Magic!

mysteria · 23-12-2005 5:04pm

Zillah to me! "Well I do. You're a hypocrite. You condemn me personally for asking questions about your practices, and yet If I were to do the same I'd be lambasted. Hell, your assaulting me for even daring to not instantly accept vague half answers."
Ah poor baby, I rest my case!

solas · 23-12-2005 5:08pm

zillah wrote:

Sometimes I just don't get people...

Bear with me for a minute.
There was an episode of voyager where Kes was beginning to develop her psychokinetic abilites. Tanis starts teachin her to move objects with her mind. when she demostrates this to Tuvok, she causes his blood temperature to rise and causes him to go into shock. (Cold Fire) The episode in a way gives an idea into how these things are achieved. Kes was able to integrate on a molecular level with the objects that she focused on. Be these rain clouds or water, once integrated she could do one of many things, she could begin molecular friction which caused Tuvoks blood to heat up, or in theory cause rain clouds to disperse.

Now, ithats a lot of science fiction but it comes close to the explaining in theory how some of this kind of "magic" is achieved.
but as to how its all done the answer is quite simple, it all comes down to faith.

{the concept of divine grace is more important to me though}

Zillah · 23-12-2005 5:13pm

For someone who can see the future you really dont understand order of events very well do you Mysteria...

Ah poor baby, I rest my case!

And "hypocrite" isn't so much an insult as it is a criticism, a criticism I stand by. Now "hostile cow", thats an insult.

Solas wrote:

Bear with me for a minute.
There was an episode of voyager

I remember that episode. Now that I think of it, why didn't the crew run all sorts of fancy brian scans to work out how she did it...

mysteria · 23-12-2005 5:17pm

That's actually a very good example of how Magick works Solas, telekinesis is scientifically recorded as an ability possessed by some.(The ability to move objects by mental concentration).The over-heating bit is Sci-Fi with no Scientific basis (to my knowledge anyway). I know some of the star trek authors, they live in Wicklow, and do their research (that's writers of the current and recent series, not the Golden Oldies)

solas · 23-12-2005 5:18pm

I remember that episode. Now that I think of it, why didn't the crew run all sorts of fancy brian scans to work out how she did it...

as far as I know it was a very acceptable form of ..eh..being for some species. Tuvok is vulcan and vulcans are known for their ability to respect the unseen higher levels of energy, he was teaching kess how to control or disciplne these abilties through meditation.
Ther are a history of species who operate on these levels, from betaziods to the Q and you just know theres no point in scanning the q's brain. In other instances Deanna has been the subject of experiemnts when necessary.

btw zillah, thers no need to for personal abuse, I dont really feel I should have to explain this to you at this stage. Consider this a warning and take a deep breath.

solas · 23-12-2005 5:21pm

mysteria wrote:

I know some of the star trek authors, they live in Wicklow, and do their research

I did not know that. very interesting.

Zillah · 23-12-2005 5:21pm

mysteria wrote:

telekinesis is scientifically recorded as an ability possessed by some.(The ability to move objects by mental concentration).

Bullshit. Ordinarily I'd sugar coat that but im in no mood for it. You are wrong. What rag have you been reading?

mysteria · 23-12-2005 5:30pm

Now you might be able to understand why we are reluctant to share Arcane wisdom with the un-initiated. Some start out as apparently intelligent,interested individuals who might gain a little more insight into an admittedly confusing field. But the the real persona emerges when they don't get their way. So for everyone out there who wants to learn Magickal Fire-making, I suggest you buy a box of matches and stop bothering people who work for free in hospitals trying to bring comfort and healing to dying cancer patients, and spend time trying to encourage interested talented young people to develop their skills. I've posted for the benefit of everyone who reads the board, not just the one who asked the questions!
And I'm just a fun-lovin' spiritual party animal.

mysteria · 23-12-2005 5:32pm

Try reading books by Russell Targ and Keith Harary. If you have time between insults.

mysteria · 23-12-2005 5:37pm

Now its my turn.(and remember you don't have to answer if you don't want to.
1. Are you over 13yrs old?(If not you're forgiven)
2. What are your academic qualifications?
3. How many books have you written?
4.From what source did you get your enlightening information re Telekinesis
5.Can you levitate?

Zillah · 23-12-2005 5:38pm

Oh please, you're so insecure in your beliefs that you dismiss questions as cynical and confrontational. You, my little hermetic, were the one to become confrontational. I'd show you more respect if you'd deign to return the favour.

And in a forum discussion it is wholly insufficient to offhandedly mention an author or two when making a claim such as telekenesis has been scientifically proven.

CodeMonkey · 23-12-2005 5:38pm

You guys really don't see what zillah or a lot of sceptics have asked before do you? We're not saying magic isn't real. We're saying great, magic can be used to make all these things happen like you guys claimed. We don't care how it works at the moment, lets just establish that it works. Show us some results like a Tuvok who's blood was boiled.

You've healed someone? Great, showus their medical records before your treatment and the medical records after a treatment. This is not a challenge to you or asking for proof. It's just the only way we can see that someone really was healed by your magic. There are however always some convient reason why you can't show us the results.

In the world of star trek, if someone tells me Kes used her psychokinetic abilities to boil tuvok's blood I won't believe it. I don't even care how she did it or how it works. Just show me tuvok. Can you show me a tuvok or someone you have directly influenced using abilities outside of my understand? Oh wait, I need to have those abilities before I can see it or believe it? Damn, that's convenient...

Zillah · 23-12-2005 5:42pm

mysteria wrote:

1. Are you over 13yrs old?(If not you're forgiven)

Yes, and I require no forgiveness.

2. What are your academic qualifications?

None/ irrelevant.

3. How many books have you written?

None/irrelevant.

4.From what source did you get your enlightening information re Telekinesis

Where did you get your information that people aren't a hundred feet tall?

5.Can you levitate?

Not to my knowledge.

solas · 23-12-2005 5:45pm

code monkey wrote:

Show us some results like a Tuvok who's blood was boiled.

I'm really only a participant in the discussion, I haven't made any claims. While the example you gave is from a science fiction series, I'm sure if you do a google you will find a lot of the techniques by zen monks or other hghly trained martial artists use a similar based concept of being able to control their chi to the extent that reduces physical harm to their bodies or can repel an attack. Or something like that. I'm not in the mood for googling to find out.

Zillah · 23-12-2005 5:52pm

solas wrote:

I'm really only a participant in the discussion, I haven't made any claims. While the example you gave is from a science fiction series, I'm sure if you do a google you will find a lot of the techniques by zen monks or other hghly trained martial artists use a similar based concept of being able to control their chi to the extent that reduces physical harm to their bodies or can repel an attack. Or something like that. I'm not in the mood for googling to find out.

I think he was just borrowing your Tuvok metaphor to represent a tangible example of a magical result.

In reference to monks and chi, I've actually learned a good bit about this. A monk that can smash rocks with his fist may think he's using chi, but what they do can be explained with psychology and biology.

There was one example where a master used directed chi blasts to knock people out without even touching them. To test his claims a psychologist submitted himself to the technique and it had no effect on him. His explanation was that the collapsing students was a result of the power of suggestion. All the demonstrations of the techniques were done in a group environment between dominant master and supplicant students.

solas · 23-12-2005 5:58pm

I'll have a look later on see if I can find what I'm talking about. I know of a guy who (doctor, raised by monks) who can do some amazing things. One of his students was showing off one day so he handed him his knife which he (the student) was messing about with and told him to make his move. He (teacher) deliberately didn't make a move when the student took a swipe and landed one on him, but the blade left no mark. His skin didn't break at all after receiving what would ordinarily have caused a sever puncture wound.

[re reading that I don't know if I explained it very well, but you get the gist]

mysteria · 23-12-2005 6:03pm

I have dozens of Doctors I work with because I have medical qualifications as well, and have lectured in Trinity and several hospitals.I joined this discussion originally because I felt there might be people who would like advice from an expert in this field (I have two Doctorates as well as other qualifications), not to "prove the existence" of any powers or abilities. There are so many people out there with an interest in the paranormal, and all that's on offer is the TV Derk Acorah's and Uri Geller-type showmen. But that does not in any way take away from the fact that this field is a Science. I found a missing body in New Jersey for the FBI in'91, but I'm aware of the hundreds of "fortune tellers and so-called psychics" who are total chancers who should not be allowed take money from vulnerable people. My aim is to help others discover that we have inner resources we can develop and use to improve quality of life. Not to prove that I have Magickal powers (which I have, but don't need to prove it as my record is extremely well documented)
So hope this explains where I'm coming from. I respect your beliefs, but I don't expect anything from any of you. If there are people genuinely interested, feel free to ask and I'll help all I can.

Zillah · 23-12-2005 6:08pm

mysteria wrote:

feel free to ask and I'll help all I can.

Oh I'm not opening that pandora's box again.

mysteria · 23-12-2005 6:11pm

It was'nt directed at you. Ignorance is bliss! There's always one........

solas · 23-12-2005 6:13pm

mysteria wrote:

I joined this discussion originally because I felt there might be people who would like advice from an expert in this field

I'd like some healing if you can offer it.

mysteria · 23-12-2005 6:22pm

Solas you can send me a pm and we'll discuss.No money, donations etc involved, can't promise miracles but will do my best. I was hoping to find a few open-minded people interested in doing experimental work re Radionic/Psionic Healing online. Thanks for asking. Only asking for pm because I don't want hostile element nitpicking every word I say, I'm quite surprised at being so blatantly insulted.Maybe I'll post a new thread re Experimental Psionics.

Zillah · 23-12-2005 6:24pm

EDIT: Oh forget it.

mysteria · 23-12-2005 6:27pm

The placebo effect is well-documented, but your ONE example of 1 person's theory is hardly proof now is it??

mysteria · 23-12-2005 6:28pm

Checkmate!Back of the net!

solas · 23-12-2005 6:37pm

doesn't matter to me if its placebo zillah, if it can make me better than thats good enough. I fi understand it correctly the concept of healing is to direct your own energy to work for you not against you and if it works to make me feel better, however thats achieved I would be glad of it.

Ozzy · 23-12-2005 6:40pm

mysteria wrote:

In fairness, I did answer the questions.(see my no. 13) and tried to help.

Hello, I'm back again.

Hmm ok. I've read your post #13
It seems you 'stopped rain when you felt it was absolutely necessary'... and 'You have no need to prove yourself to anyone because your work speaks for itself'...
Right ok of course... how silly of me, that answers all of Zillah's questions. Thank you for that.

Oh by the by, did I mention I can transform turds into diamonds with the power of my mind? Yes, but I can't go into detail on a public forum. And if you don't believe me, well... **** you I know I can.

Here's how questioning and answering works..
"Has this thread answered any of the questions from the OP?"
"No, it hasn't..." And in my opinion it won't.

... Good questions though.

mysteria · 23-12-2005 6:45pm

We all possess an inner self-healing mechanism. We can learn to activate it and use it for self help, but sometimes we need others to help. And the placebo effect is very powerful, but I totally agree with you Solas, it does'nt matter what causes improvement once you feel better.

solas · 23-12-2005 6:51pm

i just need to jump start my engines and someone with great big jumper cables.

Kernel · 23-12-2005 6:54pm

mysteria wrote:

That's actually a very good example of how Magick works Solas, telekinesis is scientifically recorded as an ability possessed by some.

Actually, scientific studies in telekinesis have only ever proven that telekinetics may exist and the most it can influence was the movement of a compass, which is not exactly Gandalf grade magic, now is it?

Seriously people, you are talking about Star Trek science FICTION and other esoteric writings, that nobody has ever been able to verify outside of their own altered states of consciousness. I've had this argument at length with Sapien before, and it ended inconclusively. Many people delude themselves into magic, because they *want* to. That's simply it.

I've said it before, if someone can prove us wrong, please do it, video yourselves summoning a non earthly intelligence, and let us decide based on that evidence. No point reeling off theoretical information from esoteric books, verbatim, since that only proves that you've memorised the content of the books.

mysteria · 23-12-2005 6:55pm

Sorry my mistake. it's no. 3, to save you the trouble of looking it up here we go.
O.K. I'll "spell" it out as you've obviously not really read what i hoped was a helpful reply..
1. "Magick is manipulation of Energy to produce a specific result"
2. "Can't give specific spells in a public forum"
3."Every spell is successful to a lesser or greater extent, and a lot of contributory factors can affect the outcome".
I'm attempting to cram a lifetime's learning into a few sentences. We are talking about Esoteric, Arcane, Occult studies and those words all mean "hidden or secret". Try asking a priest to explain and prove his work. Sorry, I'd turn you into a frog to prove my point lol but I'm no Uri Geller. I'd prefer to mend a sore back than bend a spoon!"
Now if you're actually interested you can ask me anything you want. But from your reply your another messer like Zillah so don't waste my precious time!

Magic!

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