My maiden DART voyage

Hilly Bill · 23-09-2014 5:16pm

lxflyer wrote: »

Without getting into nitty gritty of individual details, I think it is fair comment to say that there could be a significant improvement in the quality of information passed on to operational staff and passengers in the event of an unplanned disruption.

Anyone trying to claim otherwise is kidding themselves.

The current platform displays are also outdated and are in need of renewal, as the information that they provide really isn't as complete as people might expect these days.

This obviously would need to be connected into the signalling system and how this is done is a whole different kettle of fish. The ongoing re-signalling projects may facilitate an improvement, I don't know.

I don't think it unreasonable to compare Irish Rail with UK TOC's - in structure they are quite similar, so coming along and saying "we don't compete with them" is a rather daft argument.

But again, like Dublin Bus, all these things require funding and that's another battle to be fought.

It is unreasonable, this is Ireland not the UK. Does Irish Rail compete with those in the UK? No it doesnt. Why not compare it to France, Belgium, Algeria while you are at it? or the Congo.

Hilly Bill · 23-09-2014 5:20pm

n97 mini wrote: »

It's hard to see from platform 5, 6 or 7!

You would have to pass it to get there wouldnt you and the displays on them platforms would show the disruptions. You do realise that the board is for that location only dont you and not for the whole station?

devnull · 23-09-2014 5:30pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Surely a departure for Bray,Greystones, Maynooth, Howth, Malahide and Drogheda etc is sufficient enough without having to list the next train to all the intermediate stops along the way as well.

The fact we cannot do that is a limitation of the current screens being utterly useless and being able to display very little information at once - the fact that a Siemens refurbished DART can display more characters at once on it's side display than the platform display that it stops at tells you all you need to know about the quality of screens on said platform.

How is it unfriendly for tourists? when they go to Howth they ask which train? If the go to Skerries, they ask which train, if they want to go to Kildare they get given directions to Hueston.

No I want to abolish the blue screens completely and replace them with something more modern such as can be found in the vast majority of UK stations in medium to Large Towns and cities.

The idea of any information screen is to inform, the problem is with the current screens to anyone with little knowledge of the system, they do not provide the answers to questions, any good information system should answer the publics questions, they should not create more questions that then need to be asked of staff, it should be designed to answer whatever questions someone new to the system would ask. If it requires someone to actually know the system well in the first place, it's not doing it's job.

The Blue screens need to be abolished with LED screens in their place like these:

Such screens allow an extra line which can be put to good use, for example, for Maynooth fast services, add an extra line saying "Non stop to Maynooth" , "Grand Canal Dock Station Closed" when closed for matches - where there is nothing to add, don't add it.

The platforms then get these style screens on them. With two screens per platform, one towards the front of the platform and another one half way down. This is especially relevant for improving information for platform 4 at Connolly, where the only display is right at the front of the train.

In areas such as Platform 6 and 7 at Connolly, you put a bank of three displays, in the middle of the roof covered area, left hand side one being Platform 7, middle one being list of departures, right hand side one being Platform 6. The middle one then converts to show service disruption when necessary or any other important messages. At the moment to see information for any other platforms when you alight on the DART on Platform 6 and 7, you need to walk all the way to Platform 5.

There isnt a lot more that can be done unless you want them to lead them by the hand to their destination.

In an event of a disruption, a display board get placed on the concourse in Connolly stating the nature of the disruption along with announcemets.

Yet such board did not appear on Friday.

I keep telling you, that not everyone uses the concourse at Connolly, there are huge amounts of people changing trains who will never go near the concourse and will be on the platforms at any one time, and disruption will happen when people are on the concourse.

The concouruse area actually is the bit that is not quite so bad as the rest of the station, it could be improved though by slightly decreasing the size of the screens to allow more in the same amount of space rather than just the next one DART in any direction, two commuter and two intercity. Something like this.

The last screen then shows any service or general information or upcoming disruption that can be tweaked to advertise special services and trains when not in use. The one before it then shows departures after the ones listed on the main boards or arrivals, whichever you choose. Straight away you make it quicker for someone to update screens without having to go and write some display board.

Of course not every station needs such information, for stations such as Pearse, Dun Lagohaire, and other stations with a large amount of non dart traffic calling at them, something like this in the concourse would suit

For Dart only stations perhaps the portrait style boards will not be needed, but if they are going to stick with the horiztonal style boards, then they could do with something that has at least 3-4 long lines (think current Dublin Bus RPTI screen style, just a little bigger text) rather than two short ones at present. Ideally a 4 line version of this.

devnull · 23-09-2014 5:43pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

It is unreasonable, this is Ireland not the UK. Does Irish Rail compete with those in the UK? No it doesnt. Why not compare it to France, Belgium, Algeria while you are at it? or the Congo.

Nobody is competing with anyone.

I think looking at the quality of information and displays that provide it in other countries and seeing how it compares with what we have is pretty normal think to do. If things are handled better in different countries and they use some different solutions then I think it's extremely relevant to compare it.

The reason I used the UK for an example, is because that it's a country which over the last few years has changed a lot of it's passenger information displays at many stations which for the most part has improved the delivery of such information.

n97 mini · 23-09-2014 5:56pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

You would have to pass it to get there wouldnt you and the displays on them platforms would show the disruptions. You do realise that the board is for that location only dont you and not for the whole station?

I came in on platform 4 and there was no mention on the PA of any delays. First I heard of it was a member of staff down in front of the ticket desks was shouting it out.

LXFlyer · 23-09-2014 6:31pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

It is unreasonable, this is Ireland not the UK. Does Irish Rail compete with those in the UK? No it doesnt. Why not compare it to France, Belgium, Algeria while you are at it? or the Congo.

I'm sorry but this post is just plain daft.

Are you seriously suggesting that it is not good practice to compare the information systems of our nearest neighbours from whom most of our rules and regulations, and information practices have developed?

I seriously have to question your bona fides if you think looking at best practice on a similar railway operation and implementing it here is not a good idea.

All I'm reading in these posts of yours is a long list of counter-arguments in almost tit-for-tat style that try to imply that everything is fine, when it clearly isn't.

I'm quite happy to explain why things are the way they are, but not even I would try to say that things cannot be improved significantly and that IE cannot learn from best practice elsewhere.

I think you need to realise that things CAN and should be improved!

LXFlyer · 23-09-2014 6:42pm

devnull wrote: »

Yet such board did not appear on Friday.

I keep telling you, that not everyone uses the concourse at Connolly, there are huge amounts of people changing trains who will never go near the concourse and will be on the platforms at any one time, and disruption will happen when people are on the concourse.

The concouruse area actually is the bit that is not quite so bad as the rest of the station, it could be improved though by slightly decreasing the size of the screens to allow more in the same amount of space rather than just the next one DART in any direction, two commuter and two intercity. Something like this.

In the interests of fairness I'd have to point out that there was an information board up in the main concourse last Friday.

That's not saying that things could not be improved upon, but as I pointed out before, updating the platform PIS will depend upon the ability of any PIS to interact with the signalling systems in place.

devnull · 23-09-2014 7:01pm

lxflyer wrote: »

In the interests of fairness I'd have to point out that there was an information board up in the main concourse last Friday.

That's not saying that things could not be improved upon, but as I pointed out before, updating the platform PIS will depend upon the ability of any PIS to interact with the signalling systems in place.

Didn't notice anything at 7.30pm

My complaint was not in relation to the train running information and destination displays on the PIS, since I agree that is going to be controlled by signalling.

My issue was the manually added scrolling message about disruption which was incorrect and out of date since it displayed that trains were suspended between Howth Junction and Howth, even when they had been suspended on both the Howth and Malahide branches, this was still the case almost an hour later after such disruption occured.

LXFlyer · 23-09-2014 7:08pm

devnull wrote: »

Didn't notice anything at 7.30pm

My complaint was not in relation to the train running information and destination displays on the PIS, since I agree that is going to be controlled by signalling.

My issue was the manually added scrolling message about disruption which was incorrect and out of date since it displayed that trains were suspended between Howth Junction and Howth, even when they had been suspended on both the Howth and Malahide branches, this was still the case almost an hour later after such disruption occured.

Well that shouldn't be happening. Full stop.

devnull · 23-09-2014 7:20pm

I actually would have got the bus from Amiens Street but since the Malahide branch was running according to the displays whilst waiting for the 7.38 from Connolly (which was about 5 mins or so late) I thought I'd get it.

We got to Kilbarack about 8pm and were told the line was closed through Howth Junction for a few minutes, about 8.30pm we were told it would be 5-10 minutes more. We eventually got moving at about 8.40pm. Even during the 40 minutes we were waiting at Kilbarack the displays continued to say "Due to a points failure, services are suspended between Howth Junction and Howth." which was simply not the extent of the issue.

Looking at real time whilst we were at Kilbarack for 40 minutes, a train ahead of us was stuck at Howth Junction, the following train to Howth was stuck at Raheny for 30 minutes, and another train at Harmonstown and probably more down the line. For all intents and purposes basically nothing was moving at least Northbound during that time since there was a backlog of trains each sitting in a platform at a station building up, because another train was blocking the next station.

It was far more disruption than Howth branch services operating to and from Howth Jct (the displays actually showed "Howth Jct" rather than Howth for Howth trains, but it was impossible for them to get there as the line was blocked by stranded trains which were in turn blocked by other trains) and Malahide running as normal as the displays indicated.

Rashers72 · 23-09-2014 8:29pm

Went to drop by refund application into Connolly station this morning for last Fridays points failure.
Man in his early 60's I'd say in front of me came down on the train from Belfast, and wanted to get to Beaumont Hospital.
Older guy on the desk told him nothing to do with trains, and told him to 'go outside and ask around'. Welcome to Dublin, Irish Rail style! Strangely there is another guy on the desk who is brilliant, but then you have this twat treating a customer like that. I genuinely feel sorry for the staff in IE who actually care about their customers, and want to do a good job. There are too many staff simply undoing their good work, every day. Must be incredibly disheartening.

murphaph · 24-09-2014 9:20am

Irish Rail doesn't see itself as a transport company but rather a jobs club. That's the nub of the issue. Most of the staff and management don't really care about getting people from A to B.

Padraig Mor · 24-09-2014 9:43am

Hilly Bill wrote: »

In an event of a disruption, a display board get placed on the concourse in Connolly stating the nature of the disruption along with announcemets.

OP here. Having a sign on the concourse (there was none on Saturday) isn't much good when I'm *somewhere else*, checking the Irish Rail website which indicates everything is running swimmingly. In my case, I was at Busaras (alright, the Brewdock pub next door!) and chose DART from Connolly over bus from O'Connell St. If the correct information had been available *where it was needed*, I would have made a different choice.

the displays on them platforms would show the disruptions.

The displays on the platform on Saturday did not show any disruption. Hell, they didn't even list the train at all.

How is it unfriendly for tourists?

I would regard the Irish Rail "frontline" staff member I saw laughing at a tourist as the doors closed in her face to be pretty damn unfriendly.

Rashers72 wrote:

Older guy on the desk told him nothing to do with trains, and told him to 'go outside and ask around'. Welcome to Dublin, Irish Rail style!

Whatever about the lack of info etc I came across on Saturday (hey, **** happens), what shocked me was that staff member laughing at the poor confused woman. Frankly, I was embarrassed that she would be treated in such a manner in a country that panders to American tourists. Grounds for instant dismissal in my opinion.

As I said, this was my first time using DART and I started this thread to see if my experience was unusual occurrence. Seems like it wasn't. Anyway, I've sent a complaint to IR, although I don't expect much of a response.

Hilly Bill · 24-09-2014 10:55am

n97 mini wrote: »

I came in on platform 4 and there was no mention on the PA of any delays. First I heard of it was a member of staff down in front of the ticket desks was shouting it out.

You came in on Plat 4, where did you go then? out the station or where you looking to transfer trains?

Hilly Bill · 24-09-2014 11:02am

lxflyer wrote: »

I'm sorry but this post is just plain daft.

Are you seriously suggesting that it is not good practice to compare the information systems of our nearest neighbours from whom most of our rules and regulations, and information practices have developed?

I seriously have to question your bona fides if you think looking at best practice on a similar railway operation and implementing it here is not a good idea.

All I'm reading in these posts of yours is a long list of counter-arguments in almost tit-for-tat style that try to imply that everything is fine, when it clearly isn't.

I'm quite happy to explain why things are the way they are, but not even I would try to say that things cannot be improved significantly and that IE cannot learn from best practice elsewhere.

I think you need to realise that things CAN and should be improved!

Baically you are saying that Irish Rail should meet the same standard as the Railway in the UK is that it?

Mikros · 24-09-2014 11:35am

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Baically you are saying that Irish Rail should meet the same standard as the Railway in the UK is that it?

Why shouldn't they?

Obviously there will be differences in funding, economy of scale, passenger numbers etc. but surely any company should be identifying best practice and looking to see what can implemented within their budget and control. "Good enough, most of the time" shows a real lack of vision.

Hilly Bill · 24-09-2014 11:56am

Mikros wrote: »

Why shouldn't they?

Obviously there will be differences in funding, economy of scale, passenger numbers etc. but surely any company should be identifying best practice and looking to see what can implemented within their budget and control. "Good enough, most of the time" shows a real lack of vision.

Nobody said good enough most of the time.

My point is, is the UK way the right way ? Is there a better way out there? There is always room for improvement but doing it the way of our neighbours just because they are larger doesnt make it the right way nor doing it the way some one on here wants either. Lets make sure it actually improves something first before changing it just because its done across the water.
Im all for change and improvement by the way

.

foggy_lad · 24-09-2014 12:13pm

I was on a few trains on that "black" friday and it was not just the Dart service that was in a heap. I boarded the 4pm Waterford to Dublin train in Carlow at 4.52, It was a few minutes late leaving Carlow but that is usually not an issue. this day it was an issue and because the train was delayed by a late timber train we got stuck in Athy waiting for the 4.40pm Dublin-Waterford train at 5.35pm, Then because of this delay there was a further delay(slow progress) on getting to Kildare. Instead of the advertised 58minutes this poxy train took 90 minutes to get to Heuston.

There were announcements from the driver but they were broken and garbled due to faulty equipment oh him moving from the microphone while speaking? making the announcements inaudible and completely useless.

Then I got to Connolly and got a train to Malahide, the first thing i noticed was the display in Connolly showed some trains from earlier in the afternoon and everything else as normal but I knew that was not the case.

There was only one person to ask at the ticket barrier and he had a tv behind him with all the real trains on it. asked when and where the next Malahide train was and he told me platform 6 in 5 minutes, got to the platform and the dart was pulling away! no information on the platforms but the displays for platform 7 indicated a train to Drogheda in 18 minutes so I got that. It was running about 10 miutes late in Malahide but no major delays.

Getting back to Dublin from Malahide was an absolute nightmare!the dart was supposed to leave at 7.45 but didnt leave till about 8.30 because of the signal fault at howth junction, then the poxy dart was delayed again at raheny station for another 15 minutes. announcements were inaudible or just garbled and gave no real information. the standard Dublin Bus accepting tickets but that is only of use if there are buses running!

If we were told in Malahide that it would take 45minutes to get going I would have got the bus that was leaving at around the same time but announcements were not made until that bus had left and the next one was in about 50minutes!

from Malahide they should have had buses leaving directly from outside the station at train times! as it was they failed miserably to communicate with passengers.

n97 mini · 24-09-2014 3:04pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

You came in on Plat 4, where did you go then? out the station or where you looking to transfer trains?

What difference does it make! There were no announcements on any PA system, and similarly the main departures board showed everything was A-OK.

schemingbohemia · 24-09-2014 5:36pm

foggy_lad wrote: »

I was on a few trains on that "black" friday and it was not just the Dart service that was in a heap. I boarded the 4pm Waterford to Dublin train in Carlow at 4.52, It was a few minutes late leaving Carlow but that is usually not an issue. this day it was an issue and because the train was delayed by a late timber train we got stuck in Athy waiting for the 4.40pm Dublin-Waterford train at 5.35pm, Then because of this delay there was a further delay(slow progress) on getting to Kildare. Instead of the advertised 58minutes this poxy train took 90 minutes to get to Heuston.

There were announcements from the driver but they were broken and garbled due to faulty equipment oh him moving from the microphone while speaking? making the announcements inaudible and completely useless.

Then I got to Connolly and got a train to Malahide, the first thing i noticed was the display in Connolly showed some trains from earlier in the afternoon and everything else as normal but I knew that was not the case.

There was only one person to ask at the ticket barrier and he had a tv behind him with all the real trains on it. asked when and where the next Malahide train was and he told me platform 6 in 5 minutes, got to the platform and the dart was pulling away! no information on the platforms but the displays for platform 7 indicated a train to Drogheda in 18 minutes so I got that. It was running about 10 miutes late in Malahide but no major delays.

Getting back to Dublin from Malahide was an absolute nightmare!the dart was supposed to leave at 7.45 but didnt leave till about 8.30 because of the signal fault at howth junction, then the poxy dart was delayed again at raheny station for another 15 minutes. announcements were inaudible or just garbled and gave no real information. the standard Dublin Bus accepting tickets but that is only of use if there are buses running!

If we were told in Malahide that it would take 45minutes to get going I would have got the bus that was leaving at around the same time but announcements were not made until that bus had left and the next one was in about 50minutes!

from Malahide they should have had buses leaving directly from outside the station at train times! as it was they failed miserably to communicate with passengers.

Did you really go all the way from Carlow to Malahide to basically turn straight around and come straight back?

L1011 · 24-09-2014 5:42pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Baically you are saying that Irish Rail should meet the same standard as the Railway in the UK is that it?

And you're not? Why should they be any different/worse?

suicide_circus · 24-09-2014 5:42pm

Sitting here on the platform at Pearse waiting for a southbound dart having just mussed the last one. Why in the name of all that is holy is there a 15 minute gap between darts during rush hour? Can someone please explain this to me? There are about 150 people currently on the platform with me. By the time the next (presumably full) dart arrives, this figure will have doubled. Why such a long gap between services?

foggy_lad · 24-09-2014 5:58pm

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Did you really go all the way from Carlow to Malahide to basically turn straight around and come straight back?

No, I only went back to Dublin. Why the interest in my travel arrangements? Should I be watching out for you in the foliage outside my window?

Hilly Bill · 24-09-2014 8:19pm

n97 mini wrote: »

What difference does it make! There were no announcements on any PA system, and similarly the main departures board showed everything was A-OK.

The difference is that you were leaving the station and wouldnt have heard any announcements unless you were hanging around. Announcements would have been made in the station plus announcements would be on the loop platforms. Bear in mind though that the person making the announcements in the station could be tied up answering passengers in person or on phone or assisting wheelchair passengers or visual impaired.

Hilly Bill · 24-09-2014 8:25pm

MYOB wrote: »

And you're not? Why should they be any different/worse?

IR should set its own high standards and not fall in line with a railway company across the water . Just because its in the UK it doesnt mean its run better.

devnull · 24-09-2014 8:29pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

The difference is that you were leaving the station and wouldnt have heard any announcements unless you were hanging around. Announcements would have been made in the station plus announcements would be on the loop platforms.

Bear in mind though that the person making the announcements in the station could be tied up answering passengers in person or on phone or assisting wheelchair passengers or visual impaired.

There were not any announcements or any proper information on that night - several people who were there have said the same thing. The scrolling messages were also not updated.

All I keep seeing here are excuses for poor customer service. If this is the kind of attitude that staff in Irish Rail have no wonder the levels of said service are dire, since they always make some excuse rather than tackle the problem.

It just gives an impression that nobody could care less since sorting something out would actually require some effort.

markpb · 24-09-2014 8:46pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

Just because its in the UK it doesnt mean its run better.

You're reading it backwards. People are saying we should copy the UK because they do it better, not that they're better because they're the UK.

billyhead · 24-09-2014 8:49pm

Rashers72 wrote: »

Went to drop by refund application into Connolly station this morning for last Fridays points failure.
Man in his early 60's I'd say in front of me came down on the train from Belfast, and wanted to get to Beaumont Hospital.
Older guy on the desk told him nothing to do with trains, and told him to 'go outside and ask around'. Welcome to Dublin, Irish Rail style! Strangely there is another guy on the desk who is brilliant, but then you have this twat treating a customer like that. I genuinely feel sorry for the staff in IE who actually care about their customers, and want to do a good job. There are too many staff simply undoing their good work, every day. Must be incredibly disheartening.

Are we entitled to a refund for last Fridays shambles. I was on the 4.20pm from Connolly North Bound to Drogheda and was late home by 1.5 hours but have an annual pass. How do you go about claiming a refund if its possible just for the inconvenience and I also missed an appointment I had.

n97 mini · 24-09-2014 8:53pm

Hilly Bill wrote: »

The difference is that you were leaving the station and wouldnt have heard any announcements unless you were hanging around. Announcements would have been made in the station plus announcements would be on the loop platforms. Bear in mind though that the person making the announcements in the station could be tied up answering passengers in person or on phone or assisting wheelchair passengers or visual impaired.

I wasn't leaving, I had to meet someone in the station and I was there from 17.30 to 19.00! Apart from that sign (which was too small, was only half filled in and was too close to the doors leading to the Luas for a lot of people to see) and yer man impersonating the town crier down by the ticket machines there was no other indication that the network was at a standstill north of Harmonstown.

Co-incidentally we were delayed arriving 12 minutes late into Connolly, usual craic with Maynooth trains seemingly receiving lowest traffic priority, but - rather surprisingly - the driver made an announcement after only 8 minutes into the delay. Semi-impressed I was, though my memory is still fresh of London where a delay of longer than 30 seconds and the driver is on the PA, so even at 8 minutes IE have a lot of room for improvement.

Hilly Bill · 24-09-2014 8:56pm

markpb wrote: »

You're reading it backwards. People are saying we should copy the UK because they do it better, not that they're better because they're the UK.

Nope, im saying there is no proof that they are doing it any better.

My maiden DART voyage

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