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Saorview to change Mt Leinster channel

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    #122
    marclt
    Registered Users Posts: 844 ✭✭✭marclt


    The Cush wrote: »
    Didn't see any mention of it in RTÉNL's list of Saorview frequencies but if you look at the Saorview coverage checker there are a lot of red areas around Mt leinster indicating an increase in coverage at ASO.

    3128baf.jpg

    The red areas between Wexford and Courtown may be due to the affect of co-channel interference. Preseli has always been very strong around Blackwater and Curracloe where Mt. Leinster is slightly sheilded.

    A power increase is expected when Ch. 23 kicks off. I assume there will be some high power testing ebfore Ch. 23 is switched on? Or maybe the Mux 2 tests on Ch. 39 recently were on high power?


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    #123
    tlaavtech
    Registered Users Posts: 278 ✭✭tlaavtech


    marclt wrote: »
    The red areas between Wexford and Courtown may be due to the affect of co-channel interference. Preseli has always been very strong around Blackwater and Curracloe where Mt. Leinster is slightly sheilded.

    A power increase is expected when Ch. 23 kicks off. I assume there will be some high power testing ebfore Ch. 23 is switched on? Or maybe the Mux 2 tests on Ch. 39 recently were on high power?

    There can't be any testing on Ch.23 at the moment because it is one of the current analogue channels (TV3 or TG4 - can't remember which). It is being recycled(!) on the 24th Oct.


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    #124
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,484 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    formerly scottish paddy wrote: »
    Remember new higher mast built at Mt. Leinster, will that be carrying new DTT aerial for ch23 ?

    Would the new mast not be carrying the existing Ch. 45?


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    #125
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,484 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    tlaavtech wrote: »
    There can't be any testing on Ch.23 at the moment because it is one of the current analogue channels (TV3 or TG4 - can't remember which). It is being recycled(!) on the 24th Oct.

    TG4.

    Mt Leinster was off-air between midnight and 7 in the morning back in late Aug - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=80364855#post80364855, maybe testing DTT Ch.23


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    #126
    marclt
    Registered Users Posts: 844 ✭✭✭marclt


    tlaavtech wrote: »
    There can't be any testing on Ch.23 at the moment because it is one of the current analogue channels (TV3 or TG4 - can't remember which). It is being recycled(!) on the 24th Oct.

    Similar tests were carried out at UK sites prior to DSO there.


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    #127
    formerly scottish paddy
    Registered Users Posts: 545 ✭✭✭formerly scottish paddy


    The Cush wrote: »
    Would the new mast not be carrying the existing Ch. 45?
    Why should a new mast carry an "old" temporary channel??


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    #128
    elsie1b
    Registered Users Posts: 193 ✭✭elsie1b


    marclt wrote: »
    Similar tests were carried out at UK sites prior to DSO there.
    In Ulster and U.K they close the bbc2 analogue channel about 2 weeks before dso.
    I'm sure either tg4 or tv3 wouldn't be too bothered ?


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    #129
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,363 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    elsie1b wrote: »
    In Ulster and U.K they close the bbc2 analogue channel about 2 weeks before dso.
    I'm sure either tg4 or tv3 wouldn't be too bothered ?

    They need to do that because their DVB service is new and not available before so they must do that to give installers some chance of installing aerials. We do not need to do so here as we have been broadcasting DVB for 18 months.


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    #130
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,484 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    formerly scottish paddy wrote: »
    Why should a new mast carry an "old" temporary channel??

    Why not, is the old mast still in place and are they still using it?


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    #131
    Antenna
    Registered Users Posts: 2,305 ✭✭✭Antenna


    The Cush wrote: »
    is the old mast still in place and are they still using it?

    I was told it is still in use for analogue RTE 1 and 2 (Band III) and to be dismantled in early 2013.


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    #132
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,484 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Antenna wrote: »
    I was told it is still in use for RTE 1 and 2 TV (Band III) and to be dismantled in early 2013.

    Do you know if the UHF services analogue TV3/TG4 and Mux 1 (Ch 45) are still there or have moved to the new mast?


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    #133
    Antenna
    Registered Users Posts: 2,305 ✭✭✭Antenna


    The Cush wrote: »
    Do you know if the UHF services analogue TV3/TG4 and Mux 1 (Ch 45) are still there or have moved to the new mast?

    I understood that all UHF (analogue and digital) moved to the new mast


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    #134
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,484 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    elsie1b wrote: »
    Why broadcast on both 23 and 45 for 3 weeks ?

    Probably to allow people who may have installed a Group B aerial for Saorview-only time to replace it with a Group A. The simulcast period for Clermont Carn is shorter because it'll be a simple channel change within the same aerial group.


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    #135
    elsie1b
    Registered Users Posts: 193 ✭✭elsie1b


    The Cush wrote: »
    Probably to allow people who may have installed a Group B aerial for Saorview-only time to replace it with a Group A. The simulcast period for Clermont Carn is shorter because it'll be a simple channel change within the same aerial group.
    What were they thinking of to use 45 in the first place ?
    I'm sure their motives were only the best !


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    #136
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,484 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    elsie1b wrote: »
    What were they thinking of to use 45 in the first place ?
    I'm sure their motives were only the best !

    Don't know the reason but it goes back to the original DTT frequency planning for Mt Leinster in the late 1990s.


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    #137
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    The Cush wrote: »
    Why not, is the old mast still in place and are they still using it?

    Yes, but they will be decommissioning the existing 120m mast.

    TCN started the install in 2011 and continued into July this year (you might remember that Saorview was off at various stages in mid July 12).

    There is a good video on youtube of the start of the install last year.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1olpJw44y6k


    Mt Leinster January 12

    222026.jpg


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    #138
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,484 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Mayo Exile wrote: »
    Link to document at RTENL:

    http://www.rtenl.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/SAORVIEW-at-ASO-Rev-1.0.pdf

    SAORVIEW at Analogue Switch Off (ASO) v1.3 - http://www.rtenl.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/SAORVIEW-at-ASO-Rev-1.3.pdf

    Clermont Carn Timetable
    ASO: 24th Oct 2012 10:00
    Ch 53 switch-on: 24th Oct 2012 13:00
    Ch 52 switch-off: 7th Nov 2012 13:00

    Mt Leinster Timetable
    ASO: 24th Oct 2012 10:00
    Ch 23 switch-on: 26th Oct 2012 13:00
    Ch 45 switch-off: 14th Nov 2012 13:00
    CLERMONT CARN


    Between the 24th of October and the 7th November SAORVIEW will be transmitted on two separate channels (52 & 53) from Clermont Carn.
    • The SAORVIEW service will continue to be transmitted, on a temporary basis for 14 days, on its current temporary channel (53).
    • From 13:00 on the 24th of October the SAORVIEW service will start to transmit on its new, and final, channel (52).
    On the 7th of November the SAORVIEW service will cease transmitting on temporary channel 53.

    Migrating the SAORVIEW service to channel 52 (which has significantly fewer power restrictions) will vastly increase coverage of SAORVIEW into Northern Ireland as well as strengthening SAORVIEW coverage in counties Louth, Meath and into north county Dublin.


    MOUNT LEINSTER

    Between the 24th of October and the 14th of November SAORVIEW will be transmitted on two separate channels (23 & 45) from Mount Leinster.
    • The SAORVIEW service will continue to be transmitted, on a temporary basis for 21 days, on its current temporary channel (45).
    • From 13:00 on the 26th October the SAORVIEW service will start to transmit on its new, and final, channel (23).
    On the 14th November the SAORVIEW service will cease transmitting on channel 45.

    This change will strengthen the SAORVIEW coverage in counties Wicklow, Wexford, Kildare, Carlow, Kilkenny, Waterford, Laois, Offaly and Tipperary. In addition to strengthening SAORVIEW it will also decouple Mt. Leinster from a transmission site in Wales and by removing the associated signal interference issue allow homes in Wicklow and Wexford to fully avail of overspill Freeview services from Wales.


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    #139
    marclt
    Registered Users Posts: 844 ✭✭✭marclt


    Not entirely sure why it'll take two days to power up Ch.23 at Mt. L - but st least we have a timeline now!


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    #140
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    marclt wrote: »
    Not entirely sure why it'll take two days to power up Ch.23 at Mt. L - but st least we have a timeline now!

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80854705&postcount=99

    :)


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    #141
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,484 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    The Cush wrote: »
    SAORVIEW at Analogue Switch Off (ASO) v1.3 - http://www.rtenl.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/SAORVIEW-at-ASO-Rev-1.3.pdf

    Clermont Carn Timetable
    ASO: 24th Oct 2012 10:00
    Ch 53 switch-on: 24th Oct 2012 13:00
    Ch 52 switch-off: 7th Nov 2012 13:00

    Mt Leinster Timetable
    ASO: 24th Oct 2012 10:00
    Ch 23 switch-on: 26th Oct 2012 13:00
    Ch 45 switch-off: 14th Nov 2012 13:00

    Mt Leinster Ch 45 will shutdown one week earlier than first announced. It will now shutdown the same day as Clermont Carn, Nov 7th.

    http://createsend.com/t/r-966963D1B43E60A7
    CLERMONT CARN
    Serving areas in Louth, Meath, North Dublin, Cavan, Monaghan, and Down, Armagh, Antrim.

    Customers will need to re-scan their TV or box between Wednesday 24th October and Wednesday 7th November.

    MOUNT LEINSTER
    Serving areas in Wexford, Carlow, Kilkenny, Laois, Offaly, South Wicklow, Tipperary, Waterford.

    Customers will need to re-scan their TV or box between Friday 26th October and Wednesday 7th November


    Benefits to the Service

    There are significant benefits to these changes.

    At Clermont Carn, changing SAORVIEW to channel 52 (which has significantly fewer power restrictions) will vastly increase coverage of SAORVIEW into N. Ireland as well as strengthening SAORVIEW coverage in counties Louth, Meath and north county Dublin.

    At Mt. Leinster, this change will strengthen the SAORVIEW coverage in counties Wicklow, Wexford, Kildare, Carlow, Kilkenny, Waterford, Laois, Offaly and Tipperary. In addition it will also de-couple Mt. Leinster from a transmission site in Wales, thus allowing homes in Wicklow and Wexford to fully avail of overspill Freeview services.

    Why the 2 day delay switching on Mt Leinster Ch23, Saorview on twitter
    Ruth O'Dwyer‏@damersruth
    @SAORVIEW why is there a two day delay in starting broadcasting on channel 23 from mt Leinster mast? Analogue off 24th, channel 23 on 26th?!

    Tommy & PJ‏@SAORVIEW
    @damersruth To provide a window for the engineering teams to carry out some essential works on the broadcast equipment.
    5:50 AM - 16 Oct 12

    http://twitter.com/SAORVIEW/status/258188195064340480

    Public information campaign will start after ASO
    Public Information Campaign

    RTÉNL will be running an information campaign for viewers in the affected areas. Public messaging for now is focusing on Analogue Switch Off only, and not the re-scan, to avoid confusion. The re-scan publicity will build after the 24th.

    This will include continuity announcements on TV and radio from 5 days in advance of the deadline. There will be local radio and press announcements and information on Aertel and our website.

    We will increase staff numbers in our call centre. We have also alerted all manufacturers of SAORVIEW Approved products and they will also have staff available to take customer service calls


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    #142
    eirman
    Registered Users Posts: 987 ✭✭✭eirman


    What happens when I scan for Clermont saorview signals when it is broadcasting in duplicate on 52 & 53 ..... will I get two of everything or will it only lock on to the strongest signal?


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    #143
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,484 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    eirman wrote: »
    What happens when I scan for Clermont saorview signals when it is broadcasting in duplicate on 52 & 53 ..... will I get two of everything or will it only lock on to the strongest signal?

    It'll store the channels from the strongest frequency and either ignore the others or store them in the 800s, as one of my Sony TVs does when it was receiving strong signals fromboth Mullaghanish and Woodcock Hill.


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    #144
    lawhec
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,757 ✭✭✭lawhec


    I don't think there is capability in the current Saorview network to regionalise certain features, is there? I think the same feed is sent to all main transmitters. If there was a possibility, pop-up MHEG captions on the affected services would at least target viewers in the affected areas reminding them to retune.

    Eirman - if there are problems the best idea would be to delete all Saorview services and perform a manual scan on channel E52.


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    #145
    The Cush
    Registered Users Posts: 15,484 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    The Cush wrote: »
    SAORVIEW at Analogue Switch Off (ASO) v1.3 - http://www.rtenl.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/SAORVIEW-at-ASO-Rev-1.3.pdf

    Mt Leinster Timetable
    ASO: 24th Oct 2012 10:00
    Ch 23 switch-on: 26th Oct 2012 13:00
    Ch 45 switch-off: 14th Nov 2012 13:00
    The Cush wrote: »
    Mt Leinster Ch 45 will shutdown one week earlier than first announced. It will now shutdown the same day as Clermont Carn, Nov 7th.

    http://createsend.com/t/r-966963D1B43E60A7

    Revised SAORVIEW at Analogue Switch Off (ASO) v1.4 document from RTÉNL - http://www.rtenl.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/SAORVIEW-at-ASO-Rev-1.4.pdf

    What's changed
    • Mt Leinster Ch45 will now shutdown one week earlier on Nov 7th
    • Mt Leinster Ch23 will start on Fri 26th but at the later time of 1800hrs

    Revised Mt Leinster Timetable
    ASO: 24th Oct 2012 10:00
    Ch 23 switch-on: 26th Oct 2012 18:00
    Ch 45 switch-off: 7th Nov 2012 13:00

    Clermont Carn Timetable
    ASO: 24th Oct 2012 10:00
    Ch 52 switch-on: 24th Oct 2012 13:00
    Ch 53 switch-off: 7th Nov 2012 13:00


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    #146
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    lawhec wrote: »
    I don't think there is capability in the current Saorview network to regionalise certain features, is there? I think the same feed is sent to all main transmitters. If there was a possibility, pop-up MHEG captions on the affected services would at least target viewers in the affected areas reminding them to retune.

    Eirman - if there are problems the best idea would be to delete all Saorview services and perform a manual scan on channel E52.

    Well in the case of the feed for the NIMM it will be evident.

    Certain programming will be blocked as far I am aware for rights reasons.
    eirman wrote: »
    What happens when I scan for Clermont saorview signals when it is broadcasting in duplicate on 52 & 53 ..... will I get two of everything or will it only lock on to the strongest signal?

    The same as would happen if you had 2 Saorview TXs on different mux frequencies in one geographical area. You would have two sets of the stations.


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    #147
    Antenna
    Registered Users Posts: 2,305 ✭✭✭Antenna


    The Cush wrote: »
    Revised Mt Leinster Timetable
    ASO: 24th Oct 2012 10:00
    Ch 23 switch-on: 26th Oct 2012 18:00
    Ch 45 switch-off: 7th Nov 2012 13:00

    How daft it is that they not allowing RTE1 and RTE2 analogue to stay on air a couple of days longer from there. There is no technical reason why not, these are on VHF, so completely unrelated to Saorview from Mt Leinster moving within UHF to the current TG4 analogue UHF channel (23). The VHF channels are going to be left idle anyway, its not as if some other service is ready to move on to them anytime soon!

    So there is to be a completely needless 2 day gap between a complete ASO (not just TG4) and Saorview increasing coverage from Mt Leinster, as well as moving to a channel which is compatible with all existing UHF aerials (group-A) for analogue reception. So a sizeable number of viewers (probably greater than the total number of listeners of RTE's longwave radio service!) in the south-east will have zero Irish TV for 2 days !


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    #148
    marclt
    Registered Users Posts: 844 ✭✭✭marclt


    Clearly the essential maintenance is going to take longer than RTE first thought.

    Given that in the south east, there are restrictions on Ch 45, there is a real risk that some viewers will have poor reception over what is an increasing length of time.

    Notably, there are no ongoing engineering works taking place at any of the sites, if the lack of updates on Aertel are anything to go by.

    Lets hope we don't have a spell of high pressure to complicate things next week!




    Antenna wrote: »

    How daft it is that they not allowing RTE1 and RTE2 analogue to stay on air a couple of days longer from there. There is no technical reason why not, these are on VHF, so completely unrelated to Saorview from Mt Leinster moving within UHF to the current TG4 analogue UHF channel (23). The VHF channels are going to be left idle anyway, its not as if some other service is ready to move on to them anytime soon!

    So there is to be a completely needless 2 day gap between a complete ASO (not just TG4) and Saorview increasing coverage from Mt Leinster, as well as moving to a channel which is compatible with all existing UHF aerials (group-A) for analogue reception. So a sizeable number of viewers (probably greater than the total number of listeners of RTE's longwave radio service!) in the south-east will have zero Irish TV for 2 days !
    O


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    #149
    Antenna
    Registered Users Posts: 2,305 ✭✭✭Antenna


    Someone recalled that years ago, when the local radio station in Wexford (using RTE Mt Leinster) changed frequency 99.2 -> 95.6 at Mt Leinster that they simulcast on both the old and new frequencies for several months, even though no-one had to buy a new radio, or change an aerial, just retune/or reset a preset.

    Now there is to be a needless 2-day gap between a complete analogue shutdown (not just TG4 or TV3 +TG4) and increased Saorview coverage that is available on existing Group-A aerials for uhf analogue.

    A skeleton analogue sevice of at least RTE1, if not RTE1 and 2, should be maintained during this time of Saorview channel moves and switch-off of the ch45, there is no good reason why not. Many elderly people will need help with retuning, if RTE1 analogue was still on air they at least have that to tide them over.

    What if a major news story breaks in the country whilst many people in the southeast are completely without Irish TV for at least 2 days?


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    #150
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    One thing is certain, it will be like Christmas for TV installers in the South East replacing the wrong group aerials already installed.


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    #151
    St Senan
    Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 3,584 Mod ✭✭✭✭St Senan


    STB wrote: »
    One thing is certain, it will be like Christmas for TV installers in the South East replacing the wrong group aerials already installed.

    STB. The only problem then is that people will have been stung with all the self SAORVIEW INSTALLERS throwing up cheap crap and probably wont want to pay much to get it sorted out they also probably will be tarnishing us all as cowboys and conmen.


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