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    #302
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,120 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    SnowDrifts wrote: »
    Greebo I think we need to get a category mod involved in this because you clearly are trying to rail your own agenda and not do what is good for the forum. By all means, ban people discussing politics but to not allow us to discuss Rory's news today is just disillusion on your own part.

    Like I said, in my post, I did not mention his nationality or who he should play for. I did not breach the charter.

    Cmods are involved.
    Again, talk all you want about Rory in the Olympics, it's news, no problem with that.
    the ban is on discussion of nationality.

    Your warning will be discussed in your drp thread.
    I don't know why you feel the need to personally attack me, it's not my personal agenda, it's been agreed and working this way for months. Check out the link Charlie posted in the other thread for what we are trying to avoid.

    Attacking a mod is not a terribly useful way of trying to achieve anything tbh.


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    #303
    SnowDrifts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,733 ✭✭✭SnowDrifts


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Cmods are involved.
    Again, talk all you want about Rory in the Olympics, it's news, no problem with that.
    the ban is on discussion of nationality.

    Your warning will be discussed in your drp thread.
    I don't know why you feel the need to personally attack me, it's not my personal agenda, it's been agreed and working this way for months. Check out the link Charlie posted in the other thread for what we are trying to avoid.

    Attacking a mod is not a terribly useful way of trying to achieve anything tbh.

    There was no "attack" Greebo. I understand you don't want to allow political discussions to take place in the golf forum and that is perfectly fine.

    But my post, or indeed the subsequent deleted posts, were not political nor did they discuss his nationality. It was simply a positive news story about one of the world's top players that we should have been allowed to discuss.


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    #304
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,120 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    SnowDrifts wrote: »
    There was no "attack" Greebo. I understand you don't want to allow political discussions to take place in the golf forum and that is perfectly fine.

    But my post, or indeed the subsequent deleted posts, were not political nor did they discuss his nationality. It was simply a positive news story about one of the world's top players that we should have been allowed to discuss.
    I'm sorry but emotive words like " rail road", "agenda" & " disillusion" are most certainly a personal attack on me and my ethics.

    Anything straying.near the topic will be removed, to avoid a shed load of work for mods and bannings for users.

    You are allowed to discuss his entry to the Olympics.


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    #305
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,120 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Dbu wrote: »
    I just really didnt like the 'hard of hearing' punch line from greebo.
    The points they both make are fine re nationality and I accept, just the line above irks me and the mod in question should apologise for this as it causes offence.

    Most people are responsible adults here.

    Well when you have had to repeat the same thing over and over and still people ignore it you have to wonder.

    I apologise to anyone hard of hearing that my comments have offended. To those of sound hearing, cop on and stop ignoring moderators instructions, please.


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    #306
    SnowDrifts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,733 ✭✭✭SnowDrifts


    GreeBo wrote: »
    I'm sorry but emotive words like " rail road", "agenda" & " disillusion" are most certainly a personal attack on me and my ethics.

    Anything straying.near the topic will be removed, to avoid a shed load of work for mods and bannings for users.

    You are allowed to discuss his entry to the Olympics.

    So can my post be re-instated then?


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    #307
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,120 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    SnowDrifts wrote: »
    So can my post be re-instated then?

    A I said earlier, you will be dealt with in the drp thread.


  • Options
    #308
    LinksLad
    Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭LinksLad


    Change the charter.


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    #309
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,712 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Let me just chip in here. I will pick this up with the local mod team to see if we can come up with some wording that deals with the particular concerns raised by them while allowing discussion of this particular "positive" (from an IRL angle) story. To put it in a little more perspective - what if he had opted for GBR? I've seen this sort of stuff descend into chaos elsewhere and the rule was introduced to avoid the type of heated discussions which inevitably follow such decisions. Hence there is very good reason to prohibit discussion of the particular nationality a player opts for.

    One thing to add - this ius not the place for anyone to discuss mod actions, be it in-thread warnings, cards or bans. There are procedures in polace which permit discussion with mods and the escalation of issues througn the formal dispute process or directly with CMods if a satifactory conclusion cannot be reached with the mod


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    #310
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,329 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Beasty wrote: »
    Let me just chip in here. I will pick this up with the local mod team to see if we can come up with some wording that deals with the particular concerns raised by them while allowing discussion of this particular "positive" (from an IRL angle) story. To put it in a little more perspective - what if he had opted for GBR? I've seen this sort of stuff descend into chaos elsewhere and the rule was introduced to avoid the type of heated discussions which inevitably follow such decisions. Hence there is very good reason to prohibit discussion of the particular nationality a player opts for.

    This happened in cricket when Ed Joyce and Eoin Morgan declared for England, and the mods of the cricket forum were able to allow discussion of it.
    Obviously one set of moderator decisions isn't binding on another forum, but to me the cricket mods decision is clearly the way it should go. Its a discussion forum, warts and all.


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    #311
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,120 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Fyi there is a thread up and running without any issues here on the Irish Olympic golf team.
    here


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    #312
    slave1
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 18,798 Mod ✭✭✭✭slave1


    Is it an idea to have an 'unmoderated' thread? Obviously golf related, let a bit of betting and nationality be discussed as long as it remains civil, at least give it a chance and if it descends into the gutter then it can be closed. Folk can choose to ignore it if they are not interested in the content.
    It seems a bit sad that I was out golfing today and found out Rory has chosen to play for Ireland and yet there appears to be a wording game going on here between mods and users on this national topic, as John said, give it a chance...

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    #313
    Felexicon
    Registered Users Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭Felexicon


    Greebo, have you ever stepped back and asked why it's always you that seems to become involved in these kind of arguments and not the other mods of this forum.
    Generally I don't have any issues with the way you mod but when someone asks for clarification on a ruling you make you can become quite dictatorial and try to shout people down with the threat of bans.

    Maybe something to think about.


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    #314
    SaveOurLyric
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭SaveOurLyric


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Fyi there is a thread up and running without any issues here on the Irish Olympic golf team.
    here

    No Problems ???
    From that thread :
    GreeBo wrote: »
    As per the charter, there is to be no discussion of players declaring or not for any country.
    Next mention is a ban.
    No more warnings.


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    #315
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,712 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    slave1 wrote: »
    Is it an idea to have an 'unmoderated' thread?
    Absolutely not! This is not going to be allowed anywhere in the public forums. Mods are there to ensure site as well as foruym rules are observed (and, for example, to deal with anything that could put the site at any risk of legal challenge). We are simply not allowed to "not moderate"!!


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    #316
    SaveOurLyric
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭SaveOurLyric


    This one is going OK though :

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056750713&page=59

    No bans and bolded text about at all.


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    #317
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,120 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Felexicon wrote: »
    Greebo, have you ever stepped back and asked why it's always you that seems to become involved in these kind of arguments and not the other mods of this forum.
    Generally I don't have any issues with the way you mod but when someone asks for clarification on a ruling you make you can become quite dictatorial and try to shout people down with the threat of bans.

    Maybe something to think about.

    For the record I didn't give the original card.

    I'm involved now as there were several follow-up posts that needed moderation.

    Bans are threatened when people ignore warnings, then yellow and red cards. I'm not shooting people down, I'm moderating according to the charter.


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    #318
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,712 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    ArmaniJeanss wrote: »
    This happened in cricket when Ed Joyce and Eoin Morgan declared for England, and the mods of the cricket fora were able to allow discussion of it.
    Obviously one set of moderator decisions isn't binding on another fora, but to me the cricket mods decision is clearly the way it should go. Its a discussion forum, warts and all.
    I am fully aware of the situation in the cricket forum and the significant problems caused by the "Morgan debate". As I've already indicated if McIlroy had declared for GBR I would have expected a lot of trouble to follow (putting the cricket forum (which is generally a low hassle, and relatively small forum) problems into the shade). It's my experience of those problems in the cricket forum which suggests to me that this sort of thing is probably better off banned from discussion in a forum like this. However discussion of Ireland's Olympic hopefuls/team is certainly permitted - the point is that posters should not make any issue out of the fact someoene has "opted" for one country over another


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    #319
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,120 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    SaveOurLyric wrote: »
    This one is going OK though :

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056750713&page=59

    No bans and bolded text about at all.

    That's AH, a totally different type of forum.
    A quick glance shows me several posts that would require moderation on the golf forum, hence we have this rule.


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    #320
    charlieIRL
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,190 Mod ✭✭✭✭charlieIRL


    I zapped the original post, I've seen it too many times on forums when a sportspersons nationality is discussed. Some of the posts were downright slanderous. This is the reason this was nipped in the bud. Chat about the olympics all day long


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    #321
    P_1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,681 ✭✭✭✭P_1


    charlieIRL wrote: »
    I zapped the original post, I've seen it too many times on forums when a sportspersons nationality is discussed. Some of the posts were downright slanderous. This is the reason this was nipped in the bud. Chat about the olympics all day long

    Just my 2 cent, when you're zapping things like that might it be an idea to add a few lines explaining why. Perhaps it's just posting style but sometimes mod posts can come across as rather authoritarian and dictatorial.

    If for example, "For the hard of hearing, there is no discussion allowed on this forum about a players nationality or who they have or have not declared for.

    Next one is a ban.
    Arguing with a moderators decisions on thread is also a bannable offence.
    There is a feedback thread for this sort of thing."

    was replaced with, "Discussions on player's nationalities generally turn into undignified messes and that is something that we'd rather avoid here, as a result we don't allow discussion about a player's nationality on this forum"

    it would come across a lot better, people won't get their backs up and chances are things would flow a bit better.

    Maybe its just me but generally I find that people react better to being told that they can't don something when the reason why is explained to them rather than a seemingly abrupt order.


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    #322
    FixdePitchmark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,816 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    On The Rory issue.

    Politics and sport don't mix.
    "Some people believe that football is a matter of life and death "

    Hang with me - this is feedback :)

    Jaysus lads - I can't believe it is as important as all this.

    I think I understand the Rory rule - you can understand how some lads may have in the past go - the %£$$ F$$k£r not playing for Ireland blaa blaa blaa.

    But at the same time , you can see how the rule has had unintended consequences in this instance.

    Opening up the thread on Rio 2016 is a fair compromise - in conflict resolution - such as the Good Friday Agreement for example - you have to compromise , sometimes you have to accept things that are against everything in you, for the greater good.

    Just listening to RTE news there - it is on it. There was no mention of Boards BTW.

    He is just a kid , who has had a bit of a strange life. He is in an extremely difficult situation, that only a few people on here could understand. I went up the North and spoke to people about it there. And, it would take a lifetime of living there to understand it fully.

    It is a no win situation - but he has had to compromise - sometimes you can't win in every situation.

    So - we will drive on. It is only a game - most lads on here are not as bad as they come across - a game of golf with them is the way. :D


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    #323
    mickmackey1
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,288 ✭✭✭mickmackey1


    In fairness I don't see how its possible to discuss the olympics without discussing nationality... patriotic, flag-waving jingoism is at the very heart of the entire event!! The mods are tying themselves up in knots here.


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    #324
    ArmaniJeanss
    Registered Users Posts: 13,329 ✭✭✭✭ArmaniJeanss


    Beasty wrote: »
    I am fully aware of the situation in the cricket forum and the significant problems caused by the "Morgan debate". As I've already indicated if McIlroy had declared for GBR I would have expected a lot of trouble to follow (putting the cricket forum (which is generally a low hassle, and relatively small forum) problems into the shade). It's my experience of those problems in the cricket forum which suggests to me that this sort of thing is probably better off banned from discussion in a forum like this. However discussion of Ireland's Olympic hopefuls/team is certainly permitted - the point is that posters should not make any issue out of the fact someoene has "opted" for one country over another

    OK, so I think what you are saying is that the cricket forum is smaller than the golf forum and better able to absorb such a heated nationality discussion.

    So what about the soccer, rugby and gaa forums?
    Soccer had a long running thread about the James McCarthy situation and there were times when it looked likely he would choose Scotland. Debate continued through it all.
    GAA had the Seamie Johnson affair (the GAA equivalent of an international tug-of-war) again robust debate was allowed.
    Rugby has had debates about the merits of southern hemisphere born players (with no 'blood' links) declaring for NH international sides.

    So boards sports forums both bigger and smaller than this one seem to able to host this sort of 'nationality' debate. Why is the golf forum different?


  • Options
    #325
    SaveOurLyric
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭SaveOurLyric


    mickmackey1 wrote: »
    In fairness I don't see how its possible to discuss the olympics without discussing nationality... patriotic, flag-waving jingoism is at the very heart of the entire event!! The mods are tying themselves up in knots here.

    Indeed. Thats what makes the Olympics such a joke of a 'sports' event.

    Golf diving into that cesspit is a sad step, where RoMac could have a gold medal of equal value (olympic medals being the debased junk bond of sporting achievement) to one won for beach volleyball or ribbon-on-a-stick-twirling. Add in what tune he has to listen to and flag to shed a tear to as he receives his medal, and it just adds to the farce (hand over the heart is always a touching addition).

    I'm just Rors didnt just skip it altogether, and rather than giving the reason that he doesnt know where he is from, just point at the emperors new cloths and sat he would rather stay at home do something more interesting like arranging his tees by size and colour.


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    #326
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,120 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    P_1 wrote: »
    Just my 2 cent, when you're zapping things like that might it be an idea to add a few lines explaining why. Perhaps it's just posting style but sometimes mod posts can come across as rather authoritarian and dictatorial.

    If for example, "For the hard of hearing, there is no discussion allowed on this forum about a players nationality or who they have or have not declared for.

    Next one is a ban.
    Arguing with a moderators decisions on thread is also a bannable offence.
    There is a feedback thread for this sort of thing."

    was replaced with, "Discussions on player's nationalities generally turn into undignified messes and that is something that we'd rather avoid here, as a result we don't allow discussion about a player's nationality on this forum"

    it would come across a lot better, people won't get their backs up and chances are things would flow a bit better.

    Maybe its just me but generally I find that people react better to being told that they can't don something when the reason why is explained to them rather than a seemingly abrupt order.
    There are already several warnings on that thread and it's been part of the charter that everyone is supposed to read before posting.

    The reason was stated abd yet it was ignored, multiple times.


  • Options
    #327
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,120 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    SaveOurLyric wrote: »
    Indeed. Thats what makes the Olympics such a joke of a 'sports' event.

    Golf diving into that cesspit is a sad step, where RoMac could have a gold medal of equal value (olympic medals being the debased junk bond of sporting achievement) to one won for beach volleyball or ribbon-on-a-stick-twirling. Add in what tune he has to listen to and flag to shed a tear to as he receives his medal, and it just adds to the farce (hand over the heart is always a touching addition).

    I'm just Rors didnt just skip it altogether, and rather than giving the reason that he doesnt know where he is from, just point at the emperors new cloths and sat he would rather stay at home do something more interesting like arranging his tees by size and colour.

    Let's leave it for feedback only please.


  • Options
    #328
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,120 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    mickmackey1 wrote: »
    In fairness I don't see how its possible to discuss the olympics without discussing nationality... patriotic, flag-waving jingoism is at the very heart of the entire event!! The mods are tying themselves up in knots here.

    It's perfectly possible to talk about the event without discussing ego someone has decided to play for.


  • Options
    #329
    bustercherry
    Registered Users Posts: 1,061 ✭✭✭bustercherry


    FixdePitchmark wrote: »
    On The Rory issue.

    Politics and sport don't mix.
    "Some people believe that football is a matter of life and death "

    Hang with me - this is feedback :)

    Jaysus lads - I can't believe it is as important as all this.

    I think I understand the Rory rule - you can understand how some lads may have in the past go - the %£$$ F$$k£r not playing for Ireland blaa blaa blaa.

    But at the same time , you can see how the rule has had unintended consequences in this instance.

    Opening up the thread on Rio 2016 is a fair compromise - in conflict resolution - such as the Good Friday Agreement for example - you have to compromise , sometimes you have to accept things that are against everything in you, for the greater good.

    Just listening to RTE news there - it is on it. There was no mention of Boards BTW.

    He is just a kid , who has had a bit of a strange life. He is in an extremely difficult situation, that only a few people on here could understand. I went up the North and spoke to people about it there. And, it would take a lifetime of living there to understand it fully.

    It is a no win situation - but he has had to compromise - sometimes you can't win in every situation.

    So - we will drive on. It is only a game - most lads on here are not as bad as they come across - a game of golf with them is the way. :D

    Patronising drivel :rolleyes:


  • Options
    #330
    m r c
    Closed Accounts Posts: 802 ✭✭✭m r c


    I'm using this forum a fair while now and in all fairness it's well run, tbh I have read the charter and I'm a little unsure what can and can't be posted regarding Rory's choice.

    The problem post from today probably shouldn't have been deleted the way I read the charter but some of the posts after the post was deleted kinda gave credibility to the deletion.

    Really I suppose the mods don't want the topic discussed at all and there is no free speech as we oft hear quoted.

    It is nice that the forum and it's etiquette seems to be in the spirit of the game all the same ie no time for bull****


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    #331
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,120 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    m r c wrote: »
    I'm using this forum a fair while now and in all fairness it's well run, tbh I have read the charter and I'm a little unsure what can and can't be posted regarding Rory's choice.

    The problem post from today probably shouldn't have been deleted the way I read the charter but some of the posts after the post was deleted kinda gave credibility to the deletion.

    Really I suppose the mods don't want the topic discussed at all and there is no free speech as we oft hear quoted.

    It is nice that the forum and it's etiquette seems to be in the spirit of the game all the same ie no time for bull****

    If I was to try to sum it up simply...
    Talk about the fact, not the decision.
    Help?


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