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National Postcodes to be introduced

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    #8402
    ukoda
    Registered Users Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭ukoda


    monkeynuz wrote: »
    We live inside the boundary of town land A they have assigned us town land B all of our neighbours in town land A tell us we are also in town land A including the postmaster who has lived in the area all his life.

    It doesn't matter ultimately I know, just niggles me a bit.

    I can imagine someone in a town or city who has been assigned the wrong area might not be too happy either.

    The only point im making is that the mistake doesn't come from the postcode, it comes form An Posts database, have you reported the error? I have heard of addresses being amended when people raise it with An Post, or raise with eircode who might pass it to An Post, like I said, they use the An Post database, I don't think they've any authority to change it, but they may have a process to pass on errors flagged


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    #8403
    monkeynuz
    Registered Users Posts: 2,115 ✭✭✭monkeynuz


    ukoda wrote: »
    The only point im making is that the mistake doesn't come from the postcode, it comes form An Posts database, have you reported the error? I have heard of addresses being amended when people raise it with An Post, or raise with eircode who might pass it to An Post, like I said, they use the An Post database, I don't think they've any authority to change it, but they may have a process to pass on errors flagged

    Eircode couldn't give a monkeys but I was toying with the idea of contacting
    An post. I was just makin a comment in the thread about the postcode system.


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    #8404
    ukoda
    Registered Users Posts: 2,084 ✭✭✭ukoda


    monkeynuz wrote: »
    Eircode couldn't give a monkeys but I was toying with the idea of contacting
    An post. I was just makin a comment in the thread about the postcode system.

    So you raised it with eircode and they didn't do anything?

    Raise it with geodirectory


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    #8405
    monkeynuz
    Registered Users Posts: 2,115 ✭✭✭monkeynuz


    ukoda wrote: »
    So you raised it with eircode and they didn't do anything?

    Raise it with geodirectory

    I might do, like I say it was more just a niggle that I thought I'd share on here, just seems a bit daft that errors are made.


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    #8406
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,793 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Nichard Dixon wrote: »
    Surely under the data protection act you have the right to have accurate information stored about you, including your address?

    You're assuming that your personal preference for what you consider your address is "accurate". If you're going to talk about accuracy in Irish addressing, you have to have canonical addresses, and the closest we've got to those is Geodirectory.


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    #8407
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,440 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    monkeynuz wrote: »
    I might do, like I say it was more just a niggle that I thought I'd share on here, just seems a bit daft that errors are made.
    It's not an error if that's the route post takes to your house.


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    #8408
    monkeynuz
    Registered Users Posts: 2,115 ✭✭✭monkeynuz


    TheChizler wrote: »
    It's not an error if that's the route post takes to your house.

    I don't understand your point


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    #8409
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,440 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    monkeynuz wrote: »
    I don't understand your point
    The postal address is the hierarchy in which post is sorted and delivered, generally: house, road, townland that is part of your postman's route, post town, county the post town is in. The only lines that might bear relation to your geographical address would be the house and road. This is what An Post use and would be useful for sending post. It's not necessarily what you would give when describing where you live.

    Unless this townland is totally wrong, as in say a county away, and your post is frequently missing, then you shouldn't have to worry about it.


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    #8410
    Bray Head
    Registered Users Posts: 894 ✭✭✭Bray Head


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    It was suggested that the Telecom Eireann STD codes were logically set out nationally and would have made an excellent basis for a postcode. For example, Cork would be 21xxxx and Galway 91xxxx etc. The exchanges were placed based on population so the density of the numbers reflects the population/housing density. Plus it allows for non-geographic postcodes (for addresses for the tax-man, HSE, etc.) - by using codes beginning with 0xxxx, and NI with codes beginning with 8xxxxx.

    A much better system which most people would recognise and remember. For most people the first 4 or 5 digits would match the first 4 or 5 digits of their phone number.

    But instead we got a gibberish system designed not to work unless you pay.

    I have no idea what landline numbers start with in the area where I live.

    I don't know anyone under 40 with a landline.


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    #8411
    monkeynuz
    Registered Users Posts: 2,115 ✭✭✭monkeynuz


    TheChizler wrote: »
    The postal address is the hierarchy in which post is sorted and delivered, generally: house, road, townland that is part of your postman's route, post town, county the post town is in. The only lines that might bear relation to your geographical address would be the house and road. This is what An Post use and would be useful for sending post. It's not necessarily what you would give when describing where you live.

    Unless this townland is totally wrong, as in say a county away, and your post is frequently missing, then you shouldn't have to worry about it.

    The thing is in our area there aren't any road names only town lands, so the address goes, house name, town land, parish, postal town.


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    #8412
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Upthread people poo pooohed my suggestion that gps was at the mercy of the military.


    gps is being jammed in Scotland for military excercises
    http://www.mcofs.org.uk/news.asp?s=2&id=MCS-N11702&nc=Mountain%20Safety


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    #8413
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,448 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Bray Head wrote: »
    I have no idea what landline numbers start with in the area where I live.

    I don't know anyone under 40 with a landline.

    You would soon learn. For example, for Bray, the normal telephone numbers start with 01 668 ****, so a post code as suggested would start 1668 **** and would start thus for Bray.

    It has the advantage of being purely numeric so easier for machine reading as only ten possibilities instead of 30 or so. It also is hierarchical, which means it can be abbreviated without loosing meaning.

    Most people have learnt the counties relating to the number plates.


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    #8414
    Alun
    Registered Users Posts: 21,436 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    You would soon learn. For example, for Bray, the normal telephone numbers start with 01 668 ****, so a post code as suggested would start 1668 **** and would start thus for Bray.
    There are many different ones for Bray, mine starts with 01 274, many start with 01 276 or 01 286 too. I don't know if there's any geographical significance to them, or if they just allocated new ones when the numbers ran out.

    01 668 is a Dublin 4 number I think,


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    #8415
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,440 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    monkeynuz wrote: »
    The thing is in our area there aren't any road names only town lands, so the address goes, house name, town land, parish, postal town.
    It's a rough guide, but my point was explaining the difference between your geographic townland and postal townland.


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    #8416
    TheChizler
    Registered Users Posts: 9,440 ✭✭✭TheChizler


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    Upthread people poo pooohed my suggestion that gps was at the mercy of the military.


    gps is being jammed in Scotland for military excercises
    http://www.mcofs.org.uk/news.asp?s=2&id=MCS-N11702&nc=Mountain%20Safety
    I'm not sure what you said in the post, but if it was that the US can just switch it off then this is different. Jamming is generally relatively localized. Anyone with a knowledge of RF circuits can make their own civilian GPS jammer.


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    #8417
    Bray Head
    Registered Users Posts: 894 ✭✭✭Bray Head


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    You would soon learn. For example, for Bray, the normal telephone numbers start with 01 668 ****, so a post code as suggested would start 1668 **** and would start thus for Bray.

    It has the advantage of being purely numeric so easier for machine reading as only ten possibilities instead of 30 or so. It also is hierarchical, which means it can be abbreviated without loosing meaning.

    Most people have learnt the counties relating to the number plates.

    Nope. In Bray, numbers tend to start with 01286 or 01282.

    I think your point is somewhat undermined by your imperfect recall on this!


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    #8418
    MBSnr
    Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭MBSnr


    Saw this
    https://twitter.com/autoaddress/status/652525524695318528


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    #8419
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,448 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Alun wrote: »
    There are many different ones for Bray, mine starts with 01 274, many start with 01 276 or 01 286 too. I don't know if there's any geographical significance to them, or if they just allocated new ones when the numbers ran out.

    01 668 is a Dublin 4 number I think,

    My mistake. Bray is 01 268 ****. A brainstorm.

    When the numbers fill up, they add extra ones at the start, and then extend in the middle. Telephone numbers go from 1 2 .... 9 0, while computer numbers go 0 1 2 ,,, 9 which is something to remember.

    Obviously, they would use a more rational system if starting again because they started adding digits at the front, and that allowed an extension in the middle. For example, they added a 2 at the front of S. Dublin numbers, and added a 6 in front of more central numbers, so the southern half of Ballsbridge became 01-26*** and the more northerly part became 01-66***. Now there is more freedom with numbers, so they are not so tied geographically.

    A postcode based on this would be more logical.


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    #8420
    moyners
    Registered Users Posts: 315 ✭✭moyners


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    You're assuming that your personal preference for what you consider your address is "accurate". If you're going to talk about accuracy in Irish addressing, you have to have canonical addresses, and the closest we've got to those is Geodirectory.
    TheChizler wrote: »
    It's not an error if that's the route post takes to your house.
    monkeynuz wrote: »
    We live inside the boundary of town land A they have assigned us town land B all of our neighbours in town land A tell us we are also in town land A including the postmaster who has lived in the area all his life.

    It doesn't matter ultimately I know, just niggles me a bit.

    I can imagine someone in a town or city who has been assigned the wrong area might not be too happy either.

    Like some other posters have mentioned - An Post frankly don't care if you're within the boundaries or not. They can assign any address they want according to their delivery routing. Eircode had the misfortune to draw people's attention what An Post regarded as their postal address.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/high-court-rules-post-can-be-delivered-only-to-postal-address-28817426.html


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    #8421
    marmurr1916
    Registered Users Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭marmurr1916


    Further evidence of the need for eircodes to be added to driving licence and vehicle registration records:
    Speeding charge dropped after court hears five people had same name as accused
    John Boyce says 22 families share his surname in single Donegal townland

    First published:
    Wed, Oct 14, 2015, 15:51

    Stephen Maguire
    A man had a speeding charge against him dropped after telling a judge that there are 22 families in the same Co Donegal townland as him with the same surname.

    The man, John Boyce, appeared at Letterkenny District Court in Co Donegal after being detected by a Go Safe speed camera van.

    The court was told that Mr Boyce was registered doing 71km/h in a 60km/h zone on April 13th last at Maghernanan, Letterkenny.

    However the accused man, from Upper Tullagh, Carrigart, said he had never received a summons to pay the fine.

    The first he heard abut the court case was when gardaí came calling to his house, the man said.

    He told Judge Alan Mitchell there was an issue with letters sometimes getting mixed up in the area as there were 22 families with the same surname as him living in the same townland.

    To make matters even more complicated, up to five different people also had the same first name as him .

    Judge Mitchell said he was left with no option but to struck out the charge.

    The case was amongst a number of speeding summonses which were struck out at the court after people complained that they did not receive letters about the fines in the post.

    Judge Mitchell asked several people to swear an oath on the bible that they did not receive the summonses. He then dismissed all the cases.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/speeding-charge-dropped-after-court-hears-five-people-had-same-name-as-accused-1.2391779


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    #8422
    MBSnr
    Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭MBSnr


    marmurr1916 wrote: »
    Further evidence of the need for eircodes to be added to driving licence and vehicle registration records:



    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/speeding-charge-dropped-after-court-hears-five-people-had-same-name-as-accused-1.2391779

    But who delivers the summons? If it's An Post, who aren't using them by all accounts, how does this help ensure it gets to the correct house?


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    #8423
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,793 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Man, that meme about An Post not using eircodes just won't die.


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    #8424
    marmurr1916
    Registered Users Posts: 2,091 ✭✭✭marmurr1916


    MBSnr wrote: »
    But who delivers the summons? If it's An Post, who aren't using them by all accounts, how does this help ensure it gets to the correct house?

    By all accounts? Credible source please...

    In any case, it's up to the courts or AGS to address the letters, not An Post. If the courts/AGS had access to a database of driving licences and car registrations linked to eircodes it would be possible to avoid the kind of situations outlined in the Irish Times article whereby some summons weren't delivered to the correct addresses because they were addressed without any means of uniquely identifying the correct address linked to the driver/owner of the car being summonsed.


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    #8425
    MBSnr
    Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭MBSnr


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Man, that meme about An Post not using eircodes just won't die.


    Right....Can the local postie correctly identify the house based on the Eircode only, if the names and townlands are as the article says, common and duplicated in the area? Please do explain.


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    #8426
    MBSnr
    Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭MBSnr


    marmurr1916 wrote: »
    By all accounts? Credible source please...

    How is the postie looking up Eircode? Not with a Sat Nav or Google maps. Do they use their own smart phone? I fail to see how they would distinguish between multiple named individuals in a townland with the code on the letter.


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    #8427
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,793 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    MBSnr wrote: »
    Right....Can the local postie correctly identify the house based on the Eircode only, if the names and townlands are as the article says, common and duplicated in the area? Please do explain.
    I don't know. What does that have to do with your assertion that An Post don't use Eircodes?


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    #8428
    MBSnr
    Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭MBSnr


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    I don't know. What does that have to do with your assertion that An Post don't use Eircodes?

    They don't in my example. They may however use them elsewhere. Trying to nitpick when I genuinely asked with respect to a posted article smacks of defend at all costs.


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    #8429
    MBSnr
    Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭MBSnr


    marmurr1916 wrote: »
    By all accounts? Credible source please...

    In any case, it's up to the courts or AGS to address tthe letters, not An Post. If the courts/AGS had access to a database of driving licences and car registrations linked to eircodes it would be possible to avoid the kind of situations outlined in the Irish Times article whereby some summons weren't delivered to the correct addresses because they were addressed without any means of uniquely identifying the correct address linked to the driver/owner of the car being summonsed.

    You edited after I quoted. I agree Eircode makes sense in this instance. My question is how would it have stopped the exact same thing happening? My understanding is that An Post do not have devices in their vehicles capable of taking a code to a mapped location. So if Eircodes appeared tomorrow on all the driver reg/lic systems, the same failed delivery issue could occur right?


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    #8430
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,793 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    MBSnr wrote: »
    They don't in my example. They may however use them elsewhere. Trying to nitpick when I genuinely asked with respect to a posted article smacks of defend at all costs.

    You said An Post don't use Eircodes. If you meant that postal carriers don't use Eircodes to identify otherwise non-unique addresses, maybe you should have said so.

    As it is, I don't know whether or how they do or don't use them, so I'm not going to blithely assert without evidence that they do or don't.


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    #8431
    MBSnr
    Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭MBSnr


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    You said An Post don't use Eircodes. If you meant that postal carriers don't use Eircodes to identify otherwise non-unique addresses, maybe you should have said so.

    As it is, I don't know whether or how they do or don't use them, so I'm not going to blithely assert without evidence that they do or don't.

    Nitpicking again. There's a meme for that I'm sure going back to your older post..


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