I'm gay.

OMG

I'm in tears reading spacetimes post because I totally resonate with that too. I've been crying on and off reading so many different stories the last 2-3 weeks.

SpaceTime wrote:

I just wanted to share my story as I think sometimes the B in LGBT is a bit forgotten about .. The T even more so!

Very much so. And if you are not sure if you are 50/50, 60/40 or what you will turn out to be when the dust settles you are afraid to say you are X,Y,Z as then you are labelled that and can't rub out the tick and put it in another box without all the scepticism and jumping down your throat.

Great to see so many people liberated by the decision.

Hopefully now we can all move on from the self congratulatory 'great little country so we are' muck to the effect that people's sexual preferences are no longer a matter of public debate.

DeVore wrote: »

I wanted to post this publically for two reasons.
A. F*ck fear. I've spent a lot of my life giving the two fingers to fear but here I was utterly afraid of this. Afraid people would see me in a different light, or react differently to me or whatever. Just afraid. And fear eats you from inside so this is my over-reaction to that
B. Seeing GAA players and ministers step up and challenge the stereotypes of the "sit-com limp wristed poodle carrier" helped me come to terms with myself. I didn't want to admit to myself I was gay because I genuinely didn't see a role model that I could identify with. They have helped me and I owe that forwards.

What a superb post. As someone who's not 'in' but not completely 'out' either, there's so much of it that resonates with me. The fear, the self loathing, the hoping you're not, is there anything that can be done about it, what will my friends and family think etc - all things I've experienced and am still experiencing to a certain extent. I don't think I would have told anyone if it wasn't for the marriage referendum, I had consigned myself to being permanently single.

Your reference to the "sit-com limp wristed poodle carrier" being a stereotype of gay people really struck a chord with me. When I was young (way before I realised what way I was wired), the only gay person I knew of was Shirley Temple Bar (who used to present Telly Bingo for anyone who remembers that). That made me think there was something seriously wrong with gay people. Then any other gay person I saw on TV or met in person was so different to your average lad, or at least what society expected men to be like. I couldn't relate to them at all. Despite the remarks other men make about us, I always found it easier to get on with straight lads, I always found I had more in common with them. There was certainly no 'normal' gay person, someone who was like any other 'normal' man and was into sport or other typical male interests. As some of my other posts show, I'm a massive car enthusiast, and even though I don't post there, I also love rugby and to a lesser extent have an interest in a variety of sports from snooker to GAA to tennis and I'll even watch a bit of cycling if it's on telly. I've no interest in the things gay men are supposed to be interested in, like the X-Factor, Eurovision, shopping and fashion. Not knowing of other gay men that were like straight men in every other way apart from orientation made it hard for me to come to terms with it.

Ursula Halligan's statement that for years she was the biggest homophobe going could just as easily apply to me, I was so shocked and ashamed and embarrassed of who I was that initially the way I dealt with it was to go out of my way to convince people I was straight, talking (as young straight men do) about whatever z-list celebrity had a nice ass etc etc, but that's how I felt at the time.

I'm only in my 20s but there's been a massive sea change in my lifetime, there was no way even if I was more sure of myself I would have come out in school, then college did have LGBT societies obviously and the attitude was very different, but I still couldn't deal with it, even though everyone who does it at a younger age will tell you college is the right time to come out. But seeing the way people talk about it now, and especially amongst older people saying 'what's the big deal' is brilliant.

That's why the marriage equality referendum was always so much more than just allowing us equal rights - it was about acceptance, it's about saying to people younger than me who are worried about it that there's really no need and everything will work out. And for older people as well, who've felt trapped and in an internal prison as Ursula Halligan put it.

When Dónal Óg Cusask came out, that was quite an eye opener for me. At last, there was someone that really was like any other man! He didn't act, walk or talk any differently to any other (straight) man and was into sport. It was something that made it a lot easier for me to deal with. That along with college allowed me get to the stage where I was comfortable with myself (even if I wasn't prepared to tell anyone) and if the topic ever turned to 'the gays' I'd have no hesitation in saying I favoured equal rights, but I wouldn't argue about it too much - but it was certainly an improvement on being anti-gay people.

Then others came out like Gareth Thomas, Neil Patrick Harris, Conor Cusack and if I hadn't known I wouldn't have guessed, because they were like other 'regular' guys. Obviously Leo Varadkar coming out was another big eye opener, I did wonder why he didn't have a girlfriend but thought no more of it. Even to this day, especially with people who don't know me that well, I will refer to myself in the third person rather than saying it straight out, but at least I'm much more comfortable in defending our rights and won't take crap from anyone who says anything that's anti-LGBT rights or anti-LGBT people.

Even though at times I found the marriage campaign incredibly frustrating and any time Paddy Manning was inclined to say anything it used to put me in such an almighty rage, I'm glad it happened, it's given the OP the courage to be true to yourself, and even though I'm not quite at that stage yet with everyone, I know it's going to be much easier to have that talk with those I haven't told yet. What I found most gratifying about the campaign was the amount of straight people that were prepared to campaign for our rights and believed in it.

Looking back on it, it's really, really horrible the stress and strain we have to go through, I don't think any straight person really understands or comprehends what a mindf*** it is when you discover that your sexuality is different to almost everyone else's. When people say 'sure don't they (we) have civil partnership' it's actually so belittling, I think at times homophobia is so 'normal' you don't even realise it until you face up to it. As more and more people have come out, and as I've met more LGBT people, I've grown up and am nowhere near as judgemental about people who do conform to the disparaging gay stereotypes as I was before. Plus, I've also discovered a lot of gay people aren't like the (negative) stereotypes at all.

Anyway, sorry for spoiling your thread DeVore with my own situation and writing a 'lonely hearts' post. I've wanted to get this off my chest for a very long time I guess and fair play to you for doing this - it's given me the courage to bear all and speak the truth. Even as recently as a few weeks ago in this forum I was still implying that I wasn't gay and talking about how happy I would be for ye when I meant me as much as the rest of ye. I'm looking forward to going to my first ever pride later on this year, I'll actually be able to enjoy it now (I'm sure there'll be plenty of hot blokes to get my motor running as well:D).

I'm also sorry if I've offended anyone with what I've said, we all suffer enough at times without people like me trying to put down others who may be camp or whatever, so I'm genuinely not trying to add insult to injury.

Finally, to anyone who may be reading this and thinking of coming out, don't think about it any longer - do it! You don't need to tell everyone (I didn't, and haven't and frankly won't tell some), it's quite anti-climatic, and it's not going to solve all of your life problems, but it is such a weight off your shoulders. You'll feel so much better about yourself no longer having the feelings of guilt, shame, suicide (in some cases) - it's so liberating.

DeVore wrote: »

if we've been under-represented then all the more reason to step up and speak up.

Great line. Many non-camp gay guys have spoken out against camp gays, while stubbornly remaining in the closet.

Tbh though I think the world (or at least Ireland) is copping on to the idea that most gay guys are Just Like Them™.

DeVore wrote: »

"wow, you don't look gay" "you never acted gay" "I'd never have guessed".

These are some of the dumb things that well intentioned people say to me.

I've likened it to when Charlie Chaplain came third in a Charlie Chaplain look-a-like contest! I challenged one friend on it by tell him that what he was really saying was "I have such a warped view of what gay people are like, that I don't even recognise one when he's standing in front of me".

Three things I wanted to comment on about the recent posts

1. Please feel free to post anything you or anyone else thinks / wants to say about all of the topics being touched on. You aren't by any means "crashing my party"... its actually super cool to hear people say the things they have been saying in this thread.

2. I despised effeminate/camp people during my 20's and 30's. I felt like they presumed to represent the "gay community" and made it more difficult for me to identify or to tell anyone because the stereotypes were being reinforced. To an extent I still feel that way but:

3. I've come to admire people like Panti and others because they didn't have the soft option I had (which was to hide in plain sight). They stood up and fought to be who they were and unfortunately as a result gay people were portrayed as being exclusively like them. That's not their fault and they've done much of a trench-fighting in the war to be accepted. Its time others of us took up the slack and if we've been under-represented then all the more reason to step up and speak up.

Being "straight acting" isn't an act, I'm not being excessively butch as an over reaction... I'm me and that's that.... but in a funny way its a cruelty too. You hear every joke that lads would never say if there was a camp gay guy around. I cant tell you how many times I've seen an overtly gay guy leave a room or whatever and lads suddenly break out the "backs to the walls lads!" jokes. It isolated me even further because I would think "that's what they would say about you, if they knew". Now? Fnck em.... let them say what they like. Not my circus, not my monkeys.

Great post.

Again, so much I agree with.

'Straight acting' certainly is a loaded term, I suppose I would fall into that category, but it's certainly not an 'act' - it's just who I am.

I got the 'you don't act gay' comments as well, and even though it's idiotic, at least it's helped change some peoples' minds about us. That's the thing, the more people who say it the more it changes perceptions (easier said than done I know, and as I've said before, I'm not telling everyone - not everyone has the right to know that information). When I told my brother he told me he had no idea and assumed I was socially inept with women because I'd never had a girlfriend or made any effort at trying to chat women up on a night out:D!

In one sense for those of us that don't 'act gay' we've had it easy, in another we haven't. On the one hand, people don't treat me personally differently, which is always a fear if everyone knows or it's obvious. I don't see why I should need to make a public service announcement about it in work or whatever, not everyone has the right to know. I also don't want to spring it on someone I've just met. So, not 'acting gay' is advantageous from that point of view.

On the other hand, as you've said, I've come across disparaging remarks about gay people from other men and sometimes women as well, I guess if I was more feminine or it was more obvious I wouldn't have had to hear some of the things I've heard.

Anyway, I just wanted to say a few personal things, just to convince those who are still in the closet not to spend any more time in there! Since I've come out, I've found the courage to join a few LGBT networking groups (there's a staff network where I work and there's another one in the city I'm living in that does everything from table quizzes to eating out etc etc), and it's made me feel even better and more sure of myself. I can honestly say I'm more confident, more talkative, and my outlook on life is just much more positive. It's just nice to be me.

The latter in particular is (mostly) full of people my own age and it just shows how far stereotypes and labels can be removed from the reality of life. It was nice to meet couples talking about all the kind of things straight couples talk about in terms of doing up their house, going to visit friends, introducing both sets of parents to one another. Boring stuff in one sense but so lovely to see couples happily together just like straight people do.

I suppose I always felt bad about being gay because I always thought gay men and women conformed to the stereotypes and I didn't want to be associated with those (perceived) negative traits. As I've said before, seeing the various well known faces coming out before and during the referendum has made me realise that there are plenty in the community not like the negative ones.

Joining these groups as well as being an excuse to meet new people has made me realise it's not just gay celebrities that don't conform - it's actually most LGBT people I've met. They're not any different to your average straight person - but then again we're not different, we're just human beings like everyone else. And even if someone is stereotypical, so bloody what?