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Who do you consider to be Irish ?

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    #152
    Glassheart
    Closed Accounts Posts: 501 ✭✭✭Glassheart


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Shane McGowan Irish, or is he?

    17362d1139439356-rob-thurston-appoligies-funnythumb.jpg

    Irish Blood,English Teeth.


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    #153
    Glassheart
    Closed Accounts Posts: 501 ✭✭✭Glassheart


    Sound of Silence wrote: »
    Oscar Wilde, George Bernard Shaw, and James Joyce could not be identified as ethnically Irish, having been descended from landed families.

    James Joyce certainly is ethnically Irish,i never understand why he gets confused with the Anglo Irish community.

    I read somewhere that 10-15% of the ethnic Irish majority converted to Protestantism during the 17th century.If this is true then surely it would have had a large impact on the ethnic make up of the Anglo Irish.


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    #154
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Glassheart wrote: »
    James Joyce certainly is ethnically Irish,i never understand why he gets confused with the Anglo Irish community.

    Can you be ethnically Irish though?

    I think post#4 sums this aspect of Irishness up very well.

    Link > http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81170492&postcount=4


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    #155
    Esel
    Registered Users Posts: 22,039 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Can you be ethnically Irish though?

    I think post#4 sums this aspect of Irishness up very well.

    Link > http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81170492&postcount=4
    Ah right so Ted, /thread then?

    Didn't I read here that you may be conflicted on this issue? :pac:

    Not your ornery onager



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    #156
    IrishAm
    Registered Users Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭IrishAm


    barfizz wrote: »
    You can debate,
    Define indigenous, to me it is "Originating and living or occurring naturally in an area or environment."
    Looks to me as anyone who was born here :)

    Nope.

    It means first people.

    Being born here matters not a jot.

    Senator David Norris was born and grew up in the Congo.

    Is he Irish or African? :pac:


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    #157
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Esel wrote: »
    Ah right so Ted, /thread then?

    Didn't I read here that you may be conflicted on this issue?

    Oh arr Ralph, but for me clear thinking sums it up very well.


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    #158
    Sound of Silence
    Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭Sound of Silence


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Can you be ethnically Irish though?

    I think post#4 sums this aspect of Irishness up very well.

    Link > http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=81170492&postcount=4

    Of course you can be ethnically Irish.

    Ethnicity doesn't even necessitate a shared genetic heritage.


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    #159
    peil
    Registered Users Posts: 14 ✭peil


    In my book anyone who wants to be can be Irish, so long as they have Irish ancestors or live here. Obviously there's varying amounts of Irish, like I was born and reared here, my great grandparents were from the gaeltacht, and then there's people like south boston or bronx people


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    #160
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Sound of Silence wrote: »
    Of course you can be ethnically Irish.

    Ethnicity doesn't even necessitate a shared genetic heritage.

    So what does being "ethnically Irish" actually mean?


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    #161
    Sound of Silence
    Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭Sound of Silence


    LordSutch wrote: »
    So what does being "ethnically Irish" actually mean?

    Ethnicity is governed by the qualities which an individual feels links him or her to a particular community or place. This might include Religious beliefs, Genetic makeup, or simply a shared Cultural Heritage. There is not one single Irish ethnicity; and I imagine the vast majority of those posting on this thread have been referring to the Gaelic-Irish ethnicity as being the one true Irish identity, which I disagree with.

    Ethnicity itself is quite often voluntary, and is measured by degrees. For example, the process of Gaelicization has been evidenced in the past, whereby large groups of foreigners abandoned many of their traditional values in favour of a Gaelic-Irish ethno-linguistic identity. Such people might not necessarily be genetically linked to the majority of the Irish population, but would now arguably share a Cultural and ethnic identity, distinct from that of the rest of the European population.

    I mentioned in one of my previous posts that the sphere of Irish identity has gradually mutated over generations, and could arguably be considered to be convoluted in some sense, having spawned the Hiberno-Normans, Gaelic Irish, Scotch Irish, Anglo Irish (or New Irish), and countless others. You're quite possibly a good example of this new found dissonance. In some ways this is evidenced by your previous posts, in which you seem to be quite conflicted in your identity.

    From simply reading your posts, it's seems quite evident that you are actually capable of identifying the aspects of your character which lend themselves to what could be described as a British identity, such as your Religious, Cultural and Political beliefs; as well as your Heritage, which is I believe is either English or Scots. This certainly does not dismiss you from being considered Irish; rather it simply places you into a separate ethnic bracket of a wider Irish sphere.


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    #162
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    Sound of Silence wrote: »
    . . . as well as your Heritage, which is I believe is either English or Scots.

    Very true, I believe our famlies arrived here in the mid 1600s, from England I think?


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    #163
    marky1905
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 61 ✭✭marky1905


    you are irish if you are born and bred in the republic of ireland, and no yanks and people from derry dont count, especially with derry soon to become uk most british city!


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    #164
    Sound of Silence
    Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭Sound of Silence


    marky1905 wrote: »
    you are irish if you are born and bred in the republic of ireland, and no yanks and people from derry dont count, especially with derry soon to become uk most british city!

    You think the issue of identity is bad in the South?

    The post above is a good example of what you can expect if you head up North.


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    #165
    Rebelheart
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    marky1905 wrote: »
    you are irish if you are born and bred in the republic of ireland, and no yanks and people from derry dont count, especially with derry soon to become uk most british city!

    Seeing as we're arbitrarily making up our own qualifications in all their retardation, everybody knows you can only be truly British if you can write in the Queen's English correctly. If you can't it's clear you're a bible-thumping lowland Scot with no breeding who is riding on the coattails of the English empire, is clearly inferior to the ethnically more civilised Anglican English and whose only real purpose in the English state of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is to be used as undereducated cannonfodder in the English British Army.


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    #166
    RADIUS
    Closed Accounts Posts: 353 ✭✭RADIUS


    Diplomatically an Irish person is someone with Irish citizen status.

    Ethnically an Irish person is someone who has inherited a good portion of their genes from the peoples who decided to migrate here in various waves thousands of years ago.

    In order to maintain a healthy and thriving genepool we need to integrate other genes every now and then. Over time those genes become as Irish as the Irish. It's not so much that the gene's change, it's that what 'Irish' is changes.

    Over generations the difference goes away as ethnicity is not a static thing. It is constantly absorbing genes and evolving.

    The Irish gene pool before the Viking invasions would have looked slightly different to a biologist than the Irish gene pool 2 hundred years after the Vikings mixed with the Irish en masse.

    Both genepools are as Irish as each other. One is not more Irish than the next.They represent a snapshot of what Irish was at that point in history.

    So for those immigrants and children of immigrants, Your integration here is helping to shape what 'Irish' ethnicity will become in the future, and it won't be any less Irish than what it is now.

    Tá fáilte romhaibh. ;)


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    #167
    marky1905
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 61 ✭✭marky1905


    Rebelheart wrote: »
    Seeing as we're arbitrarily making up our own qualifications in all their retardation, everybody knows you can only be truly British if you can write in the Queen's English correctly. If you can't it's clear you're a bible-thumping lowland Scot with no breeding who is riding on the coattails of the English empire, is clearly inferior to the ethnically more civilised Anglican English and whose only real purpose in the English state of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is to be used as undereducated cannonfodder in the English British Army.

    Rebelheart you most certainly qualify as irish ,a sad little republican crackpot from county kerry, who fights a war that doesn't exist through internetboards that nobody could give a **** about following cause your a boring twat!


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    #168
    marky1905
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 61 ✭✭marky1905


    Londonderry, the most irish place in ireland for a fact!!!

    as long as you forget its the most culturally british in the UK, well not until 2013 !!

    Still a few months to do silly dances and watch rte!


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    #169
    Sound of Silence
    Registered Users Posts: 1,192 ✭✭✭Sound of Silence


    marky1905 wrote: »
    Londonderry, the most irish place in ireland for a fact!!!

    as long as you forget its the most culturally british in the UK, well not until 2013 !!

    Still a few months to do silly dances and watch rte!

    You're not contributing very much to this thread.

    Rebelheart simply used your own myopic rhetoric to swiftly beat you over the head with it. I'm guessing your feeling pretty offended by how glibly he threw away any vestiges of respect he might hold for your cultural identity, and instead simply pulled out every possible stereotype and qualification he could think of to smash it to pieces.

    Also, the highlighted part is really facetious. You should do a little research: http://www.cityofculture2013.com/background/


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    #170
    jonniebgood1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,577 ✭✭✭jonniebgood1


    marky1905 wrote: »
    Londonderry, the most irish place in ireland for a fact!!!

    as long as you forget its the most culturally british in the UK, well not until 2013 !!

    Still a few months to do silly dances and watch rte!

    Infraction for trolling and given the 'level' of trolling I would thank you not to return.

    Moderator


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    #171
    marky1905
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 61 ✭✭marky1905


    Sound of Silence wrote: »
    You think the issue of identity is bad in the South?

    The post above is a good example of what you can expect if you head up North.

    I am from northern ireland!!


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    #172
    marky1905
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 61 ✭✭marky1905


    Sound of Silence wrote: »
    You're not contributing very much to this thread.

    Rebelheart simply used your own myopic rhetoric to swiftly beat you over the head with it. I'm guessing your feeling pretty offended by how glibly he threw away any vestiges of respect he might hold for your cultural identity, and instead simply pulled out every possible stereotype and qualification he could think of to smash it to pieces.

    Also, the highlighted part is really facetious. You should do a little research: http://www.cityofculture2013.com/background/

    Why would i be offended by anything a <<<MOD EDIT- personal abuse is not allowed- User banned for 1 week >>>

    night in some backwater pub.


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    #173
    Rebelheart
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    marky1905 wrote: »
    I am from northern ireland!!

    Great! So, what part of Donegal are you from?

    Perhaps it's the teacher coming out of me, but you really, really, really need to learn the difference between a capital noun and a proper noun, especially if you want to claim to be super English/British:

    "Northern Ireland" ==> a proper noun, the name of a specific place, often with legitimacy attached.

    "northern ireland" ==> a common noun, the name of a geographical area with no specific or political connotations.

    Nice to see you're not implying that the Occupied Six Counties is a legitimate state.

    >>>MOD EDIT- Stay on topic>>>
    marky1905 wrote: »
    I am from northern ireland!!

    Er, I sort of think that was precisely the point made. Deep breaths. Allow the oxygen in. Think. Please think.

    Let me guess: you're not more than 17, and academically you could, well, "be stronger"?


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    #174
    marky1905
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 61 ✭✭marky1905


    >>>Rubbish edited out- user banned<<<

    moderator


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    #175
    anishboi
    Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭anishboi


    RADIUS wrote: »
    Diplomatically an Irish person is someone with Irish citizen status.

    Ethnically an Irish person is someone who has inherited a good portion of their genes from the peoples who decided to migrate here in various waves thousands of years ago.

    In order to maintain a healthy and thriving genepool we need to integrate other genes every now and then. Over time those genes become as Irish as the Irish. It's not so much that the gene's change, it's that what 'Irish' is changes.

    Over generations the difference goes away as ethnicity is not a static thing. It is constantly absorbing genes and evolving.

    The Irish gene pool before the Viking invasions would have looked slightly different to a biologist than the Irish gene pool 2 hundred years after the Vikings mixed with the Irish en masse.

    Both genepools are as Irish as each other. One is not more Irish than the next.They represent a snapshot of what Irish was at that point in history.

    So for those immigrants and children of immigrants, Your integration here is helping to shape what 'Irish' ethnicity will become in the future, and it won't be any less Irish than what it is now.

    Tá fáilte romhaibh. ;)

    This guy hit the nail right on its head.


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    #176
    Thomas_I
    Closed Accounts Posts: 596 ✭✭✭Thomas_I


    IrishAm wrote: »
    I can debate this with you. 90 per cent of Irish peeps are indigenous to this great nation.

    Ireland for the Irish

    I wonder what answer you´d get from some people in NI, especially from the Unionists over there.

    I´m no Irish but I find it interesting to follow this thread.


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    #177
    tac foley
    Registered Users Posts: 5,500 ✭✭✭tac foley


    Well, my dad was Irish, and my mom was half-Irish, but I've not lived in the Republic longer than three weeks during summer holidays as a youngster. I spent, in total, a couple of years or more in Northern Ireland, and have mixed feeling about the whole place. Some of it I love, and some of it I loathe utterly - all down to personal experiences. Mostly, I have to say, it makes me sad.

    I have no 'pull' to ever going back for more than an occasional visit for any reason, and what 'Irishness'- if any - that I ever had from my parents is long gone. I have great respect for those who have never ever left, and have spent their lives making things better for their fellow Irish people, but an equal amount of respect for those who DID leave, like my dad, and made a life that was much different from the one he left behind.

    mrs tac says that my genes come out when I'm teaching or lecturing - a story-teller she says. I'm proud and happy to claim some degree of Irishness, but I'm most definitely not Irish. I have a UK passport and a Canadian one, too, but not an Irish one. I'd feel a fraud if I ever tried to acquire one, although I'm perfectly within my rights to do so.

    tac


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    #178
    RGM
    Registered Users Posts: 484 ✭✭RGM


    tac foley wrote: »
    I'm proud and happy to claim some degree of Irishness, but I'm most definitely not Irish. I have a UK passport and a Canadian one, too, but not an Irish one. I'd feel a fraud if I ever tried to acquire one, although I'm perfectly within my rights to do so.

    tac

    I'm kind of the other way around. Like you, I have Irish blood, yet couldn't claim to be "Irish." But I intend to claim citizenship and a passport and eventually move back there. I wasn't born or raised in Ireland, but when I came over, I couldn't stop thinking "this is the place for me."

    To each his own. People have to decide these things for themselves. No wrong answer, I think.


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    #179
    grenache
    Registered Users Posts: 6,477 ✭✭✭grenache


    Azhrei wrote: »
    If you born here, you're Irish, If you've lived here since you were a child, then you're half Irish, and half wherever you came from.
    So a person could have been born here to foreign parents, spent one week of their childhood here, and the rest in another country, and you would regard them as Irish? Irish citizen maybe, at a stretch, but nothing else.

    Also by your definition, people such as Ronan O'Gara and Paul McGrath are only "half Irish" since they were not born in the country despite being raised and brought up in Ireland? :confused:

    With respect, that's absolute rubbish.

    Being born in a stable does not make one a donkey.


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    #180
    gbee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,388 ✭✭✭gbee


    grenache wrote: »
    Also by your definition, people such as Ronan O'Gara and Paul McGrath are only "half Irish" since they were not born in the country despite being raised and brought up in Ireland? :confused:

    With respect, that's absolute rubbish.

    Being born in a stable does not make one a donkey.
    You are if your mother is an Ass.

    And your other point, it may be rubbish, but there are many 'Irish' sportsstars who are less than appreciated for the same reason.


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    #181
    Esel
    Registered Users Posts: 22,039 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    gbee wrote: »
    ...there are many 'Irish' sports stars who are less than appreciated for the same reason.
    Who are they? Who does not appreciate them?

    Not your ornery onager



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