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Poet, Activist, Parkinson's sufferer and Granny (80), likes her porridge.

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245

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    #32
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Maybe the above poster can answer my question, Did the Rendition flights either never happen or stopped circa 2002 ? Why do we need to be reminded about something that either never happened or has stopped years ago ?


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    #33
    Autonomous Cowherd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I've done plenty good with my life, but I don't feel the need to inflict my good causes on others!
    This person actively seeks controversy and gets kicks out of wasting police time and taxpayers money.
    I doubt anyone will come for me, as I live within the law in a civilised society. Anyway, orange jumpsuits wouldn't be my thing. Neither the garment nor the colour!

    You may live within the law in a civilised country for now, but that quote i referenced is from Niemoller..who opposed the Nazi regime. Things do not always fall for us the way we might like them to, your child might live outside the law and be victimised, if they were homosexual not a couple of decades ago they could have been prosecuted, law is mutable and prone to error. Savita Hallapanavar fell outside the protection of this ''civilised law''. Don't get too comfy is all im saying. And Im sure orange would look delightful on you :D


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    #34
    Pumpkinseeds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,635 ✭✭✭Pumpkinseeds


    Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »
    You may live within the law in a civilised country for now, but that quote i referenced is from Niemoller..who opposed the Nazi regime. Things do not always fall for us the way we might like them to, your child might live outside the law and be victimised, if they were homosexual not a couple of decades ago they could have been prosecuted, law is mutable and prone to error. Savita Hallapanavar fell outside the protection of this ''civilised law''. Don't get too comfy is all im saying. And Im sure orange would look delightful on you :D


    Thank you soo much I really needed a good laugh today and your post provided it:)


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    #35
    Autonomous Cowherd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Maybe the above poster can answer my question, Did the Rendition flights either never happen or stopped circa 2002 ? Why do we need to be reminded about something that either never happened or has stopped years ago ?

    Extraordinary rendition is not something governments advertise In their manifesto. But if you believe that the US stopped picking up suspected ''terrorists'' 12 years ago and have never laid a finger on anyone since under any veil of illegality, then fine, that's your choice. Meanwhile military planes refuel at Shannon. Why should we allow that when we claim neutrality?


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    #36
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »
    Thank you for your reasonable response.

    I would counter by saying why should she sign a bond to stay away from the site of her protest at Shannon, since this would totally undermine the whole thrust of her protest. The law and courts are not always reasonable, and can be used to stymie protest. Plus once-off protest has little effect...most campaigns have to be sustained and prolonged in order to reach the mass of people who to be honest hardly give a moments thought past what goes into their belly, where they sleep, who they get jiggy with and whats on the telly.

    I think she is entitled to protest, entitled to bring the grave state of extraordinary rendition to our consciousness again and again, and this lark about tax payers money....people should wise up about what their tax payers money is spent on, bun fights in the dail, expenses for well clad ''politicians'', and propping up the EU banks at the expense of our being financially enslaved for generations to come. Why do people worry about their tax euros going to the upkeep of Ms D'Arcy and not to the upkeep of the bondholders and bankers who live lives of often obscene wealth...
    anyways..sigh..

    She is entitled to protest, but she's not entitled to break the law. And yes the courts have and are used to prevent or moderate protest........but they've also been used to facilitate it - and in our system she gets to make her case, and appeal it beyond our own legal system to supra-national bodies which we've agreed to be bound by.

    I believe she is citing the defence of 'necessity' - even a cursory reading of the precedent around that principle would show she's not on a winner.

    Also, before you go down the route of raising the issue of people being aware "what their tax payers money is spent on" I'd advise confirming that she has never drawn the cnuas - €17,000+ tax free a year for what??? It's quite possible that she's had a few crumbs from that particular trough.

    As I said, if she wants to make a protest, in addition to everything she's done why not resign from Aosdana and have nothing to do with the government?


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    #37
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »
    Extraordinary rendition is not something governments advertise In their manifesto. But if you believe that the US stopped picking up suspected ''terrorists'' 12 years ago and have never laid a finger on anyone since under any veil of illegality, then fine, that's your choice. Meanwhile military planes refuel at Shannon. Why should we allow that when we claim neutrality?

    We don't claim neutrality.

    We're non-aligned.

    .......oh, and when do the protests begin outside Intel - do you reckon every chip they produce goes to benign civilian uses.

    ......do you not feel there is even a sniff of irony that you are facilitated in making your points on the internet - something that had its genesis in a project devised, developed and implemented by the US military?


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    #38
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »
    Extraordinary rendition is not something governments advertise In their manifesto. But if you believe that the US stopped picking up suspected ''terrorists'' 12 years ago and have never laid a finger on anyone since under any veil of illegality, then fine, that's your choice. Meanwhile military planes refuel at Shannon. Why should we allow that when we claim neutrality?

    Have we any proof that a flight landed here with rendition people aboard? And I thought the people landing in American planes here were none combatants as it's the transport flights were talking about, that or people flying back from a tour. Have we any proof armed American troops pass through Shannon ?


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    #39
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users Posts: 43,028 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »
    Extraordinary rendition is not something governments advertise In their manifesto. But if you believe that the US stopped picking up suspected ''terrorists'' 12 years ago and have never laid a finger on anyone since under any veil of illegality, then fine, that's your choice. Meanwhile military planes refuel at Shannon. Why should we allow that when we claim neutrality?

    Why do you defend people who want to bomb our planes buses and trains to murder us in cold blood and see an end to our western civilisation?


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    #40
    Autonomous Cowherd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    Jawgap wrote: »
    We don't claim neutrality.

    We're non-aligned.

    .......oh, and when do the protests begin outside Intel - do you reckon every chip they produce goes to benign civilian uses.

    ......do you not feel there is even a sniff of irony that you are facilitated in making your points on the internet - something that had its genesis in a project devised, developed and implemented by the US military?

    No, not really, I don't feel the irony. After all lots of things had strange genesis.
    And yes, i think there should be an awareness that many products made in seemingly benign industries here in Ireland are used ultimately in the manufacture of armaments. Last time i looked which was a good 10 years ago, there were over 200 permits for products destined for military use. one of the greatest ironies i ever saw was many years ago when John Hume and David Trimble (winners of many peace prizes and the Nobel in 1998) were pictured opening a start up factory in Derry financed by peace funds where components were being made for guided missiles.
    Life is ironic yes.


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    #41
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »
    And Im sure orange would look delightful on you :D

    Aw, shucks. Flattery will get you nowhere! Just off to bake buns for a very worthy cause - A hungry Hubby and Kids.


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    #42
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,126 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »
    I would counter by saying why should she sign a bond to stay away from the site of her protest at Shannon, since this would totally undermine the whole thrust of her protest.

    Because she has endangered public safety but most of all her own safety.

    If you've never seen what human body meets turbofan engine looks like, I can PM you some pics if you'd like.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #43
    Autonomous Cowherd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    ninja900 wrote: »
    Because she has endangered public safety but most of all her own safety.

    If you've never seen what human body meets turbofan engine looks like, I can PM you some pics if you'd like.

    Nah. First time I've been offered a PM on here though. But still ...nah :D


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    #44
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    ninja900 wrote: »
    Because she has endangered public safety but most of all her own safety.

    If you've never seen what human body meets turbofan engine looks like, I can PM you some pics if you'd like.

    You would be better off sending pictures of what a massive plane crash looks like on landing or after take off due to foreign debris on the runway.


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    #45
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 15,814 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I hate how all these threads about her mention that she's a grandmother and Parkinson's sufferer. Does either give her the right to break the law? She willingly broke the law and should be punished. She is in prison now because she refused to sign a bond and as such she put herself there. She is not a victim as her supporters would like you to believe. She believes herself outside the law and seems to think that laws are there so as to be broken to prove a point. She willingly entered a restricted area and should pay the price.

    Like many profession protesters she's quite happy to accept handouts from the government but which to flaunt the law when it suits het


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    #46
    Reformed Character
    Closed Accounts Posts: 710 ✭✭✭Reformed Character


    She is a professional activist who chooses to look for ways to get jailed.
    I just hope that any state allowances she was claiming (Household budget, medical card etc) are withdrawn now that she is in prison, as is the norm for all convicted criminals.


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    #47
    Autonomous Cowherd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    I think people on here might not quite understand the meaning of the word ''Professional''...it is getting thrown around a lot and in the wrong context. professional means engaged in a specified activity as one's main PAID occupation. Margretta D'Arcy does not get paid to protest. i think you are looking for a different word, like ''regular'' or ''committed'' or i don't know, choose a word yerselves that is more accurate.

    As for those who would have an old lady live in penury for daring to express her opinion, I hope the sun always shines for ye.


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    #48
    Reformed Character
    Closed Accounts Posts: 710 ✭✭✭Reformed Character


    Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »
    I think people on here might not quite understand the meaning of the word ''Professional''...it is getting thrown around a lot and in the wrong context. professional means engaged in a specified activity as one's main PAID occupation. Margretta D'Arcy does not get paid to protest. i think you are looking for a different word, like ''regular'' or ''committed'' or i don't know, choose a word yerselves that is more accurate.

    As for those who would have an old lady live in penury for daring to express her opinion, I hope the sun always shines for ye.

    I take your point, I should have referred to her as a "career criminal" as opposed to " a professional activist".


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    #49
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »
    As for those who would have an old lady live in penury for daring to express her opinion, I hope the sun always shines for ye.

    Theres a difference between expressing ones opinions and breaking the law.


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    #50
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »
    I think people on here might not quite understand the meaning of the word ''Professional''...it is getting thrown around a lot and in the wrong context. professional means engaged in a specified activity as one's main PAID occupation. Margretta D'Arcy does not get paid to protest. i think you are looking for a different word, like ''regular'' or ''committed'' or i don't know, choose a word yerselves that is more accurate.

    As for those who would have an old lady live in penury for daring to express her opinion, I hope the sun always shines for ye.

    She's paid out of the public purse for her artistic endeavours - a condition of the tax free payment she receives is that she works full time at being an artist. She has, of her own volition, placed herself in a position where she cannot work full time.

    Surely, the arts funding she receives would be better spent by diverting it, perhaps, to another artist who is willing to honour the terms of the payment?

    Wouldn't it be great if the government just paid us and then left us to do what we wanted?


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    #51
    Autonomous Cowherd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Theres a difference between expressing ones opinions and breaking the law.

    Okay. There is.
    But i feel there is too much clout here been given to the ''law''.
    The law as I have said before is a mutable thing. Up to a certain point in history women were not permitted to vote, and women protested (in a prolonged and annoying manner) and this law was repealed. Up to a certain point in history homosexual relations were illegal, and people protested (again in an annoying and uncomfortable manner) and the unjust law was repealed. Up to a certain point in history black people were forbidden to sit near the front of buses in America and Rosa Parkes protested in a way that made the white people on the bus feel repelled....ie by taking a seat amongst them...illegally.

    The point is the law is often an ass, it often takes repeated protest to bring it to account, and undoubtedly future generations will look back on some of our present day ''laws'' (including legally maintained places like Guantanamo Bay and rendition and invasion of privacy by governments and so on and so forth) and wonder why we were so stupid as civilised populations to live with such barbarity.


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    #52
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »
    Okay. There is.
    But i feel there is too much clout here been given to the ''law''.
    The law as I have said before is a mutable thing. Up to a certain point in history women were not permitted to vote, and women protested (in a prolonged and annoying manner) and this law was repealed. Up to a certain point in history homosexual relations were illegal, and people protested (again in an annoying and uncomfortable manner) and the unjust law was repealed. Up to a certain point in history black people were forbidden to sit near the front of buses in America and Rosa Parkes protested in a way that made the white people on the bus feel repelled....ie by taking a seat amongst them...illegally.

    The point is the law is often an ass, it often takes repeated protest to bring it to account, and undoubtedly future generations will look back on some of our present day ''laws'' (including legally maintained places like Guantanamo Bay and rendition and invasion of privacy by governments and so on and so forth) and wonder why we were so stupid as civilised populations to live with such barbarity.

    Again what proof is their that any of this happened at Shannon ? links please anything, As if your protesting Americans then why not just hang out around Starbucks or dell or Intel. Were you don't have to put other peoples lives at risk.


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    #53
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »
    Okay. There is.
    But i feel there is too much clout here been given to the ''law''.
    The law as I have said before is a mutable thing. Up to a certain point in history women were not permitted to vote, and women protested (in a prolonged and annoying manner) and this law was repealed. Up to a certain point in history homosexual relations were illegal, and people protested (again in an annoying and uncomfortable manner) and the unjust law was repealed. Up to a certain point in history black people were forbidden to sit near the front of buses in America and Rosa Parkes protested in a way that made the white people on the bus feel repelled....ie by taking a seat amongst them...illegally.

    The point is the law is often an ass, it often takes repeated protest to bring it to account, and undoubtedly future generations will look back on some of our present day ''laws'' (including legally maintained places like Guantanamo Bay and rendition and invasion of privacy by governments and so on and so forth) and wonder why we were so stupid as civilised populations to live with such barbarity.

    But the law isn't an ass in this case - there are very strong public safety reasons for excluding unauthorised and untrained people from large chunks of the airside element of airports.

    It also seems the law is being applied very fairly - the prison sentence is not automatic. She was given time to reflect and she decided not to sign the bond.

    If she feels so hard done by, has she lodged an appeal?


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    #54
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Military jet intakes.......and these are the trained guys - it's also hard to believe it but this guy survived.......

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwP_PSNxsf8


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    #55
    Autonomous Cowherd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,100 ✭✭✭Autonomous Cowherd


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Again what proof is their that any of this happened at shannon ? links please anything

    Tell you what darkpagandeath, why don't you prove it hasn't? links please anything...

    To imagine that I can prove Extraordinary Rendition has taken place at Shannon beyond reasonable doubt is asking the impossible. But then you know that. And it makes you feel satisfied that you can plot your course believing it has not. Go ahead. There are very many things that happen in this world that I will not be able to prove to you, (links please anything) but yet still they happen.

    But just to get you started...
    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/us-report-accuses-ireland-of-collusion-in-extraordinary-rendition-flights-583676.html

    http://www.amnesty.ie/content/rendition-flights

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition#Ireland


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    #56
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    seen that one they reckon the helmet coming off first wreaking the blades enough saved his life.
    Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »
    Tell you what darkpagandeath, why don't you prove it hasn't? links please anything...

    To imagine that I can prove Extraordinary Rendition has taken place at Shannon beyond reasonable doubt is asking the impossible. But then you know that. And it makes you feel satisfied that you can plot your course believing it has not. Go ahead. There are very many things that happen in this world that I will not be able to prove to you, (links please anything) but yet still they happen.

    But just to get you started...
    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/us-report-accuses-ireland-of-collusion-in-extraordinary-rendition-flights-583676.html

    http://www.amnesty.ie/content/rendition-flights

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition#Ireland

    So that's a no to proof then, Or I'm guessing some investigation would have found something. Theory's and could not do without help do not prove anything. And Tbh it’s the person making the remarks about this happening job to prove it is.


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    #57
    Pumpkinseeds
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,635 ✭✭✭Pumpkinseeds


    Jawgap wrote: »
    She's paid out of the public purse for her artistic endeavours - a condition of the tax free payment she receives is that she works full time at being an artist. She has, of her own volition, placed herself in a position where she cannot work full time.

    Surely, the arts funding she receives would be better spent by diverting it, perhaps, to another artist who is willing to honour the terms of the payment?

    Wouldn't it be great if the government just paid us and then left us to do what we wanted?

    Don't forget to include the tax payer money that has had to be spent on security when these idiots have held their protests in Shannon. Then factor in the legal expenses to deal with her attention whoring.


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    #58
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 15,814 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Autonomous Cowherd wrote: »
    I think people on here might not quite understand the meaning of the word ''Professional''...it is getting thrown around a lot and in the wrong context. professional means engaged in a specified activity as one's main PAID occupation. Margretta D'Arcy does not get paid to protest. i think you are looking for a different word, like ''regular'' or ''committed'' or i don't know, choose a word yerselves that is more accurate.

    As for those who would have an old lady live in penury for daring to express her opinion, I hope the sun always shines for ye.

    Yes were all know what it means but it's perfectly acceptable to use in the context many have used here. Perhaps felon or criminal would be more to your liking. It's amusing to see this women happily live Off money from the government yet not have the decency to respect its laws. Surely someone in receipt of arts funding which to live off should not have the time to spend weeks and months at a time at protests.

    Most artists I know spend every waking hour at their craft. They don't have time to sit around for days on end doing nothing.

    And by the way none here had a problem with her expressing her opinion. She's welcome to do so, as are the rest of us. What we take issue with is the fact that she believes herself above the law. She has chosen to go back to prison and as such no one should have sympathy for her plight.


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    #59
    czx
    Registered Users Posts: 544 ✭✭✭czx


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Like many profession protesters she's quite happy to accept handouts from the government but which to flaunt the law when it suits het

    Quite a few members of the anti-war groups around Ireland have communist tendancies, so taking government money isn't much of an issue for them. It also goes some way to explain their particularily narrow focus


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    #60
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    czx wrote: »
    Quite a few members of the anti-war groups around Ireland have communist tendancies, so taking government money isn't much of an issue for them. It also goes some way to explain their particularily narrow focus

    They must have missed the parts were communist states have done far far far worse deeds than their hated Americans...


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    #61
    czx
    Registered Users Posts: 544 ✭✭✭czx


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    They must have missed the parts were communist states have done far far far worse deeds than their hated Americans...

    The irony being that she has to actively try and get into prison here, as opposed to being thrown in because she's an artist


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