Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

TNG run-through...

Options
12357…12

Comments

  • Options
    #122
    norrie rugger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,656 ✭✭✭norrie rugger


    Kiith wrote: »
    Darmok and Jalad at at Tanagra.

    Absolutely love this episode.

    Also, Enterprise D was the best Enterprise. I always had a soft spot for the Akira class though.

    akiriacgitopfront1.jpg

    That, the Steamrunner and the Sabre were all lovely.
    I really liked where they were going with ship designs, pity that we never got to see a series with them


  • Options
    #123
    helimachoptor
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    Does anyone know why Picard got the uniform change that was in the Darmok episode?


  • Options
    #124
    norrie rugger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,656 ✭✭✭norrie rugger


    'cause it was awesome


  • Options
    #125
    Sad Professor
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,671 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sad Professor


    I’ve moved the shuttle bay position discussion to the That just doesn't make sense thread.


  • Options
    #126
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    I've been neglecting this thread somewhat, so as of now, I've just finished S3E13 Deja Q. It's actually a great episode, one that flew over my radar before. Q is brilliant, & so well acted.

    The other night I watched The Defector, really love that episode. The Romulan in it is so well acted, & it's such a great Romulan story too. Before that, Survivors & The Enemy were fairly stand out episodes too. Though the Romulan that Geordi befriends on Galorndan Core was really generic & non interesting...I felt the episode would have been better if it focused more on their interactions, rather than what was going on on the Enterprise etc.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #127
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Yesterdays Enterprise...that's how you do Star Trek.


  • Options
    #128
    Greyjoy
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭Greyjoy


    There's something that never quite sat right with me about the "Defector" episode. Picard berates Jarok and brands him as a traitor when he won't provide Romulan military secrets. Then at the end of the episode he literally gives a deathbed eulogy praising Jarok when they find that he has committed suicide. It just seemed really hypocritical for Picard to praise Jarok's courage at the end of the episode when he never acknowledged the sacrifice that Jarok had made while the guy was still alive.

    "You already betrayed your people, Admiral! You made your choices sir! You're a traitor! Now if the bitter taste of that is unpalatable to you I am truly sorry, but I will not risk my crew because you think you can dance on the edge of the Neutral Zone. You crossed over, Admiral. You make yourself comfortable with that."

    "Today, perhaps. But if there are others with the courage of Admiral Jarok, we may hope to see a day of peace when we can take his letter home."


  • Options
    #129
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Greyjoy wrote: »
    There's something that never quite sat right with me about the "Defector" episode. Picard berates Jarok and brands him as a traitor when he won't provide Romulan military secrets. Then at the end of the episode he literally gives a deathbed eulogy praising Jarok when they find that he has committed suicide. It just seemed really hypocritical for Picard to praise Jarok's courage at the end of the episode when he never acknowledged the sacrifice that Jarok had made while the guy was still alive.

    "You already betrayed your people, Admiral! You made your choices sir! You're a traitor! Now if the bitter taste of that is unpalatable to you I am truly sorry, but I will not risk my crew because you think you can dance on the edge of the Neutral Zone. You crossed over, Admiral. You make yourself comfortable with that."

    "Today, perhaps. But if there are others with the courage of Admiral Jarok, we may hope to see a day of peace when we can take his letter home."

    Interesting. From Picard's perspective though, when he spoke to Jarok in the ready room he wasn't fully convinced that this wasn't all some Romulan ploy to get the Enterprise to violate the Neutral Zone, thus giving the Romulans cause to start an incident. If Picard was to violate the treaty, he was going to need some assurances in order to do so...protection from the Warbirds...& he got it. However, as the episode played out, & Tomalok explained in front of Picard that Jarok was fed false information to test his loyalty, & that Jarok was indeed, acting with the very best of intentions, it was clearer that the Admiral was very much a brave man.


  • Options
    #130
    DenMan
    Registered Users Posts: 7,961 ✭✭✭DenMan


    +1

    Also from Picard's perspective he wasn't going to fully commit to such a massive mission unless he had complete co-operation from Jarok. Destroying his ship not long after he came on board certainly didn't ad to the trust factor. When Picard called him a traitor he was speaking as a neutral. He was speaking to him as to how his own people would view him and that he had make himself accept that.


  • Options
    #131
    Greyjoy
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭Greyjoy


    Picard was completely right to be suspicious of 'Setal'/Jarok initially given the Romulans Empire's fondness for subterfuge. But he doesn't deliver those lines about Jarok being a traitor in a neutral way - he barks them at Jarok quite aggressively. If they had just given Picard a moment at the end of the episode with here he acknowledges Jarok's sacrifice to him face to face in an effort to provide some solace to the guy. It would have made a nice 'Trek' moment about not pre-judging others.

    Instead Jarok takes his life believing that he's sacrificed his life & family for nothing. Picard's words at his bedside are both empty & hypocritical, they might have meant something if Jarok himself had heard them.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #132
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Greyjoy wrote: »
    Picard was completely right to be suspicious of 'Setal'/Jarok initially given the Romulans Empire's fondness for subterfuge. But he doesn't deliver those lines about Jarok being a traitor in a neutral way - he barks them at Jarok quite aggressively. If they had just given Picard a moment at the end of the episode with here he acknowledges Jarok's sacrifice to him face to face in an effort to provide some solace to the guy. It would have made a nice 'Trek' moment about not pre-judging others.

    Instead Jarok takes his life believing that he's sacrificed his life & family for nothing. Picard's words at his bedside are both empty & hypocritical, they might have meant something if Jarok himself had heard them.

    Did Picard pre-judge Jarok though? Not really:

    1) He destroyed his own ship, meaning he didn't want any Romulan tech to fall into Federation hands...which is exactly what you'd expect a loyal Romulan to exactly do.

    2) He lied about his name, & position.

    3) He wasn't eager to provide any information, even such info Picard could use to ensure the safety of the ship while investigating Jarok's claims. Exactly again, how you'd expect a loyal Romulan officer to behave.

    Given the above, I think Picard was wholly justifed in being so skeptical of Jarok....right up until when he knew for sure, that Jarok was true to his word.


  • Options
    #133
    Greyjoy
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭Greyjoy


    Picard adopts a very 'black or white' attitude to Jarok - in his eyes Jarok's either a complete traitor willing to divulge any & all secrets of the Romulan Empire or he's a double agent. Picard never entertains the idea that Jarok might actually be a conflicted officer who simply wants to avert a needless war, in that scenario destroying his ship and not providing other military secrets makes sense. The idea that a Romulan officer would want to avert a war doesn't enter Picard's mind.

    But once Picard has proof of Jarok's true intentions at the end of the episode he still doesn't acknowledge what Jarok has sacrificed in the cause of peace. It's very easy of Picard to praise Jarok after the fact once he's dead but maybe Jarok hearing those words himself might have actually kept him from taking his life.


  • Options
    #134
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Greyjoy wrote: »
    Picard adopts a very 'black or white' attitude to Jarok - in his eyes Jarok's either a complete traitor willing to divulge any & all secrets of the Romulan Empire or he's a double agent. Picard never entertains the idea that Jarok might actually be a conflicted officer who simply wants to avert a needless war, in that scenario destroying his ship and not providing other military secrets makes sense. The idea that a Romulan officer would want to avert a war doesn't enter Picard's mind.

    Had Picard not entered the Neutral Zone I might agree, but the fact he did, & risked his ship & the treaty by doing so...means he was willing to entertain the prospect that Jarok was telling the truth, despite the past lies.
    But once Picard has proof of Jarok's true intentions at the end of the episode he still doesn't acknowledge what Jarok has sacrificed in the cause of peace. It's very easy of Picard to praise Jarok after the fact once he's dead but maybe Jarok hearing those words himself might have actually kept him from taking his life.

    I don't think it was the scorn of Picard that made Jarok take his life...he spoke a lot about his family, & how they'll grow up believing he was a traitor...that for me was why he did it.


  • Options
    #135
    Greyjoy
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭Greyjoy


    Picard's scorn isn't the reason for Jarok taking his life but his turnabout in attitude is still hypocritical. Even after the truth about Nelvana is revealed Picard disdainfully tells Jarok "They let you escape with an arsenal of worthless secrets". He won't admit that Jarok's intentions were honorable instead he dismisses Jarok as a gullible patsy. Yet moments later in the episode Picard's praising Jarok's courage when they discover he's dead.


  • Options
    #136
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Greyjoy wrote: »
    Picard's scorn isn't the reason for Jarok taking his life but his turnabout in attitude is still hypocritical. Ever after the truth about Nelvana is revealed Picard disdainfully tells Jarok "They let you escape with an arsenal of worthless secrets". Yet moments later in the episode Picard's praising Jarok's courage when they discover he's dead.

    Again I think any 'attitude' towards Jaork was justified, up until the truth was known. Hind-sight is a wonderful thing, & in a situation like that, I think Picard going into the Neutral Zone was a big a gesture of trust as you could possibly make.

    The 'worthless secrets' line, I think reflected Picard's anger that he indeed had, fallen pray to a Romulan plot...I don't think that hostility was directed at Jarok specifically though, certainly the anger would have been inward too.


  • Options
    #137
    Greyjoy
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭Greyjoy


    Myrddin wrote: »
    Again I think any 'attitude' towards Jaork was justified, up until the truth was known. Hind-sight is a wonderful thing, & in a situation like that, I think Picard going into the Neutral Zone was a big a gesture of trust as you could possibly make.

    I would agree that skepticism on Picard's behalf is totally warranted in the situation up until the truth is revealed and that going into the neutral zone is a pretty big gesture on Picard's behalf. But once the truth is revealed Picard never acknowledges Jarok's sacrifice to his face.
    Myrddin wrote: »
    The 'worthless secrets' line, I think reflected Picard's anger that he indeed had, fallen pray to a Romulan plot...I don't think that hostility was directed at Jarok specifically though, certainly the anger would have been inward too.

    This I suppose comes down to interpretation of Stewart's delivery. For me there's no inward anger - Picard is looking directly at Jarok when he delivers the lines in a scornful tone. If the Enterprise had been caught without the Klingon ships then yes I could see Picard being angered. But he suspected a trap and brought the Klingons with him. Why would he be annoyed if the Romulans lived up to his suspicions?

    Jarok has that moment of realization on the bridge where he remarks that he has sacrificed his family and his life "for nothing" but still there's no acknowledgement of that from Picard. Then moments later Jarok is dead and Picard's saying what a great guy he was.


  • Options
    #138
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Greyjoy wrote: »
    IWhy would he be annoyed if the Romulans lived up to his suspicions?

    They were brought to the very brink of war in that episode, & Picard's suspicions all along were correct...that it was indeed a Romulan ploy. There was a pretty big incident caused, with two Warbirds firing upon a Federation ship too...so although Picard had backup, he was lucky.

    You're correct in that Picards tone was somewhat unapologietic when delivering that line...I've always read into it though that it was because of the above...not trusting his gut, which bred that tone & anger.


  • Options
    #139
    SarahBM
    Registered Users Posts: 4,906 ✭✭✭SarahBM


    I shall rejoin you when you get up to S5. for now Im up to my eyeballs with college work and I was trying to catch up on other shows too.

    I wish I had more hours in the day.


  • Options
    #140
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    The Offspring, another great Data episode. I loved when Picard told Data to delay Admirals orders to transfer Lal over to him...fantastic stuff.

    Allegiances tonight....

    "Come, cheer up, my lads, 'tis to glory we steer,
    To add something more to this wonderful year;
    To honour we call you, as freemen not slaves,
    For who are so free as the sons of the waves?"


  • Options
    #141
    SarahBM
    Registered Users Posts: 4,906 ✭✭✭SarahBM


    While I was putting off doing college work yesterday I ended up watching the first few episodes of season 5.
    The episode with the Bajoran Ensign Ro, the actress playing her, I swear everything I have seen her in, I have hated her character. most recently a recurring role in Chicago Fire. and I hated her in Battlestar too. Im starting to think she is type cast to be the hated one. LOL

    I would much rather spend the day in bed watching TNG than doing this torturous essay, but alas it must be finished.

    I wonder is Starfleet as hard as college, I bet its more fun at least. :rollseyes:


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #142
    IvySlayer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,187 ✭✭✭✭IvySlayer


    Myrddin wrote: »
    The Offspring, another great Data episode. I loved when Picard told Data to delay Admirals orders to transfer Lal over to him...fantastic stuff.

    Allegiances tonight....

    "Come, cheer up, my lads, 'tis to glory we steer,
    To add something more to this wonderful year;
    To honour we call you, as freemen not slaves,
    For who are so free as the sons of the waves?"

    Order a man to turn his child over to the State, not while I'm his Captain

    Fcuk yeah!!!


  • Options
    #143
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    IvySlayer wrote: »
    Order a man to turn his child over to the State, not while I'm his Captain

    Fcuk yeah!!!

    It's one of those moments you just get filled with admiration. Star Trek, exploration of the human condition at its very finest


  • Options
    #144
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Finished Redemption last night, which ends season 4 & begins season 5. Some great great Star Trek along the way, just too busy enjoying it to be posting about it tbh :o


  • Options
    #145
    IvySlayer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,187 ✭✭✭✭IvySlayer


    Can't decide what's better, season 4 or season 5. Star Trek at its finest.

    It's a toughie, then I think of season 3....damn it...TNG so good


  • Options
    #146
    Goldstein
    Registered Users Posts: 1,551 ✭✭✭Goldstein


    IvySlayer wrote: »
    Can't decide what's better, season 4 or season 5. Star Trek at its finest.

    It's a toughie, then I think of season 3....damn it...TNG so good

    I always thought season 6 had the highest number of consistently good eps. Even discounting Descent which I'm not mad about you still have really great eps like Chain of Command I&II, Schisms, Tapestry, Frame of Mind, Relics, Realm of Fear, The Chase, Timescape...

    Not being able to decide which is the most awesome season is a good problem to have mind you :)


  • Options
    #147
    IvySlayer
    Registered Users Posts: 17,187 ✭✭✭✭IvySlayer


    Goldstein wrote: »
    I always thought season 6 had the highest number of consistently good eps. Even discounting Descent which I'm not mad about you still have really great eps like Chain of Command I&II, Schisms, Tapestry, Frame of Mind, Relics, Realm of Fear, The Chase, Timescape...

    Not being able to decide which is the most awesome season is a good problem to have mind you :)

    Season 7 was woeful, they really had some wtf moments, running out of ideas. Parallels, Gambit, Lower Decks, Genesis were decent with All Good Things being fantastic.

    So 3-6 they just really hit their stide


  • Options
    #148
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Season 5 - "Disaster". Bloody hell Keiko, you're not really in labour! I had to mute the episode there incase anyone else in the house thought I was watching porn! :D


  • Options
    #149
    StompToWork
    Registered Users Posts: 905 ✭✭✭StompToWork


    I'm on Season 6 at the mo, and I forgot how many good episodes there were in it. Frame of Mind, Tapestry, Starship Mine, and of course, the Chain of Command 2-parter. "THERE. ARE. FOUR. LIGHTS". That moment never fails to bring a tear to my eye in pride.


  • Options
    #150
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Just to say also, Patrick Stewart & Brent Spiner are just masterful in TNG (well, in everything they do really!). Both characters hit the ground running, from Encounter at Farpoint you were just comfortable with them right away.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #151
    Vojera
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,812 ✭✭✭Vojera


    I'm a newbie to Star Trek. I bought the TNG box set for my OH a few weeks ago and we're up as far as Datalore in Season 1.

    Im really enjoying it so far. Before this I've seen the odd episode here and there but other than the two rebooted films that's the limit of my experience.

    I have been getting a countdown each episode to Tasha's death. Does everyone hate her as much as my OH?


Advertisement