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It is announced that Ireland WILL hold referendum on EU fiscal compact treaty

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    #272
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    If Greece continues to get funding there's zero chance of them pulling funding from us. That won't happen.
    That's a pretty risky premise to be basing your decisions on.


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    #273
    Anita Blow
    Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭Anita Blow


    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    Why should we value our sovereignty? The only thing we've shown is that we are completely incapable of using it properly.
    You're right. We should take away the right to self-determination if it can't be used properly. :rolleyes:


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    #274
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,568 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Anita Blow wrote: »
    I don't see why we should be asked again. This is an opt-in treaty so us voting no doesn't mean anything to other countries. They can continue ahead with it as normal.

    Indeed.


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    #275
    quietriot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 347 ✭✭quietriot


    Anita Blow wrote: »
    I'm sure the exact same could be said about others urging a yes vote.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm equally against those voting no for completely irrelevant reasons, but don't tar everyone with the same brush. I'm voting no based on my concerns for our fiscal independence which is a perfectly valid concern.

    I voted yes to Lisbon, after having read the text. The majority of people I met who were also voting Yes had also read the text. The majority, and by that i mean almost all, of those I met who voted no either hadn't read the text or we're voting out of pure spite and unrelated issues they had with the government or Europe.
    Chucky the tree wrote: »
    Why should we value our sovereignty? The only thing we've shown is that we are completely incapable of using it properly.

    Absolutely.

    Ireland will lose its sovereignty one way or another anyway.


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    #276
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    dvpower wrote: »
    That's a pretty risky premise to be basing your decisions on.

    That's a fact and you know it.

    If Ireland was allowed to fail, the whole euro project fails and that would trigger a worldwide financial disaster.


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    #277
    Stinicker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,102 ✭✭✭Stinicker


    Fianna Fail favours a yes vote, thats enough for me to Vote No to it. Anything those traitors are in favor of can only hurt Ireland further. I would like to thank President Higgins for threatening to unsurp Government and thus forcing this to a referendum. A man of integrity and I am proud to have him as President, bagman would probably have asked for a few bob to sign it into law. If Higgins was Prez back in '08 he would not have signed the banking guarantee to bailout the cronies of Fianna Fail unlike that other traitor Mary McAleese.


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    #278
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    If Ireland was allowed to fail, the whole euro project fails and that would trigger a worldwide financial disaster.
    I'm afraid we're just not that important.


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    #279
    _Gawd_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 410 ✭✭_Gawd_


    dvpower wrote: »
    Our funding is guaranteed under the bailout programme. Our funding is in doubt if we reject the fiscal compact.

    ESM funding is specifically contingent on accepting the fiscal compact.

    Its possible that other options would be open to us if we reject the compact, but we would be taking a leap into the unknown - something that is likely to be damaging.

    The only thing that is damaging is your fear of economic freedom.


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    #280
    TheSpecialOne
    Registered Users Posts: 695 ✭✭✭TheSpecialOne


    If this is enacted will it still be possible for Germany,France to use their power to avoid the consequences of being over 3% limit like they have done previously?


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    #281
    Doc Ruby
    Registered Users Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭Doc Ruby


    quietriot wrote: »
    I voted yes to Lisbon, after having read the text. The majority of people I met who were also voting Yes had also read the text.
    Eh what? Professional lawyers had read the text and declared it was next door to incomprehensible. This treaty is a quick read, on the other hand.
    quietriot wrote: »
    Ireland will lose its sovereignty one way or another anyway.
    Heh, thats not how it works. You lose your sovereignty when another country invades and overthrows your government, when the flags flying are no longer your own, when foreign troops patrol your streets without getting their heads removed.

    Its always a great laugh hearing people go on about sovereignty.


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    #282
    Da Shins Kelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,048 ✭✭✭Da Shins Kelly


    Just no.


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    #283
    TheSpecialOne
    Registered Users Posts: 695 ✭✭✭TheSpecialOne


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    If Ireland was allowed to fail, the whole euro project fails and that would trigger a worldwide financial disaster.

    Massieve Lie....IMF may be called into question as we are the 'Golden Child' of their programme and their Policies would have lead us to failure. Ireland is in a great position as the IMF and Europe need us to come through this for their own legitimacy. But if we don't the world would not collapse as you suggest.


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    #284
    gerryo777
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭gerryo777


    dvpower wrote: »
    I'm afraid we're just not that important.

    I think you'll find that we are!


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    #285
    Ferrakins
    Registered Users Posts: 37 ✭Ferrakins


    yes to lisbon, yes to jobs, webelong



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    #286
    quietriot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 347 ✭✭quietriot


    Doc Ruby wrote: »
    Its always a great laugh hearing people go on about sovereignty.

    Yes, especially when they're wrong, like you are now.


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    #287
    BackScrub
    Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭BackScrub


    Why I will vote no:

    1. I simply cannot agree with anything a numpty like Lucinda Cretin would say is good for me.

    2. Is this even legal? It's not an EU treaty as far as I can see, just a rabble of German-led countries forming an agreement.

    3. If you think austerity is harsh now, imagine the pain of maintaining a 3% debt ratio without the proceeds from an out-of-control housing market rolling in.

    4. A yes vote would mean an attack on our corporation tax rate IMO, although they would call it harmonisation. Bye, bye future jobs.

    5. I'm fundamentally anti-EU. We're being driven to the depths of poverty by corporate and banking elites. This is fascism without having to go the trouble of having a war. Economic terrorism and propaganda is far more cost effective.

    6. Just to be clear, Lucinda Cretin is a numpty and anyone who saw fit to vote for her should have a long look in the mirror.

    7. Watching a clown like Enda Kenny being the top boy in class with European leaders with that stupid smirk of his makes my blood boil. They admire and respect us my ass.

    8. Lucinda Cretin ##%**^!!+£**# ffs


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    #288
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    gerryo777 wrote: »
    I think you'll find that we are!
    Oh no we're .... nevermind.


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    #289
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    BackScrub wrote: »
    3. If you think austerity is harsh now, imagine the pain of maintaining a 3% debt ratio without the proceeds from an out-of-control housing market rolling in.

    LOLwut? You realise a no vote would mean an immediate 0% deficit yeah?


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    #290
    BackScrub
    Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭BackScrub


    amacachi wrote: »
    LOLwut? You realise a no vote would mean an immediate 0% deficit yeah?

    I bet it wouldn't. You're believing the propoganda already.


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    #291
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    BackScrub wrote: »
    I bet it wouldn't. You're believing the propoganda already.

    Where would the money come from so?


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    #292
    BackScrub
    Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭BackScrub


    amacachi wrote: »
    Where would the money come from so?

    We have a binding agreement with the troika. A non-EU treaty like this won't change that.


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    #293
    coadyd
    Registered Users Posts: 122 ✭✭coadyd


    there only giving us a referendum because they know :mad: it only take 12 EU nations to agree to it to pass it into European law . So what we vote does not matter .


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    #294
    quietriot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 347 ✭✭quietriot


    amacachi wrote: »
    Where would the money come from so?
    I have to admit, I'm having a chuckle over you thinking it's a good idea to ask questions despite having read the incoherent rambling above.


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    #295
    lucylu
    Registered Users Posts: 2,111 ✭✭✭lucylu


    amacachi wrote: »
    Where would the money come from so?

    o snodaigh is printing it as we speak


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    #296
    _Gawd_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 410 ✭✭_Gawd_


    amacachi wrote: »
    Where would the money come from so?

    Look, the problem is that we do not have a free market banking system. Do you know how banks work? And if so, what blinds you from the fact that it is not to the benefit of the common man? There are fundamental problems we have here in Ireland but I'm confident we can make decisions on our own instead of throwing ourselves in with these massive countries who regard us as an after-thought. I for one certainly do NOT want to sign up to further authoritarianism and a loss of our economic decision-making abilities. You would do well to do the same if you knew whats good for you. At least do it for the sake of your kids.


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    #297
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    quietriot wrote: »
    I have to admit, I'm having a chuckle over you thinking it's a good idea to ask questions despite having read the incoherent rambling above.
    I'm bored, what can I say.
    BackScrub wrote: »
    We have a binding agreement with the troika. A non-EU treaty like this won't change that.
    Much of which comes from the ESM if I'm not mistaken. All this treaty does is prevent us from getting in such situations in the future. The 3% thing won't be effective immediately.


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    #298
    Doc Ruby
    Registered Users Posts: 3,956 ✭✭✭Doc Ruby


    quietriot wrote: »
    Yes, especially when they're wrong, like you are now.
    Good comeback. Sovereign power laddie, look it up.

    Ireland is quite capable of doing exactly whatever it wants, up to and including telling the banks to get knotted and there's not a thing they can do about it. The effects of that might not be the most pleasant (then again look at Iceland) but its an option.

    Short of a literal invasion we remain within the boundaries of treaties and agreements of our own free will.


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    #299
    Akrasia
    Registered Users Posts: 22,235 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    amacachi wrote: »
    BackScrub wrote: »
    I bet it wouldn't. You're believing the propoganda already.

    Where would the money come from so?
    Why on earth would we vote to install a slash and burn economic manifesto directly into our constitution?
    The agreement provides no mechanism for growth and worse still, doesn't even provide a protection against future economic collapse. Ireland could have happily stayed within a 3% deficit while the banks lent recklessly and overheardd the economy.


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    #300
    _Gawd_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 410 ✭✭_Gawd_


    amacachi wrote: »
    Much of which comes from the ESM if I'm not mistaken. All this treaty does is prevent us from getting in such situations in the future. The 3% thing won't be effective immediately.

    No, it does not.

    More government is NOT the answer - we need less government. Why would you sign up to something to make sure it doesn't happen again when the very people you're signing up with are the one's that created this mess in the first place? You're putting the foxes in charge of the henhouse! If we reduce the power and scope of our government on this island, they won't have the ability to hurt us or make bad decisions that can effect us again in the future. It's the exact same outcome, minus the bureaucracy.


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    #301
    BackScrub
    Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭BackScrub


    quietriot wrote: »
    I have to admit, I'm having a chuckle over you thinking it's a good idea to ask questions despite having read the incoherent rambling above.

    You may consider it an incoherent ramble, good luck to you.

    I simply outlined a few of my reasons for voting no. Why don't you contribute meaningfully by outlining your reasons for your vote?


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