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Floyd Mayweather Vs Miguel Cotto

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    #272
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    Littlehorny wrote: »
    He's not even the greatest welterweight of all time. Sugar Ray Leonard, Tommy Hearns and Sugar Ray Robinson would beat him for starters.

    Robinson maybe if he didn't fight on past his prime, raking up losses. But Leonard and Hearns? Not a chance.


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    #273
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,595 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Robinson maybe if he didn't fight on past his prime, raking up losses. But Leonard and Hearns? Not a chance.

    But maybe if Floyd met anyone resembling Duran's talent or "Hagler's" talent then he may not be 0.

    The poster said SRL and Hearns beat him at WW. Not that they are greater. Do you think WW Floyd beats WW Hearns and WW Leonard?

    SRL beats Floyd at WW. That I would be confident of. Hearns beats him too.

    Calzaghe is 49-0 or close to that. Marciano was never beaten.

    Ricardo Lopez was an exceptional talent and I beleieve he was never beaten.

    I find it odd that you think Floyd proved he is the GOAT and used last nights win over Cotto to cement this claim or aid this claim. Cotto is not great.

    What about Manny? World belts in 7 divisions, is it?


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    #274
    moneyman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,337 ✭✭✭moneyman


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Mayweather is the greatest boxer in the history of the sport, and he proved that last night. Anyone who thinks otherwise is wrong.


    You have no idea what you're talking about. Floyd was good last night, but not amazing. I thought Cotto did pretty well. And as good as Floyd was, Manny destroyed Cotto. By your logic, Manny should be the greatest ever. Unless you're going to throw out the weight they fought at, which really is an invalid argument.


    I don't understand people going silly over Floyd. Is he the best in the world right now? Yes. Is he the GOAT? Not even close, IMO. He really does seem to attract people who become attached to him on a personal level. Very strange.


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    #275
    Littlehorny
    Registered Users Posts: 2,351 ✭✭✭Littlehorny


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Robinson maybe if he didn't fight on past his prime, raking up losses. But Leonard and Hearns? Not a chance.

    Leonard and Hearns not a chance? Wow, i tell you what Roberto Duran would beat Floyd and Sweet Pea would beat him too:D


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    #276
    willmunny1990
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,432 ✭✭✭willmunny1990


    Everyone will have a different opinion of who the greatest in the world is, is Floyd one of the potentials? Yes.

    I can't see anyone around at the moment that would be able to beat Floyd.

    Manny is definitely not one of them, i think Floyd would beat him easily over 12 rounds.


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    #277
    colly10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,002 ✭✭✭colly10


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Cotto was no bum - he is one of the greatest boxers alive today, and Mayweather made it look easy beating him.

    Manny stopped him, Manny is far from the greatest of all time though.

    Cotto is a good fighter, he's is far from one of the greatest in the history of the sport though, the result would be expected. It was alot closer than I expected though


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    #278
    zindicato
    Registered Users Posts: 423 ✭✭zindicato


    styles make fights as they say so all in all we can say floyd will easily beat manny or vice versa but we will never know untill they meet in the ring.... but one thing that ill ask is did mayweather clearly hurt cotto in this fight? not really.... Manny knocked him silly and if anyone says bout the catchweight thing floyds fight against marquez was also one..... but it was a good fight between cotto and mayweather and just proves that him and manny even if its two years too late now they still should get it on.


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    #279
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    walshb wrote: »
    But maybe if Floyd met anyone resembling Duran's talent or "Hagler's" talent then he may not be 0.

    The poster said SRL and Hearns beat him at WW. Not that they are greater. Do you think WW Floyd beats WW Hearns and WW Leonard?

    Yes, he beats both of them in their prime.
    walshb wrote: »
    SRL beats Floyd at WW. That I would be confident of. Hearns beats him too.

    Not a chance.
    walshb wrote: »
    Calzaghe is 49-0 or close to that. Marciano was never beaten.

    Neither of them fought close to the competition that Mayweather fought. Mayweather isn't undefeated because he fought weak opposition - he's undefeated because he's an amazing boxer with impeccable defense, timing and accuracy.
    walshb wrote: »
    I find it odd that you think Floyd proved he is the GOAT and used last nights win over Cotto to cement this claim or aid this claim. Cotto is not great.

    It was the icing on the cake. It's the culimination of his entire career - and it's completely unimportant if he ever fights Pacman. He's already the greatest. And if he ever does fight Pacman, he'll beat him too.
    walshb wrote: »
    What about Manny? World belts in 7 divisions, is it?

    He's not undefeated. Christ, Marquez beat him in their last fight -irrespective of what the record says. Don't get me wrong - Pacman is one of the greatest fighters of this era - but Mayweather is better.


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    #280
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    moneyman wrote: »
    You have no idea what you're talking about.

    Yes, I do. I've been watching boxing since I was old enough to look at a television. Mayweather is the greatest boxer to have ever lived, and would beat any welterweight in the history of the sport - Robinson included.
    moneyman wrote: »
    Floyd was good last night, but not amazing. I thought Cotto did pretty well. And as good as Floyd was, Manny destroyed Cotto. By your logic, Manny should be the greatest ever.

    No - because my logic does not include using one single fight as the basis of an entire career. Mayweather's career has been full of quality opposition, and he has beat them all. He makes greart fighters look like amateurs. It takes a very special boxer to do that.


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    #281
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,595 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Yes, he beats both of them in their prime.



    Not a chance.



    Neither of them fought close to the competition that Mayweather fought. Mayweather isn't undefeated because he fought weak opposition - he's undefeated because he's an amazing boxer with impeccable defense, timing and accuracy.



    It was the icing on the cake. It's the culimination of his entire career - and it's completely unimportant if he ever fights Pacman. He's already the greatest. And if he ever does fight Pacman, he'll beat him too.



    He's not undefeated. Christ, Marquez beat him in their last fight -irrespective of what the record says. Don't get me wrong - Pacman is one of the greatest fighters of this era - but Mayweather is better.

    Well, show me this amazing opposition that Floyd beat?

    SRL and Hearns beat him. You say "not a chance," that to me is odd. I mean, Floyd isn't even a natural WW. Many many people would agree that SRL at WW is too good for Mayweather. Many will also say Hearns is. I say they are.

    I listed Calzaghe as undefeated.. You then dismiss this based on who he met. Ok, who has Floyd met that is so much better?

    As for Manny. I never said he was the GOAT, but he has a claim just like Floyd. I mean, if a criterion is that they must be unbeaten, then Manny is out, but I guess then that nearly all the great great fighters thru history are out.


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    #282
    gene_tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭gene_tunney


    megadodge wrote: »
    I thought Mayweather won by 4-5 rounds. No doubt about it. But Cotto performed quite well and also proved to me that one of the key things to beating Floyd is a good jab. When Cotto let go combinations he usually missed with the rights and left hooks but usually seemed to land the straight lefts when they were thrown as part of a combination. Dela Hoya's jab caused Mayweather a lot of problems too.

    I truely feel that Mayweather is not as good as he was. When watching it I thought of Walshb's comment a while back about his legs not being as good as they were and there's no doubt he spent far longer on the ropes last night than I've ever seen him. I don't believe for a second it's because he was "toying with" Cotto as the terrible sycophantic commentary team kept saying. He just doesn't have the legs to keep moving away anymore. It happened Ali, Jones, etc. and now it's happening to him.

    After that display I feel Pacman has a better chance than I thought previously.

    Exactly how I feel and what I was saying after the Ortiz fight.


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    #283
    colly10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,002 ✭✭✭colly10


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Neither of them fought close to the competition that Mayweather fought. Mayweather isn't undefeated because he fought weak opposition

    Could you name his 5 best opponents (and Marquez for obvious reasons doesn't count as one, either does a half dead Mosley). Is there anyone in that list on the level of Duran, Hagler or Hearns?


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    #284
    insanity50
    Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭insanity50


    Anyone who says the weight difference doesn't matter is a complete amateur when it comes to boxing.

    Cotto at 154 is a strong hungry beast.

    At 147 he was absolutely drained drip dry. That's why manny pucked the head off him.

    At this level of the game every lb matters.

    Mayweather came up and fought Oscar at his weight and beat the bollox off him and did the same last night.

    Manny is a good fighter, but nowhere near Floyd's level.

    Last night was a phenomenal performance, I gave Cotto 2 rds, 3 at most. Those were the two rounds Floyd decided to rest.

    People don't appreciate that
    A) Floyd fought Cotto's fight cause he wanted to. He dictated being on the ropes because he wanted the KO, and wanted to give the fans a war. Cotto pressured him a lot and he hit Floyd more than Floyd usually gets hit, but he was also missing with a large chunk of his shots. Floyd was never in trouble and at any point could step to the outside and pick Miguel off as he did in the last four rounds. He fought a war to give the fans what they wanted.

    B) mayweather is the greatest fighter of this generation. He may very well have a solid case to being the greatest of all time, it depends what barometer you would measure that by. He comes up trumps in most categories though. Hasn't taken any abuse, never been beaten

    To the lad who mentioned Clazaghe as a goat, jesus he fought two top lads when they were both past it. only fought in america twice. there's a padded record if ever you want to see one.

    Walshb your detest for mayweather and nuthuggery of pacquaio is despicable; please don't post if you're going to be so biased.

    give floyd his props.

    Talks of retirement last night. There's really not much left for him to do.

    Other than pacquiao it's all young hungry lions like canelo that are being bred, they're prob too green to face floyd and he will be done when they are at a level to face him.


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    #285
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,595 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    insanity50 wrote: »
    Walshb your detest for mayweather and nuthuggery of pacquaio is despicable; please don't post if you're going to be so biased.

    give floyd his props.

    .

    Hmm, I don't think PBF is the GOAT, and that translates to me detesting PBF:confused:

    I guess me stating that from 130-140 PBF is one of the best ever also means that I detest PBF?

    The reference to Calzaghe was due to his record. That's all. It seems that dlofnep lends a fair bit of weight to the undefeated record. That's grand, but other champs too were undefeated, and many greats were defeated.

    Also, who are the special opponents Floyd has beaten? Really, not saying they are poor, but they are hardly so much better than Calzaghe's opponents. For the record, I rate PBF above Calzaghe.

    BTW, go watch Oscar-Floyd, and then get back to me. Beat the bollix off him? What? It was a split decision win, where Floyd looked very uncomfortable for a lot of that bout. And, there were folks who thought Oscar won that fight.

    What Floyd did to Gatti was a "bollix beating." So, it seems you are the nuthugger here if you are claiming that Floyd beat the bollix off Oscar.

    Cotto is not a beast. Never really was. He is a very decent fighter, but seriously, did anyone pick him to win? And, does anyone seriously think that Manny could not whup Cotto again at 154? I think Manny does the same to him. And, Cotto was not 147 lbs, he was meeting Manny at 145 lbs. That bit of info strengthens your argument, you know.

    So, steady on. No detesting here at all. I don't think PBF is the GOAT. Shoot me!


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    #286
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,595 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Oh, and I thought Floyd performed very well last night and deserved the win, just in case anyone thinks that I detest him and thought he lost. I backed him to win, and on points too. I didn't expect him to be so busy. He performed more enthusiastcally last night than on previous shows. He put on a show.


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    #287
    colly10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,002 ✭✭✭colly10


    insanity50 wrote: »
    Anyone who says the weight difference doesn't matter is a complete amateur when it comes to boxing.

    Cotto at 154 is a strong hungry beast.

    At 147 he was absolutely drained drip dry. That's why manny pucked the head off him.

    At this level of the game every lb matters.

    Cotto was a welterweight who had never fought above 147 prior to the fight with Manny. He weighed in a lb under the limit in the fight before Manny which would not be a sign that he was beginning to struggle with the weight.

    Manny fought him at 145, not 147 which is another lb again on his previous fight. Of course it makes a difference but he wasn't fighting a corpse either, Cotto fought well till he was dropped.

    I would not call him a hungry beast at 154 either, before last night his only impressive performance at that weight was against AM and Marg isn't exactly at the top of his game at this stage
    insanity50 wrote: »
    He dictated being on the ropes because he wanted the KO, and wanted to give the fans a war.........He fought a war to give the fans what they wanted.

    Of course he'd say that, he doesn't take unnecessary risks though based on his entire career. He has been critisized before for not going for the KO or "doing enough" and it's not something that bothered him.
    He prides himself on outboxing fighters and not being hit
    insanity50 wrote: »
    To the lad who mentioned Clazaghe as a goat, jesus he fought two top lads when they were both past it. only fought in america twice. there's a padded record if ever you want to see one.

    Walshb your detest for mayweather and nuthuggery of pacquaio is despicable; please don't post if you're going to be so biased.

    Noone mentioned Calzaghe as being a potential for being the GOAT, he was just used to show that an undefeated record isn't everything

    Has Walshb not just said he thinks Floyd would beat Manny, maybe the only nuthugger here is you


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    #288
    gene_tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭gene_tunney


    How did you score it folks?

    I had it 9 rounds for Mayweather, 2 for Cotto and 1 even.

    118-111 Mayweather.


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    #289
    gene_tunney
    Registered Users Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭gene_tunney


    I'd like to add though, that the fight was closer than the above scorecard suggests because many rounds were very close. Overall, a clear, dominant win by Mayweather, but not without some hiccups and hairy moments.


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    #290
    colly10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,002 ✭✭✭colly10


    gene_tunney wrote: »
    How did you score it folks?

    I had it 9 rounds for Mayweather, 2 for Cotto and 1 even.

    118-111 Mayweather.

    Didn't score but felt about 2 or 3 rounds for Cotto, as said it was alot closer than the scorecard. Floyd did enough to edge nearly all the close rounds


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    #291
    Henno30
    Registered Users Posts: 2,220 ✭✭✭Henno30


    insanity50 wrote: »
    At 147 he was absolutely drained drip dry. That's why manny pucked the head off him.

    Jesus christ :rolleyes:

    Always a pity when the fanboys come along and pollute threads. Fortunately we won't see them again until the next Mayweather fight.


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    #292
    corny
    Registered Users Posts: 7,753 ✭✭✭corny


    gene_tunney wrote: »
    How did you score it folks?

    I had it 9 rounds for Mayweather, 2 for Cotto and 1 even.

    118-111 Mayweather.

    Near enough exactly how i saw it.

    I also thought Cotto was very competitive in most rounds but he was just a bit easier to hit. Floyd is always a difficult man to score rounds against even when you're well able for him, as Cotto was.


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    #293
    Henno30
    Registered Users Posts: 2,220 ✭✭✭Henno30


    gene_tunney wrote: »
    How did you score it folks?

    I had it 9 rounds for Mayweather, 2 for Cotto and 1 even.

    118-111 Mayweather.

    I gave Cotto four rounds. He was well in the fight heading into the late rounds, but predictably Floyd's superb conditioning became a major factor and he dominated from there. His strength and sharpness in those final rounds was amazing considering the level of pressure Cotto had applied.

    I know walshb criticised Cotto's unwillingness to unload when he got in close but I actually thought that was one of the best features of his performance. Too often against Mayweather you see guys frantically winging ineffective shots when they get Floyd against the ropes, with Floyd rolling and deflecting them until they tire themselves out. Cotto executed some excellent combinations from that position and banged Mayweather up more than anyone has done before.

    I know where people are coming from in saying that they'd give Pacquiao a better chance now. There's some reason to feel that way for sure. However, Cotto is a better boxer than Manny and although he does present a big target, his defence is generally tighter as well.

    In Manny's favour is of course his speed and power, but also his conditioning which is one of the decisive factors against Mayweather. It's interesting that the only guy you could ever say beat him (Castillo) did so because he was the one on top in the late rounds, having been beaten for the first four or five where he didn't expend too much energy.


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    #294
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,595 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Henno30 wrote: »
    I know walshb criticised Cotto's unwillingness to unload when he got in close but I actually thought that was one of the best features of his performance. Too often against Mayweather you see guys frantically winging ineffective shots when they get Floyd against the ropes, with Floyd rolling and deflecting them until they tire themselves out. Cotto executed some excellent combinations from that position and banged Mayweather up more than anyone has done before.
    .

    He did do some effective work, but there were too many instances where he got close, crouched, and froze. Floyd was then was unloading, ducking, unloading and moving, with Cotto wasting that time.

    Floyd was consistenly getting off first, making Cotto always think. Thing is, Cotto is extremely methodical, thinks slowly, has a steady rhythm, that Floyd exploited and upset. Floyd forced Cotto to think fast, and defend more than attack. Floyd mixed it up so well. Was aggressive in spurts, then moving, then aggressive and attacking. Cotto was not allowed establish a methodical rhythm.


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    #295
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,595 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    ooPabsoo wrote: »
    Passed his best?...Cotto is 31, Mayweather is 35. I know Cotto has been in more wars than Mayweather, but 31 is not "passed it" by any means. Cotto fought well, but he was beaten by the better fighter.

    Being past your best is not just about your age. Cotto is more past it than Floyd because Cotto has been in more wars, as you accurately mentioned. He's a shopworn fighter. Cotto is not a shell, but he is not the same fighter he was pre Margarito. That fight, and then the drubbing Manny gave him really took some years off him. I was not impressed with Cotto last night. He did well, but was never a threat in there. Floyd being Floyd was a big part of this, I admit.


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    #296
    insanity50
    Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭insanity50


    how are those sour apples tasting bren

    give it a rest. floyd put on a masterclass. your boy pacquiao wouldn't be fit to lace his gloves.


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    #297
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,595 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    insanity50 wrote: »
    how are those sour apples tasting bren

    give it a rest. floyd put on a masterclass. your boy pacquiao wouldn't be fit to lace his gloves.

    I agree. Floyd beats Manny. As for sour apples, I'll let you know if I ever eat some.


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    #298
    insanity50
    Closed Accounts Posts: 211 ✭✭insanity50


    walshb wrote: »
    I agree. Floyd beats Manny. As for sour apples, I'll let you know if I ever eat some.

    Finally you took manny's nuts out of your mouth and his asshole out of your eyes long enough to take a look at the world around you.

    congrats.

    great to see you finally admit defeat after all these years of trumpeting little ms pacman.


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    #299
    minty16
    Registered Users Posts: 561 ✭✭✭minty16


    Scored it 9-3 to Mayweather in rounds. He was pretty good, the fake jab and overhand right was brilliant. The commentator completely ruined the fight for me though and I didnt enjoy it. Some of the stuff he was coming out with was ridiculous. I'm getting tired of Floyd at times though, I mean, just get out there and fight people. It's sort of annoying because I think he has the skills to beat anyone and go down as an all time top 10 or even higher, but for me his CV isnt good enough for that.


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    #300
    Spazdarn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,986 ✭✭✭Spazdarn


    insanity50 wrote: »
    Finally you took manny's nuts out of your mouth and his asshole out of your eyes long enough to take a look at the world around you.

    congrats.

    great to see you finally admit defeat after all these years of trumpeting little ms pacman.

    He's stated many times on this forum over the last year or so that he believed Floyd would shade it if they fought.

    If anyone's got nuts in their mouth, it's clearly you.


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    #301
    Ardent
    Registered Users Posts: 5,280 ✭✭✭Ardent


    Was disappointed with Cotto, thought he would bring more of a war to this fight. Having said that, I had him winning 4 rounds.

    The commentary throughout the fight was a joke and totally ruined the spectacle for me. As Jim R said afterwards, they had their minds set on the winner from the start and weren't going to be deflected from it.

    Props to Floyd, not his best performance but he was just too good for Cotto. Greatest of all time? Not even close. He just hasn't fought the calibre required to justify that title. Also, he doesn't have many memorable exciting fights to look back on - most victories have been defensive duck/jab points victories against mixed opposition. And a couple of sucker punch victories.

    The Mayweather groupies on here make me puke with their fawning. Grow up and watch some of the previous greats in action.


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