Daughter forced to believe in God

No one can be forced to believe in a god but they can be forced to appear to believe in a god

bajer101 wrote: »

Why? What would this achieve? I have addressed the issue with the Principal of the school, therefore the next time the situation will arise will be in her next school or if my daughter decides that she wishes to study Religion.

so what did the principal say?

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Indeed. It's a huperson rights issue.

I think you mean "huperchild".

Bongalongherb wrote: »

And now there is darkness. Let me shine some light on your comment.

Dear Watson, The proof is in the waffle/pudding do you not think ?. This greater being you speak of, why is it always associated with He as if this so-called God is a man of physical being ?. I'd recommend that you look deep into biology regarding the human body, it might shed some light on the word you say...Created, and what we are made up of.

If you have no proof to show regarding this God, then it will be on the back-burner for many years to come, or eternity.

RustyNut wrote: »

Indeed it might cause other curious kids to start asking awkward questions,is there really a god, why should I believe in her etc,start an intelligent discussion even.

Much better just tell them what they have to believe in and that there will be negative consequences if they dont, its the christian way.

Ha

Bongalongherb wrote: »

A bit of oil will coax these two together I'd say or a bit of fictional innuendo.

Don't forget, a person that has a spiritual nature, needs not for religion.

Is a spiritual nature like fermented apples?

lynski wrote: »

Or woman.

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

There was another non-RC child in the class which helped the discussion of what other people believe in - Catholics, Muslims, Bahai, Ancient Romans etc etc.

So no, you don't need a baptismal certificate to get into a RC national school. :rolleyes:

I've been getting the impression that there isn't *any* discussion of other beliefs. At least not in schools like the one the O.P's daughter attends.
If there is, that's great.

lazygal wrote: »

But Santa doesn't exist. We know Santa doesn't exist. How parents deal with that is not a matter for the school, its a matter for the parents, as my parents were told when a non catholic child told us there was no Santa. We plan on doing Santa, in a pretty low key way, and if our children were told Santa doesn't exist we'd deal with that ourselves. How is telling children God doesn't exist different from telling them Santa doesn't exist? Or there's no Easter Bunny or Tooth Fairy? And if you tell the school and the school says 'while the child is in school he or she is not allowed to say there is no God' what should a parent do then?

Sorry but how do we "know" Santa doesnt exist but we dont "know" God exists?
Its not different at all, that was my point. In a class of 7 year olds you cant allow one child to effectively teach the other children their beliefs, do you not see how thats exactly the thing you have a problem with?

Cabaal wrote: »

"Special needs"?

You seriously might want to choose your words much more wisely, this is special needs as far as the Dept Of Education is concerned - http://www.education.ie/en/The-Education-System/Special-Education/

A none belief in a supernatural invisible being isn't a "special need" or any form of disability, its a basic human right to believe in what you want to...or not as the case may be.

You might want to show some respect to the op and his daughter,



I went to school with somebody who didn't believe in Santa from a very young age....their parents were very very poor so they took the decision to tell them,

They never went around telling other students in a vindictive way....likely the same as the OP's 7 year old didn't do so either.

Did the school threaten them...no of course not, they'd be idiots if they had.
:rolleyes:

Special
pertaining or peculiar to a particular person, thing, instance, etc.; distinctive; unique:

Need
a requirement, necessary duty, or obligation:


The child has a need that, in the context of a Catholic school, is special. They require no relgious teaching, in fact they demand it. In a Catholic school thats a need that is different than all the other children. You can try to build a strawman argument and move the goalposts on my point, but the point still stands. The teacher is not a mind reader. How do they know the difference between the child acting up and the childs "religious beliefs", not that a 7 year old is in any way capable of having religious beliefs of their own.

There is no disrespect, bar that which you yourself have invented and attributed to attempt to win a point.

vibe666 wrote: »

no, i think it is entirely irrelevant when a teacher and principle in charge of the health and well-being of a child decide that the best course of action when a child questions belief in god is to immediately threaten them for not believing and in doing so breach their Irish constitutional and EU human rights.


i think if a primary school teacher in a catholic school can't handle a 7 year old kid questioning the existence of their imaginary friend without losing the plot and threatening them with expulsion, then *maybe* they're in the wrong job.

his child doesn't have any special needs, what she has are the same constitutional and human rights under Irish and EU law that every other child in the country has a right to.

if YOUR child didn't believe in santa and was threatened with expulsion by their school for that lack of belief in a clear breach of their rights, would you be happy about it and think it was a reasonable response against a 7 year old child?

I have already stated that I think it was handled badly by the principle at least.
Why do you refuse to accept that the parent caused this issue by not mentioning something to the school about their special requirements for their child?

Cabaal wrote: »

I think you'll find there is alot you can do about it,

Just because you enroll and child into a catholic ethos school does not mean that the school can force the religion on your child.

Indeed it doesnt, but it might be nice for them to know that you dont want your child to have religion taught to them.

bajer101 wrote: »

OP here again. Rather than try to respond individually to a lot of posts where people don't seem to have read the thread, I'll just do a quick recap and clarify a few points.

I did not have a conversation with the school about not wanting my daughter to learn Religion, because the situation only arose after she announced that she didn't believe in God. Prior to this, I actually wasn't too bothered about her doing Religion classes or making her Communion. While I am an atheist I have never had in-depth discussions with her about God or the big bang expansion, as these concepts are too difficult for a child to understand. I have always told her that she can make up her own mind about this. I have told her that I don't believe in God, but that plenty of other people do, including her mother and other members of our family. Regarding having her baptised - that is irrelevant, but for the record, it was her mother who wanted that done, but I now have sole custody. I may have ended up getting her baptised anyway, as it seems to be a prerequisite to gain admittance to over 90% of schools in the country.

The problem arose when she announced in class that she did not believe in God, and the big problem for both me and her was with how the school seemed to handle this. I started this thread looking for advice on how to proceed. Thanks to the advice I have received, I now know that I am perfectly entitled to have her opt of Religion and this is what I am pursuing. I have written to the Principal and explained the situation and also explained the situation to my daughter.

Why did you not talk to the school before all of this happened?
Do you not think it was going to come up at some stage, in a catholic school where there is religion taught?

Your last sentence should have been the first thing you did and none of this would have happened, you are the cause of this issue.

Gerry T wrote: »

For me I'm keen to know why those that feel catholic schools should teach catholic RE and remain state funded. For me its simple, if you take state funding you have to educate all denominations and the only real way to do this is drop RE as part of the course. If you disagree why do you feel differently ?

Interesting but not part of the argument.

You may as well ask why a boys soccer club wouldnt want a girl to join, even if there are no girls soccer clubs available nearby.

Arguing that there should be one isnt the point, there isnt.

GreeBo wrote: »

Please.

Comprehending 7-3 = 4 +3 is not exactly the same as having the ability to understand, comprehend, deal with the implications and decide on the existence of a deity or not.
Why dont we let them vote if they are so logical and developed?

To be fair, it goes the same for the other side of the coin. If this is the case we shouldn't be branding these children as Catholics or Protestants or Muslims etc.

RustyNut wrote: »

Its not a legal requirement for girls to play soccer.

Indeed it isn't.

But the point still stands, if the options are limited you have to deal with it.
The way you deal with it is by talking to the school and not expecting your 7 year old to have the frank open discussion with the school that is required.

bluewolf wrote: »

Kids are all taught about it at that age, it's kind of the point of the communion

Yes, it is nonsense, but when it's a Big Deal in the school whether she's going to go along with it or not, it makes sense to explain what it's actually about

In your opinion its nonsense altogether.
In my opinion trying to explain it to children is nonsense.

You cant expect a child to have any ability to understand a belief like that and make a conscious decision, they are always going to follow the parents choice.

Cabaal wrote: »

Yeah silly child saying things that don't go in-line with the catholic ethos....I mean how dare they!.
:rolleyes:

I suppose next you'll be suggesting that a child with divorced parents shouldn't say it in class or a child with gay parents shouldn't ever mention it in school.

After all, it might give impressionable young 7 year olds the wrong idea and we don't want that.



Even more amazing that children at the age of 5 say they believe in a god and Jesus, wouldn't be anything to do with their parents blindingly telling them they exist?
:rolleyes:

Its a Catholic school!
Of course they are going to expect the Catholic ethos.
There should be other options, but there arent.

The catholic parents of all the other kids dont expect or want their beliefs being challenged by others (children or teachers) hence they sent them to a Catholic school.

You dont think atheist children get that from their parents?

You really think its logical that a 7 year old can logically deduce that its nonsense to belief in a single deity but that they can believe in evolution and that "we are advanced monkeys"?
Children cant comprehend either of these things, they are children.