Is it self defeatist to say that some men are meant to be alone??‏

astonaidan · 13-09-2014 3:34am

EdenHazard wrote: »

I wish looks were everything, I have a nice but maybe 'boring' personality for girls. Kinda annoying seeing ugly guys with status get girls but what can you do? Least I can say I'm good looking All I can say is Tinder is a godsend, it eliminates status and puts all the power in looks.

Ah now, I get away with a awful lot because Im goodlooking when it comes to girls, Ive had lads saying they would get slapped for things I say, then I smile and girls just get giggly :cool:
Dont know why but ugly guys getting the girl never bothered me, all I think is fair play to them, my thing is I can most girls, unless I actually like her then I flirt with her for months and never make the move

If I just want to hook up its like scoring an open goal:o:confused:

EdenHazard · 13-09-2014 3:47am

Yeah that's true, but I don't get annoyed by what you would maybe classify as typically ugly guys, what I mean is ugly south county dublin rugby players with rotten faces(no homo) but because they were on the junior cup team 7 years ago and pump themselves with creo it makes them 'hot' Although I guess this is just a certain type of girl who is like that.

Least you can flirt, LOL the last girl I was seeing would be like to me 'you have such good game'........I actually met her on Tinder, and all I said to her to initiate a convo was hey to which she replied 'you are extremely good looking' My flirting consisted of the odd wink face :P Tough life huh?

But yeah I've had 2 'sort of' relationships, pretty fleeting. I dunno what it is but Im defo the type of guy who ends up alone. I just struggle to create a real bond. Those 2 relationships ended in the exact same way, the girls deciding they were still 'in love' with their ex's lol. It's my speciality.

astonaidan · 13-09-2014 5:00am

EdenHazard wrote: »

Yeah that's true, but I don't get annoyed by what you would maybe classify as typically ugly guys, what I mean is ugly south county dublin rugby players with rotten faces(no homo) but because they were on the junior cup team 7 years ago and pump themselves with creo it makes them 'hot' Although I guess this is just a certain type of girl who is like that.

Least you can flirt, LOL the last girl I was seeing would be like to me 'you have such good game'........I actually met her on Tinder, and all I said to her to initiate a convo was hey to which she replied 'you are extremely good looking' My flirting consisted of the odd wink face :P Tough life huh?

But yeah I've had 2 'sort of' relationships, pretty fleeting. I dunno what it is but Im defo the type of guy who ends up alone. I just struggle to create a real bond. Those 2 relationships ended in the exact same way, the girls deciding they were still 'in love' with their ex's lol. It's my speciality.

Ah I know the type, not what Id consider ugly, just crap personalities. Couldnt be happier when any the less attractive guys get the good looking girl they are after, love a underdog story.
Hahah not sure I can flirt, I demand they come help me on the bog before they think they can start throwing hungry eyes at me, then again maybe I am a big romantic :pac:

BeerBoobs · 13-09-2014 5:30am

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

I'm just beginning to wonder about this because I've recently turned 28 (so I'm not exactly a kid anymore) and I've never been in a relationship, never kissed a girl, and and yes not surprisingly I'm still a virgin LOL. And whats more depressing is that I've never been remotely close in actually having any of those experiences!

If I am being hoenst I've been plagued with all sorts of social problems throughout my teenage years and adult life, social anxiety (putting people off me as if I smell of B.O.) which lead to me socially avoiding people (I felt I was so unappealing to people I felt I had no choice) and so a viscous cycle had then ensured. This continued throughout school and university to the point where I snapped and fell into deep depression and few years back (extremely low self esteem) I attempted suicide.

I got help though with therapy and CBT (I used to post in the depression thread in AH and people there were a great help!), so I'm ok now, I'm improving aspects of my life. But I've still not yet improved aspects of my social life greatly in any real way. Sure I'm not as socially anxious, and certainly not socially avoidant, but I still don't have any real friends. I get the impression I'm just not that appealing as a person and perhaps its the way its meant to be.

I mean in the 40 year old virgin, he at least he had a happy ending, unless I went to an escort, there's every chance I'm probably going to die this way! :eek:

Is it too self defeatist to suggest that some men, whether they like it or not, are destined to be alone for the rest of their lives? Is it too unrealistic for some us to contemplate a relationship?

I can definitely relate. I suffer from S.A.D also.

It's a real b*tch and causes intimacy issues as well as the awkwardness, quietness and avoidance.

CBT didn't work for me when I tried it. I even felt awkward with the questions being asked by the psycho analyst.

Thankfully I am not a virgin though, having amassed a massive total of 5 sexual partners in my 27 year existence. However the last being when I was 21; so It's been a long looooong time.

Nothing wrong with being one though. There's also nothing wrong with seeking sexual gratification from (ahem) people in certain professions

That's why me and my cousin are going on a sex tour next year

Is that something I should openly admit anonymously on the internet? lol.

Meh!

Classicporter · 13-09-2014 8:53am

kiffer wrote: »

Yeah, and spiders don't bother me at all... and I make sure to tell arachnophobic people that all the time, works a treat they all say "why didn't I think of that, just don't let it bother me".

When did I tell people "just don't let it bother you"?

Classicporter · 13-09-2014 8:57am

paddy1990 wrote: »

Ramseys money and fame might have something to do with it?

If you can show me several ugly men with no money or fame with really attractive girlfriends i will listen.

Stories about "this guy i know" dont count.

Ryan Turbridy has money and fame, can you honestly not see why Gordon Ramsey'so personality attracts so many women?

Why don't so many women fantasise about Ryan Turbidy?

The reason is that it is his personality that is a turn off, Gordon Ramsey'so personality turns many women on.

catallus · 13-09-2014 9:01am

Omfg, what self respecting woman wants to get with Ramsey?

Daveysil15 · 13-09-2014 9:22am

paddy1990 wrote: »

The whole "it's all your fault" mentality is the one I take biggest issue with.

paddy1990 wrote: »

But it's far too optimistic to say that they are guaranteed success if they do that and it's downright wrong, and in my opinion, appalling, to blame them for a lack of success if it doesn't happen, because at the end of the day, women are not machines and if she is doesn't find the guy attractive in the slightest, there is no configuration of buttons to press to make it happen.

Despite your previous posts, I have to say I'm in complete agreement with this. It's usually the men that are blamed too. If a woman has been single for a long time you'll normally hear the, "Ahh you're lovely, the right guy will come along." Or "how are you still single?" something along those lines. The onus is generally on men to make a change.

Now I know both genders can make more of an effort with their appearance, (actually there's probably more pressure on women in that regard), but women aren't been asked to change aspects of their personality to attract the opposite sex. Some guys are naturally introverted or don't have the gift of the gab, but that's not something that's easily changed. You can go to the gym, dress well and get out there and make an effort, but your personality is who you are.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo · 13-09-2014 9:34am

catallus wrote: »

Omfg, what self respecting woman wants to get with Ramsey?

A guy who could have made it as a professional footballer, who runs Michelin standard restaurants, writes books, has all his hair, seems fit and healthy and has millions in the bank is a serious catch to a hell of a lot of women in all fairness.

Or does someone being a 'nice guy' make a better catch?

Classicporter · 13-09-2014 9:39am

Daveysil15 wrote: »

Despite your previous posts, I have to say I'm in complete agreement with this. It's usually the men that are blamed too. If a woman has been single for a long time you'll normally hear the, "Ahh you're lovely, the right guy will come along." Or "how are you still single?" something along those lines. The onus is generally on men to make a change.

Now I know both genders can make more of an effort with their appearance, (actually there's probably more pressure on women in that regard), but women aren't been asked to change aspects of their personality to attract the opposite sex. Some guys are naturally introverted or don't have the gift of the gab, but that's not something that's easily changed. You can go to the gym, dress well and get out there and make an effort, but your personality is who you are.

I think it'should pointless "blaming" people. But unless you are extremely ugly or suffer from asperger'sI believe a man can become very good ato attracting women if he has the determination, will power and a good mentor or mentors to guide him through the learning curve. Within a year of consistent practice you can get much better at attracting women and seducing women.

Daveysil15 · 13-09-2014 10:13am

Classicporter wrote: »

I think it'should pointless "blaming" people. But unless you are extremely ugly or suffer from asperger'sI believe a man can become very good ato attracting women if he has the determination, will power and a good mentor or mentors to guide him through the learning curve. Within a year of consistent practice you can get much better at attracting women and seducing women.

Ohh of course you can get better, and I think people should always try and improve themselves, but if it doesn't work out its not necessarily the fault of the individual. That's the one point made by paddy that I do agree with.

I know a fella who wouldn't exactly be blessed in the looks department but lord does he try. He's funny, outgoing and approaches a lot of women but never has any success. I've been out drinking with him a few times and I can't say he's doing anything 'wrong' as such. It's just the women don't find him attractive.

TheBeardedLady · 13-09-2014 10:59am

macplato wrote: »

I was 15 years old, when I met the first person who made this incredible transformation I mentioned in my previous post. We were in the same year in high school, and lived not too far away from each other. She struggled in school really badly. She was socially awkward, somewhat eccentric, and because of that often laughed at. She was often described as ugly, the left side of her body didn't seem to match the right side, and she was large and boney.

She struggled so badly, her mother wanted to remove her from the school, and transfer her to some more "appropriate" educational facility. At this point the girl decided to take her own life. Her attempt was unsuccessful, and she experienced a lot of shaming and rejection from her family because of "what she put them through". It was at this point that she realised she was completely alone in this world. She was too scared to make another unsuccessful suicide attempt, even though she desperately wanted to die, so instead, she decided to "show them".

She started studying with all her might. At the end of that year, she was right at the top of the class (top 5, I think). French, English and History - subjects that she was absolutely hopeless at before, were now her strongest ones. She was still viewed as ugly and weird, but she didn't care, she was strong now, because she decided to be strong. And bhoy was she beautiful at that!

We became friends around that time. I found out she had a secret passion - ballet. She never trained to be a dancer, and at 15 she clearly missed the boat on that. But again, she didn't care. She was ashamed of having this passion before, with her curiously looking body, and all, but not anymore. She found a dance school, and after taking private lessons for a few months, she was allowed to join the group. I don't remember how long it took, not longer than 2-3 years though, and she handed me tickets to one of the largest opera houses in the country - for her first performance. It was a minor role, and she made a noticeable mistake towards the end of the show, but again - she didn't care, she just kept on going. After high school, she got accepted to the most prominent dance college in the whole country - with her ugly face, mismatched sides of her body, huge feet and absolutely irresistible personality. She got married and created a family too.

Yes, I accept that often you have to hit the rock bottom, to bounce up. God knows I had to hit it a few times myself, to finally get the message that I'm in charge of my life. The thing is, many people don't take enough risks to even give themselves a chance to hit that rock bottom - they are too scared of the pain. This is where courage comes in - if life didn't hurt, if it wasn't scary, there would be no need for it. Anyone with a bit of life experience knows, that there is hidden value in pain, but if someone is not willing to be brave, to take risks, to fall, to fall apart, then they can hardly expect to harness that value - to learn who they are, and what they are made of. They can hardly learn the elusive lesson of self-respect and self-admiration - for putting themselves and their lives back together - if they never allowed themselves to fall apart in the first place.

Not to dismiss everything you've written (she sounds brilliant), but where's the link to sexual attraction here?

TheBeardedLady · 13-09-2014 11:18am

Daveysil15 wrote: »

Despite your previous posts, I have to say I'm in complete agreement with this. It's usually the men that are blamed too. If a woman has been single for a long time you'll normally hear the, "Ahh you're lovely, the right guy will come along." Or "how are you still single?" something along those lines. The onus is generally on men to make a change.

Now I know both genders can make more of an effort with their appearance, (actually there's probably more pressure on women in that regard), but women aren't been asked to change aspects of their personality to attract the opposite sex. Some guys are naturally introverted or don't have the gift of the gab, but that's not something that's easily changed. You can go to the gym, dress well and get out there and make an effort, but your personality is who you are.

I see what you're saying here but tbh, I think a lot of it has to do with women not being totally honest with other women all the time. We don't talk to our female friends like men talk among each other with "tough love" and slagging them off for being a big weirdo who can't get a girlfriend (for example). Men can be very harsh with each other and it's we'd never dream of saying to each other (although we think it). I might repeat all the platitudes about, "Ah you're lovely, the right guy might come along" but I'm also thinking, though not verbalising, "...if you got rid of that horrible attitude you have every time any man even says so much as 'hello' to you".

Men, imo, are probably more helpful to each other on this front and more honest. Sometimes I find myself repeating those platitudes to avoid offending a person and I hate myself for it.

And of course women have to "change" aspects of themselves to attract men beyond a one night stand (which, I'll wager, most women want). Even in my relationship there were things I had to work on for it to work. Only difference was I had to figure it out for myself without the honest and often brutal advice from friends that a lot of men might have.

We might make it look easy but believe me, there's probably as many single women out there as men who are struggling to find someone for whatever reason.

Classicporter · 13-09-2014 11:32am

Daveysil15 wrote: »

Ohh of course you can get better, and I think people should always try and improve themselves, but if it doesn't work out its not necessarily the fault of the individual. That's the one point made by paddy that I do agree with.

I know a fella who wouldn't exactly be blessed in the looks department but lord does he try. He's funny, outgoing and approaches a lot of women but never has any success. I've been out drinking with him a few times and I can't say he's doing anything 'wrong' as such. It's just the women don't find him attractive.

More than likely he is doing something "wrong" so to speak. It can be very subtle. I agree wholeheartedly that blaming him is pointless as it can be very difficult to know what you're doing wrong. He could be doing something as simple as not being comfortable with pauses in the conversation, which he fills with nervous laughter. There are so many subtle factors that can "unattract" women.

macplato · 13-09-2014 11:50am

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

Not to dismiss everything you've written (she sounds brilliant), but where's the link to sexual attraction here?

Well, to me, being sexually attractive is a by-product of having strong self-belief, self confidence, passion and drive. The girl, from a complete recluse, with no friends, managed to become a successful, passionate woman with dedicated mates and a man who loved her. This is what she wanted, and it's what she got. She'd always been highly introverted, she wouldn't even have any interest in loads of men desiring and chasing after her.

By the way, I think this is the case for most introverts - we don't want too much attention from the opposite sex, because rejecting other people is no fun at all; being objectified, which happens a lot to good-looking people, doesn't feel good either. Someone with no experience may think they would love a lot of attention, but if they got it, they would find all the logistics of being popular very difficult to cope with! Most of us want someone to share our lives with, a loyal, interesting, sexy playmate. So thinking that just because someone isn't good-looking, and isn't "popular with the ladies" - thinking that he has to spend the rest of his life by himself, feels just so wrong to me. All most of us want is for one special person we find attractive, to find us attractive back, and considering that the "look alike effect" is a very real thing, there is no reason to think that finding that person is impossible.

A while ago I watched some kind of a documentary, I have no idea what it was about, but part of it stuck in my mind. At some point they interviewed (I hate to say it) a very (very) plain looking lady, who recently got married. She talked a bit about her new husband, and at the end she said: "and he is so handsome!" after which she giggled. Then they showed the "handsome" husband, and I couldn't help but smile - they looked like siblings. To most people they appeared us ugly, but they saw themselves in each other, and that's why they fell in love! If they didn't have a good level of self-acceptance, chances are they would find each other repulsive. But because they both accepted and liked themselves, they were able to perceive someone who looked like them as totally irresistible!

paddy1990 · 13-09-2014 12:22pm

Classicporter wrote: »

Ryan Turbridy has money and fame, can you honestly not see why Gordon Ramsey'so personality attracts so many women?

Why don't so many women fantasise about Ryan Turbidy?

The reason is that it is his personality that is a turn off, Gordon Ramsey'so personality turns many women on.

Tubridi has/had a very decent girlfriend much younger than him

Like I said, point out the NON famous/rich/high status old ugly guys with beautiful girlfriends....

eh, you can't can you?

paddy1990 · 13-09-2014 12:24pm

Classicporter wrote: »

More than likely he is doing something "wrong" so to speak. It can be very subtle. I agree wholeheartedly that blaming him is pointless as it can be very difficult to know what you're doing wrong. He could be doing something as simple as not being comfortable with pauses in the conversation, which he fills with nervous laughter. There are so many subtle factors that can "unattract" women.

You've been badly mindf*cked by the PUA stuff you've inhaled.

Seriously, it's made you see socializing in a very weird way.

Women are not machines.

Classicporter · 13-09-2014 12:37pm

paddy1990 wrote: »

Tubridi has/had a very decent girlfriend much younger than him

Like I said, point out the NON famous/rich/high status old ugly guys with beautiful girlfriends....

eh, you can't can you?

I know loads of guys who are average or worse looking who regularly bed very attractive women. One guy in particular looks like a homeless man. Doesn't have any problem hooking up with beautiful women.

Why do so many more women fantasise about Gordon Ramsey compared to Ryan Tubridy?

Personality is the answer.

Classicporter · 13-09-2014 12:40pm

paddy1990 wrote: »

You've been badly mindf*cked by the PUA stuff you've inhaled.

Seriously, it's made you see socializing in a very weird way.

Women are not machines.

Who said women are machines?

There are common traits that the vast majority of women are attracted to in varying ratios.

Daisy78 · 13-09-2014 2:41pm

Why do so many more women fantasise about Gordon Ramsey compared to Ryan Tubridy?

Personality is the answer.[/quote]

Give me Ryan over that other fella any day of the week. ...

13-09-2014 3:33pm

Classicporter wrote: »

Why do so many more women fantasise about Gordon Ramsey compared to Ryan Tubridy?

Personality is the answer.

Again, sounds like "women love bastards" to me.

Piliger · 13-09-2014 3:58pm

Karsini wrote: »

Again, sounds like "women love bastards" to me.

Not if they love Ramsey. Cool guy.

Daveysil15 · 13-09-2014 4:00pm

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

I see what you're saying here but tbh, I think a lot of it has to do with women not being totally honest with other women all the time. We don't talk to our female friends like men talk among each other with "tough love" and slagging them off for being a big weirdo who can't get a girlfriend (for example). Men can be very harsh with each other and it's we'd never dream of saying to each other (although we think it). I might repeat all the platitudes about, "Ah you're lovely, the right guy might come along" but I'm also thinking, though not verbalising, "...if you got rid of that horrible attitude you have every time any man even says so much as 'hello' to you".

Yeah that's a good point actually. I hadn't really thought of it that way. If a guy approaches a girl on a night out and gets rejected, he'll more than likely get slagged off by his mates. On the plus side, if he's successful, he's a fecking legend. Women seem to be more supportive of each other. It's the same when a person is going through a break up. As Tommy Tiernan said, when a girl has been dumped her mates will come over to her house and make her feel better. One girl will supply the Kleenex and chocolates, while the other buys her puppies on the internet.

I still think men are more expected to make a change if things aren't working out though. In a way its understandable too because its generally the men that make the first move. If he lacks confidence or the gift of the gab then its going to be a real challenge and that's something he can work on. Women on the other hand can still be successful with the opposite sex even if they're coy or introverted.

TheBeardedLady · 13-09-2014 5:05pm

Daveysil15 wrote: »

I still think men are more expected to make a change if things aren't working out though. In a way its understandable too because its generally the men that make the first move. If he lacks confidence or the gift of the gab then its going to be a real challenge and that's something he can work on. Women on the other hand can still be successful with the opposite sex even if they're coy or introverted.

Making the first move is one thing and yes, that's generally down to the man but women still have to do plenty to hold a man's attention. If a woman looked fantastic but was a complete dry ****e or bitchy or boring, would you continue talking to her? Or a woman with zero confidence in herself who can barely string a sentence together? You'd find that attractive?

Men, just like women, find attractive, confident people attractive. People who lack these traits in both genders struggle.

Perhaps many men put up with a lot more for a ride in that context and women don't but let's take it out of the club/pub context and onto the first date where two people are looking for something more. Do you really think women can get away with sitting there passively not making any effort? I would agree that perhaps introverted women get away with it more than men but other traits are valued in women that aren't in men.

I bet I'm just as nervous as men on first dates and wondering whether they'll like me or not. I felt I had to be interesting, funny, happy, smiley, "normal" (haha) etc. We have Cosmopolitan telling us what we should and shouldn't do on dates to "Get that man", for example.

I think many men have an idea that we don't have to make the slightest effort beyond what we look like but if we're looking for more, then that's definitely not the case at all. If that was the case, they're would be so many single women struggling to find someone.

I think men presume it's easy because perhaps it's easy enough for us to get a one night stand but as I said before, I'd wager most women don't want just that.

TheBeardedLady · 13-09-2014 5:17pm

Daveysil15 wrote: »

Yeah that's a good point actually. I hadn't really thought of it that way. If a guy approaches a girl on a night out and gets rejected, he'll more than likely get slagged off by his mates. On the plus side, if he's successful, he's a fecking legend. Women seem to be more supportive of each other. It's the same when a person is going through a break up. As Tommy Tiernan said, when a girl has been dumped her mates will come over to her house and make her feel better. One girl will supply the Kleenex and chocolates, while the other buys her puppies on the internet.

"Supportive", yes, but sometimes some home truths would be more helpful than a box of chocolates. I certainly would've appreciated some honest feedback in the day. Even on this thread you have some men giving practical advice to another man and not all of it is pleasant reading. A similar thread elsewhere on this forum would be full to the brim of cliches and platitudes for fear of hurting feelings. It's not that they don't think the woman should make changes, it's just that from my experience, women tend to be more "sensitive" to the truth...but it doesn't mean the friend is not thinking it.

Pug160 · 13-09-2014 5:33pm

No one should ever give up and say to themselves that they just don't have a certain intangible quality (or obvious quality for that matter) that they're never likely to have. It can take time but everyone can become better in all aspects of their life if they persevere and keep their head up. Some of you mentioned Canada and America and how much easier it can be there, and I agree that it probably is. But I've set myself a challenge to become successful at home first. To me, going somewhere else and doing well with the women would be like a kind of hollow victory if I knew I still wasn't great back home. By all means travel but don't run away somewhere else and brush your problems under the carpet. That's what I say. There are genuine examples of men who have turned it around - it's not some sort of legend.

TheBeardedLady · 13-09-2014 5:48pm

When people say "successful", do they mean scoring a one night stand?

Daveysil15 · 13-09-2014 5:51pm

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

Making the first move is one thing and yes, that's generally down to the man but women still have to do plenty to hold a man's attention. If a woman looked fantastic but was a complete dry ****e or bitchy or boring, would you continue talking to her? Or a woman with zero confidence in herself who can barely string a sentence together? You'd find that attractive?

Men, just like women, find attractive, confident people attractive. People who lack these traits in both genders struggle.

Perhaps many men put up with a lot more for a ride in that context and women don't but let's take it out of the club/pub context and onto the first date where two people are looking for something more. Do you really think women can get away with sitting there passively not making any effort? I would agree that perhaps introverted women get away with it more than men but other traits are valued in women that aren't in men.

I bet I'm just as nervous as men on first dates and wondering whether they'll like me or not. I felt I had to be interesting, funny, happy, smiley, "normal" (haha) etc. We have Cosmopolitan telling us what we should and shouldn't do on dates to "Get that man", for example.

I think many men have an idea that we don't have to make the slightest effort beyond what we look like but if we're looking for more, then that's definitely not the case at all. If that was the case, they're would be so many single women struggling to find someone.

I think men presume it's easy because perhaps it's easy enough for us to get a one night stand but as I said before, I'd wager most women don't want just that.

Probably if I thought a one night stand was on the cards, but not if I was looking for something more.

I never said women don't have to make any effort, but shyness is not as much of a hindrance for women as it is for men.

TheBeardedLady wrote: »

"Supportive", yes, but sometimes some home truths would be more helpful than a box of chocolates. I certainly would've appreciated some honest feedback in the day. Even on this thread you have some men giving practical advice to another man and not all of it is pleasant reading. A similar thread elsewhere on this forum would be full to the brim of cliches and platitudes for fear of hurting feelings. It's not that they don't think the woman should make changes, it's just that from my experience, women tend to be more "sensitive" to the truth...but it doesn't mean the friend is not thinking it.

No arguments there.

Pug160 wrote: »

No one should ever give up and say to themselves that they just don't have a certain intangible quality (or obvious quality for that matter) that they're never likely to have. It can take time but everyone can become better in all aspects of their life if they persevere and keep their head up. Some of you mentioned Canada and America and how much easier it can be there, and I agree that it probably is. But I've set myself a challenge to become successful at home first. To me, going somewhere else and doing well with the women would be like a kind of hollow victory if I knew I still wasn't great back home. By all means travel but don't run away somewhere else and brush your problems under the carpet. That's what I say. There are genuine examples of men who have turned it around - it's not some sort of legend.

Why would it be a hollow victory? It's not like you're cheating. It's just a different dating environment where you may have more options.

For me it was a realisation that I wasn't so bad after all. It's just that I had feck all options back home.

TheBeardedLady · 13-09-2014 6:10pm

Daveysil15 wrote: »

Probably if I thought a one night stand was on the cards, but not if I was looking for something more.

I never said women don't have to make any effort, but shyness is not as much of a hindrance for women as it is for men.

I'd agree with you that men often put up with a lot more for sex than women but again, not for a relationship. Just the way it goes, I suppose.

The title of the thread is about whether or not some men are meant to be alone and I would've gathered that the OP is ultimately looking for something more than a ONS (although happy to get that far for the time being). You're still alone after a ONS and often they only compound the existing problem for many people.

I believe it's more helpful LONG-TERM to get away from the PUA mindset of viewing women as passive beings to be conquered to get your rocks off for a night (get them off the pedestal) and instead view them as human therefore flawed and as potentially insecure/nervous as you are.

Classicporter · 13-09-2014 7:11pm

Daveysil15 wrote: »

Probably if I thought a one night stand was on the cards, but not if I was looking for something more.

I never said women don't have to make any effort, but shyness is not as much of a hindrance for women as it is for men.

No arguments there.

Why would it be a hollow victory? It's not like you're cheating. It's just a different dating environment where you may have more options.

For me it was a realisation that I wasn't so bad after all. It's just that I had feck all options back home.

It just means you'very avoided the underlying issues, you haven'the actually experienced growth and gained abilities or skills. You'very just gone to another environment where the your current abilities are adequate, you haven'the increased your abilities.

Is it self defeatist to say that some men are meant to be alone??‏

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