds


  • #1011
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    MYOB wrote: »
    As expensive as narrow DC and significantly more dangerous due to the risk of headons with ~250km/h closing speeds
    As expensive to build, but maintenance cost of DC is far higher than SC.


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  • #1012
    serfboard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,720 ✭✭✭serfboard


    RTE website wrote:
    Projects which could be earmarked for funding could include the Dublin-Wexford road, the Tuam-Gort road, new schools and community health centres, Mr Noonan said.
    I find it interesting that only two road projects get mentioned, and that this is one of them.

    So the GCOB and the M20 are dead?


  • #1013
    jenningso
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 131 ✭✭jenningso


    spacetweek wrote: »
    As expensive to build, but maintenance cost of DC is far higher than SC.

    Dublin based bias as usual. You think single carraigeways are the way to go because of cost, but with little regard to safety? Maintenance costs on proper DCs are less due to increased efficiencies and better design features. I wonder were you complaining when they widened the m50?


  • #1014
    Tech3
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,010 ✭✭✭Tech3


    ^^ N17 north of Tuam will be narrow dc. It's the standard nowadays y'know. It doesnt really matter as it wont be built for another 40 years


  • #1015
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,545 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    spacetweek wrote: »
    As expensive to build, but maintenance cost of DC is far higher than SC.

    Only because we insist on continuing with the razor-wire barriers.


  • #1016
    marmurr1916
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭marmurr1916


    MYOB wrote: »
    Only because we insist on continuing with the razor-wire barriers.

    Maybe we could adopt narrower concrete barriers, like in figure 20:

    http://www.transport.tas.gov.au/road/road_hazard_management_guide?SQ_DESIGN_NAME=printer_friendly#22


  • #1017
    f2
    Registered Users Posts: 231 ✭✭f2


    Anything happening with M17, no sign of a start date. I saw that the European Investment Fund were putting 172 million towards it, usual policital announcements and then the silence is deafening. Has the land been purchased, talking to people around Tuam, some landowners are paid but more are not, some fencing has been done.


  • #1018
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    f2 wrote: »
    Anything happening with M17, no sign of a start date. I saw that the European Investment Fund were putting 172 million towards it, usual policital announcements and then the silence is deafening. Has the land been purchased, talking to people around Tuam, some landowners are paid but more are not, some fencing has been done.

    The EIB loan facility is there for two years, the CPOs were announced 3 years ago (there's supposedly been €120m-€140m been spent on land).

    This is waiting on BAM (tender winner) to find the rest of the capital, don't hold your breath.


  • #1019
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Had we not blown the money on the WRC we would be able to afford this project ( along with the CPOs already spent and the €170m EIB loan of course) .


  • #1020
    f2
    Registered Users Posts: 231 ✭✭f2


    It was strongly rumoured Roadbridge were taking over the project but nothing came of it, talking to a local landowner he said some of his neighbours were paid but he is having problems trying to get the council to send out the final papers for signing. Im hoping it might start, hoping for some work!


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  • #1021
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Had we not blown the money on the WRC we would be able to afford this project ( along with the CPOs already spent and the €170m EIB loan of course) .
    WRC: th e ultimate prof that the theory "build it and they'll come" is a fallacy made up by people.that just don't want to see something built.


  • #1022
    irishgeo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,527 ✭✭✭irishgeo


    Noone is going to touch a PPP with Ireland government debt still rated as junk.


  • #1023
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    irishgeo wrote: »
    Noone is going to touch a PPP with Ireland government debt still rated as junk.

    PPP mightn't be needed. There are ongoing negotiations regarding a stimulus package that will be spent on infrastructure projects. This is one of the ones reputed to be top of that list.


  • #1024
    f2
    Registered Users Posts: 231 ✭✭f2


    Read in paper that the projact may have to go to tender again because of partail EIF funding


  • #1025
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    f2 wrote: »
    Read in paper that the projact may have to go to tender again because of partail EIF funding

    Link to article if possible

    Are you sure that's not EIB funding, which was originally announced before the tender?

    Unless the EIF funding changes the rules of the tender, they're be no reason to retender - other than to screw over BAM


  • #1026
    f2
    Registered Users Posts: 231 ✭✭f2


    It was announced as European Investment Fund, 172 million was the figure given, they were expecting BAM would be able to put the rest of finance in place as far as I can remember. This was announced maybe 6 weeks ago


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  • #1027
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    f2 wrote: »
    It was announced as European Investment Fund, 172 million was the figure given, they were expecting BAM would be able to put the rest of finance in place as far as I can remember. This was announced maybe 6 weeks ago

    That's the EIB funding.

    It was first announced two years ago: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=65845970#post65845970 (post #335)
    and "refreshed" just before the referendum: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055673984&page=67 (post #995)


  • #1028
    jenningso
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 131 ✭✭jenningso


    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0717/breaking2.html

    This will create jobs and open up a large area of Galway, making it easier and more efficient to do business. Hopefully, the Galway City outer bypass will get the go-ahead in Autumn too. That too would make a massive difference to Galway City, spreading business east and west of Galway to everyone's advantage.


  • #1029
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    jenningso wrote: »
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0717/breaking2.html

    This will create jobs and open up a large area of Galway, making it easier and more efficient to do business. Hopefully, the Galway City outer bypass will get the go-ahead in Autumn too. That too would make a massive difference to Galway City, spreading business east and west of Galway to everyone's advantage.

    I don't want to be a killjoy, but please wait until the government actually announce it. Yes I know there have been a lot of speculation over the past few weeks (leaks, comments, announcements etc) and it makes sense (especially given the announcement in the budget last year) but there are a lot of projects being mentioned and only €2bn to go around (e.g. DIT will cust up to €500m).

    btw I hope to be coming on here later in the day saying thank god.


  • #1030
    serfboard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,720 ✭✭✭serfboard


    antoobrien wrote: »
    I don't want to be a killjoy, but please wait until the government actually announce it. Yes I know there have been a lot of speculation over the past few weeks (leaks, comments, announcements etc) and it makes sense (especially given the announcement in the budget last year) but there are a lot of projects being mentioned and only €2bn to go around (e.g. DIT will cust up to €500m).

    btw I hope to be coming on here later in the day saying thank god.

    Was listening to Galway Bay FM this morning and both Paul Connaughton and Colm Keaveney were on saying it was going to go ahead, so you can take it that it is going to go ahead.


  • #1031
    the keen edge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭the keen edge


    Ah well if the politicians said so.........:pac:


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  • #1032
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    serfboard wrote: »
    Was listening to Galway Bay FM this morning and both Paul Connaughton and Colm Keaveney were on saying it was going to go ahead, so you can take it that it is going to go ahead.

    This has been going on for over 3 years I've seen plenty of false dawns. I've been watching the coverage of this from the GCOB perspective (they've said that it's top of the pile but it's still stuck in ECJ so this one must be next), so all I'm saying is:

    don't jinx it.


  • #1033
    dubhthach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    It's funny listening to the radio this morning how people don't see the big picture. Lots of people saying why do we need a motorway between Gort and Tuam, obviously not realising that it's continuation of existing M18 and fact that it's part of overall Cork <-> Sligo route.


  • #1034
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    dubhthach wrote: »
    It's funny listening to the radio this morning how people don't see the big picture. Lots of people saying why do we need a motorway between Gort and Tuam, obviously not realising that it's continuation of existing M18 and fact that it's part of overall Cork <-> Sligo route.

    Next they'll be saying that we don't need ARC because there are no jobs out there. Laughing I pulled up the jobs in Galway on Irishjobs to shut up a narky Dub.

    They don't seem to realise that if we can move industry out of Dublin it has the capacity to improve their (Dubs) standard of living.


  • #1035
    Irish and Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Irish and Proud


    dubhthach wrote: »
    It's funny listening to the radio this morning how people don't see the big picture. Lots of people saying why do we need a motorway between Gort and Tuam, obviously not realising that it's continuation of existing M18 and fact that it's part of overall Cork <-> Sligo route.

    That's just bar stool talk on the radio IMO... yawn, yawn, yawn...


  • #1036
    dubhthach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    Irish and Proud wrote: »
    That's just bar stool talk on the radio IMO... yawn, yawn, yawn...

    you would expect more from a current affairs news program though wouldn't you?


  • #1037
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    Full text of the speech here: http://per.gov.ie/2012/07/17/speech-by-minister-brendan-howlin-td-government-infrastructure-stimulus/

    Selected text:
    We will invest in national roads in order to remove bottlenecks and complete the motorway network. Phase 1 of our PPP Programme will see delivery of the N17/N18 Gort to Tuam, the M11 Gorey to Enniscorthy and the N25 New Ross Bypass. A further priority transport project for the Government is the Galway city bypass. This is on hold at the moment pending the outcome of legal proceedings. Depending on the outcome of those proceedings it would be hoped to progress it as an additional PPP project.
    In the Roads sector, the N17/N18 Gort to Tuam will commence in 2013
    PPP’s
    Delivering these projects via PPP will allow us to spread the cost of financing the infrastructure over the lifetime of the asset while still being able to fully utilise that asset. As a consequence of this financial structure the impact of the project on the General Government Balance can be spread over the life of the stream of unitary payments rather than up-front over the immediate construction period.

    In order to ensure that Value for Money is secured, PPPs are subject to a series of Value for Money tests including a comparison with the cost of procuring the project traditionally, that is through Exchequer funding.

    We must also ensure that these projects are affordable. The State must pay for these projects through an annual unitary payment to the PPP company over an extended period (usually 20-25 years). It is envisaged that annual unitary payments associated with projects identified for delivery in Phase 1 will be around €140 million. However, unitary payments are linked to performance of the asset over its lifetime and the State will only make payments where the asset is delivered in line with the terms of the contract. Projects will be monitored closely to ensure that they meet all requirements as set out in the project contract.
    That structure will involve a combination of funding from a number of sources including our domestic banks, the EIB and the National Pension Reserve Fund.
    The NPRF will also be an important investor in this Phase 1 PPP programme and will decide on investment in individual projects in accordance with its commercial investment mandate

    Now to settle down and wait for the contract signing (again).


  • #1038
    westtip
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    Well done to the Government for giving us some good news at last, it can't have been easy inheriting the mess they did - the N17/18 Tuam - Gort Road a long time in the waiting but it is fantastic to hear it is going to happen under this new stimulus package. Its great news for the West of Ireland and will probably be delivered just in time for the next election. Nothing like a few motorways opening in the last years of a government to give everyone a feel good fact. Well done for making sure this gets back on the agenda - the people of Claregalway, Tuam etc will be delighted.


  • #1039
    serfboard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,720 ✭✭✭serfboard


    serfboard wrote: »
    Was listening to Galway Bay FM this morning and both Paul Connaughton and Colm Keaveney were on saying it was going to go ahead, so you can take it that it is going to go ahead.
    the keen edge wrote: »
    Ah well if the politicians said so.........:pac:
    antoobrien wrote: »
    This has been going on for over 3 years I've seen plenty of false dawns. I've been watching the coverage of this from the GCOB perspective (they've said that it's top of the pile but it's still stuck in ECJ so this one must be next), so all I'm saying is:

    don't jinx it.
    My point was simple - it was obvious that these politicians had been told what was going to be announced. And so it proved ...


  • #1040
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    serfboard wrote: »
    My point was simple - it was obvious that these politicians had been told what was going to be announced. And so it proved ...

    You might notice we still don't have a contract signed.

    What has actually changed with the announcement - it's funded. We still had the date of 2013 start, EIB funding was announced two years ago etc.

    I've been following this for a long time - I'll believe it when I see the fences going up at Rathmorrisey and points north & south.


  • #1041
    serfboard
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,720 ✭✭✭serfboard


    antoobrien wrote: »
    You might notice we still don't have a contract signed.

    What has actually changed with the announcement - it's funded. We still had the date of 2013 start, EIB funding was announced two years ago etc.
    I don't disagree. But each announcement seems to take us a little bit closer :)
    antoobrien wrote: »
    I've been following this for a long time - I'll believe it when I see the fences going up at Rathmorrisey and points north & south.
    FYI, there is some fencing up around Tuam (and has been for around four years) and at the proposed Kiltiernan junction (for at least a year now, if not more).


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  • #1042
    gally74
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,997 ✭✭✭gally74


    I'm stoked!


  • #1043
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    antoobrien wrote: »
    I've been following this for a long time - I'll believe it when I see the fences going up at Rathmorrisey and points north & south.
    The icing would be a redesigned junction at Rathmorrisey!


  • #1044
    the keen edge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,533 ✭✭✭the keen edge


    serfboard wrote: »
    My point was simple - it was obvious that these politicians had been told what was going to be announced. And so it proved ...

    Not knocking the announcement.

    I live by an accident black spot on the N18. Over 20 years ago I can recall as a young fella watching with interest county council Engineers surveying the road: 12 years ago receiving glossy brochures through the door illustrating preferred and alternative routes of the proposed M18(as its now called). And many, many promises since then.

    So untill the day comes when joining the N18 doesn't entail having to exit my driveway with the planning and velocity of a NASA shuttle launch, I'll reserve my celebrations for the much talked about M18!


  • #1045
    irishgeo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,527 ✭✭✭irishgeo


    anyone got a map of the project and the tuam bypass bit.


  • #1046
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    irishgeo wrote: »
    anyone got a map of the project and the tuam bypass bit.


    Project information here:
    http://www.galway.ie/en/Services/RoadsTransportation/RoadProjects/N17N18GorttoTuamScheme/

    Tuam bypass map: http://www.galway.ie/en/media/Overall%20Scheme.pdf


  • #1047
    KevR
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,110 ✭✭✭KevR


    Anymore news of whether Tuam - Gort will have a toll or not?


  • #1048
    antoobrien
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    KevR wrote: »
    Anymore news of whether Tuam - Gort will have a toll or not?

    Not mentioned and not in the current project plan (therefore planning changes would be required).


  • #1049
    Brentmeister
    Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭Brentmeister


    if the construction starts next year, would it be fair to presume the gort-galway section will open first, maybe late 2014?


  • #1050
    glineli
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,098 ✭✭✭glineli


    But do we not still have the problem that whoever wins the retender has to raise private capital or is this where the EIB cash comes in?


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  • #1051
    westtip
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,282 ✭✭✭westtip


    I don't think they would have made such a song and dance about this announcment if they weren't sure of the sums and where the money was coming from and the viability of pushing the buttons to get them moving - these projects announced today are the start of the next election campaign - People love new roads it makes a real difference to their lives and if they can be delivered before the next election they will deliver seats. This N17/18 project is the best news for the West for donkeys years - lets just hope it is delivered this time.


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