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"Leap" into the unknown: The feedback thread

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 520 ✭✭✭dpe


    Is the intention to get everyone using these cards in the long run a la Oyster card? If so they're going to need to give substantially better discounts than their current offer. I can buy a 7-day DART ticket for less (even after the price rise), so it all seems a bit pointless at the moment.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭markpb


    dpe wrote: »
    Is the intention to get everyone using these cards in the long run a la Oyster card? If so they're going to need to give substantially better discounts than their current offer. I can buy a 7-day DART ticket for less (even after the price rise), so it all seems a bit pointless at the moment.

    It's just a cash card at the moment so comparing it with prepaid 7 day tickets is like comparing apples and oranges. Prepaid tickets and daily and weekly capping (so you don't need to make a conscience decision to buy the ticket) will all be provided soon.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,163 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    dpe wrote: »
    Is the intention to get everyone using these cards in the long run a la Oyster card? If so they're going to need to give substantially better discounts than their current offer. I can buy a 7-day DART ticket for less (even after the price rise), so it all seems a bit pointless at the moment.

    The goal would be to move everyone off of cash.

    That can either be Leap e-purse our other multi-day tickets.

    From later this year, multi day tickets will be loadable on the Leap card.


  • Registered Users Posts: 103 ✭✭Conor J


    Aard wrote: »
    Another couple things about the site. The title of the homepage is "leapcard.ie. Web Portal Home". This seems like something that was used before the site went public. It should be something simpler like "Leap Card - Home" or similar.

    Second is that there is no link to fares from the homepage. Seeing as the whole point of Leap is to offer 'integrated' (read: not actually integrated yet) fares, you'd think it imperative to include the fares list at most one click away. I had to click around a bit before I found it; there is no intuitive route, and I wouldn't exactly be net-illiterate.

    They also need to redirect non www pages to resolve to www

    leapcard.ie - not found
    www.leapcard.ie - found.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 951 ✭✭✭robd


    Conor J wrote: »
    They also need to redirect non www pages to resolve to www

    leapcard.ie - not found
    www.leapcard.ie - found.

    After many many complaints this now seems to be working as of today.

    Anyone who's found the fault with this already, will of course need to wait for their local DNS cache to clear/update.
    Server: auth01.ns.eircom.net
    Address: 159.134.237.61#53

    Name: leapcard.ie
    Address: 149.250.244.35


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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,163 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    robd wrote: »
    After many many complaints this now seems to be working as of today.

    Anyone who's found the fault with this already, will of course need to wait for their local DNS cache to clear/update.

    Oh Christ, they have only partly fixed it!!

    http://leapcard.ie now redirects to https://leapcard.ie

    However the browser then gives you a big scary security warning due to an invalid SSL cert. Basically the SSL cert is only valid for https://www.leapcard.ie and not https://leapcard.ie

    Sigh!!

    The quick and easy fix for this is to make the redirect from http://leapcard.ie and https://leapcard.ie to point at http://www.leapcard.ie

    BTW while there are it, the NTA also seem to own the domain www.leapcard.com, which currently goes nowhere. www.leapcard.com and leapcard.com should also redirect to https://www.leapcard.ie

    So, now where do I send the bill for my consultancy fees? :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    bk wrote: »
    Oh Christ, they have only partly fixed it!!

    http://leapcard.ie now redirects to https://leapcard.ie

    However the browser then gives you a big scary security warning due to an invalid SSL cert. Basically the SSL cert is only valid for https://www.leapcard.ie and not https://leapcard.ie

    Sigh!!

    The quick and easy fix for this is to make the redirect from http://leapcard.ie and https://leapcard.ie to point at http://www.leapcard.ie

    BTW while there are it, the NTA also seem to own the domain www.leapcard.com, which currently goes nowhere. www.leapcard.com and leapcard.com should also redirect to https://www.leapcard.ie

    So, now where do I send the bill for my consultancy fees? :D
    Sent them an email on this issue yesterday so they must have read it and got a child in to sort out the mess:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭Stevek101


    markpb wrote: »
    It's just a cash card at the moment so comparing it with prepaid 7 day tickets is like comparing apples and oranges. Prepaid tickets and daily and weekly capping (so you don't need to make a conscience decision to buy the ticket) will all be provided soon.
    bk wrote: »
    The goal would be to move everyone off of cash.

    That can either be Leap e-purse our other multi-day tickets.

    From later this year, multi day tickets will be loadable on the Leap card.

    Any idea when they plan to launch this for DB lads?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭Coriolanus


    Suspiciously, the travel 90 cards have disappeared in the cc. Was in five newsagent in the last half hour. Ended up with a 5 day rambler which is still cheaper.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,582 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    Nevore wrote: »
    Suspiciously, the travel 90 cards have disappeared in the cc. Was in five newsagent in the last half hour. Ended up with a 5 day rambler which is still cheaper.

    You'd probably end up buying the travel 90's within the leap card in the future. The crowd at leap card wouldn't give too much detail on how they do that.

    But, of course as people would say, ''the devil is in the detail''.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    If I don't put in the www, I get this message:

    "leapcard.ie uses an invalid security certificate.
    The certificate is only valid for www.leapcard.ie
    (Error code: ssl_error_bad_cert_domain)"


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    You'd probably end up buying the travel 90's within the leap card in the future. The crowd at leap card wouldn't give too much detail on how they do that.

    And the Travel 90 ticket will probably cost €2.20 by then. Or €2.40 if they continue along their current path.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭Stevek101


    Aard wrote: »
    And the Travel 90 ticket will probably cost €2.20 by then. Or €2.40 if they continue along their current path.

    A single travel 90 ticket, which to the best of my knowledge can only be found at Dublin Airport has been €2.20 for ages!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Nevore wrote: »
    Suspiciously, the travel 90 cards have disappeared in the cc. Was in five newsagent in the last half hour. Ended up with a 5 day rambler which is still cheaper.
    Were you looking for single tickets? afaik they are only available in books of ten for €19 outside of the airport where they can be bought single for about €2.20


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭Coriolanus


    Was the book of ten I was after, been using them for ages. Three agents on o Connell and two on d'olier(?) had none in stock and weren't sure if they'd be getting more


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    Nevore wrote: »
    Was the book of ten I was after, been using them for ages. Three agents on o Connell and two on d'olier(?) had none in stock and weren't sure if they'd be getting more

    did you try Dublin bus, being on O 'Connell st and all?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    bk wrote: »
    Wouldn't the 123 + 13 been significantly cheaper with a travel 90 then 123 + Luas?
    Probably, but the Luas left me right where I needed to go. The 13 on the other hand, I hadn't the foggiest where it would leave me, just knew it was the general vicinity.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,879 ✭✭✭Coriolanus


    did you try Dublin bus, being on O 'Connell st and all?
    They were closed. :P


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,281 ✭✭✭Stevek101


    Has somebody bought of book of tickets recently? They've been withdrawn for well over a year.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    Stevek101 wrote: »
    Has somebody bought of book of tickets recently? They've been withdrawn for well over a year.
    Travel 90 tickets are still advertised on the Dublin Bus website!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,332 ✭✭✭Mr Simpson


    Stevek101 wrote: »
    Has somebody bought of book of tickets recently? They've been withdrawn for well over a year.

    Travel90 is not a book anymore, just one ticket with ten 90 minute journeys on it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,537 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    TheChrisD wrote: »
    Irish transport websites in general have always had that problem. Dublin Bus didn't work without the www for... how many years?
    It an Irish public sector organisation problem.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 911 ✭✭✭steve-o


    Well, my experience so far is that Leap on the bus has in fact cost me more than cash fares. If I've stated my destination (as you are supposed to) I usually get overcharged, 1.70 instead of 1.25. Anytime I've said "Short" or "Short hop" to the driver, I've just caused confusion. So I've gone back to simply stating my fare "1.25", which leads to the familiar gruff response "where are you going?" together with accusing look to make sure I'm paying the correct fare.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    Very good point Steve-o. It's an issue that will discourage the average punter from using Leap. I call it the "embarrassment" factor; I experienced it for lesser things throughout the initial trial. It's that feeling of holding up the queue, even though it's not your fault.

    That "short/medium/long" bullsh.it is so misleading. Nobody has ever used those terms before, and evidently busdrivers are perplexed by it. But Leap, not content with doubling the number of possible fares, insist on inventing new nomenclature by which to request them!

    What a fcuk up!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,371 ✭✭✭markpb


    Aard wrote: »
    That "short/medium/long" bullsh.it is so misleading. Nobody has ever used those terms before, and evidently busdrivers are perplexed by it. But Leap, not content with doubling the number of possible fares, insist on inventing new nomenclature by which to request them!

    Rubbish. There are plenty of faults with the project without inventing some.

    Firstly, CIE have been using the term Short Hop for years, it's nothing new and not invented by Leap.

    Secondly, Leap have no control over the fares - they're still decided by each operator. If DB want to have two sets of fares, that's their prerogative. If they want to make an ass of the project by over-complicating it and training their drivers badly, that's up to them.

    [1] http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Fares--Tickets/Tickets/2-Journey-Daily-Weekly/Bus--Rail-Tickets/
    [2] http://www.taxsaver.ie/Ticket-Types/Ticket-Validity/Monthly-Rail-Outer-Hop/
    [3] http://www.buseireann.ie/inner.php?id=240


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    I'm talking about using "short/medium/long" on the bus. The Leap info leaflet says to use them. "Short Hop" has never been used on DB.

    My bad on the fares thing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,194 ✭✭✭Corruptedmorals


    I say '1.95. my destination'. What should I be saying- medium? Or is this long because the 2.40 fare isn't done by the driver?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    You just do the same thing as if paying with coins. I only state the fare I know I need to pay.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,711 ✭✭✭keano_afc


    Its probably been answered, but I dont want to go through 42 pages!

    If I get on the bus and use the machine on the right to "touch-on" how much am I automatically charged?

    I'm considering getting a card for work journeys, but wont bother if I end up being charged more than I would for hading over cash.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 649 ✭✭✭K09


    Hi,
    I recently bought the leapcard - €10 incl the €5 deposit.
    I just registered online and the account shows I only have €5 rather than the full €10.

    Does the €5 deposit not count towards credit?

    Thanks.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    No. Deposit cannot be used as credit, as such. However, if you have say €0.10 on your card, and your trip costs €2.40, your balance will be -€2.30. If you top up by €10, you'll have €7.70 credit.

    Deposit is refundable if you wish to return the card, I believe.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 70,172 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    There's an interesting set of titles leapcard.ie allows you to register with:

    "Mr"
    "Mrs"
    "Ms"
    "Sir"

    That's it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    markpb wrote: »
    Secondly, Leap have no control over the fares - they're still decided by each operator.

    There was me thinking leap is the NTA.

    The NTA set the fares, as the pt operators all wanted to increase them by more than the NTA allowed them to.


  • Registered Users Posts: 132 ✭✭carlaboi


    Hi

    Can someone please explain why is it that if you want to top up your card online that you then have to collect it from a load location?? Why cant I top it up online?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    That's been answered about 20 times in this thread. Read back a page or two and it'll all make sense.


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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 23,163 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    -Chris- wrote: »
    That's been answered about 20 times in this thread. Read back a page or two and it'll all make sense.

    And it just shows what a badly implemented feature it is. It causes more confusion then it is worth.

    It works the same way in London, but it works well in London as most people travel on the London Underground, as the London underground is the primary means of transport. Buses are usually just for short filler trips to and from tube stations.

    With Dublin on the other hand, buses are the primary mode of transport, with many people never using LUAS or DART. So the online top up is really a badly thought out feature in Dublin.

    They should have implemented the auto-top service first, which will work on buses.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,815 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    bk wrote: »
    They should have implemented the auto-top service first, which will work on buses.

    I don't think it will work that way either. I can't see how it could work without you at least occasionally going to a shop or online location (shop, luas, DART station or private bus). The problem is that (a) the clearing house needs to realize that you are almost out of credit. If you run below your top-up limit on Monday morning, the clearing house will not know this until Monday night/Tuesday morning. It can then issue the credit, but this will not make its way back to the buses until the next exchange of information between DB and the clearing house, which may not be until Tuesday night/Wednesday morning. If the system decides to wait until the money actually comes in from the direct debit request, it will probably be thursday or Friday by the time the credit is issued. The ticket-issuing device also needs to have enough memory to store the entire whitelist, and I think this may also be an issue.

    But I do not know the detailed architecture for the top-up, so I could be wrong.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,250 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    Thats completely wrong with respect to the logic behind auto topup. The debit of the customers bank account occurs offline after the topup has been done to the card. It will work fine and work instantly on all modes including Dublin Bus.

    It will operate the exact same was as in London http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14838.aspx

    The T&C's go into significant
    3.4 Auto Top-Up - Coming Soon

    (a) The terms and conditions in this section 3.4 shall be binding on any Leap Card customer who avails of the Auto Top-Up facility (when introduced).

    (b) Registered and Personalised Leap Card customers can apply for the Auto Top-Up facility by completing the online application form available at www.leapcard.ie. As part of the application process the Leap Card customer must nominate an account with an accepted payment source (as per sub-section (h) below) from which Auto Top-Ups can be debited (the “Account”).

    (c) The Leap Card customer is responsible for ensuring that the Account information is accurate and up to date and that his/her Account is at all times valid and contains sufficient funds or credit in order to meet deductions by the Authority in accordance with these Terms and Conditions. Leap Card customers can update their Account information Online. Leap Card customers shall inform Leap Card Customer Care immediately of any closure or termination of the Account.

    (d) The Authority will set a minimum Travel Credit balance (the “threshold”) from time to time. With Auto Top-Up, when a Leap Card customer’s Travel Credit balance falls below the threshold, the Leap Card will be automatically reloaded with Leap Card customer’s pre-selected reload value (the “reload value”), and simultaneously an instruction will automatically be sent to debit the reload value from the Account. The initial threshold is set at €15.00.

    (e) During the application for Auto Top-Up, Leap Card customers may designate a reload value (e.g. €20.00, €30.00, €40.00 or €50.00). The Leap Card customer may not change the reload value once Auto Top-Up has been enabled.

    (f) Notwithstanding anything to the contrary herein contained, the Leap Card customer agrees that a minimum period of 7 days must elapse between each Auto Top-Up. The Authority shall not be obliged to top-up an Auto Top-Up enabled Leap Card until after the Leap Card customer’s Account has been successfully debited for any previous Auto Top-Ups.

    (g) The Leap Card customer’s online account will display details of the Auto Top-Up amounts that the Leap Card customer has chosen.

    (h) Auto Top-Up may only be paid for via direct debit payments using the Leap Card customer’s designated current account; Credit card payments will not be accepted as a payment method for Auto Top-Up.

    (i) Leap Card customers may cancel their Auto Top-Up facility Online at any time. The cancellation request only becomes effective when configured on to the Leap Card. Until the Leap Card is configured, the Auto Top-Up remains in place and the Authority will not be liable for any Auto Top-Up prior to configuration. The Leap Card customer will nominate online where the Leap Card will be taken for configuration. Note that currently Leap Card customers are not able to nominate the Validators on Dublin Bus or Bus Éireann for configuration. The Authority will endeavour to ensure that the cancellation request will be available for configuration on to the Leap Card as soon as possible; however, it cannot guarantee that the request will be available sooner than 48 hours after cancellation.

    (j) If an Auto Top-Up instruction for a Leap Card is rejected by a Leap Card customer’s financial institution, the Authority reserves the right to do any or all of the following:

    i. Recover from the Leap Card customer the amount of any rejected transaction plus all costs incurred (including legal costs on a full indemnity basis) by the Authority for the recovery of any such amounts.

    ii. Withdraw the Auto Top-Up facility from the Leap Card customer.

    iii. Suspend the use of the Leap Card for such period as may be determined by the Authority.

    iv. Cancel the Leap Card.

    v. Disqualify the Leap Card customer from applying for any new Auto Top-Up facility for such length of time as may be determined to be appropriate by the Authority.

    vi. Deduct or set-off any monies owing to the Authority from the remaining value and any Deposit in respect of the Leap Card.

    (k) The Authority reserves the right to withdraw the Auto Top-Up facility for all Leap Card customers at its discretion or modify either the reload value or the threshold value.
    https://www.leapcard.ie/PageSetting/ContentViewer.aspx?Val=CG%2fCj953WkPB%2b7fwjkLFshsyP7wecX6fiV0VBn3Q632F20yhboVXGTVmv%2b2bImvcFvyDWv8wk%2bd4E5kAGPCvjpJvBUgOhvVEg%2fB6ZgVyLiI6nLqx13jMpsQIKgDUASmGM793kdSI9FJOtf2oYKBBrP3uRbgVAG0ZGo31awr2Vmg%3d


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,779 ✭✭✭Delta2113


    Can you pay for a "companion" on the Nitelink and if so must you use the drivers validator?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,905 ✭✭✭Aard


    I don't see why not, but that's like €10 in one go! Afaik, you have to get it from the driver's side.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,779 ✭✭✭Delta2113


    And you would get a receipt for €5 (companion)?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,332 ✭✭✭Mr Simpson


    Quick question, if I was to buy a companions ticket with leap, would they pay leap rates or cash rates?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,980 ✭✭✭wyrn


    Finally took the plunge and bought one. Seemed to work fine on the bus. I registered it (why oh why do we need a pin and a password? As for those security questions...) and I checked my history. I wanted to check that I was charged for the correct amount (as some people have complained that they were charged more).

    Anyway, I saw that my trip home wasn't accounted for, is there a delay in your history updating or is it more likely that the card wasn't charged? I remember looking at €10.00 written on the machine but the driver told me that it had gone through and I was charged €1.95. My account just shows that I still have a balance of €10.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,779 ✭✭✭Delta2113


    mmcn90 wrote: »
    Quick question, if I was to buy a companions ticket with leap, would they pay leap rates or cash rates?


    Leap rate.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,582 ✭✭✭dublinman1990


    Aard wrote: »
    I don't see why not, but that's like €10 in one go! Afaik, you have to get it from the driver's side.

    But, it say's here from leap card website.

    On Airlink and Nitelink services you can Touch On at the right hand side validator where the appropriate default fare will be deducted for that service.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,779 ✭✭✭Delta2113


    But, it say's here from leap card website.

    On Airlink and Nitelink services you can Touch On at the right hand side validator where the appropriate default fare will be deducted for that service.


    - if allowed to pay for a companion on Nitelink or Airlink, doing it this way wont give you a receipt for your "companion".


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,250 ✭✭✭goingnowhere


    Delta2113 wrote: »
    Can you pay for a "companion" on the Nitelink and if so must you use the drivers validator?

    You must always use the drivers machine when you need a second or third ticket, where applicable the special 5 euro nitelink, 6 euro airlink fares are available from both driver and right side reader.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,537 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    keano_afc wrote: »
    If I get on the bus and use the machine on the right to "touch-on" how much am I automatically charged?
    €2.40 (€2.65 cash). However, if the fare is different, you need to go to the driver. There are some special fares like Xpresso, outer suburban, etc. where this is different. http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/News-Centre/Travel-News/Revised-Cash-Fares-2012/
    wyrn wrote: »
    Anyway, I saw that my trip home wasn't accounted for, is there a delay in your history updating or is it more likely that the card wasn't charged? I remember looking at €10.00 written on the machine but the driver told me that it had gone through and I was charged €1.95. My account just shows that I still have a balance of €10.
    The back office won't know about your transaction until the bus returns to base and downloads the information. Then the update is done over night.
    Delta2113 wrote: »
    Can you pay for a "companion" on the Nitelink and if so must you use the drivers validator?
    In such a situation you must use the driver's validator. Using the right hand validator twice won't work as each card will only work once in every few minutes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 649 ✭✭✭K09


    foggy_lad wrote: »
    You can buy the credit online but ATM you must go to a shop or luas machine or tag on at an Irish rail machine for that credit to be applied to your card.

    Would it not be much simpler to allow top-up online? I thought it would be possible especially when they ask to register the card.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 951 ✭✭✭robd


    K09 wrote: »
    Would it not be much simpler to allow top-up online? I thought it would be possible especially when they ask to register the card.

    You've largely missed the point of the question. You can top up online already, but as it is a smart card it stores and manages the balance (not the central system) so that it can work in offline locations such as on a bus. Thus to have credit applied to card from an online topup you have to use a live (online connected) terminal such as a Luas Ticket Machine or and Irish Rail gate.

    It would have been better if they put the effort into Auto Topup rather than this. Unfortunately they didn't so most users are really waiting for auto direct debit topup.


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