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Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

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    #1292
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    It that's true, I think it's mad that you won't be able to ride the entire line Broombridge-Cherrywood without transferring.


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    #1293
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,681 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Aard wrote: »
    It that's true, I think it's mad that you won't be able to ride the entire line Broombridge-Cherrywood without transferring.

    You can't do The Point to Saggart without transferring so don't see it being a major issue.

    It makes sense to have split running as the busiest area of the lines require the greatest service and running the complete route means more trains required to provide the service.

    The departures from Sandyford are much more frequent which means city center to Broombridge will have a very good service.

    I don't think anybody can predict how it will play out, it's 3 years away and off peak at the very least this type of running will happen but it may well be end to end for many peak services.


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    #1294
    Aard
    Registered Users Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    I understand why the split is needed, but why not have the following two services: Broombridge-Cherrywood, Parnell-Sandyford. The busier section of the line retains a higher-frequency service, while it is still possible to travel the entire line without transferring.

    The red line services are not comparable as they involve branch lines.


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    #1295
    AngryLips
    Registered Users Posts: 2,682 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    If it is true then what kind of passenger projections did they come up with that told them they only need reduced services Broombridge to city centre vs. Sandyford to city centre? I would've thought that demand would be very similar given both sections are inner city.


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    #1296
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,584 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Aard wrote: »
    I understand why the split is needed, but why not have the following two services: Broombridge-Cherrywood, Parnell-Sandyford. The busier section of the line retains a higher-frequency service, while it is still possible to travel the entire line without transferring.

    The red line services are not comparable as they involve branch lines.


    I really don't think it makes any difference - the numbers of people that will have to change will be minimal, and those that do can do so at Sandyford.

    This way, the higher frequency service will operate between Broombridge and Sandyford, which I think would be more appropriate than from Parnell Street.


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    #1297
    xper
    Registered Users Posts: 1,067 ✭✭✭xper


    AngryLips wrote: »
    If it is true then what kind of passenger projections did they come up with that told them they only need reduced services Broombridge to city centre vs. Sandyford to city centre? I would've thought that demand would be very similar given both sections are inner city.
    I can't recall the projected figures but the simple fact that the completed line will have 6 stops north of the city centre loop and 21 south of SSG (12 to Sandyford) will tell you that there is likely to be a massive imbalance in demand from either side.

    Effectively splitting the operation into two services with large central overlap does make sense in that context. I wonder will the split be absolute and emphasised by branding the two services as different lines (e.g., Green: Bride's Glen - City Centre; Blue: Sandyford - Broombridge). Its commonplace in European cities with large tram networks for mutliple services (usually identified by letter or number rather than a colour!) to use the same track in the city centre, often on a loop too with different services joining and leaving the loop at different points.


    A separate question:
    Has anyone figured out what happens to the cross city service when O'Connell Street is closed for events such as the St Patrick's Day and Easter parades? Y'know, the kind of thing that large numbers of peopel might want to get to on public transport.
    The southern section could revert to terminating at SSG but there doesn't seem to be a convenient turnback option for the northern section.


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    #1298
    Oasis_Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,467 ✭✭✭Oasis_Dublin


    The demand on the Sandyford side includes Dundrum Town Centre, all the offices in the Sandyford Industrial Estate, as well as schools (Beniluds, Gonzaga, Muckross, Loretto on the Green). There's probably a similar population density between Ranelagh and the city centre as there is between town and Phibsboro, but the things mentioned in my first sentence make a difference.


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    #1299
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,951 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    xper wrote: »
    (usually identified by letter or number rather than a colour!)

    We're not alone there though. Portland MAX has Green, Red, Blue and Yellow lines - including use of different colours to refer to different segments/services/spurs on the same core line(s) as we probably should.


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    #1300
    AngryLips
    Registered Users Posts: 2,682 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    MYOB wrote: »
    We're not alone there though. Portland MAX has Green, Red, Blue and Yellow lines - including use of different colours to refer to different segments/services/spurs on the same core line(s) as we probably should.

    I don't understand why more light rail services don't differentiate base on colour - it's so much easier for tourists to understand compared to numbered services.


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    #1301
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    xper wrote: »
    A separate question:
    Has anyone figured out what happens to the cross city service when O'Connell Street is closed for events such as the St Patrick's Day and Easter parades? Y'know, the kind of thing that large numbers of peopel might want to get to on public transport.
    The southern section could revert to terminating at SSG but there doesn't seem to be a convenient turnback option for the northern section.

    Complete guess, but I'd say Brides Glen > Stephen's Green only, no Northside services.


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    #1302
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,584 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    There is a crossover planned on Dominick Street. Trams could operate from Broombridge to Dominick Street in the event of O'Connell Street being closed.


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    #1303
    Five Lamps
    Closed Accounts Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Five Lamps


    AngryLips wrote: »
    I don't understand why more light rail services don't differentiate base on colour - it's so much easier for tourists to understand compared to numbered services.

    Not only trams - there should be a single colour scheme that is applied across both light rail and rail services in Dublin.


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    #1304
    Cinephille1888
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭Cinephille1888


    lxflyer wrote: »
    There is a crossover planned on Dominick Street. Trams could operate from Broombridge to Dominick Street in the event of O'Connell Street being closed.

    This makes sense as the best place to turn back.

    I would love a turn back loop on College Street, but this will likely not happen. It may also not be considered when Lucan Line F expands to Ringsend, if either ever happen.


    Has any further progress been made in squeezing a Northbound stop into Dame Street?

    Seems to conflict too much with buses and cyclists imo, and eats at pedestrian space. It would almost be as tight as Jervis outbound.


    Imo services running on the line are best arranged as Sandyford-Broombridge, Brides Glen- Parnel Street. The Broadstone-Broombridge stretch is comparable to Charlemont-Sandyford on the southern end. (Or Beechwood-Sandyford if you discount the tight road crossing due to slowing for traffic)

    Colouring would also help the distinction.

    I've often hoped on a Red Line in central sections without looking at the end destination. I rarely go further than Busaras, but Connolly stops have annoyed me if I'm going to the Point.


    Will bus routes share track down lower Grafton street Northbound? Many have said Suffolk Street is dangerous and too cramped to continue use as a Central bus stop. I spent 2 months working in the area and would get the 100x to Drogheda from there. The DB double deckers, taxi drivers, trucks, and so on were always all over the place. Cyclists were overshadowed soon to be victims a lot of the time.

    College Green IMO needs better landscaping plans as a plaza then NTAs provisional plan for Westmoreland street and the green. The south side of the Green is under shadow from 3-4 storey buildings and does not get much sunlight outside of summer. The NTA plan has 2 lane bus only traffic on the northside at the bank. I would prefer this were more median or on the south as the plaza, if any, should actually be in the sun all year round...

    Traffic through the green is a headache as it is, but parts should be closed and the area transit priority.

    (squeezing in Fatima-College Green luas is another problem.)


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    #1305
    AngryLips
    Registered Users Posts: 2,682 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    Of course, if Trinity opened up their front lawn instead of being gated off it would enhance the character of that space. It's not as though the gates ever stopped anyone from driving a car through the front doors.


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    #1306
    Oasis_Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,467 ✭✭✭Oasis_Dublin


    How are they going to keep the Catholics out then? #outdatedhumour


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    #1307
    nowecant
    Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    Does anyone have any information on what sort of paving they are planning to use in college green?

    I think one of the most important issues the the heights the tracks. Hopefully in the future the tracks will be flush with the paving throughout the 'plaza' to create a more open space, fully pedestrianized for the people of Dublin. What they have achieved on the west of Stephens Green is quite frankly ugly. Hopefully with the new work and redevelopment of this area they will address that.

    I think i remember seeing some images and plans for this but i cant seem to find them

    I think its more important to remove the railing on front of the bank at college green. move the center and the focus of the square to where the sun is


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    #1308
    Kermit.de.frog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,564 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    I do wonder are any southsiders on the green line worried about the security implications of linking it with the red line and a line to Cabra?

    Junkies and their associates may find new fertile ground to plough on the southside given the new ease of access.

    I live on the northside btw - and not in the best neighborhood! I can forsee problems from my local area and I actually don't think the line should be built to Cabra. I think it's a big mistake socially and economically for the city center because it will only add to the disaster that is the red line and our northside city center which is junkie and scum central partly because of that line.

    The new line will be opening up new horizons! (for some). I say this unfortunately about the locality in which I am from and the new line goes very near. It is a big mistake to build it out to Cabra.


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    #1309
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,584 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    nowecant wrote: »
    Does anyone have any information on what sort of paving they are planning to use in college green?

    I think one of the most important issues the the heights the tracks. Hopefully in the future the tracks will be flush with the paving throughout the 'plaza' to create a more open space, fully pedestrianized for the people of Dublin. What they have achieved on the west of Stephens Green is quite frankly ugly. Hopefully with the new work and redevelopment of this area they will address that.

    I think i remember seeing some images and plans for this but i cant seem to find them

    I think its more important to remove the railing on front of the bank at college green. move the center and the focus of the square to where the sun is

    Well they're going to have to be flush as they will be sharing the space with buses!!


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    #1310
    cgcsb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,297 ✭✭✭cgcsb


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    I do wonder are any southsiders on the green line worried about the security implications of linking it with the red line and a line to Cabra?

    Junkies and their associates may find new fertile ground to plough on the southside given the new ease of access.

    I live on the northside btw - and not in the best neighborhood! I can forsee problems from my local area and I actually don't think the line should be built to Cabra. I think it's a big mistake socially and economically for the city center because it will only add to the disaster that is the red line and our northside city center which is junkie and scum central partly because of that line.

    The new line will be opening up new horizons! (for some). I say this unfortunately about the locality in which I am from and the new line goes very near. It is a big mistake to build it out to Cabra.

    You don't really see that many junkies in Cabra, plenty of scum bags, particularly in North and West Cabra, compared to the relatively middle class parts of the town. The thing is, public transport infrastructure can't be designed around social problems, they must be solved separately.


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    #1311
    Oasis_Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,467 ✭✭✭Oasis_Dublin


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    I do wonder are any southsiders on the green line worried about the security implications of linking it with the red line and a line to Cabra?

    Junkies and their associates may find new fertile ground to plough on the southside given the new ease of access.

    I live on the northside btw - and not in the best neighborhood! I can forsee problems from my local area and I actually don't think the line should be built to Cabra. I think it's a big mistake socially and economically for the city center because it will only add to the disaster that is the red line and our northside city center which is junkie and scum central partly because of that line.

    The new line will be opening up new horizons! (for some). I say this unfortunately about the locality in which I am from and the new line goes very near. It is a big mistake to build it out to Cabra.

    I'd say the most fearful people on the Green Line are the security guards. The worst they have to deal with now are UCD students having a few too many white wine spritzers before going into Harcourt Street. From 2017, the Green Line will potentially be a lot more like the Red Line (I use both).

    I assume there will be a lot more issue with people not having tickets, if the Red Line is anything to go by.

    Having said all that, the DART on the southside isn't so bad, even though it goes to Dún Laoghaire, Bray, and brings those from Bayside out of their own area.


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    #1312
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    The idea of intentionally isolating areas from public services is both immoral and ineffective. Perhaps the provision of extra, much-needed services, starting with good public transport, may go some way to solving the problems of "Junkies and their associates"?


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    #1313
    FreudianSlippers
    Registered Users Posts: 20,397 ✭✭✭✭FreudianSlippers


    Diego Simeone wrote: »
    The idea of intentionally isolating areas from public services is both immoral and ineffective. Perhaps the provision of extra, much-needed services, starting with good public transport, may go some way to solving the problems of "Junkies and their associates"?
    Agreed - most of Cabra isn't such a bad place (some spots are properly dodge tho) and even a lot of the Navan Road area, which is quite nice, has been lumped in with Cabra generally; with good transport links into town it could easily become a better area for young families.


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    #1314
    grimbergen
    Registered Users Posts: 312 ✭✭grimbergen


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    I do wonder are any southsiders on the green line worried about the security implications of linking it with the red line and a line to Cabra?

    Junkies and their associates may find new fertile ground to plough on the southside given the new ease of access.

    I live on the northside btw - and not in the best neighborhood! I can forsee problems from my local area and I actually don't think the line should be built to Cabra. I think it's a big mistake socially and economically for the city center because it will only add to the disaster that is the red line and our northside city center which is junkie and scum central partly because of that line.

    The new line will be opening up new horizons! (for some). I say this unfortunately about the locality in which I am from and the new line goes very near. It is a big mistake to build it out to Cabra.

    This is a clearly wind-up. Ignore the troll


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    #1315
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    grimbergen wrote: »
    This is a clearly wind-up. Ignore the troll
    More like a Muppet! :P


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    #1316
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 34,238 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    I do wonder are any southsiders on the green line worried about the security implications of linking it with the red line and a line to Cabra?

    Junkies and their associates may find new fertile ground to plough on the southside given the new ease of access.

    Fionnuala O'Carroll-Kelly, welcome to Boards.

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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    #1317
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,312 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Oasis_Dublin wrote: »
    How are they going to keep the Catholics out then? #outdatedhumour
    On-topic, constructive posts only please.

    Moderator


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    #1318
    nowecant
    Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭nowecant


    From TCD Director of Buildings in an email sent out to staff and students.
    As before, a Specialist Paving Contractor will be brought in to remove the granite kerb and paving stones etc. These kerbs and paving stones will be kept in storage and re-instated after the completion of the track laying works. A temporary tarmacadam footpath will be constructed in the meantime.

    So it looks like the paving should be safe.


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    #1319
    AngryLips
    Registered Users Posts: 2,682 ✭✭✭AngryLips


    Just looking at the proposals for Luas Line F and it seems that there is no interchange facility for the city centre terminus of this line with BXD. Line F is planned to terminate in College Green at a stop called Trinity but there is no stop planned for BXD at this location. Surely they're going to change the plans for Line F in this case given the lack of an interchange. Between this and the way BXD meets the red line it seems that city centre interchanges are being poorly implemented with some distance between interchange stops. In the case of line F what's stopping them routing line F further north onto Westmoreland St to create a three or four platform terminating stop that is shared with BXD? Wouldn't that make more sense?


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    #1320
    LXFlyer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,584 ✭✭✭✭LXFlyer


    Bear in mind that the plans for Line F were prepared separately and before the current BXD route emerged.

    There's nothing to say that it couldn't connect with line BXD at Trinity College in the long term by continuing to Parnell or Sandyford.

    Having said all that I have misgivings about the Lucan LUAS - I'm not sure that it is going to offer much by way of improvement in terms of speed over the existing bus services to Lucan or indeed Ballyfermot given extensive portions are on-street.

    I certainly would not be convinced that it is a certainty to be built.


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    #1321
    afatbollix
    Registered Users Posts: 4,047 ✭✭✭afatbollix


    If they built line F.

    They should just go around the BXD line in the city centre and then head back out west instead of just stopping at Trinity.


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