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M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning decision pending]

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    #572
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,963 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    That Barna-Rosaveel road looks like a monster. A completely new build regional all the way out to the Carraroe peninsula? With the terrain, wouldn't that be a challenge?


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    #573
    tharlear
    Registered Users Posts: 130 ✭✭tharlear


    That Barna-Rosaveel road looks like a monster. A completely new build regional all the way out to the Carraroe peninsula? With the terrain, wouldn't that be a challenge?

    Yes it will be very challenging to avoid all the "special" cottons, snails, grasses and I'm assuming the special rocks one would have to build over. Do that and stay out of sight of the local nymbies, while not effecting "natural" landscapes.

    Anyway who needs to drive on a good road in western galway. It part of our culture driving on bad roads. Look at the complaints against straightening the kerry ring road.

    I think newt's moon base has less hurdles to clear.


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    #574
    dee2dee
    Registered Users Posts: 13 ✭dee2dee


    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0220/1224312052756.html

    Minister abandons car in Galway gridlockMon, Feb 20, 2012


    Minister for Health Dr James Reilly was forced to abandon his car and walk across Galway city due to traffic gridlock. He was en route to Galway University Hospital for a meeting with the new chief executive Bill Maher, and was two hours late as a result of the delays on Friday afternoon.


    The AA reported that the delays were due to an incident at the Bodkin Roundabout on the Headford Road junction.


    HSE West chairman Cllr Pádraig Conneely (FG) said there had been no contingencies in place: “Nobody knew what was happening, which caused a lot of difficulty.”


  • Options
    #575
    GalwayMagpie
    Registered Users Posts: 163 ✭✭GalwayMagpie


    dee2dee wrote: »
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0220/1224312052756.html

    Minister abandons car in Galway gridlockMon, Feb 20, 2012


    Minister for Health Dr James Reilly was forced to abandon his car and walk across Galway city due to traffic gridlock. He was en route to Galway University Hospital for a meeting with the new chief executive Bill Maher, and was two hours late as a result of the delays on Friday afternoon.


    The AA reported that the delays were due to an incident at the Bodkin Roundabout on the Headford Road junction.


    HSE West chairman Cllr Pádraig Conneely (FG) said there had been no contingencies in place: “Nobody knew what was happening, which caused a lot of difficulty.”

    I considered it myself


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    #576
    Irish and Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Irish and Proud


    dee2dee wrote: »
    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0220/1224312052756.html

    Minister abandons car in Galway gridlockMon, Feb 20, 2012


    Minister for Health Dr James Reilly was forced to abandon his car and walk across Galway city due to traffic gridlock. He was en route to Galway University Hospital for a meeting with the new chief executive Bill Maher, and was two hours late as a result of the delays on Friday afternoon.


    The AA reported that the delays were due to an incident at the Bodkin Roundabout on the Headford Road junction.


    HSE West chairman Cllr Pádraig Conneely (FG) said there had been no contingencies in place: “Nobody knew what was happening, which caused a lot of difficulty.”

    ...might help to inject some political urgency into the GCOB, now that politicians are starting to see (and indeed, feel) the reality of Galway traffic!!! :D


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    #577
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    It might have helped the Minister for Health to appreciate the value of walking.


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    #578
    Irish and Proud
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭Irish and Proud


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    It might have helped the Minister for Health to appreciate the value of walking.

    Having read some of your posts, you come across as rather anti-car or anti road. Of course, you're entitled to that viewpoint, but I'd like to make the following point:

    'I know all about the value of walking, public transport and driving - and I used to cycle an awful lot too. All of these modes have very good uses. As a cyclist, the main problem was the wind and aggressive dogs. When it comes to walking, I certainly know all about it - I love it and a lot of the walks I do wouldn't be practical without my newly acquired car (a modest Micra). For years, I tried to get away without having to pay for a car, but it was simply far too limiting to go on that way. As far as I'm concerned, the powers that be had their chance to convince me not to have a car - they failed miserably!'

    I don't mean to tell you what to do, but I'd suggest if for example, you want to promote cycling, you should get on to the local authorities about potholes, and any campaign you have should particularly focus on aggressive dogs that are being let out on the road in rural areas - this is totally unfair to pedestrians and cyclists and AFAIK is against the law - this was a major deterrent for me as a cyclist. Many NRA traffic calming schemes seemed totally anti cyclist by making the roads too narrow - Julianstown in Co Meath is a prime example. That particular traffic calming scheme reminds me to slow down as a motorist, but as a cyclist, it made me think twice about going through there again - I actually lodged a complaint (as a cyclist) to the NRA. When there was no motorway in the area, the rat runners avoiding Balbriggan simply ran me off the road (road narrowness was no deterrent against speed) and motorist aggression in the area was far worse then.

    What I'm really saying is that to simply not build any more roads is not the answer (1990's thinking IMO) - neither do I think the answer is to be found by simply providing more roads (1980's thinking) - we need a new rational managed and integrated approach to transport planning in the country - even the cycle manual (that I have major reservations about) states clearly that bypasses around urban areas are required as part of the national cycle strategy. Bear in mind that I'm also very conscious of the environment and that I very much regard same in the proposal of new roads.

    For example, I'm going to suggest a new road link to the M1 in my area, but I'm also going to suggest that weight limits should applied to many existing country roads (except those with permits) and that the same roads should not require widening with the new road in operation. I will also suggest that the existing town/village centre should be made a lot more pedestrian/cyclist friendly in the aftermath. The new road should also make public transport a lot more viable (many private buses go into town via the M1 and Port Tunnel). Last, but not least, the new road will considerably shorten car journeys which should result in much less emissions, less wear and less hazard to local residents. Now, that to me is an example of integrated transport thinking that we need for the 21st century.

    Regards!


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    #579
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,765 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    It might have helped the Minister for Health to appreciate the value of walking.

    I'm not sure that walking to UCHG from Dublin is particularly practical...


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    #580
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    I wonder how many consultants were trapped over in the Clinic doing private work when they should have been in UCHG with their patients.

    Remember when you are seriously ill and need to get to a hospital on the WRONG side of Galway it is all your own fault for not cycling there. :(

    http://www.galwaynews.ie/24371-traffic-gridlock-forces-city-come-standstill
    Traffic gridlock forces city to come to a standstill
    February 21, 2012 - 7:00am
    Health Minister forced to abandon car and walk to hospital meeting

    After being stuck in his ministerial car for nearly two hours on the edge of the city, Minister Reilly, alighted from his vehicle at the Menlo Park Hotel Roundabout at around 5.30pm and walked to the hospital.

    He had been due to meet the new CEO of UHG, Bill Maher, at 4pm but the official car got clogged up in one of the city’s notorious traffic jams on the Tuam Road shortly after 3.30pm.

    Two hours later, the traffic was jammed solid at the Menlo Park Hotel Roundabout and Minister Reilly, along with his secretary, walked to the hospital where they arrived at 6pm – two hours behind schedule.

    The Minister had also hoped to make a ‘drop in’ visit to the Galway Hospice on the Dublin Road later on Friday evening, but this had to be abandoned because of the delay.

    There were also reports of key medical personnel not being able to travel between Merlin Park and UHG on Friday because of the traffic snarl-up that went on from mid-day until after 6pm.

    I would have thought the gridlock only went on from 2-6pm myself. Seemed OK at 12. Remember this was caused by a funeral and a small tip.


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    #581
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    MYOB wrote: »
    I'm not sure that walking to UCHG from Dublin is particularly practical...



    The minister wasn't stuck on the M6. This was a case of being caught in traffic in a city centre area.

    He used his brain, and his legs, got out of the car and walked a reasonable distance rather than sit inside it grumbling and moaning pointlessly about being stuck in traffic.

    It's farcical, IMO, how often you hear and read complaints in Galway from motorists moaning about being stuck in acute traffic congestion for hours to travel a distance that could be walked in far less time. Then they go back and do the same thing the next day.

    Hereabouts, of course, this perspective is interpreted as being anti-car and anti-road, whereas as I see it as a simple case of common sense.

    When I walk I don't complain about traffic congestion, because there is no such thing for pedestrians. When I drive I don't moan about traffic congestion because I am contributing to it.


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    #582
    veryangryman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,533 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    And what about commuters from Athenry, Craughwell etc who work on West Side. Or vice versa?

    Most of the decent jobs in Galway are on the outskirts and surprise surprise you need a car as the public transport is dire. Yes you can bike it but thats not an option for everybody. Point is the place is light years behind Limerick, Cork, Waterford and Dublin in terms of

    Public transport
    Bypasses/Ring roads
    Facilities for pedestrians/cyclists (ever had to walk from galway SC to Terryland Park for example - taking life into own hands)
    Water - dont get me started.

    I could go on


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    #583
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    Irish and Proud wrote: »
    Having read some of your posts, you come across as rather anti-car or anti road. Of course, you're entitled to that viewpoint, but I'd like to make the following point:

    'I know all about the value of walking, public transport and driving - and I used to cycle an awful lot too. All of these modes have very good uses. As a cyclist, the main problem was the wind and aggressive dogs. When it comes to walking, I certainly know all about it - I love it and a lot of the walks I do wouldn't be practical without my newly acquired car (a modest Micra). For years, I tried to get away without having to pay for a car, but it was simply far too limiting to go on that way. As far as I'm concerned, the powers that be had their chance to convince me not to have a car - they failed miserably!'

    I don't mean to tell you what to do, but I'd suggest if for example, you want to promote cycling, you should get on to the local authorities about potholes, and any campaign you have should particularly focus on aggressive dogs that are being let out on the road in rural areas - this is totally unfair to pedestrians and cyclists and AFAIK is against the law - this was a major deterrent for me as a cyclist. Many NRA traffic calming schemes seemed totally anti cyclist by making the roads too narrow - Julianstown in Co Meath is a prime example. That particular traffic calming scheme reminds me to slow down as a motorist, but as a cyclist, it made me think twice about going through there again - I actually lodged a complaint (as a cyclist) to the NRA. When there was no motorway in the area, the rat runners avoiding Balbriggan simply ran me off the road (road narrowness was no deterrent against speed) and motorist aggression in the area was far worse then.

    What I'm really saying is that to simply not build any more roads is not the answer (1990's thinking IMO) - neither do I think the answer is to be found by simply providing more roads (1980's thinking) - we need a new rational managed and integrated approach to transport planning in the country - even the cycle manual (that I have major reservations about) states clearly that bypasses around urban areas are required as part of the national cycle strategy. Bear in mind that I'm also very conscious of the environment and that I very much regard same in the proposal of new roads.

    For example, I'm going to suggest a new road link to the M1 in my area, but I'm also going to suggest that weight limits should applied to many existing country roads (except those with permits) and that the same roads should not require widening with the new road in operation. I will also suggest that the existing town/village centre should be made a lot more pedestrian/cyclist friendly in the aftermath. The new road should also make public transport a lot more viable (many private buses go into town via the M1 and Port Tunnel). Last, but not least, the new road will considerably shorten car journeys which should result in much less emissions, less wear and less hazard to local residents. Now, that to me is an example of integrated transport thinking that we need for the 21st century.

    Regards!



    I drive a car and I drive it on roads. Make of that what you will.

    The rest of your long post makes a lot of valid points that I would not dispute. As it happens I lobby the local authority and other state agencies on these issues regularly.

    The dog problem is a new one on me, but then I never cycled regularly on rural roads. Uncontrolled dogs is just another example, IMO, of our Irish ways with regard to law and order, and that includes enforcers and citizenry. But sure we're great "craic".


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    #584
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    I wonder how many consultants were trapped over in the Clinic doing private work when they should have been in UCHG with their patients.

    Remember when you are seriously ill and need to get to a hospital on the WRONG side of Galway it is all your own fault for not cycling there. :(




    I know a doctor who worked in that clinic who tried to cycle there every day from the Knocknacarra area.

    An accomplished sportsman before his medical career took off, he was not short of either confidence or physical fitness.

    But he had to give up cycling to work. Why? Because of the number of dangerous roundabouts that he had to deal with on the route.


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    #585
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    I know a doctor who worked in that clinic who tried to cycle there every day from the Knocknacarra area.

    An accomplished sportsman before his medical career took off, he was not short of either confidence or physical fitness.

    But he had to give up cycling to work. Why? Because of the number of dangerous roundabouts that he had to deal with on the route.

    What unsafe roundabouts?

    I spent about 10 years cycling to work and college through some or all of the Briarhill (lynch), Ballybane & Tuam Rd (font & morris), Cemetery cross & Headford rd (bodkin) roundabouts, all of which you have described as dangerous in various threads.

    I didn't find them dangerous.

    What I did see was cyclists causing their own problems by not moving in a timely manner, not being in the correct gear when stopped (a big problem in preventing you from moving off), not signaling correctly if at all, not watching where they were going and generally acting with a persecution complex.

    Personally I can't understand how any cyclist in galway has a problem with a roundabout because no car can catch me over the first 40 yards, which is enough time to get past the first exit and most of the way to the second exit before a car can come level with me.
    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    The dog problem is a new one on me, but then I never cycled regularly on rural roads. Uncontrolled dogs is just another example, IMO, of our Irish ways with regard to law and order, and that includes enforcers and citizenry. But sure we're great "craic".

    You haven't cycled much in the city then either because it was a once a week occurrence for me when cycling to the college.


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    #586
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Can we get back to the bypass now.


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    #587
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,963 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Irish and Proud wrote: »
    ...might help to inject some political urgency into the GCOB, now that politicians are starting to see (and indeed, feel) the reality of Galway traffic!!! :D
    Indeed the bypass should be the next PPP after M17/M18, it's more important than the M20 and Enniscorthy.


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    #588
    JupiterKid
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    I agree that the GCOB should be a priority in terms of roads but it's regrettable that it has come to this - that a very small city of Galway's size should have such appalling traffic congestion.

    I lay the blame on piss poor planning policies over the past 30 years that turned Galway from a relatively compact city into a vast suburban sprawl where the spatial mismatch of housing and employment functions has led to the city's road system being unable to cope with car traffic.

    Along with Limerick city which is seeing its core die due to the city being unable to expand its boundaries and the wanton recklessness of Limerick county council in granting permission to unsustainable retail developments just outside the city boundaries - Galway must also be held up as an example of how not to allow a city to develop. And in Galway's case, the excuse of conflicts between the city and county local authorities doesn't wash given Galway city's extensive boundaries.


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    #589
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    JupiterKid wrote: »

    I lay the blame on piss poor planning policies over the past 30 years that turned Galway from a relatively compact city into a vast suburban sprawl where the spatial mismatch of housing and employment functions has led to the city's road system being unable to cope with car traffic.

    A little bit of realism please, we're not talking about massive distances from the sqaure to either Briarhill on one side or Koncknacara on the other (and there is farmland within the city boundaries). It's certainly nothing like the scale of the sprawl that has happened in Dublin (where Galway would fit into the north east corner of the city).

    It should also be pointed out that planning for this road started the late 90s (I think after the NRA published the roads needs study), so the necessity of this road isn't a new concept (despite what some might have us think).


    For anybody who thinks GCOB is a bad idea I invite you to take a look at the picture below (which I have posted before).

    The real problem with the situation in Galway is that all the traffic is being forced into into one small area, the Galway Triangle (copyright me, 2011) is a bad idea.

    181739.jpg

    All roads from the East of Galway lead to one of the 4 junctions within this triangle. It is almost impossible to avoid them if you are attempting to get
    a) into the center of town
    or
    b) across the river

    Simple logistics dictate that this will eventually become a choke point.


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    #590
    what_traffic
    Registered Users Posts: 4,873 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    antoobrien wrote: »
    You haven't cycled much in the city then either because it was a once a week occurrence for me when cycling to the college.

    Did you look like a cat during your college years?


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    #591
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    antoobrien wrote: »
    A little bit of realism please, we're not talking about massive distances from the sqaure to either Briarhill on one side or Koncknacara on the other (and there is farmland within the city boundaries). It's certainly nothing like the scale of the sprawl that has happened in Dublin (where Galway would fit into the north east corner of the city).

    It should also be pointed out that planning for this road started the late 90s (I think after the NRA published the roads needs study), so the necessity of this road isn't a new concept (despite what some might have us think).


    For anybody who thinks GCOB is a bad idea I invite you to take a look at the picture below (which I have posted before).

    The real problem with the situation in Galway is that all the traffic is being forced into into one small area, the Galway Triangle (copyright me, 2011) is a bad idea.

    https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/158921/181739.jpg

    All roads from the East of Galway lead to one of the 4 junctions within this triangle. It is almost impossible to avoid them if you are attempting to get
    a) into the center of town
    or
    b) across the river

    Simple logistics dictate that this will eventually become a choke point.




    I agree that the word "vast" is a bit of an exaggeration.

    Which is why so many car trips in Galway City are mode switchable, incidentally.

    As for words such as "traffic", "forced", "impossible" and "avoid", well it depends on what you mean. And on your mode of travel perhaps...


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    #592
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    Which is why so many car trips in Galway City are mode switchable, incidentally.

    The switching argument is fallacy. As the crow files my house is 4km from eyre square but 6km by roads - it's not feasible to walk a straight line for more than a few hundred yards underminidng the "walking radius" arguments that you make.

    There are also health problems to take into consideration e.g. due to ankle & knee problems I can't walk any more than 3 kms on hard surfaces (paths) without causing pain and swelling.

    There are practical issues, after all it isn't feasible to carry a lot of equipment while cycling (I'm thinking my golf clubs if I'm trying to get to Galway golf club, my brother's plumbing supplies, the egos of anybody attached to an tasice, o.g. or the galway cycling campaign).
    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    As for words such as "traffic", "forced", "impossible" and "avoid", well it depends on what you mean. And on your mode of travel perhaps...

    All modes of transport attempting to get to either the city center or west of Galway must pass through the junctions in question, as every Galway person knows. Unless of course you're suggesting that people disregard the law and just drive/walk/cycle where they please.

    I'm going to do the world a favour report your previous post as saopboxing (which is against the charter if you've read it).


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    #593
    dubhthach
    Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    MOD

    Folks the thread is suppose to be about a specific infrastructure project, namely the GCOB. Keep on topic, discussion bout commuting experiences is best kept in the relevant forum


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    #594
    JupiterKid
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    For a city of Galway's population - 75,000 - its footprint is huge. I can't understand why more places of employment couldn't be located closer to or in the centre of the city which would have the greatest degree of accessibility for people availing of public transport.

    I agree that the road system to the city's east is too concentrated in a "Galway Triangle" of congestion as another poster put it - but the mismatch between the residential areas and the places of employment coupled with very high rates of car dependency and an epidemic of one-off housing in the city's hinterland make for a city with intolerable traffic congestion. The GBOB is badly needed but so is sound planning policy where the centre of the city is reinforced, not undermined.

    The GCOB is needed but so is a way forward to halt and reverse to sprawl that has caused much of the traffic problems in Galway. GCOB should be a part of a wider strategy on land use planning and transportation - you just can't have a coherent policy on one without the other.


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    #595
    yermanoffthetv
    Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭yermanoffthetv


    JupiterKid wrote: »
    For a city of Galway's population - 75,000 - its footprint is huge. I can't understand why more places of employment couldn't be located closer to or in the centre of the city which would have the greatest degree of accessibility for people availing of public transport

    Rents,Planning permission,historical preservation restrictions-take your pick.


    Heres a brainfart of an idea. Get the Chinese to build the GCOB with Chinese labour (cheap) and let them stick a toll on it for 25 years. Government could offer bond swaps as a form of partial payment.

    ...I await your tirade of abuse with gusto :pac:


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    #596
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,765 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    The minister wasn't stuck on the M6. This was a case of being caught in traffic in a city centre area.

    Its illegal to park on the M6 and walk (again on the M6) towards the city.


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    #597
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    MYOB wrote: »
    Its illegal to park on the M6 and walk (again on the M6) towards the city.

    The M6 stops near Oranmore at the N18 junction, east of the airport. It's possible to stop and park on the N6 west of this.


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    #598
    antoobrien
    Registered Users Posts: 6,106 ✭✭✭antoobrien


    Carawaystick wrote: »
    The M6 stops near Oranmore at the N18 junction, east of the airport. It's possible to stop and park on the N6 west of this.

    Still not part of the M6 and it's a bloody long walk or cycle to UCHG from Oranmore (I should know because I used to cycle from briarhill to NUIG)


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    #599
    Nok1a
    Closed Accounts Posts: 76 ✭✭Nok1a


    Iwannahurl wrote: »
    bla bla bla


    Why is this poster allowed to turn every single thread either in the galway forum or the infrastructure forum which mentions the word traffic off topic with his narrow minded ramblings about how people in cars should be lined up and shot. His off the walls theories simply do not work in this country due to years of poor planning(roads, housing) and poor public transport investment, and continuing to regurgitate the same crap that cycling everywhere is the solution is just p1ssing everyone off


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    #600
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    antoobrien wrote: »
    ...the Galway Triangle (copyright me, 2011)...

    antoobrien wrote: »
    I'm going to do the world a favour report your previous post as saopboxing (which is against the charter if you've read it).




    Boards.ie: facilitating the use of soap products since 2000. :)





    Newsflash: Irish health minister's ground-breaking half-hour walk creates tremors in New Zealand: http://topnews.net.nz/content/221349-traffic-bedlam-forces-reilly-leave-car



    .


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    #601
    Iwannahurl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,156 ✭✭✭Iwannahurl


    On a more serious note, I have tried to find newsworthy material on the GCOB but there is little or nothing to be found. A recent opinion piece in the City Tribune was just a filler, I reckon.

    The recent announcement about a Regional Cities Programme, doesn't seem to be mentioned on any official website so it's difficult to say how it will relate to any plans predicated on the GCOB as a core piece of infrastructure.


This discussion has been closed.
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