The future of Ireland

thomond2006 · 09-10-2011 6:09pm

There won't be any knee jerk reactions by Kidney come February, however there will be an onus on the provincial coaches to not let the internationals back without a fight (Gilroy keeping his place over Danielli for example at Ulster). The selections for Munster vs Leinster in 3 weeks will be telling.

LH Prop: Nobody really but Healy is still very young. McAlister at Ulster has looked decent but he's injured at the moment (don't know how serious)

Hooker: Sherry has looked very good for Munster and Strauss will be available soon (whether you agree or disagree with his potential selection!)

TH Prop: Hagan

Lock: Tuohy, Toner?

Backrow: Pretty stocked up here. Faloon and Henry at Ulster are decent while Leinster's 2nd choice backrow is a formidable outfit. O'Mahony has been brilliant this season for Munster.

Scrumhalf: Murray and Reddan should stay as the incumbents. Nobody ele really. We have the likes of Strings to call up in an emergency.

Flyhalf: Keatley has had a hot and cold season so far for Munster, he was brutal last night. Madigan looks good for Leinster but is he ready for a test callup? I can see O'Gara sticking around the squad until he hangs up his boots.

Centres: Fitzgerald's performances at 12 have been very encouraging, credit to Schmidt for putting him there. Barnes at Munster is far too raw to be considered, he's scoring lot of tries but his defence is weak at the moment. You can't forget about Spence or Cave either. As I said BOD will remain as captain and therefore start at 13.

Wings: Gilroy, Gilroy, Gilroy.

Fullback: Kearney is undisputed number one. Haven't seen Niall Morris play but he's apparently doing brilliantly at Leicester.

Probably forgot a few names above!

Tigerandahalf · 09-10-2011 6:17pm

I wouldn't throw out Mike Ross yet. He will be 35 come the next world cup. He hasn't played a huge amount of rugby and at Leinster he shouldn't be overworked with Hagan around. He could still be there in 2015. But Hagan looks the future..seems to be a good carrier as well.
I wonder could Keatley be pushed to 12 at Munster. He's a big strong guy and though I haven't seen much of him he is meant to be a good passer. He could be an option down the road.
Looking at the u20s WC this year not many stood out with exception of Conway. If he develops he will be quality.

ambid · 09-10-2011 6:20pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

There won't be any knee jerk reactions by Kidney come February, however there will be an onus on the provincial coaches to not let the internationals back without a fight (Gilroy keeping his place over Danielli for example at Ulster). The selections for Munster vs Leinster in 3 weeks will be telling.

LH Prop: Nobody really but Healy is still very young. McAlister at Ulster has looked decent but he's injured at the moment (don't know how serious)

Hooker: Sherry has looked very good for Munster and Strauss will be available soon (whether you agree or disagree with his potential selection!)

TH Prop: Hagan

Lock: Tuohy, Toner?

Backrow: Pretty stocked up here. Faloon and Henry at Ulster are decent while Leinster's 2nd choice backrow is a formidable outfit. O'Mahony has been brilliant this season for Munster.

Scrumhalf: Murray and Reddan should stay as the incumbents. Nobody ele really. We have the likes of Strings to call up in an emergency.

Flyhalf: Keatley has had a hot and cold season so far for Munster, he was brutal last night. Madigan looks good for Leinster but is he ready for a test callup? I can see O'Gara sticking around the squad until he hangs up his boots.

Centres: Fitzgerald's performances at 12 have been very encouraging, credit to Schmidt for putting him there. Barnes at Munster is far too raw to be considered, he's scoring lot of tries but his defence is weak at the moment. You can't forget about Spence or Cave either. As I said BOD will remain as captain and therefore start at 13.

Wings: Gilroy, Gilroy, Gilroy.

Fullback: Kearney is undisputed number one. Haven't seen Niall Morris play but he's apparently doing brilliantly at Leicester.

Probably forgot a few names above!

Backrow: Not sure Falloon or Henry are test standard.
Wing: David Kearney

Fight_Night · 09-10-2011 6:21pm

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I wouldn't throw out Mike Ross yet. He will be 35 come the next world cup. He hasn't played a huge amount of rugby and at Leinster he shouldn't be overworked with Hagan around. He could still be there in 2015. But Hagan looks the future..seems to be a good carrier as well.

Agree completely, he might not be able for a whole match but could be a useful 'last 20 minutes' sub for Hagan, assuming we don't produce any more tightheads.

irishbucsfan · 09-10-2011 6:52pm

I'd be interested to see how Paul Marshall got on behind the Irish pack.

Annabella1 · 09-10-2011 6:57pm

Lots of changes here lads.6N is here in 5 months so I doubt there will be wholesale changes.Pack will basically be the same.Sexton at OH and maybe Fitzgerald at 12.Still think we will do well in 6N and looking forward to getting Wales back to Aviva:D
Time for giving new players a crack is in New Zealand nxt summer

Fireball07 · 09-10-2011 7:37pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

There won't be any knee jerk reactions by Kidney come February, however there will be an onus on the provincial coaches to not let the internationals back without a fight (Gilroy keeping his place over Danielli for example at Ulster). The selections for Munster vs Leinster in 3 weeks will be telling.

LH Prop: Nobody really but Healy is still very young. McAlister at Ulster has looked decent but he's injured at the moment (don't know how serious)

Hooker: Sherry has looked very good for Munster and Strauss will be available soon (whether you agree or disagree with his potential selection!)

TH Prop: Hagan

Lock: Tuohy, Toner? If Nagle gets game-time when POC and DOC are back, then he could make the squad. He's certainly one for the future...and possibly Foley. And I was actually impressed with Ryan's cameos in the WC, I think he's solid.

Backrow: Pretty stocked up here. Faloon and Henry at Ulster are decent while Leinster's 2nd choice backrow is a formidable outfit. O'Mahony has been brilliant this season for Munster. Both Munster and Leinster have a lot of promising young back-rows coming through...they're not all ready now but the future is bright. And our starting one is fairly young too. I'd like to see one of Ryan/Ruddock/POM on the bench for the 6N. I didn't realise McLaughlin is 27, has his time come and gone for Ireland unless he converts to 2nd row? Can't see him ever dislodging one of the 3 atm...and is probably already behind those others I mentioned.

Scrumhalf: Murray and Reddan should stay as the incumbents. Nobody ele really. We have the likes of Strings to call up in an emergency. I suppose TOL could conceivably come back to form.

Flyhalf: Keatley has had a hot and cold season so far for Munster, he was brutal last night. Madigan looks good for Leinster but is he ready for a test callup? I can see O'Gara sticking around the squad until he hangs up his boots.

Centres: Fitzgerald's performances at 12 have been very encouraging, credit to Schmidt for putting him there. Barnes at Munster is far too raw to be considered, he's scoring lot of tries but his defence is weak at the moment. You can't forget about Spence or Cave either. As I said BOD will remain as captain and therefore start at 13. If you mention Spence and Cave, I suppose Marshall and Whitten deserve a mention? Plus Eoin O'Malley and Eoin Griffin. And I think McFadden might stake a claim for a starting place.

Wings: Gilroy, Gilroy, Gilroy. And Earls is still young, Trimble is 26, Bowe is 27.....maybe Fionn Carr will get a chance. I dunno if Zebo is international quality, definitely not yet, but Gilroy as you say has huge potential.

Fullback: Kearney is undisputed number one. Haven't seen Niall Morris play but he's apparently doing brilliantly at Leicester. Felix Jones has massive potential though the injuries are a worry. Conway?

Probably forgot a few names above!

There won't be huge changes come the 6N, but over the next couple of years those players should be given a chance and phased in. For next February...I think Hagan should be blooded, Sherry maybe given a chance as backup hooker (see how he does), get a young lock and backrow on the bench. Maybe a backup to Sexton, a new centre (maybe Fitzgerald) and maybe some rotation in the back 3.

wixfjord · 09-10-2011 7:47pm

I think Fionn Ccsrr, for all his try scoring ability and pace, is not food enough at parts of the game to be an international.

Earls and him on our wings would be seriously speedy, but very weak defensively and intelligence wise aswell.

09-10-2011 8:00pm

Re: Conway, I agree with that if you mean the 6N coming, but he's obviously going to learn an awful lot still. Don't forget he's only 20!

Tiernan O'Halloran is another that will be making strides toward an Irish wing slot in the coming years.

Hagz · 09-10-2011 8:01pm

Gilroy looks to be more than just a try scoring machine. I've seen him put in some big hits so far this season. Watching him play reminds me that Conway is missing a massive opportunity.

Lord Trollington · 09-10-2011 8:02pm

Have we any 6'4 17 stone beast of centers coming through because unless we do we're gonna struggle in future.

We really do look like we lack pace and power in the back line.

irishbucsfan · 09-10-2011 8:12pm

whycliff wrote: »

Have we any 6'4 17 stone beast of centers coming through because unless we do we're gonna struggle in future.

We really do look like we lack pace and power in the back line.

Those specs describe Eamonn Sheridan perfectly. But I dunno if he'd ever be good enough for interntational level.

Quint2010 · 09-10-2011 8:16pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Re: Conway, I agree with that if you mean the 6N coming, but he's obviously going to learn an awful lot still. Don't forget he's only 20!

Tiernan O'Halloran is another that will be making strides toward an Irish wing slot in the coming years.

When is Conway due back?

Hagz · 09-10-2011 8:17pm

whycliff wrote: »

Have we any 6'4 17 stone beast of centers coming through because unless we do we're gonna struggle in future.

We really do look like we lack pace and power in the back line.

What country has a 6'4 17 stone beastly centre?

Roberts are Rougerie are like the only ones. Anyway, Bowe is a pretty big fellow, and Macken is a big lad too.

tolosenc · 09-10-2011 8:24pm

whycliff wrote: »

Have we any 6'4 17 stone beast of centers coming through because unless we do we're gonna struggle in future.

We really do look like we lack pace and power in the back line.

Sheridan at Leinster is exactly that.

totallegend · 09-10-2011 8:24pm

whycliff wrote: »

Have we any 6'4 17 stone beast of centers coming through because unless we do we're gonna struggle in future.

We really do look like we lack pace and power in the back line.

Hook said yesterday that we should take some of our younger, bigger centres and try to convert them into sevens. Maybe we could do the reverse and turn some mobile flankers into centres, we could use a different option at 12.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 09-10-2011 8:30pm

totallegend wrote: »

Hook said yesterday that we should take some of our younger, bigger centres and try to convert them into sevens.

Isn't a philosphy like that that we can blame Niall Ronan on??

tolosenc · 09-10-2011 8:39pm

Hagz wrote: »

What country has a 6'4 17 stone beastly centre?

Roberts are Rougerie are like the only ones. Anyway, Bowe is a pretty big fellow, and Macken is a big lad too.

Sonny Bill, Tuilagi (bit shorter), Tupuailei, Nicholas, Kahui, Nonu (bit shorter), Fatafehi, Hape (to an extent), Morrison, Sgarbi(?), Vulivuli, De Villiers, Fourie, Davies (bit shorter)

All at the RWC, almost all will be at the next one. 12 is developing into an extra flanker in the modern game.

davegrohl48 · 09-10-2011 8:41pm

I would take even someone built like Rougerie who was great going forward and in defence yesterday for France. Rougerie is not that kinda size but he is amazinly powerful.
France - Rougerie, England Tuilagi, Wales - Roberts, New Zealand - Nonu/SBW.
To compete we need someone at 12/13 who can break the gainline on every carry. Even a smaller guy like Medard from France we don't have a player like that. Not a big guy but very fast and powerful.

.ak · 09-10-2011 8:42pm

tolosenc wrote: »

Sheridan at Leinster is exactly that.

Eamon Sheridan? Never seen him play. Is he handy?

.ak · 09-10-2011 8:44pm

Oh wait, I do remember seeing him making an appearance or two earlier this year in ML. But not enough to make an opinion on.

molloyjh · 09-10-2011 8:45pm

.ak wrote: »

tolosenc wrote: »

Sheridan at Leinster is exactly that.

Eamon Sheridan? Never seen him play. Is he handy?

He's never managed to get a decent run going. Between those ahead of him and injury we haven't seen much of him either. And he's out now until Jan afaik. Maybe others have seen him at club level here????

irishbucsfan · 09-10-2011 8:46pm

At the beginning of last season Sheridan was very highly rated coming through pre-season. I think he picked up a bad injury against Wasps and the coaching staff were devastated for him, Schmidt was a big fan. He then picked up another bad injury at some point.

molloyjh · 09-10-2011 8:52pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

At the beginning of last season Sheridan was very highly rated coming through pre-season. I think he picked up a bad injury against Wasps and the coaching staff were devastated for him, Schmidt was a big fan. He then picked up another bad injury at some point.

I was chatting to him after the Rebels game this year and he said it was a bad concussion at the start of last season. Would love to see him get some serious game time. He's a bloody nice fella to boot.

Hagz · 09-10-2011 8:53pm

tolosenc wrote: »

Sonny Bill, Tuilagi (bit shorter), Tupuailei, Nicholas, Kahui, Nonu (bit shorter), Fatafehi, Hape (to an extent), Morrison, Sgarbi(?), Vulivuli, De Villiers, Fourie, Davies (bit shorter)

All at the RWC, almost all will be at the next one. 12 is developing into an extra flanker in the modern game.

Actually, nobody on that list is 6'4 but Sgarbi;). I'm surprised at how tall some of these guys are though. I would never have thought Kahui, Fourie, Tuilagi were so tall.

As people have said Sheridan fits the bill, but to be honest I've been largely unimpressed by him. Judging by you're list, any centre over 6'0 will do. So I'm going with Fitzgerald. Ever since he's been playing there, I'm hooked on the idea. Fitz has always been a rock solid defender, and at 6'1 he's a big lad too, and he could probably bulk up if he commits to the position. He's pro-offload and he's got a really nice step. This move could be the making of him.

Brendan97 · 09-10-2011 9:07pm

during some international test friendlies kidney should give-

McFadden, Fitzgerald, L Marshall, Trimble a run out at 12
McFadden, L Marshall, Bowe, Trimble, Earls, Fitzgerald a run out at 13

these "try outs" could help us find a centre partnership to eventually replace BOD and Darcy in a few years

probably missed a few but these are the first ones to come to mind

CIARAN_BOYLE · 09-10-2011 9:17pm

Spence could do the job as a very physical 12

tolosenc · 09-10-2011 9:54pm

Brendan97 wrote: »

McFadden, L Marshall, Bowe, Trimble, Earls, Fitzgerald a run out at 13

No.

He's shown that he still has a fair distance to go to be an international standard winger.

.ak wrote: »

Eamon Sheridan? Never seen him play. Is he handy?

Not the finished article, but his size and power alone give him the potential. He doesn't have the hands of SBW, but he ain't bad.

davegrohl48 · 09-10-2011 9:58pm

Fitz is already about as bulked as you can make him. If you add on more muscle to him he will lose a bit of pace/stamina with each extra kg.
He is not exactly lightening as it is so extra bulk would ruin his game I think.
Think Fitz might do fine as it is at 12/13. Reportedly doing well at centre at moment is Leinster fans opinion (haven't seen latest games).
Remember Denis Hickie, he went from like 14 stone to 15 stone and to me his game suffered. (Although the awful outing he had in South Africa when I think he broke his jaw didn't help)
Just for example David Gillick a 400 m Olympian added on extra muscle to gain speed. He was asked how much weight that involved putting on. His answer was 2kg. He said above that it wouldn't be efficient to put on anymore muscle. Now I'v met Gillick and trust me he is a slim guy with a big frame. You have to consider too that all that extra bulk has to be carried around by the same heart, lungs, lactic acid clearing system, energy transporting system. It's why I think Heaslip should lose all that weight he has put on. He has gained 6kg since his debut. He is definitely slower than when he started.

Esroh · 09-10-2011 10:07pm

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

There's a real need to develop the 4th team in Ireland. There are plenty of good players available. Leinster have 3/4 very promising players who could do with playing Pro12 on a consistent basis and this year the H Cup with Connacht. Put the money into Connacht. It's a pity that Pearse stadium wasn't available for the HCup matches. It would have been a real opportunity for the Connacht support to get out.
Long term Ireland need that 4th team to provide real options and squad depth. Some of the players at Leinster will be wasted this year plus there are a handful of internationals abroad who could be brought home.

Mayo County Board made it know they were willing to discuss the use of McHale park (they need the money) but were never approched . I know Galway is considered the Home of Connacht Rugby but Castlebar is only 1 hour away.

The future of Ireland

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