Gamsat 2012

insanity50 · 05-04-2012 12:30pm

I'm a third year gems student from UL.

Stay well clear is all i'll say!!!!!

Pretty much all UL students will be fit for is becoming a GP, it's a on running joke amongst the staff and students here, it's pretty much a gp training school tbh.

very few will go on to do anything else; basically the handful of students who realise quickly how crap the school is and decide to better themselves in spite of their circumstances.

a lot of the students here want to be gps anyway, very few of them want to learn the in depth medical sciences as they are brainwashed that they don't need to know it, or have chosen ul intentionally because they believe this new form of medicine is the future, and that you genuinely don't need to know it. when any biochem or micro or pharm was mentioned in my pbl groups there was always a chorus of groans and sighs and ''ah we dont need to know that stuff''

i did a kaplan usmle prep course last year and only for doing that id have been an absolute show on the wards this year.

theres only about 30 percent of people i feel sorry for in the school. the canadian students who have been absolutely ripped off and bent over, and the 15ish irish students who have aspirations of being something more than a gp.

Jammyc · 05-04-2012 8:13pm

LoveSick · 05-04-2012 8:24pm

Reality_Check1 wrote: »

Her advice would be similar - if you have the points for somewhere else then dont go to UL

I hope you can share some more info.
I may not have done well enough to secure any place, but I still have to sort out my CAO preferences.
I always thought I'd put UL 4th as I have already spent 3 years in college in Limerick. I'm from Cork, so financially UCC would be best, but I want a change of scene. I cannot decide between RCSI & UCD for numbers one and two. I'm going to an open morning in UCD next Thursday to get a better feel of the place. Are you happy in UCD??

Flange/Flanders · 05-04-2012 8:34pm

I am extremely sceptical of the 2 posts above.

Bella84 · 05-04-2012 10:18pm

I dunno,is it just me or is it all a bit negative this year? The good is being taken out of it!!!! But the other half of me thinks we're better off knowing.

Does anyone know if it's too late to add choices to your CAO application? Due to a change in circumstances it might be possible to pursue UCD but I didnt think Dublin would be an option so didnt put it on the application!!! Dont make this mistake, kids

LoveSick · 06-04-2012 1:08am

Bella84 wrote: »

I dunno,is it just me or is it all a bit negative this year? The good is being taken out of it!!!! But the other half of me thinks we're better off knowing.

Does anyone know if it's too late to add choices to your CAO application? Due to a change in circumstances it might be possible to pursue UCD but I didnt think Dublin would be an option so didnt put it on the application!!! Dont make this mistake, kids

Yes there is a little negativity about it, but I guess it's more real life than this illusion that graduate medicine is easy. I think we get a little too caught up in the GAMSAT. I'm sure, as difficult as it is, the course is more challenging in many different ways...

Yes we can amend CAO applications when the change of mind option is available from May 5th to July 1st. I spoke to & emailed CAO about it. I was worried as Grad med is a "restricted" course that it was exempt from the change of mind facility, but I've been reassured that once you have applied for one course, you can add/delete courses from your application within the change of mind time frame. Phew! As I also want to change mine!

Stephan Grundy · 06-04-2012 5:28am

I'm beginning to somehow get the idea that GP's are not particularly highly thought of in this country - is this generally accurate? Is the GP considered a sort of lowest common denominator in Irish medicine?
The recent posts regarding UL are a bit disappointing, as I had rather liked the PBL concept. Still, better to find out now than after it is too late.

foreverandever · 06-04-2012 7:57am

Stephan Grundy wrote: »

I'm beginning to somehow get the idea that GP's are not particularly highly thought of in this country - is this generally accurate? Is the GP considered a sort of lowest common denominator in Irish medicine?
The recent posts regarding UL are a bit disappointing, as I had rather liked the PBL concept. Still, better to find out now than after it is too late.

GPs are given out about alot because people think it's the easiest options, esp by students and consultants. But when you start working people realise GP is one of the few medical careers where you can have a reasonably balanced outside life, hence why so many regs and even on occasion consultants go back to train as GPs. I'm not sure is a jealousy thing or a wrongly skewed perception of what they do but GP is an extremely rewarding job probably the reason why it is difficult to get on the training schemes every year.
There is a shortage of GPs and one of the theories behind graduate med was that it would increase the number of people would want to settle down and become GPs as the graduates are older and possibly at a different stage in life as undergrads. UL have an extremely focused GP route, with the students spending weeks in a GP practice at the expense of hospital rotations.

Reality_Check1 · 06-04-2012 8:34am

LoveSick wrote: »

I hope you can share some more info.
I may not have done well enough to secure any place, but I still have to sort out my CAO preferences.
I always thought I'd put UL 4th as I have already spent 3 years in college in Limerick. I'm from Cork, so financially UCC would be best, but I want a change of scene. I cannot decide between RCSI & UCD for numbers one and two. I'm going to an open morning in UCD next Thursday to get a better feel of the place. Are you happy in UCD??

I absolutely love UCD - I really couldnt speak highly enough about the place. Im sure you'll see when you attend the open morning next week exactly what the college is about. The lecturers are excellent and the workload is manageable (I consider manageable being in college about 12 hours a day doing study and assignments)

I was also stuck between UCD and RCSI. What clinched it for me was the financial aspect - RCSI costs 2.5k more per year and imho you dont get anything extra for that money. Apart from this all the rest of the GEM colleges cost the same and if you are going to be paying for it you might as well get the best value for money. PBL isn't some new age way of teaching medicine it was just introduce because its a cheap way of creating new Doctors at the cost of a proper education

Stephan Grundy wrote: »

I'm beginning to somehow get the idea that GP's are not particularly highly thought of in this country - is this generally accurate? Is the GP considered a sort of lowest common denominator in Irish medicine?
The recent posts regarding UL are a bit disappointing, as I had rather liked the PBL concept. Still, better to find out now than after it is too late.

It depends where you work tbh. I spent a couple of weeks with an inner city GP and some of the stuff you get to see is crazy and very interesting. However my classmates wernt so lucky and pretty much said that for 2 weeks all they got to see were headcolds! or those with female GP described it as "tears and smears" The latter is probably the perception among hospital doctors of most GP's and that they have a handy number

Sorry for sounding so negative towards UL but every year you have someone on here warning people against it but they always get shouted down being accused as a troll (probably by students of UL protecting their college). They then go to UL and by Christmas regret their decision

beardedmaster · 06-04-2012 1:58pm

foreverandever wrote: »

GP is one of the few medical careers where you can have a reasonably balanced outside life
...
it is difficult to get on the training schemes every year.
...
There is a shortage of GPs

All of these points I would take as being entirely true, but there is more that I can add to them.
The second and third points are entirely dependent on the first point - and it's all to do with a few simple facts, which I say without meaning the slightest bit of disrespect.
There is a shortage of GPs, definitely, but more specifically, there is a shortage of male GPs. GP is indeed perceived (and can be) one of the few jobs where an outside life isn't beyond the realm of possibility, but, because of this, many women who wish to have kids and raise families decide to become a GP. This competition is what makes getting onto the training schemes so difficult.
Many of the GPs running their own practices are finding it very, very difficult to find young male GPs to work for them - and they're looking for males simply for the fact that with women "get fertile upon permanency" in a particular practise. Those words in inverted commas are not my own.
I really know this all sounds horribly sexist, but it's something that I've heard from various fairly high profile GPs, even coming from the top of the ICGP. There isn't really much that I think can be done about it, simply because of sexist it'd be.

ciara84 · 06-04-2012 2:39pm

beardedmaster wrote: »

All of these points I would take as being entirely true, but there is more that I can add to them.
The second and third points are entirely dependent on the first point - and it's all to do with a few simple facts, which I say without meaning the slightest bit of disrespect.
There is a shortage of GPs, definitely, but more specifically, there is a shortage of male GPs. GP is indeed perceived (and can be) one of the few jobs where an outside life isn't beyond the realm of possibility, but, because of this, many women who wish to have kids and raise families decide to become a GP. This competition is what makes getting onto the training schemes so difficult.
Many of the GPs running their own practices are finding it very, very difficult to find young male GPs to work for them - and they're looking for males simply for the fact that with women "get fertile upon permanency" in a particular practise. Those words in inverted commas are not my own.
I really know this all sounds horribly sexist, but it's something that I've heard from various fairly high profile GPs, even coming from the top of the ICGP. There isn't really much that I think can be done about it, simply because of sexist it'd be.

you're talking like men never go off on "parental leave"

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/leave_and_holidays/parental_leave.html

foreverandever · 06-04-2012 3:37pm

No unfortunately I think he's right. Women have great aspirations but reach their thirties and then realise they want to have children. They go into GP and then only want to work part time. The solution would be to make medicine more family friendly but i don't think that's going to happen. For years you had more female undergrads going into medicine due to the leaving cert and so naturally there were more females applying for schemes. That's another thing graduate medicine and the hpat are hoping to do-increase the males in medicine. Graduate medicine definitely has disadvantages for women.

Bella84 · 06-04-2012 6:57pm

LoveSick wrote: »

Yes there is a little negativity about it, but I guess it's more real life than this illusion that graduate medicine is easy. I think we get a little too caught up in the GAMSAT. I'm sure, as difficult as it is, the course is more challenging in many different ways...

Yes we can amend CAO applications when the change of mind option is available from May 5th to July 1st. I spoke to & emailed CAO about it. I was worried as Grad med is a "restricted" course that it was exempt from the change of mind facility, but I've been reassured that once you have applied for one course, you can add/delete courses from your application within the change of mind time frame. Phew! As I also want to change mine!

you'd certainly want to change them after reading this thread anyway, we're a bunch of grumpy feckers!! But sure, I 'd rather hear the warts and all accounts and make an informed decision rather than going into it with my eyes closed. At the end of the day, you want to be the best doctor you can be and if that means travel, extra fees etc then thats the way it has to be....

Bella84 · 06-04-2012 7:02pm

Guys, to anyone who enjoys reading and wants to be a GP (a noble profession, though not for me) ye should log onto amazon and buy a book called "Confessions of a GP" . Written by a doctor working for the NHS and he tells short stories about some of the characters he's encountered in his time as a GP. Seriously worth a buy, some laugh out loud stories, and also some stories that will have your jaw on the floor, such as the nice middle class woman who suffers from pornographic dreams about Tom Jones!!

Well worth it....

Bella84 · 06-04-2012 7:08pm

foreverandever wrote: »

GPs are given out about alot because people think it's the easiest options, esp by students and consultants. But when you start working people realise GP is one of the few medical careers where you can have a reasonably balanced outside life, hence why so many regs and even on occasion consultants go back to train as GPs. I'm not sure is a jealousy thing or a wrongly skewed perception of what they do but GP is an extremely rewarding job probably the reason why it is difficult to get on the training schemes every year.
There is a shortage of GPs and one of the theories behind graduate med was that it would increase the number of people would want to settle down and become GPs as the graduates are older and possibly at a different stage in life as undergrads. UL have an extremely focused GP route, with the students spending weeks in a GP practice at the expense of hospital rotations.

I agree. This has been the major factor influencing my newfound sense of suspiciousness regarding UL. I dont want to be a GP so while I feel its appropriate for those who do, I'd rather the hospital time over anything else on offer. But I do see GP's as the "front line" staff and having worked in Local Authority for some time now, it's always the staff who are the first point of contact that get the worst of people's tempers, predjudices etc.....so from that point of view one has to have a level of respect for them, surely??

ciara84 · 06-04-2012 8:12pm

Bella84 wrote: »

I agree. This has been the major factor influencing my newfound sense of suspiciousness regarding UL. I dont want to be a GP so while I feel its appropriate for those who do, I'd rather the hospital time over anything else on offer. But I do see GP's as the "front line" staff and having worked in Local Authority for some time now, it's always the staff who are the first point of contact that get the worst of people's tempers, predjudices etc.....so from that point of view one has to have a level of respect for them, surely??

not really, ER docs suffer much more abuse than GPs, esp from the likes of drug seekers etc, atleast most GPs know their patients well and know what they are dealing with, most ER docs only see the person for the first time

foreverandever · 06-04-2012 8:28pm

Bella84 wrote: »

I agree. This has been the major factor influencing my newfound sense of suspiciousness regarding UL. I dont want to be a GP so while I feel its appropriate for those who do, I'd rather the hospital time over anything else on offer. But I do see GP's as the "front line" staff and having worked in Local Authority for some time now, it's always the staff who are the first point of contact that get the worst of people's tempers, predjudices etc.....so from that point of view one has to have a level of respect for them, surely??

I definitely have respect for GPs, but I do think your college years are to get a taste of everything in the hospital. Especially seeing as if you do become a GP you'll be referring patients to the hostipal for treatment. Also as a student GP can seem like a shortcut as they only have 10-15 mins with the patient and take a very brief history, just they have years of experience and the advantage of knowing their patient which allows them to this. Maybe UL don't have access to as many hospitals as other medical schools and so need to send students to GPs? But that's just a theory!

ciara84 · 06-04-2012 8:39pm

foreverandever wrote: »

I definitely have respect for GPs, but I do think your college years are to get a taste of everything in the hospital. Especially seeing as if you do become a GP you'll be referring patients to the hostipal for treatment. Also as a student GP can seem like a shortcut as they only have 10-15 mins with the patient and take a very brief history, just they have years of experience and the advantage of knowing their patient which allows them to this. Maybe UL don't have access to as many hospitals as other medical schools and so need to send students to GPs? But that's just a theory!

if that was the case then they'd be sending them to cork, its only an hour away, cork has a lot of hospitals and not a lot of students, 2 medicine courses (1 grad 1 undergrad), and 4-5, maybe more teaching hospitals in the city alone, alot of RCSI students go to waterford/kilkenny, so I dont know why this would be a problem if it was the case

foreverandever · 06-04-2012 8:42pm

ciara84 wrote: »

if that was the case then they'd be sending them to cork, its only an hour away, cork has a lot of hospitals and not a lot of students, 2 medicine courses (1 grad 1 undergrad), and 4-5, maybe more teaching hospitals in the city alone, alot of RCSI students go to waterford/kilkenny, so I dont know why this would be a problem if it was the case

Cork is absolutely over-flowing with students! They used (and I think still do) send them to Limerick hospitals as well as Kerry, Clonmel, Bantry etc. So there's no way Cork hospitals will take UL students.

Reality_Check1 · 06-04-2012 9:28pm

Cork dont take any UL students. As far as I know UL had to go as far as Tullamore to get some of their placements

pc11 · 07-04-2012 1:59pm

I've seen a couple of mentions on this thread of an open day at UCD next week but I can't find any info on this on the UCD website. Can anyone elaborate or post a link? Ta.

Jammyc · 07-04-2012 2:16pm

Its at the bottom of the UCD Health Sciences home page.

Edit: That's actually a link to something about the Health Sciences open day, not GEM specifically. There are also a list of dates here.

Not sure if this is the same as the open day being talked about.

pc11 · 07-04-2012 7:23pm

You're a gentleman, thank you. I'd be nervous going to an open day with the 17 year olds as they would be looking oddly at the 'grandad', but feck it!

Jammyc · 07-04-2012 8:04pm

No problem and I can assure you, nobody worth anything bats an eyelid at the mature students!

Nanorman · 10-04-2012 1:31am

Hey everyone!

I know there must be some other people out there that check this site religiously too...... to ease their suffering as we wait for our results! So here are my two cents.
I would really like the opportunity to be involved in research in the future. That is why I decided to attempt the GAMSAT in March. Medical degrees in my eyes were meant to be universally standardised unlike PhDs, but seeing the bashing UL has got over the last week, I have doubted my assumption :P. I am sure UL isn't a bad place, but in saying that it is last on my CAO because of it's apparent obsession with clinical medicine....not very helpful with my aspirations of research! Anyone else want to do research or are you all interested in being "On the front line"?
So here are some links, some of you may have seen but interesting to look at

http://www.atlanticbridge.com/med/faqs/fqindex.htm (The Atlantic Bridge, used by North American students that come to Ireland has some good info about the different schools etc.)

https://careers.nuim.ie/sites/careers.nuim.ie/files/documents/GAMSAT%20MEDICINE2012.pdf (Overview of the Gamsat, the process and the like, anyone notice in the UL is GMP, whilst the rest are GEM? Google'd it and apparently they are the same....but why!?

)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2784445/?tool=pubmed (A research paper on GEM! The 1st paragraph of the discussion: "This study demonstrated that graduate applicants compared to school leaver applicants were significantly more conscientious, more confident, more self controlled, more communitarian in moral orientation and less anxious. Only one of these differences was preserved in the entrants with graduates being less anxious. However, the graduate entrants were significantly less empathetic and conscientious than the school leavers.")

Hope everyone is well!

Jmul91 · 10-04-2012 4:12pm

All these comments have put the fear of god into me about UL... I did the GAMSAT in the UK in september and got 57

I decided not to sit it in march cause I was up the walls with 4th year college ****e. Last year 57 would have got me into UCC (my ideal choice) but knowing my luck points will go up and UL will be my only offer.. My question is should I take a year out and redo the GAMSAT to get a higher score and get into a "better" GEM course.. or should I just take UL and try to make the most of it . I am not interested in becoming a GP so would the GEM course in UL be pretty useless ?

also has anyone any info bout applying for the loans ?

Any help b great!

foreverandever · 10-04-2012 9:18pm

Jmul91 wrote: »

All these comments have put the fear of god into me about UL... I did the GAMSAT in the UK in september and got 57 I decided not to sit it in march cause I was up the walls with 4th year college ****e. Last year 57 would have got me into UCC (my ideal choice) but knowing my luck points will go up and UL will be my only offer.. My question is should I take a year out and redo the GAMSAT to get a higher score and get into a "better" GEM course.. or should I just take UL and try to make the most of it . I am not interested in becoming a GP so would the GEM course in UL be pretty useless ?

also has anyone any info bout applying for the loans ?

Any help b great!

Honestly I would say just go to Limerick if you get it, it's a year of medicine done then. You might end up getting UCC anyway!

Bella84 · 10-04-2012 10:18pm

Jmul91 wrote: »

All these comments have put the fear of god into me about UL... I did the GAMSAT in the UK in september and got 57 I decided not to sit it in march cause I was up the walls with 4th year college ****e. Last year 57 would have got me into UCC (my ideal choice) but knowing my luck points will go up and UL will be my only offer.. My question is should I take a year out and redo the GAMSAT to get a higher score and get into a "better" GEM course.. or should I just take UL and try to make the most of it . I am not interested in becoming a GP so would the GEM course in UL be pretty useless ?

also has anyone any info bout applying for the loans ?

Any help b great!

I feel your pain, man!!!

This is all ridiculously headwrecking.....

On the one hand, I think that a medical degree is a medical degree wherever the parchment is printed and that UL has a beautiful campus, and an (apparently) cutting edge approach to learning. Sometimes I wonder if its criticised only because people are always afraid of what they dont know and that all of this talk about GP's and consultants "looking down" on UL students is crazy because ultimately, doesnt your performance when you are physically in the hospital working and learning under their guidance make the impression, as well as your ability to keep your grades well above average (we hope!) in class count for more than some stupid location? I mean, for all the talk about UCD as being a better college, I have a friend who is doing a thesis on blood disorders and working in a hospital for a stint while she writes it and a consultant recently told her that she "refuses to teach med students from UCD because of their extreme lack of knowledge". These are horrendous generalisations and extremley subjective and unfair. It drives me mad.

But on the other hand, I have noticed that med students in particular are usually quick to defend their course and the fact that UL students are coming out in their droves to criticise the course makes me cringe. Also, Im not entirely comfortable with the non-use of cadavers, particularly for those who want to go on to work as hospital doctors. It's a horrible thing to say, but I think gut instinct comes into play here. Whether or not you'll feel comfortable to go back and sit the GAMSAT again depends on your current age, impatience to get started, employment/financial circumstances, and ability to ignore the massive amount of ****e thats out there and make the best of what you've got.

My 2 cent's worth.

GOING4BROKE · 10-04-2012 10:29pm

Surely no one believed that rubbish about consultants looking down on UL students. If this was in any way the case then I don't know how any of the foreign interns manage to work In Ireland, not everyone of them came from an RCSI!

A consultant very close to me has worked with junior doctors from all walks of life and educational backgrounds from Iran to Germany.

Perhaps we should kick the narrow mindedness and hear say before we start Medicine. Perhaps then a system that is in shambles will have some sort of chance.

foreverandever · 10-04-2012 10:42pm

GOING4BROKE wrote: »

Surely no one believed that rubbish about consultants looking down on UL students. If this was in any way the case then I don't know how any of the foreign interns manage to work In Ireland, not everyone of them came from an RCSI!

A consultant very close to me has worked with junior doctors from all walks of life and educational backgrounds from Iran to Germany.

Perhaps we should kick the narrow mindedness and hear say before we start Medicine. Perhaps then a system that is in shambles will have some sort of chance.

It's because up to now there wasn't enough irish graduates for the intern places, there won't be many foreign (non-EU) interns in years to come!

Gamsat 2012

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