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Immaculate deception: 'I don't regret tricking my boyfriend into having kids'

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    #122
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Was meant to be a light-hearted comment, I obviously misread the room.

    Sorry -- tis late! I misread you. Apologies.


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    #123
    theg81der
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,644 ✭✭✭theg81der


    Oh and another interesting point -

    While I was waiting for my hubby to make a decision about whether he wanted a child or not I did discuss this with other women and all of them said would you not just "you know accidents do hapen lol" or said out right to trick him. Seemed to be an assumption that this was a normal part of life and men sometimes don`t know whats good for them or something - I was horrified and told all of them I didn`t want a child with someone who ddn`t want one.


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    #124
    MetalDog
    Registered Users Posts: 904 ✭✭✭MetalDog


    millymash12 wrote: »
    Shocking yahoo article


    http://uk.lifestyle.yahoo.com/immaculate-deception-i-don-t-regret-tricking-my-boyfriend-into-having-kids.html


    Your thoughts?

    My thoughts? Selfish bitch. People like her are good advertisments for getting a vasectomy. Thankfully only a small minority of headcases think like her, but the sooner they bring out the "male pill" the better.


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    #125
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    What selfish thing to do....no-one should be forced into such a life changing scenario without knowing or without being given the choice. Ok he wanted the baby this time, but if he hadn't what then?

    But with the attitude shown to Fathers, and men in general these days, I suppose this article shouldn't be all that surprising. It's why I am slow to read any women's mags or articles re men by women anymore.

    I think sometimes women forget that men are thinking, feeling human beings with wants and needs too. They are not just there for our entertainment and to help us procreate.

    Funny thing is if a man forced a woman to have a child he'd be treated like a criminal....but when a woman does it...well...a lot of the comments seem to be making somewhat light of it.


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    #126
    ash23
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭ash23


    Millicent wrote: »
    I know a few Turkish tummy babies. I have also spoken with quite a few people who were unaware and not advised by their doctor that taking a certain medication could totally prevent their pill from working.

    Both partners need to take responsibility for contraception so a condom is always a good idea, if even to protect against STDs.

    I was at the doctor this week and given an antibiotic. She asked at the start of the consultation if I was on medication and I told her the pill.
    Handed me the prescription and then I asked if it would interfere with the pill. I was told "probably not but if you really don't want to take any chances, use extra precautions". It was a 3 day antibiotic. I asked how long I needed to use extra precautions and was told 7 days.
    I had to go back to a locum as the antibiotics didn't work. Again I was asked if I was taking medication and said the pill. Prescription was written for another antibiotic and not a mention was made of it interfering with the pill or taking extra precautions. But when I read the leaflet in the box it said it might.

    So, had I not been caught rotten before (with a pregnancy at 19) I wouldn't have pushed for that information, would have accepted the script and taken the tablets and not used additional precautions. Total length of both antibiotics is almost 2 weeks.
    2 weeks of possible pregnancy.


    I detest the idea of anyone being tricked into a pregnancy. I got pregnant because I missed a pill and insisted on a condom and my "partner" declined to tell me the condom had split and chanced his arm. he fecked off and I've raised the child on my own.

    But I hate the attitude that every unplanned pregnancy is the woman trying to trap the man.
    My childs father accused me of the same. He said "but I thought you were on the pill". I said I was but anytime I'd been sick or missed one I made him wear a condom. he said "ooooh, it must have been that time the condom split. Well, I don't want it".
    No mention of him trying to trap me into having his baby. Because he wasn't. he was just being careless. But at a cost to me and my life and my future.


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    #127
    Scanlas The 2nd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    Millicent wrote: »
    Well, carry on taking responsibility for your own contraception and you should have nothing to worry about then.

    That sounds like "victim blaming" to some people.


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    #128
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    That sounds like "victim blaming" to some people.

    No it doesn't.


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    #129
    Scanlas The 2nd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    Millicent wrote: »
    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    That sounds like "victim blaming" to some people.

    No it doesn't.

    I was under the assumption that giving advice to potential victims to avoid harm was "victim blaming". The logic being we should focus our effor preventing the perpetrator commuting the crime rather than the victim.


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    #130
    28064212
    Registered Users Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    I was under the assumption that giving advice to potential victims to avoid harm was "victim blaming". The logic being we should focus our effor preventing the perpetrator commuting the crime rather than the victim.
    Contraception is a two-way responsibility. You're not a victim if you shift all the responsibility to someone who, it turns out, is irresponsible. If the boyfriend in the OP didn't want kids, he should have worn a condom everytime they had sex, or gotten a vasectomy.

    You're only a victim if the other person interferes with your contraception (e.g. pin holes in condoms, "sperm-jacking")

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    #131
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,196 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Hmm, I get the feeling that the groupthink being firmly on one side of the fence (correctly in my view mind) is preventing the opposite opinion being voiced. I think this attitude does exist out there as the clock ticks to one extent or the other. That said, this is part of a complex general issue - modern western society has delivered lower birth rates per head of population and older average ages for marriage, etc than at any time in human history. Scenarios where a woman might be desperate to have a child but can't get a stable relationship in place to do it weren't anywhere near as prevelant in times past. This obviously isn't the answer mind (there are chemical answers out there), but it is a valid societal issue imo.


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    #132
    ash23
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭ash23


    In the case described I think that the husband was very wrong to ignore the massive issue of her wanting a child and him not and to refuse to communicate with her about it. They had been together for a really long time, she was upfront about what she wanted and he was imo, pr!cking her around, knowing she was getting older and him time to conceive was getting more limited.

    However, what she did was also very wrong. On so many levels.

    I think she should have had the coil removed, told him that contraception was now his concern and waited to see how diligent he was about it. If he was very against conceiving then he would have made sure to use condoms and she would have known where he was at with the idea and should have ended the relationship. If he was lax and lazy about the contraception then he clearly wasn't too concerned and if she got pregnant then he knew the chances he was taking.

    Of course, it should never have to come to that because they should've been able to discuss it like normal people. :rolleyes:


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    #133
    who_me
    Registered Users Posts: 3,669 ✭✭✭who_me


    Boombastic wrote: »
    Are the pill and condoms the only type of contraception available in Ireland?:pac:

    No, there's also football, body odour, and soap operas. Oh, and Catholicism.

    I'm surprised we manage to have any babies in this country. Maybe our devious Irish girlfriends are sneaking babies in from abroad and tricking us!?! I always had a hunch Abdul-Mahmoud might not be mine...


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    #134
    Scanlas The 2nd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    28064212 wrote: »
    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    I was under the assumption that giving advice to potential victims to avoid harm was "victim blaming". The logic being we should focus our effor preventing the perpetrator commuting the crime rather than the victim.
    Contraception is a two-way responsibility. You're not a victim if you shift all the responsibility to someone who, it turns out, is irresponsible. If the boyfriend in the OP didn't want kids, he should have worn a condom everytime they had sex, or gotten a vasectomy.

    You're only a victim if the other person interferes with your contraception (e.g. pin holes in condoms, "sperm-jacking")

    If a woman lies about being on the pill her spouse is being tricked. He is a victim.


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    #135
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    EMF2010 wrote: »
    I really really can NOT see how it might happen. I'm a woman in my thirties and I think that doing this is an utterly selfish and cowardly act. This is a case of forcing your* will upon someone else and deciding that you know what is best for them. The sheer arrogance of that is breathtaking.

    Yes, as a woman in my thirties I'm aware that if I want to have kids I need to do it in the next few years. Given that I am inclined towards having kids I've already looked into how to have a child by myself and you know what - it's not that complicated. Accidents do happen but there is NO excuse for doing something like this deliberately.

    *generic you
    I've just turned thirty, have always wanted kids, and can see how a woman would do this, but I wouldn't. I'd rather break up and go to a sperm bank than force a man to have a child he didn't want.

    I was horrified when, while discussing kids while I was with my ex, a male family member advised me to 'just get pregnant'. Well, I couldn't believe that a member of my family would advise me to do something so underhanded and devious. That said, I think that that's what his missus did in order to keep him around; she got pregnant remarkably early in their relationship.
    IzzyWizzy wrote: »
    Do you understand how the pill works? Missing one pill can be enough to let you ovulate.
    Missing one pill on just the right day, at just the right interval before having sex for the egg to be viable, and not using another form of contraception, coupled with the fact that women who have been on the pill are usually told that it can take from a few weeks up to six months while their fertility returns to normal makes any claims of 'I forgot my pill the day we had sex and I got pregnant' highly suspect to me.

    I've been taking the pill for 13 years, forgotten to take it a few times, had sex, didn't get pregnant. Had a gippy belly after taking it, didn't get pregnant. Vomited, didn't get pregnant. Took it outside of the window of time I was allotted, didn't get pregnant. Getting pregnant can take weeks or months of trying for people who want to get pregnant. If a woman claims to have forgotten to take one pill and gets pregnant then either she's got amazing ovaries, her partner's got the most badass sperm ever, or something dodgy's going on.


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    #136
    28064212
    Registered Users Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭28064212


    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    If a woman lies about being on the pill her spouse is being tricked. He is a victim.
    Does he have a signed contract stating that she is 100% responsible for contraception. Does he check that she takes her contraception at the correct time everyday? Does he check every medicine that she takes to ensure no possible interactions?

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    #137
    who_me
    Registered Users Posts: 3,669 ✭✭✭who_me


    token101 wrote: »
    Surely that can't be true? Sure how would you go about proving your not the father? Taking the child to a doctor out of sight of the mother? Seems a bit ridiculous. Why doesn't the state step in there and just have mandatory, free (or a relatively small cost) DNA tests for people accused.

    A friend of mine involved in an awkward unwanted pregnancy situation checked it up with a solicitor (or at least he claims he did, so feel free to take it with a dollop of salt).

    IIRC, he said if the father requested a DNS test and the mother refused (remembering they might be co-habiting, or even a couple. The baby could have been the result of a one-night stand), that would likely negate the mother's claim.

    I don't know if any of that's true, I'm just passing on nth hand information.


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    #138
    Scanlas The 2nd
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,144 ✭✭✭Scanlas The 2nd


    28064212 wrote: »
    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    If a woman lies about being on the pill her spouse is being tricked. He is a victim.
    Does he have a signed contract stating that she is 100% responsible for contraception. Does he check that she takes her contraception at the correct time everyday? Does he check every medicine that she takes to ensure no possible interactions?

    He's been tricked, he's a victim, simple as.


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    #139
    ash23
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭ash23


    who_me wrote: »
    A friend of mine involved in an awkward unwanted pregnancy situation checked it up with a solicitor (or at least he claims he did, so feel free to take it with a dollop of salt).

    IIRC, he said if the father requested a DNS test and the mother refused (remembering they might be co-habiting, or even a couple. The baby could have been the result of a one-night stand), that would likely negate the mother's claim.

    I don't know if any of that's true, I'm just passing on nth hand information.

    As far as I know it goes like this.

    If the mother wants maintenance then the suspected father can request a DNA test. I don't think he has to pay maintenance in the meantime but the maintenance would be back dated if the child is his.
    If the mother wants nothing from the father and denies the child is his, the man who thinks he is the father cannot force her to have a DNA test done.


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    #140
    nibtrix
    Registered Users Posts: 1,305 ✭✭✭nibtrix


    ash23 wrote: »
    They had been together for a really long time, she was upfront about what she wanted and he was imo, pr!cking her around, knowing she was getting older and him time to conceive was getting more limited.

    According to the article the only time they ever discussed it she sat him down and said "I think I'm pregnant". He promptly bolted and disappeared for a year. I think he made his views perfectly clear by doing that!

    Once he came back it seems never to have been mentioned. She had the coil removed and tried to conceive for 18 months (!!!) without telling him, so clearly they didn't discuss it at all.


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    #141
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    le la rat wrote: »
    Its bad but at least she was going out with him years. Id think of her as an awful b if she was only with him a short time

    I think it's worse she was going out with him for years before she done this.....he probably thought he could trust her
    Originally Posted by ash23
    They had been together for a really long time, she was upfront about what she wanted and he was imo, pr!cking her around, knowing she was getting older and him time to conceive was getting more limited.


    If she wants a child so badly, what was stopping her going out and finding a man who actually wanted to be a father to her child?


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    #142
    IzzyWizzy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭IzzyWizzy


    kylith wrote: »

    Missing one pill on just the right day, at just the right interval before having sex for the egg to be viable, and not using another form of contraception, coupled with the fact that women who have been on the pill are usually told that it can take from a few weeks up to six months while their fertility returns to normal makes any claims of 'I forgot my pill the day we had sex and I got pregnant' highly suspect to me.

    I've been taking the pill for 13 years, forgotten to take it a few times, had sex, didn't get pregnant. Had a gippy belly after taking it, didn't get pregnant. Vomited, didn't get pregnant. Took it outside of the window of time I was allotted, didn't get pregnant. Getting pregnant can take weeks or months of trying for people who want to get pregnant. If a woman claims to have forgotten to take one pill and gets pregnant then either she's got amazing ovaries, her partner's got the most badass sperm ever, or something dodgy's going on.

    Do you understand how the pill works? It doesn't matter about timings, because women on the pill don't have normal cycles. If you miss a pill and ovulate, any sex you have in the next few days could result in pregnancy. There's no way of knowing how much chance someone has of ovulating if they miss one pill. Sure, it's more likely they won't, but by no means is it impossible or even all that unlikely, depending on what type of pill it is.

    You not getting pregnant despite taking the pill badly means absolutely nothing other than you were lucky. It means absolutely nothing that some women have difficulties getting pregnant - many women don't and it only takes a small slip-up to get pregnant. One of my college friends had sex on the same day she had a very upset stomach and she got pregnant. She had an abortion. No way did she want that to happen.

    That's total rubbish about fertility after the pill, BTW. In some cases, yes, it can take a while, but in many cases it can only be a week or two. I was ovulating normally a month after coming off the pill. My mum got pregnant with my sister right after coming off the pill. None of this stuff is as incredibly unlikely as you seem to think it is.


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    #143
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    IzzyWizzy wrote: »
    Do you understand how the pill works? It doesn't matter about timings, because women on the pill don't have normal cycles. If you miss a pill and ovulate, any sex you have in the next few days could result in pregnancy. There's no way of knowing how much chance someone has of ovulating if they miss one pill. Sure, it's more likely they won't, but by no means is it impossible or even all that unlikely, depending on what type of pill it is.

    You not getting pregnant despite taking the pill badly means absolutely nothing other than you were lucky. It means absolutely nothing that some women have difficulties getting pregnant - many women don't and it only takes a small slip-up to get pregnant. One of my college friends had sex on the same day she had a very upset stomach and she got pregnant. She had an abortion. No way did she want that to happen.

    That's total rubbish about fertility after the pill, BTW. In some cases, yes, it can take a while, but in many cases it can only be a week or two. I was ovulating normally a month after coming off the pill. My mum got pregnant with my sister right after coming off the pill. None of this stuff is as incredibly unlikely as you seem to think it is.

    Her stomach mustn't have been that upset & who in this day and age doesn't know a dodgy tummy can affect the pill - if your on it you make it your business to find out these things


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    #144
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    Scanlas The 2nd wrote: »
    He's been tricked, he's a victim, simple as.

    In this case, I have condemned the woman. The man in this case was tricked into fathering the child, quite coldly and calculating, by a manipulative, selfish woman. He is a victim.

    However, what are calling "victim blaming" was me advocating that men who are worried about impregnating a woman take responsibility for their own fertility. That's sensible advice, not blaming the father in the article. I was talking about when accidents happen and you seem to be interpreting me incorrectly.


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    #145
    IzzyWizzy
    Registered Users Posts: 6,645 ✭✭✭IzzyWizzy


    Boombastic wrote: »
    Her stomach mustn't have been that upset & who in this day and age doesn't know a dodgy tummy can affect the pill - if your on it you make it your business to find out these things

    She did know. She'd already had sex, shortly before she got sick. I think she may have even gone for the morning after pill and it didn't work.


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    #146
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    Boombastic wrote: »
    Her stomach mustn't have been that upset & who in this day and age doesn't know a dodgy tummy can affect the pill - if your on it you make it your business to find out these things

    I've met plenty of women who wouldn't. In fairness, doctors, IME, don't spend a lot of time educating people on the risks.

    Two other points: it doesn't have to be a very bad stomach upset for the pill to be affected. Slight diarrhoea could do it.

    Also, people are human and as such flawed. If she did know, it's entirely possible with a full mind or busy week to forget something as minor as a mild stomach upset. It happens. There doesn't need to be any calculation or malevelonce involved for an accident to occur. The fact that she had an abortion would seem to reinforce that it was completely unintended.


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    #147
    Madam_X
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,327 ✭✭✭Madam_X


    MetalDog wrote: »
    Thankfully only a small minority of headcases think like her.
    Amen. Some folks seem to want it to be countless women.
    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    But with the attitude shown to Fathers, and men in general these days, I suppose this article shouldn't be all that surprising.
    No it is. Such women are a minority.
    It's why I am slow to read any women's mags or articles re men by women anymore.
    I'm not always slow to read them, because I don't think all women who write for magazines are out to attack men, the way I'm not, and you're not.
    I think sometimes women forget that men are thinking, feeling human beings with wants and needs too. They are not just there for our entertainment and to help us procreate.
    I don't know any woman who thinks like that about men. Do you? There are arseholes in existence unfortunately - why does it have to be gendered?
    ash23 wrote: »
    I hate the attitude that every unplanned pregnancy is the woman trying to trap the man.
    It's horrible and depressing, particularly when held by women.

    If a guy has any fears whatsoever, buy a pack of condoms - don't leave it all up to the woman. The pill is not 100% effective.


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    #148
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Millicent wrote: »
    I've met plenty of women who wouldn't. In fairness, doctors, IME, don't spend a lot of time educating people on the risks.

    Two other points: it doesn't have to be a very bad stomach upset for the pill to be affected. Slight diarrhoea could do it.

    Also, people are human and as such flawed. If she did know, it's entirely possible with a full mind or busy week to forget something as minor as a mild stomach upset. It happens. There doesn't need to be any calculation or malevelonce involved for an accident to occur. The fact that she had an abortion would seem to reinforce that it was completely unintended.

    It actually scares me when I'm talking to women in their early 20s and they say they're not drinking because they're on antibiotics and I'll mention the pill and they start panicking.


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    #149
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It actually scares me when I'm talking to women in their early 20s and they say they're not drinking because they're on antibiotics and I'll mention the pill and they start panicking.

    If they get pregnant because of this then it is not an accident, it is stupidity


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    #150
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    Boombastic wrote: »
    If they get pregnant because of this then it is not an accident, it is stupidity

    And I assume you've never erred or been misinformed?


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    #151
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    Millicent wrote: »
    And I assume you've never erred or been misinformed?

    I'm not saying that I haven't but with something as important as this I make it my business to find out.


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