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Saorview PVR Box has arrived.

123457

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 417 ✭✭bridster007


    What Panny PVR do you have?

    DMR-HW220 (2012 model)


  • Registered Users Posts: 327 ✭✭haymur


    Was having same problem on my Humax T2 over last few nights with series link not working on RTE1. Checked guide and found it was showing as unnamed channel on 800. did a auto search retune and found channel 819 was now listing as RTE1 HD and 800 showed as unnamed channel and a footnote saying retune needed. I set up series link on RTE1 HD and it worked tonight so I hope the problem is solved


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,747 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Tried to set up some programmes to record over the coming days this morning on the Walker PVR.

    It gives me the option to record a single programme or the whole series. When I select to record the series the screen exits without setting the timer/series link for the programme. Had to select the record programme option.

    Did a rescan on the box but problem remains.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1 Rock Hopper


    I have exactly the same problem, series link doesn't work but I can record individual programs. It's been this way for about a week. This is on the official PVR.

    Some older series recordings did continued to work.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,747 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    I've just noticed the programmes I tried to series link this morning are saved to the timer but with no start time or date and the message "Not yet scheduled" eventhough they are in the epg.

    Since RTÉNL/2RN moved away from Donnybrook we've seen too many ****-ups with this, did they leave all the good people behind?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 112 ✭✭mjhickeyie


    The Cush wrote: »
    I've just noticed the programmes I tried to series link this morning are saved to the timer but with no start time or date and the message "Not yet scheduled" eventhough they are in the epg.


    After this post last night I checked my recordings.

    I have both Love/Hate and Homeland on series link at the moment.
    Next weeks Love/Hate is showing on the timer with the 'Not yet scheduled' message, however, next weeks Homeland is set to record as normal.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭galtee boy


    Tempted to invest in one of these Walker Saorview PVR's, but are you guys still having problems with series link ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭galtee boy


    The Cush wrote: »
    Tried to set up some programmes to record over the coming days this morning on the Walker PVR.

    It gives me the option to record a single programme or the whole series. When I select to record the series the screen exits without setting the timer/series link for the programme. Had to select the record programme option.

    Did a rescan on the box but problem remains.

    I am tempted to buy one of these Walker Pvrs, but not if series link is still not working properly. What's the latest re these series link problems ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 401 ✭✭holidaysong


    It's working fine for me at the moment. To be honest, most of the shows I would usually have on series link are off air at the moment though so hard to tell 100%.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,747 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    galtee boy wrote: »
    Tempted to invest in one of these Walker Saorview PVR's, but are you guys still having problems with series link ?

    Yes, worked Ok over the Christmas/New Year period but on Monday I went to set the series link for Vikings on RTÉ2 this Sunday, same as before the epg series link option was available but when selected it saved the programme to timer with a "not yet scheduled" message. Went back a few hours later and it saved OK but 2 timers scheduled for Mon evening did not start as scheduled even though they were highlighted in the epg and correctly scheduled in the timer. Had to do a first time installation and redo all the timers.

    Since that evening timers scheduled for Tue and Wed have recorded successfully.

    When it works, it works reasonably well except there's no buffer/padding option for regular early programme starts and late endings. Most programmes appear to start a min or two before the epg scheduled start time.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭galtee boy


    The Cush wrote: »
    Yes, worked Ok over the Christmas/New Year period but on Monday I went to set the series link for Vikings on RTÉ2 this Sunday, same as before the epg series link option was available but when selected it saved the programme to timer with a "not yet scheduled" message. Went back a few hours later and it saved OK but 2 timers scheduled for Mon evening did not start as scheduled even though they were highlighted in the epg and correctly scheduled in the timer. Had to do a first time installation and redo all the timers.

    Since that evening timers scheduled for Tue and Wed have recorded successfully.

    When it works, it works reasonably well except there's no buffer/padding option for regular early programme starts and late endings. Most programmes appear to start a min or two before the epg scheduled start time.

    Thanks for the update. Not very reliable or inspiring, by the sounds of it. I want to be able to set up the soaps for my good wife, sports etc for myself, series link them and then forget about it, knowing that the box is doing what I asked it to do, aka Sky+, but this box sounds totally unreliable. Is it a box fault, or something to do with RTE and their method of sending series link information ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,930 ✭✭✭zg3409


    Well naturally the box is totally reliant on Saorview/RTE sending the correct info out. If you read in this thread you can see they have no way of adjusting the guide to account for shows running late, so any shows not appearing at the correct time will not record correctly. The BBC can change it's guide on the fly.

    Also recently Saorview has moved/added channels so that seems to be having some effect on reliability with full resets required.

    On a side not I used a Samsung Saorview TV recently (no sure exact model; but I could find out) and when a USB hard drive was added it could record. It also had the option to start recordings before the displayed start time (say 10 minutes) to allow for shows starting early and running late.

    The downside is that it only has a single tuner. I am not sure the exact drawbacks in terms of watching one show and recording another, but presumably it cannot record 2 shows at the same time and you may be forced to watch the same show you were recording. It did not have series link either, but if you have such a TV at least there is a higher chance you would get the whole show recorded. It seemed quite easy to use and the interface was slightly better than the Walker PVR.

    It also shows that this feature is a fairly basic option and the Walker unit should have it. I know Walker read this thread in the past so possibly they will get the hint.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Vestel needs to change it. A high proportion of cheaper UK and other European brands are also badges on Vestel Kit. SW & HW R&D is in UK & USA (I forget which is which) and HQ + Manufacturing in Turkey.

    Walker is only an Irish Marketing company, ex Mitsubishi Ireland Distribution. In the later "Black Diamond" CRT days the sets were Vestel.

    However a big problem seems to be the info RTE is feeding.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,747 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Just an update on my last post, after doing a first time reinstall early last week 2 timers I setup at that time failed to start recording last night, Vikings on RTÉ2 and Mean Streets on RTÉ1.

    Luckily I was there and watching Vikings so during a break I went in and deleted both failed timers and reset both via the epg, Mean Streets on RTÉ1+1 and the remainder of Vikings on RTÉ2. Vikings started recording instantly and Mean Street on +1 started at the scheduled time.

    I see the Saorview+ ads are back again on TV and radio, I don't whether to laugh or cry :(

    Looking forward to huggs2 report on the Humax HDR-2000T when he sets it up - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=88624149#post88624149


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,953 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Hmm. My Walker PVR has crapped itself twice since new year, going to the first time installation / tuning screen when turned on.
    Didn't lose any existing recordings though.
    Had a couple of failures of series link timers before Christmas, don't trust it any more.

    A really bad feature is that all recordings go into the same folder and it doesn't seem to be possible to create folders, this leads to a real mess. I want to put all the kids' shows/films in one place, for instance.

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,601 ✭✭✭cerastes


    Any other soarview pvrs or pvrs that can be used with soarview?


  • Registered Users Posts: 327 ✭✭haymur


    I have two Humax sat boxes and a Humax Saorview compatible DTT box and they all work very well


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,930 ✭✭✭zg3409


    There is only one approved by Saorview at the moment. There is some issues with non approved boxes. There are also issues with the approved box.

    All boxes rely in Saorview/RTE sending the correct info. RTE have said they cannot extend the show times in the Electronic Guide when shows run late (unlike BBC) meaning live shows and shows appearing after a live show, will possibly not record the start/end due to the times slipping, without the guide being updated.

    It seems less reliable than say Sky's series link.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,747 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    haymur wrote: »
    I have two Humax sat boxes and a Humax Saorview compatible DTT box and they all work very well

    Which Humax DTT receiver do you use?
    How does it handle the display, recording and playback of subtitles? An important issue in my household.
    Is there a padding/buffer option if a recording was to start early or finish late?
    Any problems with series link?

    huggs2 is in the process of purchasing a Humax HDT-2000T DTT receiver, he is due to report back in due course on how it performs with Saorview - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=88624149.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 120 ✭✭In the old days


    zg3409 wrote: »
    There is only one approved by Saorview at the moment. There is some issues with non approved boxes. There are also issues with the approved box.....

    All boxes rely in Saorview/RTE sending the correct info.
    Hope I'm not hijacking the thread but I notice on some of the saorview series links,particularly on TV3 (e.g.Vincent Browne or their Breakfast show) if you check the series link info on say, a Monday it shows all the others episodes that week as repeats. The pvr then does not record the repeats. I'm using a Panasonic unapproved PVR but I suspect it may be the same case with the approved one. Seems a pity they cannot co-ordinate the technology with more accurate data uploads. I also suspect because almost nobody has saorview PVRs nobody in charge notices or really cares.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,747 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    I also suspect because almost nobody has saorview PVRs nobody in charge notices or really cares.

    I suspect you're correct, but they did go to the trouble of making this ad - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=87458979


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 120 ✭✭In the old days


    The Cush wrote: »
    I suspect you're correct, but they did go to the trouble of making this ad - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=87458979

    Indeed. All the more frustrating!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,930 ✭✭✭zg3409


    There was a report of vincent browne problems before (possibly on this thread) and I contacted TV3 and RTENL 2RN and they said everything was OK. It wasn't exactly the same problem.

    I might get a chance to test it, but in the mean time I would ask all those with series link to test it, and if you have Sky to also test it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 539 ✭✭✭captain_boycott


    any update on the series link issue on the WP6500TTR?

    Is it still any issue, is this box still unreliable or were the problems more network related?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,747 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Is it still any issue, is this box still unreliable or were the problems more network related?

    problems remain, replaced mine with a Panasonic PVR/Blu-ray player recently. Much more user friendly and no series link issues with it so far.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,911 ✭✭✭kooga


    The Cush wrote: »
    problems remain, replaced mine with a Panasonic PVR/Blu-ray player recently. Much more user friendly and no series link issues with it so far.

    cush, what model pana did you buy?

    Tks


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,747 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    kooga wrote: »
    cush, what model pana did you buy?

    DMR-PWT635


  • Registered Users Posts: 539 ✭✭✭captain_boycott


    The Cush wrote: »
    problems remain, replaced mine with a Panasonic PVR/Blu-ray player recently. Much more user friendly and no series link issues with it so far.

    Thanks Cush. That would align with the guys on another thread that said they were having no issues with series link on a humax box.

    So it seems it's not a network or RTE issue but just the walker box.... Pity as what I really need is a reliable box that can record one Irish channel while watching another.. The search goes on!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,467 ✭✭✭mackersdublin


    Thanks Cush. That would align with the guys on another thread that said they were having no issues with series link on a humax box.

    So it seems it's not a network or RTE issue but just the walker box.... Pity as what I really need is a reliable box that can record one Irish channel while watching another.. The search goes on!

    And the only Saorview+ Approved box is the Walker WP6500TTR - Only in Ireland :)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,747 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    And the only Saorview+ Approved box is the Walker WP6500TTR - Only in Ireland :)

    The result of the hybrid DTT standard Saorview uses unfortunately (Nordig + MHEG5), a standard not used elsewhere. A legacy of the failed commercial DTT project from 2008 when the Nordic/Swedish DTT STB specification was the standard to be used by the Swedish/Irish consortium Boxer who won the commercial DTT contract back in Jul 2008 but withdrew less than a year later leaving RTÉ to manage the spec for Saorview.

    I've had the Walker since it was launched last year and basically found it to be a pile of ****e overall, recently replaced it with a Panasonic freeview+ spec box (reliable so far).

    In hindsight Saorview is using the wrong standard, we should be using the D-Book UK Freeview standard. There is a broad range of Freeview PVRs on the market unlike the situation here with only a single approved PVR available from a company that is basically a TV/STB importer/distributor.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,953 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    I don't think the Freeview HD standard was out at the time though. We'd have ended up with SD simulcasting.

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,747 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    ninja900 wrote: »
    I don't think the Freeview HD standard was out at the time though. We'd have ended up with SD simulcasting.

    We didn't have to wait for UK FreeviewHD (aka DVB-T2/MPEG-4/MHEG-5), New Zealand's Freeview DTT receiver specification uses the UK D-Book standard with DVB-T/MPEG-4 SD & HD video and was published in late 2007. DTG Testing in the UK carries out receiver conformance testing.

    http://www.freeviewnz.tv/about-freeview/equipment-supply-chain
    http://www.freeviewnz.tv/media/9325/freeviewhd_dtt_receiver_specification_v2_0.pdf
    http://www.freeviewnz.tv/media/9348/freeview_dtt_transmission_rules_2_1.pdf

    The reason we're stuck with Nordig/MHEG-5 is down to the failed Boxer bid to run commercial DTT here.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Freeview HD (DVB-T2) didn't for practical purposes exist when the roll out started. Which had been delayed by 2 years due to stupidity.

    Nordig is better (open) as D book is "secret" and 100% UK controlled.

    Boxer is a contributing factor, but not the sole reason.

    Nordig DOES include MHEG5 as CI+ now has MHEG5 as mandatory. MHP is practically dead outside Italy. It was original RTE choice in 1999+ etc.

    We absolutely shouldn't be using D Book.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,747 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    watty wrote: »
    Boxer is a contributing factor, but not the sole reason.

    What were the other reasons?

    We have the Nordig standard because the winning commercial bidder Boxer Ireland's main shareholder Teracom Sweden develop and use the standard on its DTT networks in Sweden and Denmark, they also sit on the Nordig Board.

    Boxer Ireland was to be the "digital champion" here to promote and develop digital terrestrial television including the STB standard to be used with the existing analogue broadcasters providing their channels using the same STB standard.

    RTÉ published their STB standard based on Boxer Ireland's (Teracom) established specification (minus the pay TV element) in Dec 2008. Boxer withdrew several months later but RTÉ continued with the Nordig spec for its FTA receiver.

    RTÉ's own bid for the commercial DTT contracts was based on the D Book standard.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    It was fantasy that Boxer would ever do anything. Companies bid and win licences often as part of corporate beautification with no intent to ever roll anything out.

    The RTE bid wasn't real either. So the D book proposal was only a fantasy. There was never any prospect of a commercial roll out. Unless someone with more money and ego than sense. I said that in 2006.

    Who else in Europe uses D Book? It's a proprietary UK only standard. If NZ has adopted it they are ill advised. The RTENL / 2RN folk thought Nordig was best standards option for a small country. DVB + MPEG4 on its own is too woolly (France). Even so France didn't have the horrendous product dumping of SD only DVB kit we suffered because they enacted legislation.

    The problem wasn't RTE or RTENL (2RN) but BCI, BAI, Comreg, Government doing nothing. For Government the "Digital Dividend" is the once off Cash from selling Mobile licences. They put a pittance into publicity, delayed the DSO & ASO by two years and refused to protect consumer.

    We had this discussion before. On the proposed time scale (before Government delays) and on actual roll out (started in 2007 though spec not published till Feb 2008) the DVB-T2 hadn't completed trials. It was unproven beta technology. In contrast I was testing MPEG4 TRANSMISSION on DVB-T in 2006 using off the shelf gear in a PC! The BT so called trials which was purely political to promote a commercial licence were not a technology trial ( 2006 - 2008).

    The R&D dept I was in was looking at Pay TV on 10.1GHz (co-channel to 10.2GHz Wireless Broadband) and MMDS 12GHz bands (the 10GHz originally discussed as early as 2005 as IPTV, but IPTV wasn't practical, too much bandwidth). We even briefly considered the UHF licence. But the revenue wouldn't have covered costs even if content all free to source. The innovation was to have no EPG or keys via broadcast, but via broadband and Conditional Access integrated via DOCSIS Broadband validation so no cards to share, because no CAM. Also no call centre, all interactive package changes via the broadband. So the TV would be tied to one particular Broadband supplier.

    I expect UPC will do this [no cards or CAM] eventually when MMDS is gone.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,747 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    watty wrote: »
    The RTENL / 2RN folk thought Nordig was best standards option for a small country. DVB + MPEG4 on its own is too woolly (France).

    Can you cite a reference for this?

    So it was just coincidence that they publised the same STB standard 6 months after Teracoms's Boxer was chosen as winning bidder for the commercial DTT licences eventhough the were the only bidders that were going to use this spec?

    Regarding France and most of the rest of Europe, their DTT spec is based on the E-Book standard with additional local requirements.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    The Cush wrote: »
    Can you cite a reference for this?
    Um ... I didn't have recording equipment running ... It was a senior person.
    The Cush wrote: »
    So it was just coincidence that they publised the same STB standard 6 months after Teracoms's Boxer was chosen as winning bidder for the commercial DTT licences eventhough the were the only bidders that were going to use this spec?

    No idea. Probably not. If boxer had not been involved would they have gone with D-Book or E-Book? I don't know and I doubt anyone outside of RTE/RTE NL would have been consulted.

    Possibly they decided it was a good idea after it was nearly "foisted" on them?

    It's easier to understand the Kremlin at times than RTE, they keep their own staff in the dark. The actual engineers I knew (two) working in Mid West knew less about what was happening with DTT & Sat that some of us here did, before it happened! They don't get told the "master plan" generally, just their own current tasks. Even if those it's in their contract they can be summarily dismissed if they communicate to a third party, so in the past I have been told stuff I couldn't post or pass on. Which was embarrassing.

    For a PSB / Semi state body the lack of Openness, accountability Consultation etc is appalling.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,747 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    So back to where we started, we have a single approved PVR on the market from an importer/distibutor and not a very good one at that. No major manufacturer or PVR supplier to the other Nordig countries see it worth their while to supply an MHEG-5 version to the small Irish market.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    The Irish Trade is dominated by UK multiples and Middle Men importing from UK.

    Walker are just the Irish buyout of Mitsubishi Ireland Distribution badging mostly (all?) Vestel gear.

    The problem goes far beyond lack of PVRs.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭Mr Cumulonimbus


    watty wrote: »
    The Irish Trade is dominated by UK multiples and Middle Men importing from UK.

    Maybe thats one of reasons then as to why The Cush's suggestion that we should have gone with the UK's D Book standard is correct. The constant reply to people's complaints in this forum that your "digital TV or PVR doesn't work is because it has an MPEG2 tuner" would never have been seen here.

    In stead of being a negative, it could have been a positive. It would have allowed for a rapid saturation of the Irish market with readily available equipment, including a decent range of PVR's. If you don't have access to satellite & cable and you want an "official Saorview" PVR to record, the current situation is an absolute joke.

    Adopting the current technical standard has hindered the TV viewer if they want to record Saorview programming via a decent quality DTT only PVR.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    No it wouldn't because the DVB-T2 MPEG4 HD gear didn't exist. Going with the MPEG2 version would have been stupidity.

    What we need is Consumer Protection done properly and regulatory and market reform. We are not a UK province.

    The non-HD UK freeview was obsolete.

    We have copied UK DAB which is stupidity, and not even done it properly. It should be turned off forthwith and all radios with DAB only banned or at least have a warning. Sets without LW should have a warning, most of those are for North America and and have wrong equalisation for VHF-FM.

    Also what use give the awkwardness of programming is only 10 FM and 10 DAB presets?

    What use are the Lidl and other radios with only up/down seek that lose all the presets every time the batteries are jiggled?

    Consumer Electronics is a mess in all of EU and especially Ireland. The solution isn't to let the UK Government or Agencies (D-Book and DAB) set the agenda or UK Wholesale and Retail control the market.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭Mr Cumulonimbus


    watty wrote: »
    No it wouldn't because the DVB-T2 MPEG4 HD gear didn't exist. Going with the MPEG2 version would have been stupidity.

    Don’t agree. We shared PAL-I with the UK pre-DSO, fully so in regions of the country where transmitters provided an all UHF signal. (Clermont Carn, Three Rock & most relays). This allowed the trade to source a wide variety of equipment for Ireland without having to worry too much about different standards etc. Because of this, we should have continued this practice and adopted D-Book.
    We are not a UK province.

    Yes, but Mr & Mrs Average TV Viewer couldn’t care less with regards to have having a TV signal and crucially a wide variety of decently priced equipment to view with. As I’ve said already, it’s a joke we only have 1 officially Saorview approved PVR, because of us adapting DVB-T/MPEG4.
    The non-HD UK freeview was obsolete.

    Not in terms of effiency since we have only 8 channels on 2 muxes.
    The solution isn't to let the UK Government or Agencies (D-Book and DAB) set the agenda or UK Wholesale and Retail control the market.

    For pragmatic reasons, it happened when the UK & Ireland operated PAL-I. We should have continued the practice. Too much emphasis was put on the perceived advantage of one technical standard over another when planning DTT here and not enough on ease of delivery to the consumer, as well as not taking heed of how the existing Irish TV market operated in the era of PAL-I.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    There WAS NO HD on standard Freeview.
    Of course that would have be totally stupid to adopt.

    All of Europe except France was using 625, Roll out started in 1948! The UK out of EGO and Politics relaunched the 1935 405 TV in 1946 even though only Crystal Palace transmitter and maybe only 300 viewers.

    As a stupid sop to people that had bought 405 TVs before 1962 for UK television (31st Dec 1961) we had 405 on 3 transmitters. But many parts of Ireland never ever had 405, but only ever 625.

    The UK had to start changing to 625 in 1962. After Irish 625 launched. It was only a minor variation of the European system demonstrated in 1946 and rolling out since 1948.

    SD pre-DVB-T2 D-Book simply was absolutely not an option in 2008. It was a year too early at least for MPEG4 HD DVB-T2.

    The original Freeview non-DVB-T2 D book had NO HD or MPEG4 support. We would be running SIX mux today if we had gone with ordinary Freeview in 2007-2008 when rollout started. Even though "a" DVB-T2 HD spec existed in 2008 there was no domestic equipment for it for at least another 2 years!

    The Problem is that the Government decided we had to meet the 2012 ASO date. So roll out HAD to start before DVB-T2 products in the marketplace, but it was 10 years too late to adopt the non-HD Freeview.

    If like some other countries we had delayed ASO to 2014 (this year) we could have adopted HD DVB-T2.

    Only the Freeview HD version D book was remotely viable choice. Today in UK the ordinary Freeview boxes and TVs are obsolete. They have been since the end of 2012.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭Mr Cumulonimbus


    watty wrote: »
    The Problem is that the Government decided we had to meet the 2012 ASO date. So roll out HAD to start before DVB-T2 products in the marketplace, but it was 10 years too late to adopt the non-HD Freeview.

    Looking back on it now it all reads like a series of unfortunate events doesn't it? Procrastination on the whole thing by the government seems to be key here, and then rushing to do something for the sake of doing it.
    If like some other countries we had delayed ASO to 2014 (this year) we could have adopted HD DVB-T2.

    Yes, would have been ideal. Could this be done say in 2024 since the Saorview spec now says equipment should be T2?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,747 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    watty wrote: »
    SD pre-DVB-T2 D-Book simply was absolutely not an option in 2008. It was a year too early at least for MPEG4 HD DVB-T2.[/B]

    I assume you mean "HD pre-DVB-T2 D-Book simply was absolutely not an option in 2008".

    It was an option, the NZ receiver standard was finalised in late 2007 which was D-Book/DVB-T/MPEG-4. They started SD and HD terrestrial transmission in April 2008. New Zealand TVOne, TV2 and TV3, launched in HD. TVOne and TV2 broadcast in the 1280x720p format, while TV3 broadcast in the 1920x1080i format.

    This was before we announced our DTT standard and about the time the commercial DTT contracts went out to tender. Our network didn't go live until the end of Oct 2010 with RTÉ2 switching to 1080i in early Dec that year. DVB-T2 or Nordig wasn't required.

    My early 2008 Sony TV (purchased April 2008) was both Freeview approved and had MPEG-4 decoding and still working today with Saorview.

    Once Boxer withdrew RTÉ should've stalled on the receiver spec until the commercial DTT process had completed but I guess that would mean a lot of work wasted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Then it wasn't actually D-Book.
    Because the UK regulator specifically forbade MPEG4 on DVB-T and there was no HD in D-Book even if Mpeg4 was in it in 2007.

    But since the D book is and always was secret and proprietary we can't be sure and any Country outside of UK adopting it is very very unwise to point of stupidly.

    It would be like Microsoft taking a licence to sell OS X or Apple deciding to licence Windows 8.1 for iPhone.

    Our roll out decisions may have been made in late 2006 or early, I don't know. Certainly it started in late 2007 before the spec was published in Feb 2008.

    It was unfortunately the wrong time to go with either UK spec, even if such an idea is sensible, which it isn't.

    We might have had Digital in 2000, but that didn't happen because of Government stupidity. It would have been MPEG2, DVB-T, MHP and DVB-RCT (for interactive, NEVER enough capacity for Internet). I know someone who was there in RTENL when they ran trials. I guess we are fortunate as it turns out MHP was a bad idea (though still in use) and I think NO-ONE has used DVB-RCT. The technical expertise though has been partly recycled in WiMax (now largely abandoned) and LTE. No-one sells DVB-RCT gear now.

    So we delayed. The whole commercial fixation dragged on nearly two years longer than it should have. The Government was anxious to raise revenue selling licence for 790MHz to 862MHz spectrum so then a last minute panic to make ASO happen.

    The ONLY reason whatsoever for 2012 ASO and Digital Terrestrial in Ireland is the revenue to Comreg & Treasury from the Mobile operators "selling off" part of TV spectrum. Comreg is committed to selling it ALL! But first another chunk. So no 100fps TV, no 2K or 4K TV, no 3D TV EVER on Terrestrial. People having to change aerials and then eventually no terrestrial at all.

    It's a bleak prospect caused by having the Civil Service and a "Captured Regulator" in control instead of the People and the Government.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,747 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    watty wrote: »
    Then it wasn't actually D-Book.
    Because the UK regulator specifically forbade MPEG4 on DVB-T and there was no HD in D-Book even if Mpeg4 was in it in 2007.

    It was D-Book with added New Zealand requirements, I posted the spec earlier.

    Luckily for New Zealand the UK regulator had no say in how they implemented their receiver spec.
    The profile is based upon open standards predominantly Digital Video Broadcasting (DVB) standards and the UK DTG D-Book or includes open implementations which are in use on the UK DTT platform. Changes and additions have been made in this document to suit the required digital terrestrial platform in New Zealand. This most notably, includes requirements for H.264 AVC decoding (not MPEG-2) and high definition video resolution output.

    In 2007 DTG Testing was awarded the test and conformance contract for Freeview New Zealand - http://www.dtg.org.uk/publications/books/dtg_infopack_2012.pdf


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    It was D-Book with added New Zealand requirements, I posted the spec earlier.
    So thus it wasn't actually D-Book. So no assurance equipment with Freeview Tick for UK market would work.

    I do understand your point and I know I'm being pedantic.

    It's annoying there is no decent PVR for Irish market and that some Freeview+ HD PVRs may actually work "better" than the Walker in some respects.

    So forgetting about "might have beens*" how do we move forward?



    (* It seems Digital TV is WORSE than Analogue for different standards, even an accidental purchase of PAL B/G set could be quickly fixed to work on PAL-I by swapping a €1 filter for a 6.0MHz part, or a UK UHF only TV have a cheap Labgear VHF to UHF converter added. Of course when I came to Midwest in 1983 my TV and VHS didn't receive anything. Fortunately a converter was a stock item in many Limerick TV shops then)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 702 ✭✭✭JonathonS


    The Cush wrote: »
    My early 2008 Sony TV (purchased April 2008) was both Freeview approved and had MPEG-4 decoding and still working today with Saorview.

    That was because Sony were selling these sets in France, where sales of non-future-proofed sets had been banned. But the Sony office in Ireland refused at the time to confirm that they would work with Irish DTT, partly because the spec was not finalised, and partly because they could not have supplied the demand if the word got out.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,417 ✭✭✭✭watty


    I think the demand and maybe they had not yet tested to the Irish / Nordig spec. The Spec was out Feb 2008.
    MPEG4 & HD isn't enough without further lab test to back up with claims.


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