Season 4 Episode 1 "Two Swords" : HAVE read the books

Mr Freeze · 08-04-2014 11:10am

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Exactly, it was war propaganda.

Ya, and the more we hear about the Targaryen's, specifically Rhaegar, they didn't sound that bad.

Rhaegar was supposedly planning to remove Aerys, he told Jamie, that when things would be different when he got back from the battle of the Trident (or was he going to the Harrenhal tourney at the this point?).

Rhaegar sounded good anyways. Not the monster Robert would have us believe.

Michael D Not Higgins · 08-04-2014 11:10am

Greyjoy wrote: »

If nothing else the tv series displays how badly GRRM needed a good editor to trim away the fat of the story and reduce the huge cast of characters.

I wouldn't necessarily agree. A book can go into far more detail and explore more stories easier than a TV series can. The wealth of characters gives a richer story and a sense of huge scale.

I'm currently reading the Night's Dawn trilogy which is a space opera and it too has a cast of characters for reference in the back. This is necessary to show scale and multiple plotlines.

Edit: Oh and of course, if we didn't have a huge cast of characters, how could he kill so many of them off?

Michael D Not Higgins · 08-04-2014 11:13am

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Ya, and the more we hear about the Targaryen's, specifically Rhaegar, they didn't sound that bad.

Rhaegar was supposedly planning to remove Aerys, he told Jamie, that when things would be different when he got back from the battle of the Trident (or was he going to the Harrenhal tourney at the this point?).

Rhaegar sounded good anyways. Not the monster Robert would have us believe.

The problem with the Targaryens is how it was described that the gods flip a coin when they're born and it can land either on greatness or madness. (not that it's worked out any better since then)

Witcher · 08-04-2014 11:18am

Mr Freeze wrote: »

Ya, and the more we hear about the Targaryen's, specifically Rhaegar, they didn't sound that bad.

Rhaegar was supposedly planning to remove Aerys, he told Jamie, that when things would be different when he got back from the battle of the Trident (or was he going to the Harrenhal tourney at the this point?).

Rhaegar sounded good anyways. Not the monster Robert would have us believe.

Yeah but he was a fcuking idiot...he alienated two of the kingdom's great houses and his father alienated a third. That's not how to run a kingdom.

Targaryens got what they deserved in all honesty.

Daith · 08-04-2014 11:22am

Blay wrote: »

Yeah but he was a fcuking idiot...he alienated two of the kingdom's great houses and his father alienated a third. That's not how to run a kingdom.

Targaryens got what they deserved in all honesty.

Sounds like the Starks aswell!

Witcher · 08-04-2014 11:23am

Daith wrote: »

Sounds like the Starks aswell!

Alienating 3 Great Houses for absolutely no reason?

Greyjoy · 08-04-2014 11:26am

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

I wouldn't necessarily agree. A book can go into far more detail and explore more stories easier than a TV series can. The wealth of characters gives a richer story and a sense of huge scale.

The books will always give more detail and have a richer story but the sense of scale is still conveyed in the tv series without some of the redundant characters who don't progress the story in any meaningful way. As the books progressed it felt like GRRM was introducing POV chapters for more & more pointless minor characters and just padding out the story.

Daith · 08-04-2014 11:28am

Blay wrote: »

Alienating 3 Great Houses for absolutely no reason?

No, them being fcking idiots :P

Though Robb did alienate houses for a woman too...(mightn't be great houses but def important)

TheDoctor · 08-04-2014 11:31am

Purple wedding in the second episode of the series!!

Internets going to go into meltdown again

fatalll · 08-04-2014 11:36am

Can people please stop giving away what happens in GoT
Create another thread called ... something else and put Spoiler Alert on it also

thanks

Michael D Not Higgins · 08-04-2014 11:36am

Greyjoy wrote: »

The books will always give more detail and have a richer story but the sense of scale is still conveyed in the tv series without some of the redundant characters who don't progress the story in any meaningful way. As the books progressed it felt like GRRM was introducing POV chapters for more & more pointless minor characters and just padding out the story.

Well it's only really in ADWD that we have more minor POV characters and some for good reason, like progressing the storyline in some parts where no major characters are there or for the unique viewpoint.

There is definitely some padding out in the story. The fact that Dany sat around Slaver's Bay for so long is clearly to allow events to unfold in Westeros before her return, but while her story is stretched it's somewhat necessary to have the satisfactory climax for the series.

username123 · 08-04-2014 11:37am

fatalll wrote: »

Can people please stop giving away what happens in GoT
Create another thread called ... something else and put Spoiler Alert on it also

thanks

This thread is for people who HAVE read the books?

Michael D Not Higgins · 08-04-2014 11:37am

fatalll wrote: »

Can people please stop giving away what happens in GoT
Create another thread called ... something else and put Spoiler Alert on it also

thanks

This is the HAVE read the books thread. Go to the HAVEN'T read the books thread.

Kunkka · 08-04-2014 11:38am

fatalll wrote: »

Can people please stop giving away what happens in GoT
Create another thread called ... something else and put Spoiler Alert on it also

thanks

Learn to read the thread title. That is why we have two...

fatalll · 08-04-2014 11:40am

Apologies...its kinda misleading though...
it should really say season 4...(Episode one makes it a bit misleading)

username123 · 08-04-2014 11:42am

fatalll wrote: »

Apologies...its kinda misleading though...
it should really say season 4...(Episode one makes it a bit misleading)

Eh, it says "Season 4 Episode 1 "Two Swords" : HAVE read the books"

Kunkka · 08-04-2014 11:44am

Where is Picard when we need him?

chickenboy · 08-04-2014 11:49am

fatalll wrote: »

Apologies...its kinda misleading though...
it should really say season 4...(Episode one makes it a bit misleading)

Confused Joffrey will have to do....

Mr Freeze · 08-04-2014 12:11pm

So did that guy just spoil The Purple Wedding for himself? How much did he read I wonder.

I really hope he has unfollowed the thread, cause I might post some major spoilers now.

Tom.D.BJJ · 08-04-2014 12:14pm

The part which brought me most joy from the episode is when Joffrey is reading the white book on the Arthur Dayne page. If you pause you can read the previous page. Obviously about Gerold Hightower......and the Tower of Joy.

Dispatched by King Aerys to locate the crown Prince Rhaegar Targaryen in the wake of Robert Baratheon's rebellion.
Died in the Red Mountains of Dorne alongside his sworn brothers, Ser Arthur Dayne and Ser Oswell Whent. After refusing to bow a knee to the new King, Robert Baratheon, all three were defeated by a small force led by Lord Eddard Stark of Winterfell

:):):)

Michael D Not Higgins · 08-04-2014 12:14pm

Mr Freeze wrote: »

So did that guy just spoil The Purple Wedding for himself? How much did he read I wonder.

I really hope he has unfollowed the thread, cause I might post some major spoilers now.

I really hope his face goes purple.

username123 · 08-04-2014 12:15pm

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

The part which brought me most joy from the episode is when Joffrey is reading the white book on the Arthur Dayne page. If you pause you can read the previous page. Obviously about Gerold Hightower......and the Tower of Joy.

:):):)

Good pausing work!!

Tom.D.BJJ · 08-04-2014 12:15pm

Oh and Daario giving Dany a blue rose tilted the **** out of me

Michael D Not Higgins · 08-04-2014 12:17pm

It just struck me they might show the flashback to The Hound saying only cnuts name their swords and open with Joffrey naming his new sword!

ibarelycare · 08-04-2014 12:21pm

I liked the nod to the book readers when Tyrion told Oberyn that he was also a "second son"

Kunkka · 08-04-2014 12:23pm

Mr Freeze wrote: »

So did that guy just spoil The Purple Wedding for himself? How much did he read I wonder.

I really hope he has unfollowed the thread, cause I might post some major spoilers now.

What like that Hodor is a Targ/Dothraki/Stark hybrid?

podgemonster · 08-04-2014 12:42pm

Fantastic episode! Loved Tywin lobbing the wolfskin on spit with an epic rendition of Rains Of Castamere.

Also broke in laughter when Lord Janos scoffs Lord Snows giant warning to find the rest of the council are deadpan serious. Great scene and setup for the future.

Im thinkin Thorne will replace Noye actions in the books only just be bollox to Jon but will die a brother of the nights watch otherwise he'd be proclaimed Lord Commander as Marsh and Pyke are probably cut.

Needed a lil more King Joffrey though considering he's on the out.

GerB40 · 08-04-2014 1:34pm

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

The part which brought me most joy from the episode is when Joffrey is reading the white book on the Arthur Dayne page. If you pause you can read the previous page. Obviously about Gerold Hightower......and the Tower of Joy.

:):):)

Well spotted Tom. Seeing as the writers know the ending this would suggest that the readers will have closure on the whole Tower of joy storyline. Which in turn would suggest that R+L is in fact J..

I don't know how I feel about that.

GerB40 · 08-04-2014 1:48pm

Over on the Have not read the books thread somebody remarked "The Hound is becoming one of my favourite characters, he's gonna die soon isn't he?". Hahaha, my sweet summer children are learning quickly....

Burt Macklin · 08-04-2014 2:03pm

GerB40 wrote: »

Over on the Have not read the books thread somebody remarked "The Hound is becoming one of my favourite characters, he's gonna die soon isn't he?". Hahaha, my sweet summer children are learning quickly....

When discussing this episode with unsullied viewers, they all mention how badass Oberyn and the Hound are. Or wonder when Daenerys is going to get to Westeros. Never sure exactly how to respond ..

chickenboy · 08-04-2014 2:04pm

GerB40 wrote: »

Well spotted Tom. Seeing as the writers know the ending this would suggest that the readers will have closure on the whole Tower of joy storyline. Which in turn would suggest that R+L is in fact J..

I don't know how I feel about that.

I'm almost of the opinion that it'd be better for Jon never to find out about his parentage. It'd be a massive f*ck you to the fans who've spent years discussing it, but it fits with Martins subversion of fantasy tropes.

In a world where the honourable and just generally meet a grisly end to satisfy someone else's political manoeuvring, why should a bastard boy living his life out in the arse end of nowhere eventually discover he's the prince that was promised, and go on to save the world and live happily ever after?

Burt Macklin · 08-04-2014 2:07pm

Technically speaking though, The Hound is dead, but Sandor Clegane might still be around somewhere. This was doing the rounds on reddit a while back

Riskymove · 08-04-2014 2:07pm

Burt Macklin wrote: »

Quentyn

do you mean Oberyn?

Burt Macklin · 08-04-2014 2:13pm

Riskymove wrote: »

do you mean Oberyn?

Yeah sorry, too many damn names to keep track of!

On that note, is there any significance to the fact that they haven't called him the Red Viper on the show yet? I feel that may come up at some point, maybe some exposition about how he likes to poison people.

Sleepy · 08-04-2014 2:16pm

Some prick on Facebook spoilered the purple wedding on my wife this morning... first thing she said to me this morning: "Does Joffrey die in the wedding?!" :mad:

I lied but, even then, the surprise will be ruined for her now. :mad:

GerB40 · 08-04-2014 2:17pm

Burt Macklin wrote: »

Technically speaking though, The Hound is dead, but Sandor Clegane might still be around somewhere. This was doing the rounds on reddit a while back

Well if Sandor is in fact the gravedigger (at the summer isles?) viewers won't be seeing him for a while, if at all. It's still unclear if he has any relevance to the story but I hope to see a Clegane showdown with the gravedigger (representing the faith) and Robert Strong (representing the crown). Sounds almost too good to happen but who knows??

Mr Freeze · 08-04-2014 2:21pm

Sleepy wrote: »

Some prick on Facebook spoilered the purple wedding on my wife this morning... first thing she said to me this morning: "Does Joffrey die in the wedding?!" :mad:

Facebook and YouTube are a disaster for people posting spoilers.

The Red Wedding got spoiled for my wife last year from a YouTube comment on a HBO Trailer for an episode.

Like you, I lied. But with the constant pestering, I had to come clean and say that something happens alrite. She couldn't let it rest.

Tom.D.BJJ · 08-04-2014 2:22pm

With Sandor not getting injured, it got me to thinking about how he will "die". I think the chicken might have been poisoned.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 08-04-2014 2:26pm

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

With Sandor not getting injured, it got me to thinking about how he will "die". I think the chicken might have been poisoned.

i wonder will they even bother.. himself and arya seem to be getting along pretty well in the tv show in a weird sort of brother/sister sort of way. it's been a long time but I remember their relationship in the books being alot more adversarial

Witcher · 08-04-2014 2:29pm

The Hound did get injured, took a cut across the back or the back of his leg.

Tavern fight is up on YT if you want to see it.

Burt Macklin · 08-04-2014 2:29pm

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

With Sandor not getting injured, it got me to thinking about how he will "die". I think the chicken might have been poisoned.

Hmm, that's a bit of a stretch because everyone else in the tavern was eating it too.

I expect them to stretch out the whole 'adventures of Arya and the Hound' for a while, then have some climactic showdown where he gets mortally injured and she leaves for Braavos. Although he did get a bad leg wound in that fight, so maybe that will be it.

Mr Freeze · 08-04-2014 2:30pm

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

i wonder will they even bother.. himself and arya seem to be getting along pretty well in the tv show in a weird sort of brother/sister sort of way. it's been a long time but I remember their relationship in the books being alot more adversarial

I am thinking the same, Its one change I would like, keep The Hound a bit longer.

I assume they might get into another brawl at some stage and then he gets injured.

The Gift of Mercy would be in episode 3 or 4.

I think people said they suspect that Stannis will be taking a detour to Braavos, to the Iron Bank, instead of the Iron Bank seeking him out later. I wouldn't be surprised if we see Arya get a lift on one of his ships. Obviously they won't know who she is or anything, just a Braavosi ship or sailer in Stannis's fleet will let her on after showing the coin, same as in the books.

Tom.D.BJJ · 08-04-2014 2:31pm

Burt Macklin wrote: »

Hmm, that's a bit of a stretch because everyone else in the tavern was eating it too.

Yes, i think the innkeeper was poisoning Polliver and his crew knowing that they were going to kill him and his daughter/wife before leaving anyway.

GerB40 · 08-04-2014 2:32pm

Tom.D.BJJ wrote: »

With Sandor not getting injured, it got me to thinking about how he will "die". I think the chicken might have been poisoned.

If they "kill off" The Hound by fúckin food poisoning I'll go spare. It just dawned on me that Maisie Williams (Arya) said in an interview that book readers will be very surprised by her storyline this season. I'm just throwing this out there, perhaps Arya somehow fúcks him up. It would really show her descent into ice cold killer and as Maisie said, it would surprise the fúck out of readers...

Shazbot · 08-04-2014 3:41pm

That was a solid season opener. As others have said, it suffers from the fact that it has to remind the audience of the previous season and does little to advance the plot too much. We'll probably have the same next week for Bran and the Greyjoys.

Nice catch on the white book Tom. It's interesting that Duncan the Tall has a lot of pages. Do we hear about his achievements in the Kingsguard at any stage in ASOIAF?

The scene at the inn stole the episode. "What the ****'s a Lommy?". It looks like the show has already caught up with The Winds of Winter with Arya getting her revenge. Although it's a different character. I wonder how they'll kill the Hound now? Food poisoning would be a bad way to go for a character like him. Hopefully the leg wound festers and we'll get Arya refusing to kill him later.

Roll on episode 2.

Sleepy · 08-04-2014 3:54pm

Shazbot wrote: »

It looks like the show has already caught up with The Winds of Winter with Arya getting her revenge.

This scene goes down a little differently in the books but Arya does kill two men to recover Needle in ASOS:

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/A_Storm_of_Swords-Chapter_74/

Shazbot · 08-04-2014 4:24pm

Sleepy wrote: »

This scene goes down a little differently in the books but Arya does kill two men to recover Needle in ASOS:

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/A_Storm_of_Swords-Chapter_74/

Yeah i remember Arya manically killing Polliver to retrieve Needle. I was thinking about the way in which she killed him was a scene from TWoW as vengence for Lommy.

jackjustjumped · 08-04-2014 5:22pm

I think Maisie Williams is doing an amazing job. The look on her face after the tavern scene was perfect. The little psychopath.

FunLover18 · 08-04-2014 5:28pm

Arya is such a popular character amongst the non-bookies (bookies opinions seems to be more varied), I can't wait to see their reaction when she ****s off to Braavos and joins a religious order. To piss off the non-bookies I'd love if they had her selling clams for a whole season

jackjustjumped · 08-04-2014 5:42pm

FunLover18 wrote: »

Arya is such a popular character amongst the non-bookies (bookies opinions seems to be more varied), I can't wait to see their reaction when she ****s off to Braavos and joins a religious order. To piss off the non-bookies I'd love if they had her selling clams for a whole season

Thing is, most of my show-only friends adore Syrio and Jaqen so I reckon any mention of Braavos will be well received.

Season 4 Episode 1 "Two Swords" : HAVE read the books

Comments