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Immaculate deception: 'I don't regret tricking my boyfriend into having kids'

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    #92
    Madam_X
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,327 ✭✭✭Madam_X


    Boombastic wrote: »
    Onixx wrote: »
    Why can't you accept most of them are accidents (no quote-marks needed)?

    Law of averages
    Oh you've stats on this? Or do you personally know lots of women who had accidents?

    I don't. I know two women of all the women I know with children (a lot, seeing as I'm in my 30s) whom I suspect MAY have resorted to this (can't say for certain though, and wouldn't be dying for it to be the case just for the drama/opportunity to bitch).
    The accidents, no matter how seemingly high they are (and I'd bet they're not that high) are still the minority, seeing as thousands and thousands of people have sex every day after missing a pill.


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    #93
    Toby Take a Bow
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,732 ✭✭✭Toby Take a Bow


    Wibbs wrote: »

    I have known a subset of women who had very healthy, full and wide ranging sex lives in their 20's with nary a "scare", then out of the blue get pregnant in their mid 30's when by most standards their fertility would be running lower.

    It's mental how different people run in different circles. I have yet to know one single woman who, even if I was incredibly paranoid and suspicious, could be suspected of doing anything like this.
    Wibbs wrote: »
    Sometimes too it's a subconscious thing with some women, especially in their 30's if they feel times running out kinda thing.

    How would you know if it's a subconscious thing for some women?


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    #94
    Madam_X
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,327 ✭✭✭Madam_X


    The two women I know whom I suspect of this (with good reason - it's not just a hunch out of thin air) were 19 and 24. So they don't fit into the "tick tick tick desperation" bracket.


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    #95
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    Onixx wrote: »
    Boombastic wrote: »
    Onixx wrote: »
    Why can't you accept most of them are accidents (no quote-marks needed)?


    Oh you've stats on this? Or do you personally know lots of women who had accidents?

    I don't. I know two women of all the women I know with children (a lot, seeing as I'm in my 30s) whom I suspect MAY have resorted to this (can't say for certain though, and wouldn't be dying for it to be the case just for the drama/opportunity to bitch).
    The accidents, no matter how seemingly high they are (and I'd bet they're not that high) are still the minority, seeing as thousands and thousands of people have sex every day after missing a pill.

    Combined contraceptive pill: over 99% effective if taken correctly. Less than one woman in 100 will get pregnant in a year while taking the combined pill.

    Progestogen-only pill: 99% effective if taken correctly. One woman in 100 will get pregnant in a year while taking the progestogen-only pill.


    If the number of women getting pregnant is way above this then it is down to user error.

    In this day and age, people need to take personal responsibility and reserach for themselves if an additional medication/herb will have side effects on their pill (easily done with internet). Anyone who has even glanced at the information leaflet accompanying the pill will see that sickness effects it. Pill, like most of the other contraceptions, also has lots of side effects that would scare the bejaysis out of you.


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    #96
    PC CDROM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 408 ✭✭PC CDROM


    Millicent wrote: »
    What a silly cow. That could have totally gone the other way. Fair enough, the chap was apparently delighted when she did get pregnant, but what if he wasn't? A child deserves, as much as possible, two parents who love it, not one who will secretly resent it for the rest of its life.

    Selfish wagon. Unfair to both the father and the child.

    The fact that he was over the moon shows she knew him better than anyone. She played the odds.

    Lets face it if he really, really didn't want kids it would never have happened.


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    #97
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    PC CDROM wrote: »
    The fact that he was over the moon shows she knew him better than anyone. She played the odds.

    Lets face it if he really, really didn't want kids it would never have happened.

    It wasn't fair to take the choice out of his hands. She shouldn't presume to know his thoughts. If a guy was poking holes in condoms or replacing his girlfriend's pill for sugar pills because he *knew* she'd want to get pregnant, would that be any better? Both scenarios are fucked up, IMO.


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    #98
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Millicent wrote: »
    It wasn't fair to take the choice out of his hands. She shouldn't presume to know his thoughts. If a guy was poking holes in condoms or replacing his girlfriend's pill for sugar pills because he *knew* she'd want to get pregnant, would that be any better? Both scenarios are fucked up, IMO.

    And even then she'd have the choice as to whether or not to have the kid or not.


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    #99
    bnt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,968 ✭✭✭✭bnt


    May I suggest that some of the "it's OK" commenters go back and read the whole article? It's about a stupid woman who (a) had three kids, which is already one too many and (b) was well over 40, making having another child so much more risky. So now she has a child with Down Syndrome, who's going to need special care for the whole of his short life (well in to her 60s), and will never be a fully productive member of society.

    I know that parents love their children. That's not in dispute, it's what we do as human beings. But that doesn't make it OK to procreate when all the signs are pointing to "don't". In this overpopulated, economically faltering, environmentally failing world, love is not enough to make procreation a good idea. In my humble opinion, of course.

    From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, ‘Look at that, you son of a bitch’.

    — Edgar Mitchell, Apollo 14 Astronaut



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    #100
    Boombastic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,496 ✭✭✭Boombastic


    Millicent wrote: »
    It wasn't fair to take the choice out of his hands. She shouldn't presume to know his thoughts. If a guy was poking holes in condoms or replacing his girlfriend's pill for sugar pills because he *knew* she'd want to get pregnant, would that be any better? Both scenarios are fucked up, IMO.


    Good point, if the story was about a man pricking holes in the condoms with pins to decieve her, I bet the comments here would be a lot different


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    #101
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    Deleted User wrote: »
    And even then she'd have the choice as to whether or not to have the kid or not.

    As she should. Neither partner should be forced into bring a child into the world that they don't want. That said, both parties are responsible for contraception if both feel so strongly about it.
    Boombastic wrote: »
    Good point, if the story was about a man pricking holes in the condoms with pins to decieve her, I bet the comments here would be a lot different

    I find either scenario horrifying, seriously. It's toying with people's lives for your own selfish desire.


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    #102
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Millicent wrote: »
    As she should. Neither partner should be forced into bring a child into the world that they don't want. That said, both parties are responsible for contraception if both feel so strongly about it.

    Shoulds are all well and good, only the women has a choice once a pregnancy has started.


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    #103
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Shoulds are all well and good, only the women has a choice once a pregnancy has started.

    Because she will carry it for nine months. It's an important distinction.


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    #104
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Millicent wrote: »
    Because she will carry it for nine months. It's an important distinction.

    Yeah but the "neither partner should be forced into bring a child into the world that they don't want" rings a little hollow.


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    #105
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Yeah but the "neither partner should be forced into bring a child into the world that they don't want" rings a little hollow.

    Well, carry on taking responsibility for your own contraception and you should have nothing to worry about then.


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    #106
    kincsem
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,013 ✭✭✭kincsem


    “I was just coming to the end of my marriage and he was in a similar situation with his wife. He was looking for somewhere to go."

    Nice people. They deserve each other.


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    #107
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Millicent wrote: »
    Well, carry on taking responsibility for your own contraception and you should have nothing to worry about then.

    There's that wonderful word "should" again. :)


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    #108
    Gandhi
    Registered Users Posts: 976 ✭✭✭Gandhi


    kincsem wrote: »
    “I was just coming to the end of my marriage and he was in a similar situation with his wife. He was looking for somewhere to go."

    Nice people. They deserve each other.

    Problem is that the baby did nothing to deserve to be in the middle of it.


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    #109
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,687 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    I think this is possibly the most dispicable of devious behaviours women can use against men, using their bodies to entrap them into years of at the very least maintenance, or worse marriage.

    It might have worked out in this case, but it's an appalling example.


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    #110
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,112 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    le la rat wrote: »
    Brilliant alright
    kylith wrote: »
    What a fantastic slogan!
    Ah shucks *blushes*:o:o :)
    theg81der wrote: »
    The pill failure rate is 0.2% per year - says it all.
    Well it may say something. Surprise pregnancies tend to happen a lot less with women on the implant/injection. This is not to suggest any underhandedness BTW, taking a pill at the same time every day, with ignorance about any number of other drug interactions can make a huge difference(one ex of mine on the pill was described heavy duty antibiotics yet the doctor didn't ask nor take into account her contraceptive choices. I did and we went back to the oul willy latex ski mask). That said I would suspect in some and I do mean some cases there may be other things in play.
    Toby Take a Bow wrote: »
    It's mental how different people run in different circles. I have yet to know one single woman who, even if I was incredibly paranoid and suspicious, could be suspected of doing anything like this.
    Oh sure TTaB, birds of a feather flock together and all that and it's well possible there's some background selection bias going on with those peeps I've known.
    How would you know if it's a subconscious thing for some women?
    Because I would know the women in question pretty well and they'd not be the "I'm gonna trap a man" types at all. Quite the opposite. I just noted that these well clued in and bloody intelligent women had a statistical oddity with regard to falling pregnant by mistake in their 30's These were women with long standing very healthy sex lives with barely a blip, yet when they reached a certain stage in life suddenly they fell pregnant? It didn't quite equate for me. Though it may make sense from a biologically/evolutionary standpoint. The oft quoted notion that women hit their sexual peak in their 30's and are more into vaginal sex in that same timeframe might well plug into it*. The body/brain/mind is thinking WTF, you've not had a child yet? So that may well influence them at a more basic level and that influence may make them more casual about the risk of pregnancy compared to a 19 year old with two decades to decide yay or nay ahead of them. In a way not consciously obvious to them at the time.

    BTW I've seen similar in men too. Childless guys knocking on the door of 40 who seem to get notably blase about the whole "oh god she might get up the duff". Shít looking back I felt it myself to a small, but noticeable degree while in a longterm relationship in my late 30's. I was very "meh" about the contraceptive thing, even though on the surface I was "oooh jesus nooooooo". At 25 I was wearing the johnnie, attached to a wet suit and I was *ahem* pulling out before the horses left the stable, even when I knew and defo trusted my partner was on the pill/coil. The make a baby mindset is a blood strong one in both genders, or can be and that's where the grey area can kick in.





    *obviously I'm drawing broad strokes here. It does not make it any kind of rule.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #111
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    Deleted User wrote: »
    There's that wonderful word "should" again. :)

    That's personal responsibility for you. :)


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    #112
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Millicent wrote: »
    That's personal responsibility for you. :)

    Well not really. Man does everything right and there's still a chance of a kid being born whether he wants it or not. Woman does everything right and there's still a chance of conception. She however always has a way out, the man doesn't.


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    #113
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Well not really. Man does everything right and there's still a chance of a kid being born whether he wants it or not. Woman does everything right and there's still a chance of conception. She however always has a way out, the man doesn't.

    Welcome to the world of being an adult. Shit sucks sometimes, dude. What can I tell you?


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    #114
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Millicent wrote: »
    Welcome to the world of being an adult. Shit sucks sometimes, dude. What can I tell you?

    Excellent response.


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    #115
    mackg
    Registered Users Posts: 3,938 ✭✭✭mackg


    Onixx wrote: »
    The two women I know whom I suspect of this (with good reason - it's not just a hunch out of thin air) were 19 and 24. So they don't fit into the "tick tick tick desperation" bracket.

    There are still quite a few girls who simply want to finish school find someone and settle down. They may be in a relationship of one or two years at that age and find their partner isn't interested in the whole family thing, like most guys in their early twenties, and then a small irrational subset of those women may pull a stunt like this.

    With the whole accident thing when on the pill there is definitely a chance that some women may claim it failed when they simply forgot (genuinely) to take it if they were worried about their partners reaction to the news.


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    #116
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Excellent response.

    Why thank you, good sir. Validation on the internet. It's worth its weight in gold.


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    #117
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Millicent wrote: »
    Why thank you, good sir. Validation on the internet. It's worth its weight in gold.

    Well why else would we be online right now?


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    #118
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Well why else would we be online right now?

    For the craic? Why do you think we're online right now? :confused:


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    #119
    strobe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,872 ✭✭✭strobe


    Millicent wrote: »
    There are a number of contraceptives available but sadly all at present (bar condoms) become the responsibility of women -- the coil, the implant, the cap, the injection etc.

    What we should see more of is allowing men to have vasectomies without the requirement that they first have children. However, the fail rate for vasectomy is about 2 in every 100 so condoms or some other contraceptive should also be used.

    There is a male contraceptive injection currently in end stage clinical trials in India (which means it could be out for general use {in India in anyways} within a couple of years), and which is soon to begin clinical trials in the USA, which is very promising.

    Takes 15 minutes to get the injection, lasts for ten+ years, has none of the side effects associated with hormonal contraception or risks associated with vasectomy, has been proving 100% effective in clinical trials, and is easily reversible with another simple injection.

    It's called Reversible Inhibition of Sperm Under Guidance (RISUG) and could possibly put a permanent end to this whole 'baby trap' business.

    http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/04/ff_vasectomy/

    http://digitaljournal.com/article/307482

    Sounds bitchin'.


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    #120
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    strobe wrote: »
    There is a male contraceptive injection currently in end stage clinical trials in India (which means it could be out for general use {in India in anyways} within a couple of years), and which is soon to begin clinical trials in the USA, which is very promising.

    Takes 15 minutes to get the injection, lasts for ten+ years, has none of the side effects associated with hormonal contraception or risks associated with vasectomy, has been proving 100% effective in clinical trials, and is easily reversible with another simple injection.

    It's called Reversible Inhibition of Sperm Under Guidance (RISUG) and could possibly put a permanent end to this whole 'baby trap' business.

    http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/04/ff_vasectomy/

    http://digitaljournal.com/article/307482

    Sounds bitchin'.

    I've heard of this for quite a few years now and would love to see it introduced. Would give much greater choice to couples and allow men to take their fertility more actively into their own hands. Could only be a great introduction -- the sooner the better!


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    #121
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 25,611 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Millicent wrote: »
    For the craic? Why do you think we're online right now? :confused:

    Was meant to be a light-hearted comment, I obviously misread the room.


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