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The Panel

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    #272
    bluetop
    Registered Users Posts: 383 ✭✭bluetop


    redno.3 wrote: »
    bluetop wrote: »
    So big deal because they have passed the exams mean's diddly, they have still not been recruited have they, or been offered a place, just because you are on a panel and have passed everything does not give you the sole right to a place, things change goal posts move as well everyone knows, so with all that passed and they still could not get into the Reserve force.

    I think you are doing that with that silly comment!


    I think you are very wrong there!

    Passing all stages does give you a right to a place, that is what the recruitment process is for, it might change in the future but we have done everything that was asked of us in applying.

    I have nothing at all against the reserves but I think your extremely naive to think you can just jump from the reserves to the full time force, it does not and should not work that way.

    Thats my opinion!

    Correct in applying only means nothing till you are in behind the gate, as i have said things change all the time and with the recession we are in who knows what way things will work in the future, if i knew that i would have the winning lottery tickets, as you say things should not work that way, but only the powers to be can answer that question.


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    #273
    bluetop
    Registered Users Posts: 383 ✭✭bluetop


    Tyron Jara wrote: »
    I feel the panel will be re-evaluated. They may keep some places for reserves and panel members. Therefore not everyone in the current panel will get in. Either will every reserve.

    However I do feel while the panel is still there then they have just as much of a chance as a reserve has. Reserve has the experience however the panel is still active therefore they will have to have places put aside for panel members and reserves ... then again they don't have to do anything!

    And you know this how ?? things change especially when the purse strings are been pulled tight.


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    #274
    Tyron Jara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 265 ✭✭Tyron Jara


    bluetop wrote: »
    And you know this how ?? things change especially when the purse strings are been pulled tight.

    This is just what I think might happen None of us have a clue what will happen. Everything here is speculation and rumor and alot of hope for those of us who want to join.


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    #275
    thekopend
    Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭thekopend


    id put my money on Armageddon, before garda recruitment. (reality).... vs.....(fairyland)... nuff said.


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    #276
    P.C.Plod
    Registered Users Posts: 62 ✭✭P.C.Plod


    The talk among higher level ranks at AGS is to scrap the panel as there are too many people over 35.
    Its just talk at them moment but not good news.
    Im going to look elsewhere now i think


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    #277
    Yogi Bear
    Registered Users Posts: 115 ✭✭Yogi Bear


    P.C.Plod wrote: »
    The talk among higher level ranks at AGS is to scrap the panel as there are too many people over 35.
    Its just talk at them moment but not good news.
    Im going to look elsewhere now i think

    It's a bit unfair if that is the case. It's not the applicants fault they are getting older.

    Every one applied before they were 35, but the ban for the last three years has caused this age increase. They should take this into account when they are considering it.


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    #278
    dunner515
    Registered Users Posts: 310 ✭✭dunner515


    P.C.Plod wrote: »
    The talk among higher level ranks at AGS is to scrap the panel as there are too many people over 35.
    Its just talk at them moment but not good news.
    Im going to look elsewhere now i think

    So you're not the only one to of heard this I take it


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    #279
    Tommi78
    Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭Tommi78


    P.C.Plod wrote: »
    The talk among higher level ranks at AGS is to scrap the panel as there are too many people over 35.
    Its just talk at them moment but not good news.
    Im going to look elsewhere now i think

    I dunno why have the age limit at 35 if your going to decide to change the entrance criteria.. also i thought one of the biggest problems the AGS had was keeping experience in the force.. my point being for any of those over 30 they were not likely to retire early as the younger members of the force at 50 or so.


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    #280
    thekopend
    Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭thekopend


    Tommi78 wrote: »
    I dunno why have the age limit at 35 if your going to decide to change the entrance criteria.. also i thought one of the biggest problems the AGS had was keeping experience in the force.. my point being for any of those over 30 they were not likely to retire early as the younger members of the force at 50 or so.

    being older doesn't count as having more experience, a 40 year old garda with 20 years is just as experienced as a 50 year old with 20 years. the problem is most guards retire soon after the 30 years. if anything, more gards that join younger stay on longer as they are only 50 ish when they have 30 years done. a gard that joins at 30 or 35 can only do 30 years as they will be at retiring age anyway. thus retiring with less experience.

    so id say the opposite, joining younger makes you more likely to stay for more than 30 years keeping experience for longer, where joining older doesn't. your mixing up age with experience its not life experience they need, experience is the amount years service done. joining older only makes you older when your retiring not more experienced, if your 35 joining you will only have max 30 years done but if you 22 you could have up to 40 years service.they want to keep the lads with 30 years for just a few more years, with lads that joined a 35 thats not possible. as you said lads of 30 arent likely to retire at 50, but thats because ye will only have 20 years experience/service and you have to do 30 to get a half decent pension.

    some of the lads who joined young are retiring at we will say 52 are doing so because they meet the requirements of having 30 years service and being at leased 50. where as some will stay longer. its the younger recruits that lead to the most experienced gards in most cases. i recon the age limit was brought up from 27 so as not to have all young gards and to have a mixed age group( it certainly wasnt done to get more experienced gards) so it easier for members of the public to relate to them rather than having a young garda telling a sixty year old man whats what( not saying there is anything wrong with that) there will be more older gards who he will probably be happier talking to. just an explanation you get my drift. sorry rant over, probably repeated myself but it was awkward to explain fully.


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    #281
    Tommi78
    Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭Tommi78


    Your 100% there you have put it exactly how I had it in my head.... Great post.... These are the kind of posts that should be debated here... Instead of the battles about whether or not the panel should be scrapped


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    #282
    bluetop
    Registered Users Posts: 383 ✭✭bluetop


    What is going to happen when they change the retirement rules, you will only get what you have paid in, that is been brought in from next year so if you do 10 yrs that is all you will get.

    That is why I have said before there is no age restriction been premoted from within the ranks, just people don't read into it correctly, reserve member is the way forward, watch wait and see if I am wrong.


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    #283
    thekopend
    Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭thekopend


    i am 100% that being a reserve will not let you train to be a guard over the age limit, there is no age limit of promotion between ranks in the guards, but no promotion from reserve to garda exists or ever will,even tho a reserve is the rank below a garda, you cant be promoted from reserve to garda. they are completely different, different entry requirements, different age limit, completely different and more advanced training to be a guard. to go from a reserve to garda you have to apply from scratch the same as any civilian and meet all the requirements which includes being 35 or younger so stop day dreaming and stop saying it is the way you want it to be, instead of the way it actually is.

    your saying if a reserve who is 62, which they can be, could possibly be promoted to garda and start as a full garda at 64 after training, thats the best iv ever heard, get real will you. and dont say oh they will only promote the younger reserves because that wont slide either. yogi bear as for time passing for that long after application i think it will be a case of tough luck and the inevitable will happen imo, which i think is bad form unfortunately.

    back when my ould lad retired 8 years ago, the pension was decided by the average income of the last 3 years of service( pension was based on years served eg 30 years got you 100% but any less reduced that) . he told me all the guards used to be doing loads of extra time in the last 3 years to build up the average income to make the pension even better ( after 30 years service of course), that was considered culture in the gards at the time, whereas now its an average of total service which includes the early years of ****e pay thus bringing down the average pay, which affects pension and also having 30 years or not will affect that aswell.


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    #284
    Lenn Brennan
    Registered Users Posts: 266 ✭✭Lenn Brennan


    well said


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    #285
    bluetop
    Registered Users Posts: 383 ✭✭bluetop


    thekopend wrote: »
    your saying if a reserve who is 62, which they can be, could possibly be promoted to garda and start as a full garda at 64 after training, thats the best iv ever heard, get real will you. and dont say oh they will only promote the younger reserves because that wont slide either.

    There is a part on Kildare street if you look and it will give due Recognition for service served by reserve members, i said nothing about people over the 60 age bracket, i am not that naive, i know that would never happen, but for people over the 35 age bracket, its a waiting game so lets wait and see, it has been done in other countries, so why not Ireland, do you think we are something different.

    The country is broke so if they can cut corners to save money they will, dont you think, they do it all the time.


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    #286
    username78
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38 ✭username78


    bluetop wrote: »
    it has been done in other countries, so why not Ireland, do you think we are something different.

    The country is broke so if they can cut corners to save money they will, dont you think, they do it all the time.


    Yeah,we are a different country,we don't have to copy other countries recruitment policies.The age limit was 26 only a few years ago and I can't see them extending it beyond 35 anytime soon if ever.


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    #287
    thekopend
    Registered Users Posts: 1,072 ✭✭✭thekopend


    due recognition and a promotion are streets apart. i know reserves who apply will have due recognition but they are not going to get anything more than that, unless it changes to all reserves recruitment. due recognition is not going to exempt any reserve from the current requirements, it will just give them that bit more help when they decide to apply for full time, those who meet the full time requirements of course, when recruitment opens up. and i don't see how allowing reserves who are over 35 to join full time saves money if anything its the opposite. there are plenty of reserves under 35 to do the next 2 or 3 intakes.

    in my opinion the recruitment will be taken from civilians and reserves, but only ones that meet current requirements, in both cases.


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    #288
    bluetop
    Registered Users Posts: 383 ✭✭bluetop


    username78 wrote: »

    Yeah,we are a different country,we don't have to copy other countries recruitment policies.The age limit was 26 only a few years ago and I can't see them extending it beyond 35 anytime soon if ever.

    Where do you think the reserve concept came from ? It just appeared from thin air.


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    #289
    P.C.Plod
    Registered Users Posts: 62 ✭✭P.C.Plod


    Please keep your reserve chat to your own forum. You already got this thread deleted once and everyone getting get suck and tired of you pushing your opinion as if it's fact.
    Recognition is all you get and that will apply of you get as far as interview stage.
    Also remember that those people that joined the reserve and don't show for their minimum hours and/or are not getting on well, this will go against you just as due recognition can go for you.


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    #290
    bluetop
    Registered Users Posts: 383 ✭✭bluetop


    P.C.Plod wrote: »
    Please keep your reserve chat to your own forum. You already got this thread deleted once and everyone getting get suck and tired of you pushing your opinion as if it's fact.
    Recognition is all you get and that will apply of you get as far as interview stage.
    Also remember that those people that joined the reserve and don't show for their minimum hours and/or are not getting on well, this will go against you just as due recognition can go for you.

    Totally agree with you on your last opinion, and I think all people that post here it's their opinion as well, as for people not turning up for their hours they should be asked to resign, there are plenty waiting to join.


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    #291
    Lenn Brennan
    Registered Users Posts: 266 ✭✭Lenn Brennan


    I've a pain in my swiss hearing about the reserves, im man enough to accept that there is a possibility the panel COULD be scrapped but I think theres a lot of jealousy towards the panel too.

    Whatever happens happens. Just because some sergeant in some station reckons they'll recruit directly from the reserves, doesn't make it so.Opinions are opinions, nobody has FACTS.


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    #292
    thelongwait08
    Registered Users Posts: 21 ✭thelongwait08


    they took our jobs..... der er dur


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    #293
    bluetop
    Registered Users Posts: 383 ✭✭bluetop


    thelongwait08 wrote: »
    they took our jobs..... der er dur

    :D


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    #294
    2wsxcde3
    Registered Users Posts: 380 ✭✭2wsxcde3


    I have 3 things to say:
    1. Being a reserve wont be a big help to becoming a guard. Why? Because the commissioner wants to keep reserve numbers as high as possible. They were aiming to get reserves to be 10% of the force. Therefore, hes not likely to want to be recruiting too many of them into full time guard positions thereby lessening the number of reserves.
    2. The panel will be scrapped. Why? Because while the official number of guards is to be cut to 13,000. The real number they're aiming for is closer to 12,000 and suggestions of alot less than even this. I've heard this from senior sources deep within garda HQ, not guards/sergeants/inspectors etc just giving their opinion down the local station. It'll be a long time before recruitment will recommence which isn't good news for the panel which also brings me onto my third point...
    3. AGS is desperately low on numbers of young gardai. Think about it - what are the youngest possible guards out there atm? No recruiting since 2008, so the youngest possible would be 22 or 23 year olds. But in practice, AGS didn't recruit too many numbers in the 18-19 year old age bracket. They went for older candidates as would be suggested by the increase in recent years of the age limit being risen from 26 to 35. In practice, i can tell you from working as a reserve that the "young" guards on units are typically in the 28-30 age bracket. Not exactly young anymore. So would they want to be bringing in people the next time in around the same age as these guys? or bring in people in their early to mid twenties to freshen up the age profile of AGS?
    Conclusion: Very few of us on here will be guards.


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    #295
    username78
    Closed Accounts Posts: 38 ✭username78


    I know alot of gardai who joined straight after school with no college/full time work experience..there's gardai out there only 26 with five/six years experience in the job.
    I actually know of one guard whose 21st coincided with his graduation.
    As for very few of us here becoming gardai that's a mathematical fact regardless of how impressive your CV is,intakes of as low as 50 I've heard and that's when recruitment eventually starts with tens of thousands applying everyone will be disappointed bar a few.
    Howlin is looking for more savings from public sector and all the uncertainty in Europe its the worst time to be looking to join AGS or any job!


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    #296
    Tyron Jara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 265 ✭✭Tyron Jara


    2wsxcde3 wrote: »
    I have 3 things to say:
    1. Being a reserve wont be a big help to becoming a guard. Why? Because the commissioner wants to keep reserve numbers as high as possible. They were aiming to get reserves to be 10% of the force. Therefore, hes not likely to want to be recruiting too many of them into full time guard positions thereby lessening the number of reserves.
    2. The panel will be scrapped. Why? Because while the official number of guards is to be cut to 13,000. The real number they're aiming for is closer to 12,000 and suggestions of alot less than even this. I've heard this from senior sources deep within garda HQ, not guards/sergeants/inspectors etc just giving their opinion down the local station. It'll be a long time before recruitment will recommence which isn't good news for the panel which also brings me onto my third point...
    3. AGS is desperately low on numbers of young gardai. Think about it - what are the youngest possible guards out there atm? No recruiting since 2008, so the youngest possible would be 22 or 23 year olds. But in practice, AGS didn't recruit too many numbers in the 18-19 year old age bracket. They went for older candidates as would be suggested by the increase in recent years of the age limit being risen from 26 to 35. In practice, i can tell you from working as a reserve that the "young" guards on units are typically in the 28-30 age bracket. Not exactly young anymore. So would they want to be bringing in people the next time in around the same age as these guys? or bring in people in their early to mid twenties to freshen up the age profile of AGS?
    Conclusion: Very few of us on here will be guards.





    1.Are you serious?? Being a reserve Will be a big help to join AGS. I know allot of reserves who would leave if it wasn't.Including myself. Any fresh face young reserve you see, 95% of them want full time. If being a reserve didn't contribute to becoming full time in some way eg the experience, then I wont be doing it anymore and allot of others feel the same. They would lose allot of their reserve force. Being a reserve is a an advantage but it can be a disadvantage too if your bad at the job.

    2. The panel may be scrapped. However those that are left deserve to be recruited!! Until they are told they are scrapped then we can presume they are still in the road to becoming members of AGS.Best of luck to you guys too as its been a tough wait for me as a reserve I cant imagine what its like for ye being so close to being recruited.

    3. As said above allot of these young guys wanting to be guards are actually reserves now too. Those who are not have there reasons. If AGS is smart about things they will recruit a percentage of the panel, reserves and the public!!


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    #297
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 18,749 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    i did hear recently that there may be 100 or so taken in next year from whatever the last recruitment drive was, but thats not 100%.
    just rumours in templemore


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    #298
    bluetop
    Registered Users Posts: 383 ✭✭bluetop


    bubblypop wrote: »
    i did hear recently that there may be 100 or so taken in next year from whatever the last recruitment drive was, but thats not 100%.
    just rumours in templemore

    And as they say pigs might fly as well, what do people say about hearsay ?


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    #299
    Lenn Brennan
    Registered Users Posts: 266 ✭✭Lenn Brennan


    bluetop wrote: »
    bubblypop wrote: »
    i did hear recently that there may be 100 or so taken in next year from whatever the last recruitment drive was, but thats not 100%.
    just rumours in templemore

    And as they say pigs might fly as well, what do people say about hearsay ?

    you seem to base a lot of your posts on hearsay too pal


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    #300
    Tyron Jara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 265 ✭✭Tyron Jara


    Lenn Brennan wrote: »
    you seem to base a lot of your posts on hearsay too pal
    Everything here is here say. We wont know anything until AGS or the government actually come out and say something. However I have also heard about the recruitment being this October and next year but only 50 at a time.

    My source about recruitment being in October is a garda family of sgts and inspectors.


    But guys lets be realistic. AGS are going to be undermanned if things keep going like this. There going to want a cheap and fast way to get new recruits. They have two resources here. The panel who they can fast track in (Although medical may be required again) and reserves that have shown good work.


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    #301
    P.C.Plod
    Registered Users Posts: 62 ✭✭P.C.Plod


    Thanks for sharing your info.
    All sounds good and quite plausible.
    What you said at the end about 2 options, the panel, obviously, is there to be called upon and Medicals and physicals will have to be done again. But it won't be as simple as promoting reserves with good records, they will have to go through some sort of recruitment process, at least interviews, Medicals and physicals. There are rules and regulations for recruiting in the public sector.
    Hope your right about October and next year though


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