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Offseason Cuts/Trades/Signings/Franchise Tags etc.

2456713

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,249 ✭✭✭Stev_o


    e·lite

    Noun: A group of people considered to be the best in a particular society or category, esp. because of their power, talent, or wealth.

    In this case, the "society or category" is the NFL. Do you really think Jay Cutler is considered to be the best because of his talent? I mean, in my eyes, elite refers to the best of the best - a small group of quarterbacks that have no superiors.

    Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Eli and Peyton are the elite QBs in the NFL imo. Roethlisberger and Rivers would be in the next group behind them. Jay Cutler is a long way off those Quarterbacks. He's good, but he's more at home classed alongside Tony Romo and Matt Schaub. There's not a chance Cutler can be considered elite, not yet anyway.


    Why not? He's the only top level QB who is throwing it to no one
    both at WR and TE under the single worst OL in the history of the NFL.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,929 ✭✭✭JaMarcus Hustle


    Are you really saying Jay Cutler is an elite NFL Quarterback?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭spillit67


    Are you really saying Jay Cutler is an elite NFL Quarterback?

    Sorry to clarify, my mistake. I consider him top 10. Top 5 no but top 10 yeah. I understand that's not everyone's definition of elite but the framing of the q was elite and top 10 so I answered it that way.

    He's potentially top 5 if he is given help. If he had the tools Ryan does then i could see very good things from him


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,173 ✭✭✭✭kmart6


    Stev_o wrote: »
    Why not? He's the only top level QB who is throwing it to no one
    both at WR and TE under the single worst OL in the history of the NFL.
    So that makes him elite?!

    He is nowhere near it, as Arch has said he belongs in the 3rd tier of QB's in the league!

    Hell, look at Eli, 2 Superbowl rings and MVP's and people have argued he's not elite! The elite in the league are Brady,Peyton,Brees, Rodgers and after this year Eli...nobody else can really be put in that group! Big Ben and Rivers are way too inconsistent!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,173 ✭✭✭✭kmart6


    spillit67 wrote: »
    Sorry to clarify, my mistake. I consider him top 10. Top 5 no but top 10 yeah. I understand that's not everyone's definition of elite but the framing of the q was elite and top 10 so I answered it that way.

    He's potentially top 5 if he is given help. If he had the tools Ryan does then i could see very good things from him
    Well actually the only question was if he was elite or not!

    He is nowhere near Top 5....which one of the Mannings,Brady,Brees and Rodgers do you think he's better than?!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,929 ✭✭✭JaMarcus Hustle


    spillit67 wrote: »
    Sorry to clarify, my mistake. I consider him top 10. Top 5 no but top 10 yeah. I understand that's not everyone's definition of elite but the framing of the q was elite and top 10 so I answered it that way.

    He's potentially top 5 if he is given help. If he had the tools Ryan does then i could see very good things from him

    Well then we're arguing over nothing :p

    I'd consider Cutler top 10, probably around the 8-10 range (after Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Manning 1, Manning 2, Roethlisberger and Rivers). I'd have to think about how I would separate Cutler, Stafford, Schaub etc. from one another. Too busy looking at draft stuff to give it a proper think, so I'll give Cutler the edge based on the fact I actually do like the guy!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,064 ✭✭✭spillit67


    This was the Q


    Originally Posted by OAOB:
    Off topic i know but just wondering do you consider Cutler an elite QB?
    Personally i don't think he is, wouldn't be in my top 10 in the league but everyone looks at it differently

    Top 10 and elite mentioned. That's what I was replying to and why I was framing my answers that way.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    Not sure where he might go
    FA is under two weeks away
    NFL Network's Jason La Canfora reiterates that "multiple" teams are interested in Moss, who is reportedly willing to ease his way back into the league by accepting a non-guaranteed contract. Possible fits include the Bears, Pats, Eagles, Ravens, and Jets. Moss is said to be on good terms with former Vikings coach Mike Tice, who is now running Chicago's offense

    Citing a source close to Randy Moss, Yahoo Sports' Jason Cole reports that the free agent receiver is willing to accept a non-guaranteed contract.
    I realy don't see the Ravens going for it, they've spent the last few years bringing in old receivers who just never work out.
    Tandon Doss, a fourth round pick from last year expected to step up and have a role this season. The next Anquan Boldin we're hoping

    Clinton Portis also giving interviews to ESPN and other places and doing his best to get back into the league after a year out.
    Someone will bring him to training camp for a shot.
    I don't know a whole lot about Portis, his best days were before I followed football. He was impressive in the interviews, that man can certainly talk


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,173 ✭✭✭✭kmart6


    Expected....
    Seahawks RB Marshawn Lynch signed a 4 year, $31 million deal, including $18 guaranteed.
    Seahawks and Marshawn Lynch's reps had these numbers agreed to for a month and it took until today for the RB to actually sign off on it.

    Oh and just look how funny Adam is....
    And now, Skittles for everyone.
    ....oh Adam!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,929 ✭✭✭JaMarcus Hustle


    Stevie Johnson resigns with the Bills, and Arian Foster resigns with the Texans.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,929 ✭✭✭JaMarcus Hustle


    Cliff Avril tagged by Detroit


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,091 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    kmart6 wrote: »
    So that makes him elite?!

    He is nowhere near it, as Arch has said he belongs in the 3rd tier of QB's in the league!

    Hell, look at Eli, 2 Superbowl rings and MVP's and people have argued he's not elite! The elite in the league are Brady,Peyton,Brees, Rodgers and after this year Eli...nobody else can really be put in that group! Big Ben and Rivers are way too inconsistent!
    Big Ben is elite.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,929 ✭✭✭JaMarcus Hustle


    Wes Welker tagged by the Pats.


  • Registered Users Posts: 947 ✭✭✭Silver-Tiger


    Wes Welker tagged by the Pats.

    Bowe tagged by Chiefs
    Weatherford tagged by NYG.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,299 ✭✭✭spiralism


    Matt Prater tagged by the Broncos :D


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,434 ✭✭✭Jolly Red Giant


    spiralism wrote: »
    Matt Prater tagged by the Broncos :D
    Big surprise ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    Ravens cut Dominique Foxworth CB

    Was fourth highest player on the team at one stage with a higher base salary then Ray Lewis and a higher cap hit then Ed Reed. CB is a premium position and the contracts are big

    Injured last year, came back for pre-season and until Week Two but was a liability, still not recovered.
    Went on IR and has now failed a physical so gets released with an injury settlement

    You have to wonder if he'll retire now.
    Could end up being head of the NFLPA one day, he's very senior in that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,286 ✭✭✭OAOB


    Mathis tagged by the colts, a bit suprised by that one


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 39,091 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    OAOB wrote: »
    Mathis tagged by the colts, a bit suprised by that one
    He is working out a long term deal with them and its done just to take him off the market and not let others affect the negotiations I think. I don't get why you are suprised by it though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,929 ✭✭✭JaMarcus Hustle


    eagle eye wrote: »
    He is working out a long term deal with them and its done just to take him off the market and not let others affect the negotiations I think. I don't get why you are suprised by it though.

    Didn't take too long either, they've announced a multi-year deal has been agreed.

    Pierre Garçon wasn't frachise tagged either, so looks like both he and Wayne are out of Indy. Interesting to see how they approach adding some WRs in FA and the draft.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,286 ✭✭✭OAOB


    eagle eye wrote: »
    He is working out a long term deal with them and its done just to take him off the market and not let others affect the negotiations I think. I don't get why you are suprised by it though.

    Thought they were trying to get younger on defence so didn't think he was worth franchising and tying up all that money but if they're working out a long term deal i guess it makes sense.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,966 ✭✭✭Syferus


    Didn't take too long either, they've announced a multi-year deal has been agreed.

    Pierre Garçon wasn't frachise tagged either, so looks like both he and Wayne are out of Indy. Interesting to see how they approach adding some WRs in FA and the draft.

    Not franchising Garcon hardly means he's out of Indy, he's not exactly top tier so it would have been quite dangerous with all the uncertainty to potentially lock $14 million into a player you want to keep but not at anywhere near that price. Even Vincent Jackson wasn't franchised and the Chargers really want to hold onto him, the tag value on receivers now is just insanely high and makes tagging receivers an absolute last resort.

    I'd imagine he's the offensive player they want to keep the most this off-season, there's no point getting Luck if you surround him with injury-prone players like Collie or people who are no more experienced with the set-up than Luck himself.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,173 ✭✭✭✭kmart6


    How fcuking pointless tagging Mathis and then coming to deal a couple of hours later..waste of the tag!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,608 ✭✭✭themont85


    kmart6 wrote: »
    How fcuking pointless tagging Mathis and then coming to deal a couple of hours later..waste of the tag!

    Not a coincidence at all I'd imagine. Negotiations would work like that.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,173 ✭✭✭✭kmart6


    Usually it'd take a couple of days to work out a deal after being tagged, not a couple of hours! Could have done with that tag for Garcon!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,608 ✭✭✭themont85


    Mate it's a negotiation. We don't know the motivations for both but

    Examples:

    -deal was on the table. Mathis happy and wants to stay but waits to see if he's going to hit FA before signing it or holds out for the tag knowing if the Colts tag him they will be willing to go to a price on his contract which is more cap friendly.
    -Mathis doesn't want near the tag. He wants a guaranteed contract but once the tag is placed on him he caves on a deal on the table as his leverage is dimished significantly.
    -From Colts Pov they may not wanted to have to tag him but played the card they had in negotiations. Why? Much friendlier cap number then a tag. Mathis could have been holding out for a number the Colts didn't want to pay hoping he'd go closer to theirs rather than be tagged

    Plenty more...

    It's a game of chicken at times and this is a negotiation. That's why there's agents and team contract negotiatiors. The number doesn't fall into place without other factors other than pure worth!

    Might have been a few hundred grand in it and once the cards fell into place and the motivations were clear the deal fell into place. Seems to be like that here


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,173 ✭✭✭✭kmart6


    I know all that, just since I'm a Colts fan I'm just pissed about it!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,299 ✭✭✭spiralism


    Dunno was it mentioned but Chargers opt out of franchising Vincent Jackson, that's one excellent receiver hitting the market.

    Also, Titans franchise Michael Griffin, leaving Cortland Finnegan to test the market


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,173 ✭✭✭✭kmart6


    Finnegan won't be just testing the market...he's leaving Tennessee!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,599 ✭✭✭matthew8


    Who will take Finnegan? Could there be a reunion with Jim Schwartz? There's a need, but I think they have cap problems. The Cowboys could potentially sign him either, so long as they have no problem with his, um, style of play.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,173 ✭✭✭✭kmart6


    He plays hard, people will point to the incident with Andre Johnson but nobody puts any blame on Johnson!

    Can't see why the Cowboys would have an issue with that!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,599 ✭✭✭matthew8


    kmart6 wrote: »
    He plays hard, people will point to the incident with Andre Johnson but nobody puts any blame on Johnson!

    Can't see why the Cowboys would have an issue with that!

    He's got a bit of a dirty reputation even without that Johnson fight. Apparently that's how Jim Schwartz coached him.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,173 ✭✭✭✭kmart6


    Well I was watching a piece on NFL Network(I can't find it anywhere to show it to you) where Fisher fully defended him, pointed out that he plays so hard cause he's had to really work to get to where he is, and that all those perceptions are way off!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,299 ✭✭✭spiralism


    matthew8 wrote: »
    He's got a bit of a dirty reputation even without that Johnson fight. Apparently that's how Jim Schwartz coached him.

    I personally remember us playing them two years ago and he was the dirtiest little **** that i'd ever seen set foot on a field that day. Still though, we're interested and there's no doubt he's a quality player. Would absolutely love to pick him up, we've probably the best shot after St.Louis, we're after making a playoff run, have a mountain of cap space and playing across from champ would mean that he'd get a lot thrown his way and a chance to put up some serious stats


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,299 ✭✭✭spiralism


    Steelers decline to franchise Mike Wallace, he'll become a restricted free agent with a first round tender next week. San Francisco and Pats might take a look, amongst others?


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    Well the steelers can't afford to franchise him I don't think they have cap space.

    I'd be hopeful the 49ers would make an offer, though I would expect the Steelers will do everything they can to match any offer made by SF or NE.

    To my mind he's the best available WR in free agency and is easily worth a late first round pick.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,299 ✭✭✭spiralism


    adrian522 wrote: »
    Well the steelers can't afford to franchise him I don't think they have cap space.

    I'd be hopeful the 49ers would make an offer, though I would expect the Steelers will do everything they can to match any offer made by SF or NE.

    To my mind he's the best available WR in free agency and is easily worth a late first round pick.

    He'd outweigh any player available after 20 talent wise so if the need would be there it makes insanely good sense. Rams could always get in on the mix if they trade back.. I'd say he either stays with the steelers or goes to the niners, they will definitely make a real push for him.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,386 ✭✭✭✭DDC1990


    Any chance of the Bucs, getting an upgrade at WR in Free Agency?

    Loads of Cap space available, and a need for a top 20 Reciever, until Benn and Williams learn to beat coverage. Williams is an excellent Number 2 Reciever, but up against the Big Boys, he was really shown up.

    I know Manningham was touted a while back, but If we were going for a WE, I'd love it to be a guy like Wallace or Jackson.... however unlikely that might be.

    EDIT: First round tender on Wallace... No thanks.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,444 ✭✭✭Dohnny Jepp


    As a titans fan I hope Finnnegan leaves. He's nothing but a punk.


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  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Ayan High Undershirt


    DDC1990 wrote: »
    Any chance of the Bucs, getting an upgrade at WR in Free Agency?

    Loads of Cap space available, and a need for a top 20 Reciever, until Benn and Williams learn to beat coverage. Williams is an excellent Number 2 Reciever, but up against the Big Boys, he was really shown up.

    I know Manningham was touted a while back, but If we were going for a WE, I'd love it to be a guy like Wallace or Jackson.... however unlikely that might be.

    EDIT: First round tender on Wallace... No thanks.

    would make sense but jackson is going to command big bucks


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 719 ✭✭✭neilster


    kmart6 wrote: »
    He plays hard, people will point to the incident with Andre Johnson but nobody puts any blame on Johnson!

    Can't see why the Cowboys would have an issue with that!

    As a Cowboys fan ...have you seen our secondary ...they are like guys playing touch football with tackling banned only no-one has told them they can tackle

    There is no meanness no nastiness and Finnegan has that in spades ....hes a punk and a s.o.b. for sure but hes a good corner ...

    lets look at what we have :

    Cowboys SS Gerald Sensabaugh - Cowboys agreed to terms with SS Gerald Sensabaugh on a five-year, $22.5 million contract extension.
    Sensabaugh, 28, played this season on a one-year, $2.5 million contract. He has started all 12 games, racking up a pair of interceptions and two forced fumbles to go with 60 tackles (50 solo). Pro Football Focus has graded Sensabaugh as a top-ten safety in the league this season, performing effectively in both coverage and run support

    Cowboys CB Terence Newman - je wasnt good enough in 2010 and got burned more in 2011 and due $6m with $4m against the cap ...r u kiddin me...ranked among the worst with profootballfocus in coverage, Newman graded out as Pro Football Focus' 102nd-rated cornerback in coverage amongst the 109 who qualified, youd have to think Janoris Jenkins and Dre Kirkpatrick could end Newmans Cowboys career .

    Orlando Scandrick - signed to a 5 yr $27m deal last year ...he is a capableish slot man but struggles on the outside ...he is being paid like a shutdown corner .. imo he is a reserve

    Abram Elam FS - I thought he did alright but he was ranked as a total liability in coverage with profootballfocus , not good for a Free Safety ...now a free agent

    Cowboys S Barry Church - . Dallas' third safety is in the final year of his rookie contract in 2012 and seen as a reserve

    Cowboys CB Mike Jenkins - will reportedly be sidelined for 4-6 months after undergoing right shoulder surgery last week.

    Jenkins played out the season with a protective harness and could barely lift his arm over his head. He could end up missing the Cowboys' entire offseason program, and will be eased into training camp if he needs the full rehab time. Ranked 40th out of 109 cornerbacks by Pro Football Focus in 2011, Jenkins is entering a contract year. Since intercepting five passes during his 2009 Pro Bowl season, Jenkins has managed just two in his 28 ensuing starts while often struggling in coverage- maybe a keeper

    Cowboys CB CJ Wilson CB - Originally a seventh-round pick out of Baylor in 2007, Wilson has just 27 tackles in 23 career games with the Panthers. He's primarily a special teamer.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,395 ✭✭✭✭mikemac1


    No mention of ex-Giant and ex-Raven Frank Walker?

    His definition of tackling is to haul down the receiver and just take the flag and penalty. A magnet for PI calls

    Ran out of Baltimore and nobody expected that another NFL team would sign him


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,139 ✭✭✭Red Crow


    Possible come back in Blue for Plax? I hope not, it'll piss off Eli.

    Elsewhere for the Giants:
    Signs are pointing towards us resigning Goff and releasing Blackburn. It'll be sad to see Chase go. I have a suspicion Jacobs could be resigned as well. I don't think he will get the offers and might restructure in NY. Manningham will get a nice contract, he's gone. Thomas will get a good offer and Ross probably won't. Thomas stays, Ross gone IMO. McKenzie hasn't earned an offer tbh.

    It will be very interesting to see what Reese plans to do with Osi. We won't be able to resign him next year so keep your eyes peeled on that one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,173 ✭✭✭✭kmart6


    neilster wrote: »
    As a Cowboys fan ...have you seen our secondary ...they are like guys playing touch football with tackling banned only no-one has told them they can tackle

    I said ya wouldn't have a problem with him?! i.e. you could do with his play/attitude :confused:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,369 ✭✭✭UnitedIrishman


    After watching the Cowboys last year, I think even I'd be an upgrade on their secondary to be fair!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,299 ✭✭✭spiralism


    Mario Williams in Denver at the Nuggets game. May just be a coincidence but interesting nonetheless...

    I get the feeling our interest in Manning is a smokescreen so we can pursue our other more realistic free agency targets while the media draws to the chance we might pick up Peyton


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,317 ✭✭✭HigginsJ


    Possible come back in Blue for Plax? I hope not, it'll piss off Eli.

    Elsewhere for the Giants:
    Signs are pointing towards us resigning Goff and releasing Blackburn. It'll be sad to see Chase go. I have a suspicion Jacobs could be resigned as well. I don't think he will get the offers and might restructure in NY. Manningham will get a nice contract, he's gone. Thomas will get a good offer and Ross probably won't. Thomas stays, Ross gone IMO. McKenzie hasn't earned an offer tbh.

    It will be very interesting to see what Reese plans to do with Osi. We won't be able to resign him next year so keep your eyes peeled on that one.

    Dont want Plax anywhere near the Giants. We have Nicks and Cruz, jernigan, barden have a bit of potential. Sad to lose Manningham so hope we draft a WR in maybe the 3rd/4th round again.

    Ross is a liability, no harm to lose him. Thomas & Webster 2 excellent corners, Amukamara be much better this year. Again drafting a guy in the 2nd/3rd round be no harm.

    Would be good if we could trade away Osi for mid round pick and add Mario Williams in free agency.

    Hope Jacobs isnt back but fear he will be. He is such a hit and miss guy these days. No-one would give him a contract that would match his valuation of himself. Personally i'd part ways with him as i'd like to see Ware get a larger role behind bradshaw. He looked very good in small few chance last year.

    Alot of mocks have us taking a RB in the 1st round. I really really hope that isnt the case. I'd like o-line to be addressed maybe Kelechi Osemele.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,173 ✭✭✭✭kmart6


    Who needs Manning....
    Jim Irsay wrote:
    Colts sign free agents, offensive lineman Jake Kirkpatrick and quarterback Trevor Vittatoe.

    I wanna cry.... :(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,966 ✭✭✭Syferus


    The Colts have an interesting decision to make at QB, which'll be the #2 from Orlofsky and Painter. Orlofsky actually looked like a serviceable back-up once he got used to the system.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,369 ✭✭✭UnitedIrishman


    Syferus wrote: »
    The Colts have an interesting decision to make at QB, which'll be the #2 from Orlofsky and Painter. Orlofsky actually looked like a serviceable back-up once he got used to the system.

    That's like asking in which leg you wish to be stabbed!


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