Just be honest with yourself. You're not a Catholic. That's ok.

Grandeeod · 09-04-2015 11:35am

I see it hasnt really kicked off yet. I'll be back later.

Fr_Dougal · 09-04-2015 11:35am

Zamboni wrote: »

The purpose of this thread is explore the significant difference between the number of people who identified as catholic in the 2011 census and the stats for weekly church going from Iona.
There are also statistics showing that over 30% of couples did not get married in a church in Ireland last year. Life will be difficult for them when they have children as the majority of state funded schools are allowed to refuse children without baptism certs.

I would speculate that the difference is there are a lot of people who don't have any active role or interest in the catholic church and they simply haven't critically evaluated their religious identification.
These are the people I am addressing in this thread.

So let's be honest for a second...
The last time you were in a church was a baptism, a wedding or a funeral (or to keep the folks happy)

You have had sex before marriage.

You disagree with the churches teaching on homosexuality.

You live in "sin".

You ticked the catholic box in the census "by default" without any critical self evaluation.

You wouldn't be mad about the idea of baptising your child but you want a school place and/or keep the parents/in laws happy.

You have had a child out of marriage and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.

You call yourself a "cultural" catholic.

If some of these ring through, then you probably aren't a Catholic.
But that's ok. Nobody has died.

All you have to do in the future is;
Don't bother ticking catholic in the census anymore.
Don't use a church for any life events.
Don't baptise you child for a school place. Instead call on your local TDs and demand equal access schooling for child from the state.

No big deal!
So whadd'ya think?

If some of these ring through but you do believe in transubstantiation, the resurrection of Christ and the Bible, then this thread is simply not directed at you. Rock on and have a good day.

Religion bashing is completely unwelcome in this thread.

:mad:

spacetweek · 09-04-2015 11:37am

Thurmansee wrote: »

I'd say there a significant percentage of People who ticked Catholic who don'the even believe in God.

According to a survey quoted by Atheist Ireland last year, around 8% of self-identified Irish Catholics do not believe in God.

Stark · 09-04-2015 11:37am

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

I think how you identify yourself your own personal choice and you shouldn't have to justify yourself to anyone.

Pretty sure lying on the census form is a crime.

Shenshen · 09-04-2015 11:38am

I never really understood that, personally.

Why insist that you are a member of a club you disagree with?

I mean, would you call yourself a vegetarian if you're eating meat every day?
Why cling to the label so much when it doesn't reflect your personal values any more?

09-04-2015 11:39am

I genuinely believe most atheists are much worse than devouts of any religion.

MRnotlob606 · 09-04-2015 11:40am

Let the annual anti-catholic bashing games begin !

Or should I say the daily ?

catallus · 09-04-2015 11:40am

Can one not be a sinner and still be a catholic?

Isn't that what the whole thing is about?

The Backwards Man · 09-04-2015 11:42am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I genuinely believe most atheists are much worse than devouts of any religion.

Definitely more devoted anyway

WeHaveToGoBack · 09-04-2015 11:42am

catallus wrote: »

Can one not be a sinner and still be a catholic?

Isn't that what the whole thing is about?

Go to Confession.
But then, most Catholics dont bother with that either.

Shenshen · 09-04-2015 11:42am

catallus wrote: »

Can one not be a sinner and still be a catholic?

Isn't that what the whole thing is about?

Isn't the idea though that you repent your sins?

Can't imagine many people on here repent that last time they were in bed with the girlfriend/boyfriend, or missed mass for a good Sunday-morning lie-in.

Nollog · 09-04-2015 11:44am

kylith wrote: »

Why so?

I'd say it's the tone.

It's not as "you could like totally think about it, duude", as it is "You need to think about it, you'll realise how very wrong you are and how right I am!".

09-04-2015 11:45am

The Backwards Man wrote: »

Definitely more devoted anyway

It's like, I identify myself as Catholic. I don't go to mass. So. The. Hell. What? What does it matter to you?

Stop trying to shove your belief structure, which is what it is, down my throat.

Polo_Mint · 09-04-2015 11:45am

kneemos wrote: »

You think babtism is a deciding factor.

For me, Yes

Do I believe in heaven or Hell - No

Am I religious in any way - No

Am I an Catholic - Yes as I was baptised.

Would I tick a box saying im Catholic - Yes, See Above

If people selected their religion later on in life come tomorrow, in the next 20 years I believe you would have 100s of thousands of people with no religious beliefs and not registered to any religion.

For all the people who are baptised Catholic and say they are an Atheist, Have they actually contacted the Church to denounce their Religion?

If they haven't then they are registered Catholics and should tick the box.

In Germany it is very common to de register from the Catholic church.

Why- You have to pay Church tax monthly weather you attend church or not.

kylith · 09-04-2015 11:46am

catallus wrote: »

Can one not be a sinner and still be a catholic?

Isn't that what the whole thing is about?

Of course one can be Catholic and a sinner.

One can hardly be Catholic and not believe in any of the teachings of the Catholic Church though. As said already that's like saying you're a vegetarian while eating steak every day.

LDN_Irish · 09-04-2015 11:46am

/\/ollog wrote: »

I'd say it's the tone.

It's not as "you could like totally think about it, duude", as it is "You need to think about it, you'll realise how very wrong you are and how right I am!".

He's probably just puzzled that there are millions of people giving the RCC the mandate to speak for them and spread their nonsense throughout the world while knowing it's complete nonsense. It is quite mystifying when you think about how right the OP is and how wrong everyone who doesn't agree is.

ohnonotgmail · 09-04-2015 11:47am

Zamboni wrote: »

*SNIP*

All you have to do in the future is;
Don't bother ticking catholic in the census anymore.
Don't use a church for any life events.
Don't baptise you child for a school place. Instead call on your local TDs and demand equal access schooling for child from the state.

No big deal!
So whadd'ya think?

If some of these ring through but you do believe in transubstantiation, the resurrection of Christ and the Bible, then this thread is simply not directed at you. Rock on and have a good day.

Religion bashing is completely unwelcome in this thread.

Now call me cynical but is perhaps the bit in bold the whole purpose of this thread? that the rest of the OP is just a smokescreen?

Shenshen · 09-04-2015 11:48am

Polo_Mint wrote: »

For me, Yes

Do I believe in heaven or Hell - No

Am I religious in any way - No

Am I an Catholic - Yes as I was baptised.

Would I tick a box saying im Catholic - Yes, See Above

If people selected their religion later on in life come tomorrow, in the next 20 years I believe you would have 100s of thousands of people with no religious beliefs and not registered to any religion.

For all the people who are baptised Catholic and say they are an Atheist, Have they actually contacted the Church to denounce their Religion?

If they haven't then they are registered Catholics and should tick the box.

In Germany it is very common to de register from the Catholic church.

Why- You have to pay Church tax monthly weather you attend church or not.

I am German, and I have.
However, I'm given to understand that if you were baptised in Ireland, you no longer have the option to opt-out. The church decided to not accept your letter of defection any more a few years back.

kylith · 09-04-2015 11:49am

Polo_Mint wrote: »

For me, Yes

Do I believe in heaven or Hell - No

Am I religious in any way - No

Am I an Catholic - Yes as I was baptised.

Would I tick a box saying im Catholic - Yes, See Above

If people selected their religion later on in life come tomorrow, in the next 20 years I believe you would have 100s of thousands of people with no religious beliefs and not registered to any religion.

For all the people who are baptised Catholic and say they are an Atheist, Have they actually contacted the Church to denounce their Religion?

If they haven't then they are registered Catholics and should tick the box.

In Germany it is very common to de register from the Catholic church.

Why- You have to pay Church tax monthly weather you attend church or not.

The church closed the avenue to formally leave.

IMO baptism doesn't make me a Catholic. I had no choice in the matter, it was done before I could make an informed decision or voice an opinion. I was once signed up to Swim Ireland, but I'm sure as hell not a lifeguard any longer.

If there was a church tax here like there is in Germany there'd be a grand total of a couple of hundred people putting Catholic on the census.

Goshen · 09-04-2015 11:50am

I don't know what I am!! When last asked for my religion I replied 'none', though she knew by the head of me I was a bad bad catholic lol.

ohnonotgmail · 09-04-2015 11:50am

Shenshen wrote: »

I am German, and I have.
However, I'm given to understand that if you were baptised in Ireland, you no longer have the option to opt-out. The church decided to not accept your letter of defection any more a few years back.

this is correct. You can no longer have yourself removed from the baptismal roll.

Cr4pSnip3r · 09-04-2015 11:50am

Polo_Mint wrote: »

For all the people who are baptised Catholic and say they are an Atheist, Have they actually contacted the Church to denounce their Religion?

If they haven't then they are registered Catholics and should tick the box.

So, in this thread, it's not cool for OP to try make people think about what they do in the next census, but it's cool for you to tell me that because someone else decided I should be baptised, I am forced to consider myself Catholic (in the eyes of the state at the very least)? Now that's just mad.

Shenshen · 09-04-2015 11:52am

Polo_Mint wrote: »

For me, Yes

Do I believe in heaven or Hell - No

Am I religious in any way - No

Am I an Catholic - Yes as I was baptised.

Would I tick a box saying im Catholic - Yes, See Above

Question : If it had been necessary to circumsice you as a baby, would you now consider yourself Jewish?

The Backwards Man · 09-04-2015 11:53am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's like, I identify myself as Catholic. I don't go to mass. So. The. Hell. What? What does it matter to you?

Stop trying to shove your belief structure, which is what it is, down my throat.

In the future atheism will be known as the counterweight religion, the yang to the yin, night to the day, Hardy to the Laurel.

One coin, two sides.

Zamboni · 09-04-2015 11:53am

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Now call me cynical but is perhaps the bit in bold the whole purpose of this thread? that the rest of the OP is just a smokescreen?

Don't be cynical. You are correct

There is without a doubt a secondary point here to highlight that the growing numbers of people who do not identify or participate in any religion need to understand that their self identification will impact their the access of their future children to state funded education.
If 30% of people are getting married outside of church then they need to realise fairly sharpish that 90% of schools are legally allowed to discriminate in favour of children with baptism certs and the government policies are based on census statistics.

Shenshen · 09-04-2015 11:54am

The Backwards Man wrote: »

In the future atheism will be known as the counterweight religion, the yang to the yin, night to the day, Hardy to the Laurel.

One coin, two sides.

Actually, I expect food and "healthy lifestyle" to become that counterweight. People show much more fervent belief in that these days.

WeHaveToGoBack · 09-04-2015 11:54am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's like, I identify myself as Catholic. I don't go to mass. So. The. Hell. What? What does it matter to you?

Stop trying to shove your belief structure, which is what it is, down my throat.

The thing is, it does matter. Its because of religion that gay people cant get married (yet), people couldn't get divorced until recently, people cant get abortions, people who are truthful about their beliefs cant get their child into a school. People may think their beliefs don't affect others, but they most certainly do.

crockholm · 09-04-2015 11:54am

I have a friend who says that he weighs 13 and a half stone,in truth,he would be about fifteen stone.Why does he say it? More pertinently-Why should I care?

Ought I Point out to him that he is,in my opinion not 13 and a half stone whenever the subject is brought up.

If I did,people might rightly label me an asshole for being so anal about it.

It's his business and once again, why should I care?

09-04-2015 11:55am

Shenshen wrote: »

Actually, I expect food and "healthy lifestyle" to become that counterweight. People show much more fervent belief in that these days.

Don't get me started on how radical those extremists are.

kneemos · 09-04-2015 11:55am

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

this is correct. You can no longer have yourself removed from the baptismal roll.

Doesn't matter when it comes down to you considering yourself a Catholic or not.

Just be honest with yourself. You're not a Catholic. That's ok.

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