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BMW timing chain problem

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  • 29-10-2014 6:54pm
    #1
    dricco
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭


    Sorry to be digging up an old thread but

    I've a 2011 520d(Manufactured in April) 68,000 miles bought a month ago privately. The car has a full BMW service history. It was bought from Joe Duffy dealership in Dublin with a 2 year service pack which ran out in April this year.

    I noticed a timing chain noise a few weeks ago and brought it to motorpark (BMW service center) here in Galway. They say it needs a timing chain and kit and it would cost €5,000. BMW are refusing to give a goodwill payment towards the repair, still fighting with them but all they are saying is that it was bought privately and not through their dealerships.

    I quoted their press release and said it has nothing about being bought privately and my car should meet their requirements for goodwill (relatively low mileage and full BMW service history) but all i get is "it was bought privately". I really don't know what to do now, anybody got any advise??


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    #2
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Moved to own thread.

    Did you also contact Duffy in Dublin or even BMW Ireland? I wonder if "bought privately" is even covered in some clause somewhere or are they just chancing it.


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    #3
    dricco
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭dricco


    Have been onto their customer service department who said "bought privately so no goodwill". I asked to speak to his manager and was called by the Irish customer service manager who said the same thing "bought privately so no goodwill" over and over again. She wouldn't even go back to the warranty department to contest. She said "they would contact me if my circumstances change"


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    #4
    Bigus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,940 ✭✭✭Bigus


    I think I'd be going legal , car is effectively not fit for purpose,

    Try and get a fixed price from a solicitor to get it to court, and maybe get a media company involved too, or maybe that RTE programme that got renault to pay for window regs, or consumer affairs first .

    I think it's time for a class action type action FAcebook page going against BMW timing chain issues.


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    #5
    Truckermal
    Registered Users Posts: 6,048 ✭✭✭Truckermal


    Bigus wrote: »
    I think I'd be going legal , car is effectively not fit for purpose,

    Try and get a fixed price from a solicitor to get it to court, and maybe get a media company involved too, or maybe that RTE programme that got renault to pay for window regs, or consumer affairs first .

    I think it's time for a class action type action FAcebook page going against BMW timing chain issues.

    FFS a car only 3 years old and you could say the engine is fcuked I would be speaking to a good solicitor at this stage. Funnily enough a Indy mechanic was telling me he had a client in lately with a 12 reg 520 and the chain was rattling mad in it...


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    #6
    bazz26
    Registered Users Posts: 51,185 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    Cannot help you with the legal side of who would be liable but OP if you are stuck paying for this then the chain can be replaced by an indy garage these days for between €1700 and €1900. Best of luck.


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    #7
    Decka
    Registered Users Posts: 23 ✭Decka


    Yeah shop around on price, that sounds like mad money for that, i think the timing chain is at the back of the engine and the engine has to come out but still 5000 is a crazy price


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    #8
    Dr Turk Turkelton
    Registered Users Posts: 2,914 ✭✭✭Dr Turk Turkelton


    Truckermal wrote: »
    FFS a car only 3 years old and you could say the engine is fcuked I would be speaking to a good solicitor at this stage. Funnily enough a Indy mechanic was telling me he had a client in lately with a 12 reg 520 and the chain was rattling mad in it...

    Would a 12 reg not be the newer model with a different engine?


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    #9
    keano25
    Registered Users Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭keano25


    So basically a full service history with BMW counts for noting if you buy private.

    I'd be making everyone aware of this via Facebook, media etc. and BMW are bound to lose a pile of business with servicing when an Indy will do a service for half of what BMW will.

    No point in bringing your BMW that was bought privately to a main dealer and paying through the nose for a service everytime and when something goes wrong they give you the finger.


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    #10
    TBi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭TBi


    I bought my mini private and got goodwill work done on it. Possibly because I had history with the garage from a previous BMW. Try a different BMW garage. Some are better than others.

    Also 5k is the cost of the full fix which includes a new crankshaft (it's the cog on this which causes the problem). Usually the 1.5k fixes just replace the chain but not the crankshaft so the problem will reappear.


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    #11
    robtri
    Registered Users Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭robtri


    Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »
    Would a 12 reg not be the newer model with a different engine?

    OP said 2011.. april reg
    which is more than likely the N47 engine, which has the timing chain issues


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    #12
    Dr Turk Turkelton
    Registered Users Posts: 2,914 ✭✭✭Dr Turk Turkelton


    robtri wrote: »
    OP said 2011.. april reg
    which is more than likely the N47 engine, which has the timing chain issues

    I quoted Truckermals post he said he had been talking to a mechanic who had seen it on a 12 reg 520d.


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    #13
    bazz26
    Registered Users Posts: 51,185 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    N47 engine has been around since about Sept 2007 and has only recently been replaced by the B47 engine.


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    #14
    Voodoomelon
    Registered Users Posts: 9,660 ✭✭✭Voodoomelon


    OP, I would hate to be in your position. And you have my utmost sympathy.

    But if you are a second owner and the car is out of warranty, by law, you aren't entitled to anything.

    A solicitors letter as others are suggesting is going to achieve nothing.

    Even if you get good will towards a €5000 bill, you'll still get it done cheaper from a good independent.

    Best of luck.


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    #15
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    dricco wrote: »
    Sorry to be digging up an old thread but

    I've a 2011 520d(Manufactured in April) 68,000 miles bought a month ago privately. The car has a full BMW service history. It was bought from Joe Duffy dealership in Dublin with a 2 year service pack which ran out in April this year.

    I noticed a timing chain noise a few weeks ago and brought it to motorpark (BMW service center) here in Galway. They say it needs a timing chain and kit and it would cost €5,000. BMW are refusing to give a goodwill payment towards the repair, still fighting with them but all they are saying is that it was bought privately and not through their dealerships.

    I quoted their press release and said it has nothing about being bought privately and my car should meet their requirements for goodwill (relatively low mileage and full BMW service history) but all i get is "it was bought privately". I really don't know what to do now, anybody got any advise??

    MotorPark quoted another guy out this way 6k for the same problem on an 08 320d. A local garage did an effective repair for half that. That said very very poor form on BMW's part.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #16
    MetzgerMeister
    Registered Users Posts: 19,854 ✭✭✭✭MetzgerMeister


    I have a 335i that I bought from an independent dealers in Dublin. I'm the 2nd owner of the car. As some people know, the wastegates in the turbos of the 335i go kaput and the solution is to replace the turbos. Even though it's a fault that's been there since the car was built (i.e. not fit for purpose) and the car had a full BMW service history, they gave me no hop at all.

    My only saving grace is that BMW remanufacture these turbos and sell them for less than half what a new one would cost and you send them back your busted ones. Still cost me 2 grand of my own money altogether to buy both turbos and for labour.

    You're not alone when it comes to this OP and as Voodoomelon said, you also have my utmost sympathy.


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    #17
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    MetzgerMeister wrote: »
    I have a 335i that I bought from an independent dealers in Dublin. I'm the 2nd owner of the car. As some people know, the wastegates in the turbos of the 335i go kaput and the solution is to replace the turbos. Even though it's a fault that's been there since the car was built (i.e. not fit for purpose) and the car had a full BMW service history, they gave me no hop at all.

    My only saving grace is that BMW remanufacture these turbos and sell them for less than half what a new one would cost and you send them back your busted ones. Still cost me 2 grand of my own money altogether to buy both turbos and for labour.

    You're not alone when it comes to this OP and as Voodoomelon said, you also have my utmost sympathy.

    Indeed, BMW - The Ultimate Fixing Machine.

    Their bikes are not dissimilar. ..

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #18
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 65,147 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    dricco wrote: »
    I've a 2011 520d(Manufactured in April) 68,000 miles bought a month ago privately. The car has a full BMW service history.
    dricco wrote: »
    BMW are refusing to give a goodwill payment towards the repair, still fighting with them but all they are saying is that it was bought privately and not through their dealerships.

    That doesn't seem right. First of all, did you check the date of manufacture through the VIN of your car? I was under the strong impression that any of them manufactured from 2011 did not develop the chain problem

    Secondly, BMW seem to pay all or nearly all of the costs out of goodwill for out of warranty cars with full BMWSH and under 100k miles. Your car should qualify. Forget about Joe Duffy or your Galway BMW dealer, contact BMW Ireland

    Out of interest, I take it your car is a manual and not an automatic?

    Keep us informed and best of luck!


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    #19
    bazz26
    Registered Users Posts: 51,185 ✭✭✭✭bazz26


    From what I have been hearing BMW tend to pay goodwill towards the parts, however dealer labour is normally not covered by them or at least all of it. It's a fairly labour intensive job and I've heard labour costs of +€2k by main dealers.


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    #20
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 65,147 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    We've all heard different things, but if I were the OP, I would contact BMW Ireland and I would expect to get my (low mileage, fully BMW serviced) car fixed for nothing, or very little. Certainly nowhere near €5k. Although obviously the car is nearly 4 years old and well out of warranty.


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    #21
    johnobertie2
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 28 ✭johnobertie2


    Voodoomelon wrote: »
    OP, I would hate to be in your position. And you have my utmost sympathy.

    But if you are a second owner and the car is out of warranty, by law, you aren't entitled to anything.

    A solicitors letter as others are suggesting is going to achieve nothing.

    Even if you get good will towards a €5000 bill, you'll still get it done cheaper from a good independent.

    Best of luck.

    Incorrect
    The car is not fit for purpose
    He has a case especially as car has been main dealer serviced


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    #22
    Voodoomelon
    Registered Users Posts: 9,660 ✭✭✭Voodoomelon


    The Sale Of Goods Act does not apply to second hand goods bought from a private individual. The car does not have to be "fit for purpose" as it is three and half years old and out of warranty.

    Dealer service history in some cases gets you good will, but it is just that, good will and not required to be offered under law.


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    #23
    jetfiremuck
    Registered Users Posts: 3,466 ✭✭✭jetfiremuck


    I am going to suggest this. See if you can contact the previous seller......see if you can arrange that he owns the car. Have him bring it in to another dealer..wortlh a chance...id play them at thier own game. Car private or dealer is only a dodge to pay for defective materials. Id be pissed


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    #24
    Special Circumstances
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,569 ✭✭✭Special Circumstances


    galwaytt wrote: »
    Indeed, BMW - The Ultimate Fixing Machine.

    Their bikes are not dissimilar. ..

    "Known issue you say? No no never heard of that happening. You may have driven by someone using the incorrect oil in their car at some stage. That'll be X grand please."


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    #25
    Truckermal
    Registered Users Posts: 6,048 ✭✭✭Truckermal


    Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »
    Would a 12 reg not be the newer model with a different engine?
    I thought so too..

    bazz26 wrote: »
    N47 engine has been around since about Sept 2007 and has only recently been replaced by the B47 engine.

    How recent is recent as I was under the impression the F10 didn't suffer from this.


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    #26
    Oafley Jones
    Registered Users Posts: 6,468 ✭✭✭Oafley Jones


    Truckermal wrote: »
    I thought so too..




    How recent is recent as I was under the impression the F10 didn't suffer from this.

    April 11 on was generally considered safe owing to a slight redesign, but there are reports surfacing that the problem is still there even in newer cars. Wouldn't touch a BMW with an N47 with a barge pole. New B47 engine didn't launch till this year.


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    #27
    Blazer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,427 ✭✭✭✭Blazer


    That's bloody awful luck Op..as one poster said contact BMW Ireland directly than via main deal.
    Tweeting to them over social media gets a rapid response whether good news or bad etc.
    Shocking that this engine still have the timing chain issue 3 years later and in a newer model.
    Glad I went to a M57 engine instead of going for the reg number.

    Also there's a chap called Vanas I think on bmwhaus.ie and bmw-drivers.net who fixes these..worth giving him a bell or dropping him a PM to see the repair costs.


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    #28
    dricco
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭dricco


    unkel wrote: »
    That doesn't seem right. First of all, did you check the date of manufacture through the VIN of your car? I was under the strong impression that any of them manufactured from 2011 did not develop the chain problem

    I know, i thought the model didn't need the timing chain issue, as it was 17.03.2011 production according to the VIN when i looked it up.

    What the BMW service press release said about that production model

    "No repairs are allowed in vehicles with production date after 03/2011 and vehicles in which all existing measures have already been made. The sound now is the moment, the normal state of this world! No risk of broken chain!"

    But i'm unsure as to what exactly "all existing measures have already been made" means

    The good news I've found out is that BMW say (via a BMW forum and not BMW directly as they tell you nothing) is that this model and newer ones don't need the crank replaced, just the chain and kit.


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    #29
    dricco
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭dricco


    Blazer wrote: »
    That's bloody awful luck Op..as one poster said contact BMW Ireland directly than via main deal.

    Tried that and managed to speak to the Customer Service Manager for Ireland but all she did for twenty minutes over and over again was that "it was bought privately". Like speaking to a politician, was very frustrating. All this and i'm trying to save for a wedding next May.


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    #30
    dricco
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭dricco


    Thanks to all the posters, great to get everyone opinion. It all helps.

    I think my next plan of action is to try and get the guy I bought it from to help (3 weeks ago).
    He bought it originally from Joe Duffy in Dublin and I hope he still is a valued customers.
    If he can put some pressure on Joe Duffy to fight my case with BMW Ireland, then I might get some goodwill.

    I feel the dealership here in Galway as I didn't buy it from them, don't really care.


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    #31
    MetzgerMeister
    Registered Users Posts: 19,854 ✭✭✭✭MetzgerMeister


    dricco wrote: »
    I know, i thought the model didn't need the timing chain issue, as it was 17.03.2011 production according to the VIN when i looked it up.

    What the BMW service press release said about that production model

    "No repairs are allowed in vehicles with production date after 03/2011 and vehicles in which all existing measures have already been made. The sound now is the moment, the normal state of this world! No risk of broken chain!"

    But i'm unsure as to what exactly "all existing measures have already been made" means

    The good news I've found out is that BMW say (via a BMW forum and not BMW directly as they tell you nothing) is that this model and newer ones don't need the crank replaced, just the chain and kit.

    That's AFTER 03/2011 (i.e. from April onward) whereas yours IS 03/2011


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