Daughter forced to believe in God

lukesmom · 09-09-2014 11:58pm

bajer101 wrote: »

Saturday? Does it matter?

Did you read my post I did not say it mattered I said I was curious.

Turtwig · 09-09-2014 11:58pm

lukesmom wrote: »

And IM back is that OKAY with YOU????

Mod: Cut it out both of you!

lukesmom · 09-09-2014 11:59pm

Turtwig wrote: »

Mod: Cut it out both of you!

She started it... Joking

byhookorbycrook · 10-09-2014 12:01am

There are no non-denoms in Ireland.

Turtwig · 10-09-2014 12:06am

Turtwig wrote: »

Mod: north Korea, political systems, down syndrome, Marty Morrissey etc. are irrelevant to this thread. Please don't be surprised if posts are moved or deleted.

As above, posts blatantly over the line, or derailing are being deleted.

WomanSkirtFan8 · 10-09-2014 12:07am

bajer101 wrote: »

My seven year old daughter moved to a Catholic school from an Educate Together school for logistical reasons. I'm a single Dad and am an atheist. I have always told my daughter that she can believe whatever she wants but that it would be better to wait until she is older to make her mind up as it is a very complicated subject.

I knew that moving her to a Catholic school would involve some religious teaching, but I thought that in this day and age it would be minimal. The trouble started on the first day when the class were colouring in a picture of Jesus and my daughter announced that she didn't believe in God. Her teacher told her that if said that again that she would be sent back to her old school! The other kids also seemed to gang up on her a bit over this. Over the next few days the subject came up again and she was sent to the principal's office and the principal told her that she had to believe in God!

My daughter is very upset over this and has feigned sickness to avoid going to school and last night she even disabled the alarm on my phone so that I wouldn't wake up in time (her plan worked!).

I am not sure what to do about this. The way I see it I have a few options.
1. Take her out of the school straight away as it is obviously very religiously oriented and there will be no good outcome if she is left there.
2. Get my daughter to play along and go with the flow.
3. Talk to the teacher and principal and try to come up with a reasonable solution.
4. Go all out nuclear and kick up a huge fuss and demand that my daughter be allowed opt out of all religious activity.

Any thoughts or advice would be appreciated.

my advice would be option number 3: try and talk to the teacher and principal and see if you can all work out something that will benefit all of you.

good luck!

Brian Shanahan · 10-09-2014 12:09am

Norma_Desmond wrote: »

Also, kids saying four prayers a day??!!??

EHRMEGERD!

Another prayer a day and they will become MUSLIM SCHOOLS! Dun-dun-duuuuuuuuhhhhhn!!!!!

It's a conspiracy by the Bilderberg/Illuminati/Templar/UN/NWO/Lizardpeople British Royal Family to turn us all into obedient sheeple so that they can suck out out lymph secretions and sell them to aliens in order to hook them on the addictive emotions and take over the UNIVERSE!!!!!!!!!11111oneoneoneoeneleven!

Sorry reading too many conspiracy theory entries on rational wiki, and they kind of took over.

bajer101 · 10-09-2014 12:14am

lukesmom wrote: »

Exactly North Korea is an athiest state.

While that's not entirely true, I picked that example to demonstrate that it's not necessarily a bad thing for one person to not join in celebrations with the masses. I was responding to a question about my daughter not joining in with the 99% of the others who would celebrate their Communion. Unfortunately this point seems to have been lost.

"Whoosh". What was that?

Having taken part in this debate I now understand why the anti-atheist brigade accuse Atheists of being arrogant and elitist. Most of the Atheists here have done their best to answer all questions, whereas when questions are asked of other parties, they either just plain ignore them or disappear. Those arrogant, elitist Atheist bastards, with their answers for everything!

Turtwig · 10-09-2014 12:15am

Mod: Eunan, either post relevant to the topic at hand, or start your own thread about north Korea! Any further posts here will be carded.

Pwindedd · 10-09-2014 12:15am

We don't label prospective employees by their religion, in fact I can think of no single time that my religion was ever brought up at a job interview or meeting. I do wonder why we are so determined to corral, segregate and define our children under labels which very few adults are judged on later in life. I think a happy medium would be Religious Education during the school day and Religious Instruction either after school or at Sunday school - who would be the losers in this setup?

shruikan2553 · 10-09-2014 12:18am

Pwindedd wrote: »

We don't label prospective employees by their religion, in fact I can think of no single time that my religion was ever brought up at a job interview or meeting. I do wonder why we are so determined to corral, segregate and define our children under labels which very few adults are judged on later in life. I think a happy medium would be Religious Education during the school day and Religious Instruction either after school or at Sunday school - who would be the losers in this setup?

We are told that parents want their children to have a religious ethos based on their parents faith. It makes no sense when you look at any statistics outside of the number of Catholics but supposedly people want it for no logical reason.

Gerry T · 10-09-2014 12:20am

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

There are no non-denoms in Ireland.

Did you know the origin of "by hook or by crook" was hook and crook peninsula, waterford. When pirates would sail up toward the barrow river and either land at hook head or crook peninsula and hope to avoid being caught

Anyway...back on topic...its interesting that the original issue was really about how a teacher didn't deal with a situation properly. But thankfully over the days OP and the school seems to be fining a common ground.
What surprised me was the amount of discussion around the patronage of, in particular primary schools, and the debate as to weather the 7yr old was right or wrong in making her stance.

For me I'm keen to know why those that feel catholic schools should teach catholic RE and remain state funded. For me its simple, if you take state funding you have to educate all denominations and the only real way to do this is drop RE as part of the course. If you disagree why do you feel differently ?

Brian Shanahan · 10-09-2014 12:23am

bajer101 wrote: »

Yeah well, save your sympathy - she'll be fine. We'll celebrate in our own way and she has a wonderfully supportive family who will give her a big day out.

Personally I'd suggest a trip to the Natural History Museum. I know it's a long time ago, but I loved when we went up there on school tour back in primary school.

Bongalongherb · 10-09-2014 12:27am

If science can prove beyond doubt and has solid proof for this so-called God, then I will take it on-board. Otherwise it's just another fairytale. I read a few books on fiction, but I know the illustrations and pictures are just that...Fiction, would I take on-board and believe in this fiction ?...No.

Sometimes I think that 90% of religious folk are insane believing in this so-called God that cannot be seen or measured in science. Maybe 90% of the population are insane. There is no proof anywhere that this God exists, so how can folk blindly believe it to be true.

Brian Shanahan · 10-09-2014 12:29am

<snipped: one paragraph explanation of the true religious situation in the DPRK. Kept on hard drive if anybody is curious>

Edit: Sorry, posted this before I saw the warning about discussing Korea. Post effectively deleted.

Hotblack Desiato · 10-09-2014 12:36am

Czarcasm wrote: »

If you start quoting the Irish Constitution and all the rest of it, you're likely to get people's backs up.

In the immortal words of John Lydon, "That's their tough shit."

Rights aren't just for catholics, or views we happen to agree with. It is rather ironic that the right in question is granted by a Constitution which is explicitly christian, and which in its original form went very close to establishing the roman catholic church as a state religion.

you have to remember that the Principal by default will defend not only the actions of their staff, but also the Catholic ethos of the school, and they will have the backing of the School Board, and the DES behind them.

They can't defend bullying a 7 year old child.
In reality the ethos of this particular school isn't in question here (although the 90+% catholic patronage certainly is.) This school's accommodation of the constitutional rights of its pupils very much is the topic, however.

The opinions of a handful of posters in an online forum aren't going to have any bearing whatsoever on how your case is handled, and when I say handled, I mean it could go on for weeks. When this thread dies down, you and your daughter will still be dealing with the issue, whereas posters here will have moved on with their lives.

Quite. So where does that leave the repeated not so helpful suggestions from various posters to 'move her to another school for the second time within weeks' so that their religious sensibilities not be offended on teh internet?

Hotblack Desiato · 10-09-2014 12:39am

Bongalongherb wrote: »

If science can prove beyond doubt and has solid proof for this so-called God, then I will take it on-board. Otherwise it's just another fairytale. I read a few books on fiction, but I know the illustrations and pictures are just that...Fiction, would I take on-board and believe in this fiction ?...No.

Sometimes I think that 90% of religious folk are insane believing in this so-called God that cannot be seen or measured in science. Maybe 90% of the population are insane. There is no proof anywhere that this God exists, so how can folk blindly believe it to be true.

To be an atheist in Ireland is sometimes to feel like the only sane man in the asylum.

EunanMac · 10-09-2014 12:44am

Bongalongherb wrote: »

If science can prove beyond doubt and has solid proof for this so-called God, then I will take it on-board. Otherwise it's just another fairytale. I read a few books on fiction, but I know the illustrations and pictures are just that...Fiction, would I take on-board and believe in this fiction ?...No.

Sometimes I think that 90% of religious folk are insane believing in this so-called God that cannot be seen or measured in science. Maybe 90% of the population are insane. There is no proof anywhere that this God exists, so how can folk blindly believe it to be true.

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

To be an atheist in Ireland is sometimes to feel like the only sane man in the asylum.

If only everyone was a 'bright'

yellowlabrador · 10-09-2014 12:44am

bajer101 I'm happy you were able to resolve your issues, I didn't have any problems 20 years ago when my children attended a one teacher rural primary school. In fact religion was never discussed with me, my children told the teacher they wouldn't take religion but they did some different work with the protestant children.They were a bit of a curiosity to the others but there never was any nastiness and they are all great friends to this day.
I was refused admission to the waiting room of an outpatient clinic at Cork University hospital 18 years ago, for refusing to give a religion for the records, but I think that was ignorance on the part of the receptionist. Luckily, there are more 'outofthecloset' atheists around now and most people know we exist.
It's not easy being a single parent so happy parenting and prepare for the teenage years. they can be a bit of a rollercoaster.

lynski · 10-09-2014 12:45am

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

To be an atheist in Ireland is sometimes to feel like the only sane man in the asylum.

Or woman.

bajer101 · 10-09-2014 12:50am

lukesmom wrote: »

Did you read my post I did not say it mattered I said I was curious.

The reason why I will give her a bit of a celebration is so that she doesn't feel left out. There'll be lots of other kids having a great day raking in the cash because they are observing some ceremony and belief that they don't understand. Due to this bizarre scenario, I'll give her a bit of a day out.

Bongalongherb · 10-09-2014 12:59am

bajer101 wrote: »

The reason why I will give her a bit of a celebration is so that she doesn't feel left out. There'll be lots of other kids having a great day raking in the cash because they are observing some ceremony and belief that they don't understand. Due to this bizarre scenario, I'll give her a bit of a day out.

A man of intelligence, I like it. I did read the whole thread and you were professional at all times regarding the scenario yourself and your daughter are in.

Best of luck, and I hope everything works out for both of you, which it will no doubt.

Turtwig · 10-09-2014 1:04am

lynski wrote: »

Or woman.

Himself, or herself.

SpaceTime · 10-09-2014 1:05am

yellowlabrador wrote: »

bajer101 I'm happy you were able to resolve your issues, I didn't have any problems 20 years ago when my children attended a one teacher rural primary school. In fact religion was never discussed with me, my children told the teacher they wouldn't take religion but they did some different work with the protestant children.They were a bit of a curiosity to the others but there never was any nastiness and they are all great friends to this day.
I was refused admission to the waiting room of an outpatient clinic at Cork University hospital 18 years ago, for refusing to give a religion for the records, but I think that was ignorance on the part of the receptionist. Luckily, there are more 'outofthecloset' atheists around now and most people know we exist.
It's not easy being a single parent so happy parenting and prepare for the teenage years. they can be a bit of a rollercoaster.

Even odder as CUH isn't a religious hospital.
I guess she either had a chip on her shoulder or didn't know what to do about the box she had to tick and went into Computer Says No mode.

bajer101 · 10-09-2014 1:05am

Bongalongherb wrote: »

A man of intelligence, I like it. I did read the whole thread and you were professional at all times regarding the scenario yourself and your daughter are in.

Best of luck, and I hope everything works out for both of you, which it will no doubt.

Is that you Ma?

puss · 10-09-2014 1:07am

OP you said in your 2nd post that the school asked for a Baptismal Cert and I take it you supply this. May I suggest you ask to take this back from the school so that it won't be on your daughter's record for the next teachers she will have in 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th class. The teacher certainly handled the situation badly but I am sure she thought your daughter was supposed to be taught religion. My sister attended one of the first Comprehensive schools in the country around 1965/66 and 80% of her class were RC and 20% were protestants. When religion was been taught to the RC pupils the protestants left the class. Surely when that could be done in the Ireland of the sixties why is it an issue now?

Bongalongherb · 10-09-2014 1:16am

bajer101 wrote: »

Is that you Ma?

No

. I'm just an optimist, and always will be son.

bajer101 · 10-09-2014 1:16am

puss wrote: »

OP you said in your 2nd post that the school asked for a Baptismal Cert and I take it you supply this. May I suggest you ask to take this back from the school so that it won't be on your daughter's record for the next teachers she will have in 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th class. The teacher certainly handled the situation badly but I am sure she thought your daughter was supposed to be taught religion. My sister attended one of the first Comprehensive schools in the country around 1965/66 and 80% of her class were RC and 20% were protestants. When religion was been taught to the RC pupils the protestants left the class. Surely when that could be done in the Ireland of the sixties why is it an issue now?

Why? What would this achieve? I have addressed the issue with the Principal of the school, therefore the next time the situation will arise will be in her next school or if my daughter decides that she wishes to study Religion.

RustyNut · 10-09-2014 1:29am

Pwindedd wrote: »

I think a happy medium would be Religious Education during the school day and Religious Instruction either after school or at Sunday school - who would be the losers in this setup?

Thats more or less the ET way. Mine got to visit a catholic church and meet the priest, the mosque and met the imam and a hindu centre. They also discussed and got to question other religions and that imho is education.

Trying to make young kids believe in one god and telling them that if they don't believe then bad things will happen (and this is where the op's daughter is lucky apart from having an open minded supportive parent, because her bad thing is being sent back to her old school not burning in hell for eternity) is indoctrination and should not be taught with state funds.

Hotblack Desiato · 10-09-2014 1:37am

lynski wrote: »

Or woman.

Indeed. It's a huperson rights issue.

The Interpretation Act 1937 should by default apply in this forum :

(b) Masculine and feminine. Every word importing the masculine gender shall, unless the contrary intention appears, be construed as if it also imported the feminine gender;

Daughter forced to believe in God

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