Phoenix Park tunnel

LXFlyer · 28-05-2015 11:17pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

20 Each way or in total?

20 each way - they can already cope with 12 trains an hour each way.

Sam Russell · 29-05-2015 11:32am

The Dart will only be at 6 per hour for a 10 min service. So plenty of room for PPT traffic, wherever it goes.

A train every three minutes - might effect the level crossings between Booterstown and GCD.

LXFlyer · 29-05-2015 11:53am

Sam Russell wrote: »

The Dart will only be at 6 per hour for a 10 min service. So plenty of room for PPT traffic, wherever it goes.

A train every three minutes - might effect the level crossings between Booterstown and GCD.

There won't be 20 trains an hour beyond Grand Canal Dock.

There will only be the 6 DARTs plus a limited number of peak extras.

As stated numerous times, the Kildare line trains will terminate at Grand Canal Dock.

loyatemu · 29-05-2015 12:57pm

They'll have to sort out station dwell times if they want to move that number of trains - currently trains often spend 2 mins+ sitting at the platform.

alofek · 02-06-2015 2:39pm

Back to the original question re Phibsboro and a train station, the Irish Times has a report today on forthcoming local area plan for Phibsboro, which is to cover development there between now and 2021.
According to that report, the possibility of a station at Cross Guns is put forward but not within the time frame of the local area plan, so we will have to wait 6 to 7 years at least if that is the case and priorities don't shift.

Pete_Cavan · 02-06-2015 4:34pm

alofek wrote: »

Back to the original question re Phibsboro and a train station, the Irish Times has a report today on forthcoming local area plan for Phibsboro, which is to cover development there between now and 2021.
According to that report, the possibility of a station at Cross Guns is put forward but not within the time frame of the local area plan, so we will have to wait 6 to 7 years at least if that is the case and priorities don't shift.

Yeah I read that earlier. My first thought was, if they want to develop a station there at any time in the future, surely it needs to be designated as such now to prevent developments which might affect the construction of the station whenever they get round to it?

alofek · 02-06-2015 4:41pm

Would have thought the exact same myself especially considering there is specific mention made of some of the relatively idle lands that might be needed for compulsory purchase ie Hedigan's pub car park, the Des Kelly Carpets site.
It would seem insanity to be planning high density development around Phibsboro and in so doing not future proof the area for public transport links in the future.

Paddico · 09-06-2015 1:03pm

Very ambitious timelines but I thought it was worth posting

http://www.herald.ie/news/plans-for-four-trains-an-hour-in-phoenix-park-tunnel-next-year-31050092.html

Dunno if this has been posted before

LXFlyer · 09-06-2015 1:50pm

That article was wrong - what is proposed is 1 train per hour off-peak and 4 trains at peak periods (which translates as two trains per hour).

Not sure why you think it's an ambitious timeline?

The city centre resignalling project will be finished by early 2016 facilitating these services.

1huge1 · 09-06-2015 4:41pm

So that's what the work going on at the side of drumcondra station is, it will be a new entrance should cut a good 30 seconds off my commute

Effects · 09-06-2015 4:45pm

1huge1 wrote: »

should cut a good 30 seconds off my commute

You won't know what to do with yourself with all that extra time!

09-06-2015 6:34pm

Effects wrote: »

You won't know what to do with yourself with all that extra time!

Time enough to reply to a message on Boards!

Paddico · 10-06-2015 4:08pm

lxflyer wrote: »

That article was wrong - what is proposed is 1 train per hour off-peak and 4 trains at peak periods (which translates as two trains per hour).

Not sure why you think it's an ambitious timeline?

The city centre resignalling project will be finished by early 2016 facilitating these services.

There is a lot more than just signalling for this project + its Irish rail were talking about

LXFlyer · 10-06-2015 4:14pm

Paddico wrote: »

There is a lot more than just signalling for this project + its Irish rail were talking about

Perhaps you can outline exactly what you think would take so long and what additional measures are needed?

The main issue is increasing the capacity at Connolly and crossing the loop line from Connolly southwards and getting the turn back platform at Grand Canal Dock up and running - all of that is covered by the City Centre re-signalling project.

kc56 · 10-06-2015 11:17pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Perhaps you can outline exactly what you think would take so long and what additional measures are needed?

The main issue is increasing the capacity at Connolly and crossing the loop line from Connolly southwards and getting the turn back platform at Grand Canal Dock up and running - all of that is covered by the City Centre re-signalling project.

Additional cross-over need at P10 Hueston to allow North bound traffic to get to the left track in the Tunnel. Also, re-refurbishment of P10.

LXFlyer · 11-06-2015 9:34am

kc56 wrote: »

Additional cross-over need at P10 Hueston to allow North bound traffic to get to the left track in the Tunnel. Also, re-refurbishment of P10.

Even if that is in the cards, installing a crossover and associated signalling is something that is reasonably easy to do.

However, it's possible if these are extra trains on top of the existing services that they may bypass Heuston altogether.

kc56 · 11-06-2015 11:02am

lxflyer wrote: »

Even if that is in the cards, installing a crossover and associated signalling is something that is reasonably easy to do.

However, it's possible if these are extra trains on top of the existing services that they may bypass Heuston altogether.

All is possible but until IE/NTA actually publish a timetable we're just guessing. Questions - will the services start at Hazelhatch, Newbridge, Kildare or Portlaoise???

Carawaystick · 11-06-2015 11:17am

lxflyer wrote: »

However, it's possible if these are extra trains on top of the existing services that they may bypass Heuston altogether.

You mean not stop at Heuston. They'll still be going through Heuston station.

LXFlyer · 11-06-2015 11:30am

Carawaystick wrote: »

You mean not stop at Heuston. They'll still be going through Heuston station.

Well they won't "go through Heuston" if they stay on the running lines - there are no platforms on them.

They would bypass the station altogether.

LXFlyer · 11-06-2015 11:32am

kc56 wrote: »

All is possible but until IE/NTA actually publish a timetable we're just guessing. Questions - will the services start at Hazelhatch, Newbridge, Kildare or Portlaoise???

I understand that, but my whole point is that this is not an ambitious timeline at all.

The logical place for them to start (to me) would be the bay at Hazelhatch, taking a connection out of longer distance trains there.

1huge1 · 11-06-2015 6:14pm

kc56 wrote: »

All is possible but until IE/NTA actually publish a timetable we're just guessing. Questions - will the services start at Hazelhatch, Newbridge, Kildare or Portlaoise???

According to this article mentioned above http://www.herald.ie/news/plans-for-four-trains-an-hour-in-phoenix-park-tunnel-next-year-31050092.html

They will be coming from as far as Portlaoise.

"It is anticipated that initially, there will be four services per hour from Kildare/Portlaoise through the Phoenix Park tunnel, terminating in Grand Canal Dock in peak hours, with an hourly off-peak service," the letter said.

Commuters boarding trains for the capital at Portlaoise, Portarlington, Monastarevin, Kildare and Newbridge stations will benefit from the re-opening of the 692-metre tunnel.

Paddico · 12-06-2015 1:42pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Perhaps you can outline exactly what you think would take so long and what additional measures are needed?

The main issue is increasing the capacity at Connolly and crossing the loop line from Connolly southwards and getting the turn back platform at Grand Canal Dock up and running - all of that is covered by the City Centre re-signalling project.

These changes will need a complete overhall in schedules of all inbound and out bound Dublin train traffic. This means redesigning, implementing, testing and retesting all this new process, all this on top of the new signalling. Add to that, potential infrastructure changes like tracks changes at stations, additional access points and changes at Connolly. All this could add up to two 24 months ready time so will be very surprised if this runs in 2015

Paddico · 12-06-2015 1:43pm

Will there be a stop a Heuston for this service. I think this will be a missed opportunity to give passengers the option of getting off at either station

LXFlyer · 12-06-2015 2:06pm

Paddico wrote: »

These changes will need a complete overhall in schedules of all inbound and out bound Dublin train traffic. This means redesigning, implementing, testing and retesting all this new process, all this on top of the new signalling. Add to that, potential infrastructure changes like tracks changes at stations, additional access points and changes at Connolly. All this could add up to two 24 months ready time so will be very surprised if this runs in 2015

The ongoing re-signalling changes will require a complete overhaul of the Connolly side of IE operations, but that's inevitable with the proposed 10 minute DART service. That is due to be implemented in early 2016.

That's something that will be worked on as we speak and prepared in advance.

Revised timetables and re-signalling have been implemented across the IE network before without any of the extended timeframes that you suggest are involved. In fact in the normal course of events, IE review their entire timetable on an annual basis.

It certainly will not take anything like the timeframe that you suggest from now. These services were never due to start this year, but are due to happen in 2016 after the re-signalling project is completed and the 10 minute DART service starts.

On the Heuston side, the impact on other services may be less than you imagine, if for example, they start at peak times at Hazelhatch. We are only talking about two trains per hour at peak times.

Off-peak there are plenty of spare paths on the lines out of Heuston.

LXFlyer · 12-06-2015 2:07pm

Paddico wrote: »

Will there be a stop a Heuston for this service. I think this will be a missed opportunity to give passengers the option of getting off at either station

If they are extra services on top of the existing timetable on the Kildare line, it's possible they may not serve Heuston. If they do stop at Heuston, that would require an additional cross-over and associated signalling works in order to access platform 10 in either direction.

Initially I understood that was the plan, but soundings that I've heard lately suggest that may not happen.

If they are extra trains over and above the existing timetable that will not be such a big issue as existing customers would all be covered, but it would seem to be a wasted opportunity.

Aard · 12-06-2015 3:15pm

Not serving Heuston would not be the end of the world. Passengers heading to Heuston can still change at an earlier stop. But Heuston isn't really a destination in and of itself, as the vast majority of people would continue into town by Luas/bus/taxi/bike.

AngryLips · 12-06-2015 5:28pm

...kind of like the Shannon stopover of railways

12-06-2015 6:32pm

All it needs is for all the intercity trains to stop once at one commuter station, the one that allows for the most convenient (shortest wait) for the next cross city train.
Then all travellers on the Kildare line will have easy access to the East of Dublin.

antoinolachtnai · 12-06-2015 7:02pm

It depends on the frequency really. If the frequency isn't greater than every 15 minutes, it is hard to see how it wouldn't be faster to go to Heuston and get the Luas to the eastern part of the city.

Aard · 12-06-2015 8:35pm

AngryLips wrote: »

...kind of like the Shannon stopover of railways

I'm not sure I understand the analogy

Phoenix Park tunnel

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