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BMW timing chain problem

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    #32
    boosabum
    Registered Users Posts: 448 ✭✭boosabum


    I had a similar type issue but luckily enough the car was under warranty (bought privately after being imported), only had the car a few weeks. Dropped it into my local BMW dealer and got a new engine. I used to speak to a guy based in the UK (although he kept saying he was in Dublin) and between him and the local dealer, they both seemed to say that BMW were big on the goodwill for this issue so i'm surprised your getting such a negative response.
    Try other BMW dealers and see, make sure your the registered owner on the BMW website too as they tend to chaeck this first.


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    #33
    Stallingrad
    Registered Users Posts: 4,141 ✭✭✭Stallingrad


    Sorry for your trouble OP. You'd really want to be off your head to buy a BMW diesel these days.


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    #34
    Moneymaker
    Registered Users Posts: 9,846 ✭✭✭Moneymaker


    Unreal that such a "premium" brand had an issue this serious for so long.

    And the general public think these 4 cylinder tractors are the best thing since sliced bread.

    German Engineering is such a fallacy.


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    #35
    landmarkjohn
    Registered Users Posts: 699 ✭✭✭landmarkjohn


    Stallingrad wrote: »
    Sorry for your trouble OP. You'd really want to be off your head to buy a BMW diesel these days.

    The more I read on this issue the more incredulous it seems, and for the issue to carry on for years..... is it really a design issue or are these extended oil changes to blame?

    Anyone know how the equivalent Mercedes E class is stacking up against the 520D, it must have it beat on reliability anyway?


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    #36
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    This is in German, but this issue is, of course, well known in Germany:
    http://www.1erforum.de/der-1er-bmw/n47-diesel-ubersicht-steuerkette-schabt-rasselt-gelaengt-gerissen-136698.html


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    #37
    boosabum
    Registered Users Posts: 448 ✭✭boosabum


    Watchdog on BBC had a big piece on it too last year so it's well know in UK also

    There's a crowd in the UK that will do the full rebuild for £2,500. I'd say they have had a lot of business and are good at it at this stage.

    When i brough my car in with an odd noise, BMW knew straight away. They said it could never recall all cars and work on the "goodwill" policy to solve failures people might have.

    This issue certainly sours any owners relationship if the full cost has to be taken, considering they are a nice car to drive.

    I took out an extended warranty and a friend of mine bought a 320D lately and took out the warranty also just in case issue happened too.

    It's worth doing but in the OP's case, it's too late for that advice


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    #38
    Paddy@CIRL
    Registered Users Posts: 1,899 ✭✭✭Paddy@CIRL


    Funnily enough, whilst the issue appears to be most prevalent on the N47 engines, it does affect the larger six cylinders and even the petrol models as well. You just don't hear about it as much because there were considerably more x16, x18 & x20 diesels sold here.

    I'm quite grateful that my own car was before this era of issues, but that was more luck than anything else as I didn't hear of this issue until long after I purchased. It definitely will affect what car I buy next seeing how poorly BMW Ireland treat their customers.


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    #39
    Stallingrad
    Registered Users Posts: 4,141 ✭✭✭Stallingrad


    Paddy@CIRL wrote: »
    I'm quite grateful that my own car was before this era of issues, but that was more luck than anything else as I didn't hear of this issue until long after I purchased. It definitely will affect what car I buy next seeing how poorly BMW Ireland treat their customers.

    Between Nikasl problems, Vanos failures and now this you have to time your purchase of a BMW very carefully. I think the last safe time to do so was between 3.30pm and 4.00pm, one Tuesday back in 1988.


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    #40
    Stallingrad
    Registered Users Posts: 4,141 ✭✭✭Stallingrad


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    This is in German, but this issue is, of course, well known in Germany:
    http://www.1erforum.de/der-1er-bmw/n47-diesel-ubersicht-steuerkette-schabt-rasselt-gelaengt-gerissen-136698.html

    F10/F11 affected as well, unbelievable. To be unable to rectify a problem known about for so long, time to fire some marketing people and hire some more engineers.


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    #41
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    One wonders though. The Wright Brother's plane had an engine with a timing chain in 1903. You think that in over 110 years the technology would be pretty much perfected. How did BMW manage to fcuk up a century of development?


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    #42
    George Dalton
    Registered Users Posts: 5,728 ✭✭✭George Dalton


    johnobertie2 wrote: »
    Incorrect
    The car is not fit for purpose
    He has a case especially as car has been main dealer serviced

    Nice theory but have you any evidence of a successful real world example?


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    #43
    Drummerboy08
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,102 ✭✭✭✭Drummerboy08


    George Dalton wrote: »
    Nice theory but have you any evidence of a successful real world example?

    I know a lad down the battle cruiser who told me he got a million quid in damages from BMW cos he was so upset about the chain going.

    Now he had a few Britney Spears on board so maybe the million quid bit might be a hundred grand but still. And he told me from his own mouth so it must be true.


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    #44
    Special Circumstances
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭Special Circumstances


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    One wonders though. The Wright Brother's plane had an engine with a timing chain in 1903. You think that in over 110 years the technology would be pretty much perfected. How did BMW manage to fcuk up a century of development?

    There's still nissan sunnys going on the same chain they came with, when did the last of those roll off the line? 20 years ago? Ultimate driving machines lad.

    I kinda hope that accountants were to blame at bmw. Worrying if there were no concerns raised by engineers.


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    #45
    landmarkjohn
    Registered Users Posts: 699 ✭✭✭landmarkjohn


    Paddy@CIRL wrote: »
    it does affect the larger six cylinders and even the petrol models as well

    :eek:
    really? Gulp... (not feeling quite so smug with 3.0 petrol!)


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    #46
    MetzgerMeister
    Registered Users Posts: 19,854 ✭✭✭✭MetzgerMeister


    landmarkjohn wrote: »
    :eek:
    really? Gulp... (not feeling quite so smug with 3.0 petrol!)

    Mine has the N54 engine so timing chain is at the front if it ever does go wrong. In the diesels, it's as the back so the whole engine has to come out which makes it so expensive.


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    #47
    John_Mc
    Registered Users Posts: 2,790 ✭✭✭John_Mc


    Have the N47 engine and have been worried since I found out about this issue. Time to purchase extended warranty while I still can!


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    #48
    Ferris
    Registered Users Posts: 2,283 ✭✭✭Ferris


    The BMW specialists on BMW-driver attribute a lot of the timing chain wear to the bonkers oil change intervals that BMW and most other manufacturers specify.This is done to sell cars to fleet buyers due to the 'reduction' in the cost of ownership. I wonder how many cars have this issue that have been serviced every 10k mls.

    Source from user BavarianCare (albeit about turbos but mentions timing chains):

    http://www.bmw-driver.net/forum/showthread.php?t=106409


    Good thread about chain failures on the M57 from ValdelisBMW:

    http://www.bmw-driver.net/forum/showthread.php?t=103194


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    #49
    keano25
    Registered Users Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭keano25


    I had a 08 520d with the chain issue. I bought it in February 2009 with 36k up on it.

    Personally I serviced the car every 7.5k or 8k miles, by service I mean oil and filter. Some say overkill but at around €75 euro a service I thought it was worth the piece of mind of my engine.

    I owned the car until this year when I sold it with 120k miles to a friend and it never gave an ounce of bother.

    So maybe there is something in the regular oil change and timing chain.


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    #50
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 65,004 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    I also have my own thoughts about oil service intervals and I don't believe in long life oil servicing. I change oil + filter in my own cars every 6k miles or 1 year, whichever comes first.


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    #51
    Ferris
    Registered Users Posts: 2,283 ✭✭✭Ferris


    keano25 wrote: »
    I had a 08 520d with the chain issue. I bought it in February 2009 with 36k up on it.

    Personally I serviced the car every 7.5k or 8k miles, by service I mean oil and filter. Some say overkill but at around €75 euro a service I thought it was worth the piece of mind of my engine.

    I owned the car until this year when I sold it with 120k miles to a friend and it never gave an ounce of bother.

    So maybe there is something in the regular oil change and timing chain.

    So the car had the issue, you fixed it and then serviced it every 7.5k or 8k miles?

    Either way, fair play to you. I've just bought a 530d and i'll be doing the same as you as regards regular servicing.


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    #52
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 65,004 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    Ferris wrote: »
    So the car had the issue, you fixed it and then serviced it every 7.5k or 8k miles?

    No, I think he meant he had the car with the N47 engine. But he never had the chain issue himself (perhaps because of regular oil servicing)


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    #53
    keano25
    Registered Users Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭keano25


    Ferris wrote: »
    So the car had the issue, you fixed it and then serviced it every 7.5k or 8k miles?

    Either way, fair play to you. I've just bought a 530d and i'll be doing the same as you as regards regular servicing.

    No as soon as I bought the car I started that service interval and the car never had the chain replaced prior or during my ownership.

    What year 530d? Would love one!


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    #54
    Ferris
    Registered Users Posts: 2,283 ✭✭✭Ferris


    keano25 wrote: »
    No as soon as I bought the car I started that service interval and the car never had the chain replaced prior or during my ownership.

    What year 530d? Would love one!

    '08, its a touring too which is what I was after. Its a great car alright.


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    #55
    landmarkjohn
    Registered Users Posts: 699 ✭✭✭landmarkjohn


    So off I go to check the reliability of my 2007 730i N52 engine and found this on honestjohn:

    "15-4-2014: Worldwide recall of 489,000 BMW cars with six-cylinder 3.0 litre petrol engines of which less than 3,000 are in the UK. These are: N51 (1991-1995), N52 (from 2005) and the N55 6-cylinder petrol turbo (from 2009). The screws for the housing of the adjustment unit of the variable camshaft timing (Vanos) for the intake and exhaust camshafts could potentially become loose or break. An engine warning lamp ‘should ’ appear in such circumstances, but if drivers experience any loss of power they should contact their BMW dealer immediately"

    What are the odds that local BMW dealer has no information on this recall? Or will I be pleasantly surprised?


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    #56
    Voodoomelon
    Registered Users Posts: 9,662 ✭✭✭Voodoomelon


    To me, it doesn't make much sense that regular oil changes would prevent this from happening. I think you'll probably find that the vast majority of these engines, maybe 95%+ of them will be perfectly fine.

    But those who have the timing chain failure are making a lot of noise online and in the media and rightly so. You'll also hear of mechanics saying they have "several of these failures a week" in the shop. Maybe so. But there's hundreds of thousands that aren't.


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    #57
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    One wonders though. The Wright Brother's plane had an engine with a timing chain in 1903. You think that in over 110 years the technology would be pretty much perfected. How did BMW manage to fcuk up a century of development?

    Listen, back in the 80's Honda couldn't bbuilda timing chain bike engine to save their life, culminating in the now infamous ' chocolate cam' VF750.
    They got so scalded by it they threw resources at it and over engineered the cure: VFR750F which dumped chains and went to gears. It not only saved, but elevated Honda to the pinnacle of bike engine design and went on to enjoy the rewards of it. To this day a late 80's and onwards Honda is still brilliant. From the mother and father of adversity then, a marketing coup.

    You'd think BMW would have come out of denial by now.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #58
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    Voodoomelon wrote: »
    To me, it doesn't make much sense that regular oil changes would prevent this from happening. I think you'll probably find that the vast majority of these engines, maybe 95%+ of them will be perfectly fine.

    But those who have the timing chain failure are making a lot of noise online and in the media and rightly so. You'll also hear of mechanics saying they have "several of these failures a week" in the shop. Maybe so. But there's hundreds of thousands that aren't.

    True, but can you guarantee you won't be in the 5% ?? This is not chump change you're talking about.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #59
    Voodoomelon
    Registered Users Posts: 9,662 ✭✭✭Voodoomelon


    Nope, and i'm not defending the design in any way, the chains seem to be made from cheese. But I very much doubt an oil service at 8k miles instead of 12-15k miles will save one of these engines from crapping itself.


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    #60
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    Voodoomelon wrote: »
    Nope, and i'm not defending the design in any way, the chains seem to be made from cheese. But I very much doubt an oil service at 8k miles instead of 12-15k miles will save one of these engines from crapping itself.

    I don't think it's a chain material issue. Chain run, tensioner and sprocket design are all suspect imho. The chain just happens to be the weakest (sic) link. .. and is the part that gives up first. .

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #61
    Voodoomelon
    Registered Users Posts: 9,662 ✭✭✭Voodoomelon


    I read something similar, the chain ends up being stretched if I recall.


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