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Asylum Seeker protest on Kinsale Road. Mod warning in OP.

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24567…17

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    #32
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Daisy Dasi wrote: »
    it's very relevant as Ireland is continually getting slated for its low success rates of asylum seekers. If they have failed in their first port of call, why should they succeed here?

    I think the point* was that it's entirely possible to use an Irish airport as the first port of EU entry, if a connecting flight was caught in another safe country, but the asylum applicant didn't leave the international transit area. Clearly this is not going to be the case for many applicants, but nevertheless it is a possibility, and needs to be taken into account in any assessment.

    * The irrelevance of there being no direct flights from West Africa / Middle East etc.


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    #33
    Daisy Dasi
    Registered Users Posts: 47 ✭Daisy Dasi


    alastair wrote: »
    I think the point* was that it's entirely possible to use an Irish airport as the first port of EU entry, if a connecting flight was caught in another safe country, but the asylum applicant didn't leave the international transit area. Clearly this is not going to be the case for many applicants, but nevertheless it is a possibility, and needs to be taken into account in any assessment.

    * The irrelevance of there being no direct flights from West Africa / Middle East etc.


    Then the first European country is where asylum should be seeked.....


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    #34
    Lucy and Harry
    Registered Users Posts: 763 ✭✭✭Lucy and Harry


    I think also many asylum seekers I have known have actually been the wealthy ones as the poor ones cant afford the air fare or charges smuggling gangs charge.
    the people who are in the system 9 years are here pre-recession days...
    Could the drain on them on our taxes be one of many factors in the recession happening.We have a tax that struggles to pay for hospitals and schools and roads so if a load of people show up and have nothing they put pressure on the system.?With so many people joining school that cant speak English are they not slowing down things for our own children in classes.Teachers have to go slow for the kids who cant use English very well.I think people came here also as we had very high dole and we were a easy touch.We have migrant people who show up for free hospital care.That cant be easy on a already crap health care system.


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    #35
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Daisy Dasi wrote: »
    Then the first European country is where asylum should be seeked.....

    Sure - and in that case (if the asylum applicant had travelled through a European international transit area on their way to Ireland), it would be Ireland as the first port of entry.


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    #36
    Daisy Dasi
    Registered Users Posts: 47 ✭Daisy Dasi


    alastair wrote: »
    I think the point* was that it's entirely possible to use an Irish airport as the first port of EU entry, if a connecting flight was caught in another safe country, but the asylum applicant didn't leave the international transit area. Clearly this is not going to be the case for many applicants, but nevertheless it is a possibility, and needs to be taken into account in any assessment.

    * The irrelevance of there being no direct flights from West Africa / Middle East etc.

    Also if you say for example you were fleeing genocide or the treat of being killed in your country wouldn't you just be happy to get to safety? Inter connecting flights to Ireland make it sound as if they are coming to Ireland for a very specific reason same way we pick and choose our own holiday destinations with inter connecting flights through Heathrow


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    #37
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Daisy Dasi wrote: »
    Also if you say for example you were fleeing genocide or the treat of being killed in your country wouldn't you just be happy to get to safety? Inter connecting flights to Ireland make it sound as if they are coming to Ireland for a very specific reason same way we pick and choose our own holiday destinations with inter connecting flights through Heathrow

    It might. But that's part of the asylum assessment process. The simple absence of direct flights from Africa etc to Dublin is still irrelevant to whether an applicant is successful. Clearly all those applicants deemed genuine didn't charter direct flights.


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    #38
    Daisy Dasi
    Registered Users Posts: 47 ✭Daisy Dasi


    alastair wrote: »
    I think the point* was that it's entirely possible to use an Irish airport as the first port of EU entry, if a connecting flight was caught in another safe country, but the asylum applicant didn't leave the international transit area. Clearly this is not going to be the case for many applicants, but nevertheless it is a possibility, and needs to be taken into account in any assessment.

    * The irrelevance of there being no direct flights from West Africa / Middle East etc.

    Also if you say for example you were fleeing genocide or the treat of being killed in your country wouldn't you just be happy to get to safety? Inter connecting flights to Ireland make it sound as if they are coming to Ireland for a very specific reason same way we pick and choose our own holiday destinations with inter connecting flights through Heathrow


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    #39
    Daisy Dasi
    Registered Users Posts: 47 ✭Daisy Dasi


    alastair wrote: »
    It might. But that's part of the asylum assessment process. The simple absence of direct flights from Africa etc to Dublin is still irrelevant to whether an applicant is successful. Clearly all those applicants deemed genuine didn't charter direct flights.

    But the Dublin Convention states to claim asylum in the first safe country.... flights to Ireland sounds too calculated for me.....


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    #40
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Daisy Dasi wrote: »
    What exactly is the reason Ireland is slow to deport failed asylum seekers?
    I'm thinking a "lack" of a passport hinders the process of sending them back to where they came from. Also, lack of said passport can make it harder to prove that they are not from a war-torn country that Ireland won't send them back to.
    Daisy Dasi wrote: »
    Support groups such as Residents Against Racism and The Anti Deportation League have unrealistic goals in trying to get Ireland to abolish deportations.
    Those who are not in power never have to balance the books, and thus always ask for the moon and the stars but without a credible way to pay.
    Daisy Dasi wrote: »
    The reason being: Ireland is not the first port of call for the majority of asylum seekers if not all as there are no direct flights from here to Africa or the war torn countries of the Middle East.
    Once they don't leave the airport along the way, they don't "enter" anther country along the way, and thus we can be the 1st country they enter.
    Daisy Dasi wrote: »
    Inter connecting flights to Ireland make it sound as if they are coming to Ireland for a very specific reason same way we pick and choose our own holiday destinations with inter connecting flights through Heathrow
    I wonder what happens when one asks the airport official about asylum in their country?
    Daisy Dasi wrote: »
    Also if you say for example you were fleeing genocide or the treat of being killed in your country wouldn't you just be happy to get to safety?
    If you were fleeing a "political party", the first two countries you arrive in may already be full of people from the same "political party", and thus you look for a country where there isn't as many from said "political party".


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    #41
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Daisy Dasi wrote: »
    But the Dublin Convention states to claim asylum in the first safe country.... flights to Ireland sounds too calculated for me.....

    Again - it's entirely possible - as already explained, to claim asylum in Dublin airport, under the terms of the Dublin II mechanism. Whether you think it sounds calculated is a different matter - the case of the asylum claim are judged on their own merits - and no doubt any such suspicion of 'calculation' will come into play. Given the percentage of refused applications, clearly that judgement is found fairly regularly.


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    #42
    Lucy and Harry
    Registered Users Posts: 763 ✭✭✭Lucy and Harry


    Look at the ones in Calais France waiting and rioting to get on boats to the UK. Why not stay in France?


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    #43
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Lucy and Harry wrote: »
    Look at the ones in Calais France waiting and rioting to get on boats to the UK. Why not stay in France?

    Many more do. in 2012, France had 18.3% of asylum applications in the EU, while the UK had 8.4%, in 2013 France had 66,265 asylum applications, while the UK had 29,875. Calais just stands out because it's one of the few secure borders within the EU.


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    #44
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Daisy Dasi wrote: »
    it's very relevant as Ireland is continually getting slated for its low success rates of asylum seekers. If they have failed in their first port of call, why should they succeed here?

    Have you evidence that the majority are refused because they have previously applied elsewhere? There is no obligation on asylum seekers to seek the "first safe country".
    Daisy dasi wrote:
    But the Dublin Convention states to claim asylum in the first safe country.

    No, it does not.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=59465073&postcount=4


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    #45
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Lucy and Harry wrote: »
    I think also many asylum seekers I have known have actually been the wealthy ones as the poor ones cant afford the air fare or charges smuggling gangs charge.

    Could the drain on them on our taxes be one of many factors in the recession happening.We have a tax that struggles to pay for hospitals and schools and roads so if a load of people show up and have nothing they put pressure on the system.?With so many people joining school that cant speak English are they not slowing down things for our own children in classes.Teachers have to go slow for the kids who cant use English very well.I think people came here also as we had very high dole and we were a easy touch.We have migrant people who show up for free hospital care.That cant be easy on a already crap health care system.


    The amount of asylum seekers here is quite small. The causes of the recession are known and have nothing to do with them. They are not entitled to the dole unless their claim is successful.


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    #46
    Lucy and Harry
    Registered Users Posts: 763 ✭✭✭Lucy and Harry


    Maybe I am mixing up migrant workers and asylum seekers.The country seems to be over come by people from exotic lands lately.


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    #47
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Lucy and Harry wrote: »
    Maybe I am mixing up migrant workers and asylum seekers.The country seems to be over come by people from exotic lands lately.


    I'd imagine you are. No report on the recession has cited migrant workers either, I might add.


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    #48
    tolerant from cork
    Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭tolerant from cork


    So, what do you all think about protest in Kinsale Road Accommodation Centre?


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    #49
    Pixie Elf
    Registered Users Posts: 31 ✭Pixie Elf


    the complete lack of empathy for humanity in this thread is overwhelming..... there is so much nonsense in this thread purpoting as 'facts' that i cant begin to cover them all.. here i go to try and address somethings..............


    It is not the fault of applicants that the asylum process takes so long, it is because Ireland once again has proven itself to be inefficient....

    it is completely incorrect to say that all applicants are interviewed and decided upon within 6-12 months.... the process goes as follows -

    arrival

    asylum claim

    interviewed and considered for refugee status - can take number of years

    likely refused (ireland has extremely low rate of acceptance for refugee status)

    choice - either appeal decision and go to high court or apply for other forms of protection (detailed below)

    delays in high court due to a total lack of efficiency and it would appear no desire to appoint emergency judges to move through the backlog

    subsidiary protection - limited rights if granted

    humanitarian leave to remain - minimal rights if granted


    this is why a single application procedure is being mooted


    in order to 'qualify' for refugee status you have to meet extremely narrow requirements that were perhaps applicable 50 years ago but not today.....

    the burden of proof rests with the applicant and in ireland you are considered 'guilty' until proven 'innocent'


    one poster stated that we get sweet ... all from 'their' countries....showing a complete lack of understanding of the global system....................................

    it would be utterly impossible for us in the developed world to have the lives we have without the resources of the developing world

    for example; food, oil, diamonds, gold, laptops/mobile phones etc....

    and before someone posts that we pay for everything we get - educate yourself.... the system is entirely designed to squeeze countries into only giving us raw materials therefore not allowing development and ensuring our supplies.............

    not allowing development in countries will result in outward migration whether it is due to persecution or economic reasons...thats just the reality -

    so in effect we (you and me) create and sustain the situation we find ourselves in....


    HOWEVER

    all of the above said...... as i understand it this discussion is about the protests which is not really about the macro issues.....

    it is about people living in institutional settings for up to 10+ years and the impact this has on them and society as a whole

    not allowed to work

    not allowed to cook for their families

    not allowed to educate themselves above leaving cert



    I do not understand what the issue is with allowing people to work while their cases are being processed.............. surely any contribution to ireland at this time is greatly appreciated....or isnt it?

    and the posts about it being recession dont have a leg to stand on

    the system was the same all throughout the celtic tiger years

    (19.10 per adult, 9.60 per child)

    (single adults up to 6 sharing a room)

    (entire families in 1 room)

    (single mums sharing a room)


    a side issue is also the fact that the large majority of accomodation is provided by private companies that are in the game for the profit..... and as we know when profit is the end goal corners are cut all the time.............

    People are tired of living in this situation and are asking to be treated fairly......



    in terms of the macro things such as stopping deportations - - - should we no longer call for world peace because it is unlikely to happen?

    In terms of those that feel the country is overrun..... do you really want to live in such an insular world? do you feel that ireland is so perfect that we cant improve ourselves through experiencing elements of other cultures? .....and refer to my previous point that if you genuinely feel like that then lets also no longer engage with the global market..... that means nothing coming in or going out.... is that your vision for ireland?


    I cant think of the other things i wanted to say other than is this the type of discussion we all hoped for when we were considered to be...

    the country of a million thousand welcomes...

    cead mile failte?


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    #50
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    They get a minimum 2 appeals for every part of the process .
    Then come the kids which allows for more legal back and forward.
    then the kids start schools don't deport until they finish primary school .
    Then comes don't deport them the kids are in secondary school.
    Don't deport till after the junior cert
    Don't deport till after the leaving .
    oh look were pregnant again don't deport us till after this Child goes through all the above processes again
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #51
    tolerant from cork
    Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭tolerant from cork


    (single adults up to 6 sharing a room)

    (entire families in 1 room)

    (single mums sharing a room)

    None of the above applies in Kinsale Road Centre where the protest is.

    Also, are you willing to give the protesters your own houses? They all need one each, or per family.


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    #52
    Pixie Elf
    Registered Users Posts: 31 ✭Pixie Elf


    @tolerant from cork

    You are right - single people in kinsale road are three to a room in the majority of cases with a small amount of single rooms, however, in another hostel in Cork it is indeed 6 to a room...in bunkbuds at that

    I personally know families that have shared rooms......

    It is absolutely correct that single mums share rooms in kinsale road

    As i understand it.... they are asking for the right to work not 'our houses'

    @Gatling

    That is totally incorrect - i know a number of children that have been deported.......


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    #53
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Pixie Elf wrote: »
    @tolerant from cork

    You are right - single people in kinsale road are three to a room in the majority of cases with a small amount of single rooms, however, in another hostel in Cork it is indeed 6 to a room...in bunkbuds at that

    I personally know families that have shared rooms......

    It is absolutely correct that single mums share rooms in kinsale road

    As i understand it.... they are asking for the right to work not 'our houses'

    @Gatling

    That is totally incorrect - i know a number of children that have been deported.......

    I never said they don't deport family's with kids they use the excuse of having kids to drag there aslyum claims out with stupiditly long winded legal processes and multiple appeals for ever part of the process .
    1 claim one 1 appeal in under 12 months and then followed by either granting aslyum or deportation
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #54
    TINA1984
    Closed Accounts Posts: 372 ✭✭TINA1984


    tolerant from cork wrote: »
    I have the facts, don't worry.

    4 pages in we're waiting to see these facts. Out with it!


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    #55
    tolerant from cork
    Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭tolerant from cork


    Single mothers don't share the rooms for at least a year now.

    Their most recent demands (from Saturday morning) are: we won't negotiate anymore, we want direct provision centres to be closed, we want deportations to be stopped, we want houses for all asylum seekers.

    The 80 protesters didn't allow the delivery truck on site, leaving 180 residents that are not protesting without food for following days.


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    #56
    tolerant from cork
    Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭tolerant from cork


    TINA1984 wrote: »
    4 pages in we're waiting to see these facts. Out with it!

    What do you want to know?


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    #57
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Lucy and Harry wrote: »
    Maybe I am mixing up migrant workers and asylum seekers.The country seems to be over come by people from exotic lands lately.

    That's just for the match. They'll be back in Kerry and Donegal soon enough.


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    #58
    TINA1984
    Closed Accounts Posts: 372 ✭✭TINA1984


    tolerant from cork wrote: »
    What do you want to know?

    You've claimed to be in the know about these things, feel free to flesh out the claims you've made below. Remember! random links to news stories involving asylum seekers won't cut it. Tell us what you got....
    tolerant from cork wrote: »
    Finally someone talking about it. Could write a book about asylum seekers, their frauds, scams etc. while honest taxpayers are left with no interest or help when they really need it.


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    #59
    tolerant from cork
    Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭tolerant from cork


    When I'm done writing that book I'll let you know. For now ... ask a question ... as I'm not going to write that book here.


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    #60
    TINA1984
    Closed Accounts Posts: 372 ✭✭TINA1984


    I've already asked you a question
    TINA1984 wrote: »

    You've claimed to be in the know about these things, feel free to flesh out the claims you've made below. Remember! random links to news stories involving asylum seekers won't cut it. Tell us what you got....


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    #61
    tolerant from cork
    Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭tolerant from cork


    That's not a question. Try harder.
    I already gave some facts in this tread. Read them ... and if you wish to know some more, ask?


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