N2 - Slane Bypass [planning decision pending]

My view is that an M2 shadowing the N2 from Ashbourne to Ardee would be an extravagance we can certainly do without. We're bust and we need to prioritise schemes better, and rationalise a few others. I have a thread about that here.
But the Slane Bypass is only approx. 4km long an should be built regardless.

Best to have an image of this here:

Furet wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/1012/1224280878318.html

If the proposed bypass does not encroach upon this site, then it should still go ahead. The route chosen looks like the best option as it is the shortest, seems to be the most eco friendly, the most cost effective, and the least damaging to the village of Slane. A route to the West has no advantage except for either the construction industry which would be happy with a far longer scheme to construct, or the accountants who would have a bigger excuse for not doing the bypass. Also, the Western route would result in more destruction of woodland and scrub, and would also impact on the drumlin country around the Hill of Slane. A route to West, apart from being more costly, would much be more inconvenient to most motorists. Also, given where the buffer zone and the new discovery is, the option of using the Western route to act also as a bypass for the N51 would seem unlikely.

Doing nothing is simply not an option either, and to further restrict traffic (now limited to 30kph) is also not an option - a proper crossing of the Boyne in the area is needed - simple! Also, how much more can the people of Slane take, and how much more can the village itself (with all the traffic vibrations) take. Also, when certain people seem to worry about how the road will affect the appearance of the area, what about the lovely enhancements to the southern approach to Slane - maybe they think the yellow gantries do look lovely! :rolleyes: Well I for one don't - they're as ugly as hell and the new road is most likely to lead to the best thing that would ever happen them - demolition! Also, there would be scope to enhance pedestrian facilities along this approach and the old bridge.

Bypass Slane Now!!!

Route Options (Bypass Slane Campaign Site)

Newtown Warrior wrote: »

The intrinsic and tourist value of Bru na Boinne is far greater the destruction of woodland and scrub and would also impact on the drumlin country around the Hill of Slane’????????? The notion of potentially compromising one of Irelands premiere locations should not be on the table when we are trying desperately to encourage for tourist to visitors and maintaining our precious heritage.

I concur that Slane requires a bypass. However as demonstrated due consideration has not been given to the western proposal.

The Eastern Route does not threaten Newgrange or Knowth in any way - these are inside the core heritage zone - then there is the buffer zone to ensure the protection of Bru na Boinne - the Eastern route does not even enter this buffer zone.

The real question is: what tourists do we as Irish people really want anyway? Do we want tourists who accept this country for what it is or do we want tourists that see this island as some sort of disneyland with leprechauns and thatched cottages. They only reason I can see for not proceeding with the eastern route (unless it directly affects the new discovery) is that it might spoil the experience for the type of tourist who don't really want to see sight nor light of us ordinary Irish people.

Given that Bru na Boinne is under no threat, to me our daily lives plus the environment are of far greater importance than creating an illusion that suits some stereotypical tourist that likes to see Ireland as quaint! Do you really want this stereotypical image of Ireland to persist - are you not rather embarrassed when people abroad might still think we have only acquired electricity in the last 20 years.

I must admit, when I was a child (11) going to Scotland (Glasgow), I thought it would be all cobblestones, kilts and bagpipes! :o:o WTF??? When I got to Glasgow (1984), I was stunned by the then futuristic M8 motorway - it completely blew away my stupid perception of Scotland for good! In other words, I was glad to see Scotland for what is really was - I was so glad is wasn't all in the past and the M8 was my favourite motorway for such a long time (the Dublin M50 nowadays) - I did read English comics at the time - I wonder is that where I got my perception? Likewise, some of our tourists must get real about Ireland - many of us Irish people (though proud of our heritage) do not appreciate stereotypes regarding this country - I for one would put the walk through the Red Cow Interchange on the tourist trail - with a whirlpool of traffic lanes all round, it would get them real about Ireland!

Newtown Warrior wrote: »

This western route has its benefits-

• It is located further away from Bru na Boinne.
• It is located closer to existing quarry developments.
• A longer road will provide more employment directly and indirectly.

Point 1 is not a good reason - apart from the ECO aspect, would the eastern route not better serve people trying to get to Bru na Boinne?
Point 2 is good - didn't think of that one I must admit!
Point 3 - the long term interests of people and the environment takes precedence over short term economics as far as I'm concerned. The longer route would also mean increased business costs for many as it is significantly longer.
I will throw in Point 4: The western route (just thought of it) would facilitate a possible traffic desire line from Navan past Slane to Ardee, then across on the N33 to the M1 North.

However, the N2 is the main desire line for now, so I still think the Eastern Route is best!

Regards!

Irish and Proud wrote: »

The Eastern Route does not threaten Newgrange or Knowth in any way - these are inside the core heritage zone - then there is the buffer zone to ensure the protection of Bru na Boinne - the Eastern route does not even enter this buffer zone.

That is completely false.

The proposed bypass will intrude upon the World Heritage Site, directly. It will be visible, audible, and entail demolishing a number of archaeological sites that are related to Newgrange. In addition, it will detract greatly from the amenity value of the site and its setting, which is also protected in law. It will sever the World Heritage Site from the village.

That is why some of Ireland's leading archaeologists, like Professor George Eogan, think it could even result in the loss of World Heritage status.

But not only Ireland's leading archaeologists, but one of Ireland's leading transport experts, Dr Edward Morgenroth of the ESRI, has condemned this project as an "idiotic" waste of taxpayers money, when there is a much more logical and efficient solution to stopping all the HGVs passing through the village every day, avoiding the M1 toll. Implement the HGV ban that the Meath County Councillors voted for in 2009. If the HGVs are gone, there is no need for this bypass.

The NRA agreed with Morgenroth and cancelled the bypass in late April 2009, but then changed their mind, after a visit by Brian Cowen to Slane. Something very fishy going on planning-wise in Meath.

With 7 billion in cuts on the horizon, it is insance to keep building 'gold-plated' infrastructure like this. Look at the M3, with traffic 25% under target, and direct payments being made by the taxpayer to the tolling company, for another newroad that wasn't needed, when the old one could have been upgraded, and not tolled at all.

The Celtic Tiger is over...and sites like Newgrange are the only real thing that will keep money flowing into this country. Leave them alone...

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

That is the most sensible solution to the whole thing. I also think a short link road on the north western side of Slane linking the existing N2 (which should be redesigated as suggested above) and the N51. Online upgrades of the N51 to Navan (which is needed anyway) would mean traffic can turn off at Adree and use M1 or take N51 to get onto M3 to get to Dublin without having to enter Slane or go near the World Heritage Site. Simple. We already have two motorways within 15km of Slane so there is absolutely no need to spend money bypassing the town.

No, there is a need for a bypass - even if it's scaled down to type 2 single carriageway (8.0m pavement). AFAIK, there is not one crossing of the Boyne between the Navan Inner Relief Road and the M1 that is even 2 lanes wide - and at least 2 of these are death traps (Slane and Oldbridge). There are a lot of people living in the general area of Slane.

Regards!

MYOB wrote: »

If you want "completely false", lets just deconstruct your post:

Edgar Morgenroth is NOT a transport expert. He is an economist. He is qualified in economics, not transport.

Sorry, but you are wrong on all counts.

While Dr Edgar Morgenroth is an economist, he is probably Ireland's leading transport economist/expert. According his profile on the web site of his employer, the Economics and Social Research Institute (ESRI), Ireland's leading research institute:

Dr Edgar Morgenroth is an Associate Research Professor and programme co-ordinator for research on transport and infrastructure at the ESRI. He holds a PhD in Economics from Keele University in the UK and a Master’s degree in Economics and Finance from the National University of Ireland, Maynooth

His research interests include transport economics, international trade, economic geography and public economics. Within these broad research topics he is particularly interested in the commuting patterns, economic returns to infrastructure, determinants of the volume of trade, the determinants of firm location, regional disparities, regional policy and the efficiency of public investment.

Not only that, but he actually worked on the formulation of the National Development Plan (NDP), the transport section of which was rebranded as Transport 21; the plan the N2 Slane bypass is being built under.

Dr Morgenroth has carried out extensive research as part of major studies on public investment in Ireland that were carried out as background studies for the formulation of the Irish National Development Plans. For example he was project co-ordinator on the research study on Investment Priorities carried out for the Department of Finance. In addition he has collaborated on a range of major studies on EU Structural Funds such as the Ex-post Evaluation of the Community Support Framework for the period 1994 to 1999.

It is important to note that the N2 Slane bypass was not originally included in the NDP/Transport 21, but was added later on.

In On 24 April 2009 he wrote an Opinion piece for The Irish Times called ‘Cuts in capital spending need not mean fewer projects‘, in which he wrote:

Of course, not all planned infrastructure projects were good projects to start with and some should certainly be abandoned. It is remarkable that there are plans to facilitate the avoidance of the toll on the M1 by building a bypass around Slane involving the expensive construction of a bridge over the river Boyne when a simple HGV ban would solve the local traffic problems.

Since then, Dr Morgenroth has written two posts in The Irish Economy blog, saying the N2 Slane bypass is a waste of taxpayers’ money. The first post, 1 March 2010, was entitled ‘Wasting money on roads?‘ and said:

The simple, cheap and obvious solution to the problem of HGVs going through Slane is to ban them from doing so, as I argued in May 2009. This would also avoid all the hassle of forcing a major construction project through an area rich in archaeological sites and historic significance.

The follow-up post, published 25 August 2010, was entitled simply ‘Wasting money on roads‘, wherein Dr Morgenroth said:

Unfortunately gold-plating of projects is not unusual. In the ESRI Mid-Term Evaluation of NDP 2000-2006 we pointed out that “roads with capacity of 55,500 AADT, or anywhere near it, appear to be a significant overdesign for the numerous lightly-trafficked sections of the N8 and N9″. Such schemes cannot pass a reasonable cost-benefit analysis when compared to more appropriately sized schemes.

Unfortunately, the lesson does not seem to have been learned and the tax payer is expected to pay for overdesign again (the fact that some of the schemes are PPPs is irrelevant here as these also have to be paid for by tax payers).

Take the example of the N2, for which there are two proposed schemes in the system. I have already referred to the idiotic scheme to by-pass Slane where the key issue could be simply dealt with via a HGV ban.

The ironic thing is that the NRA actually agreed with Dr Morgenroth and cancelled the N2 Slane bypass in 2009, on economic grounds, but mysteriously changed their mind, not long after a visit from the Taoiseach to Slane.

The NRA informed Slane councillors by letter that there was no funding for the bypass in a 20 May 2009 meeting with Slane Electoral Area councillors, which was reported in The Meath Chronicle on 27 May 2009- . Incredulity in Slane as NRA says no funds for bypass:

In its explanation for a pause in progress on the construction of a bypass – delivered to councillors at the Slane Electoral Area meeting last Wednesday – the NRA said the Government”s national transport infrastructure investment programme, Transport 21, provided the framework for the development of the national road network over the 10-year period from 2006 to 2015. It said that, under the plan, the initial focus of the authority”s programme of works would concentrate on the completion of the five major inter-urban routes linking Dublin to Cork, Waterford, Limerick, Galway and Northern Ireland (via the M1) to motorway/high quality carriageway standard.

The plan anticipated the completion of these routes in their entirety by the end of 2010. Transport 21 also envisaged significant development of other key national primary roads, including the N2, N3, N4, N5, N21, N22, N24, N25 and N30, the Atlantic Road Corridor from Letterkenny through Sligo, Galway, Limerick, Cork and Waterford, as well as a number of national secondary routes which were identified in the plan as being particularly important for regional development, it said. Because of this, and the continued uncertainty regarding public finances, the NRA regretted that ‘it is not possible at this time to provide funding for the construction of the N2 Slane Bypass’.

Then the leader of Fianna Fail, Taoiseach, Brian Cowen was welcomed to Slane on 25 May 2009 by Minister for Transport, Noel Dempsey, and his local Fianna Fail allies, Thomas Byrne TD and Cllr-to-be Wayne Harding. This was part of the Fianna Fail European and local election campaign. The Taoiseach’s arrival is proudly proclaimed in Cllr Harding’s blog (see him pictured with Cowen and Bypass Slane) – Harding welcomes Taoiseach meeting with Slane Bridge protest group:

15 July 2009 - just two months after cancelling the bypass – NRA announced reversal of Slane bypass decision to the Oireachtas Transport Committee:

The National Roads Authority believes that Slane should be bypassed on economic, environmental and safety grounds. The planning is well advanced and the compulsory purchase order, CPO, and environmental impact statement, EIS, documentation will be available to submit to An Bord Pleanála by October this year. Subject to Department of Finance approval, CPO and EIS applications will be submitted to An Bord Pleanála as soon as the documentation is ready.

MYOB wrote: »

And an archaeologist that thinks that something outside the buffer zone of a world heritage site could lead to the loss of world heritage status clearly doesn't know what he's talking about.

Are you serious? You think some of Ireland's leading archaeologists, like Professor George Eogan of UCD and Joe Fenwick of NUI Galway and the Boyne Research Project, are going to go public and put their reputations on the line, without good reason? Are you going to side with archaeologists paid by the NRA?

The plan is to build a dual carriageway, 500m from the edge of the world heritage site. That is considered the setting, and protected in the National Monuments Act. The landscape and views is protected the County Development Plan. Even UNESCO informed Ireland, at the time of inscription, to protect site and control development "in and around" the World Heritage Site.

In The Drogheda Independent – Wednesday January 27 2010:

Dr George Eogan, Professor Emeritus of Archaeology at University College Dublin, who performed extensive excavations at the Bru na Boinne World Heritage Site, said: "If this plan goes ahead, it will have a significant impact on the landscape and will result in the World Heritage Site being boxed in between two motorways, the M1 and the M2. 500 metres is simply too close, and it is conceivable that Newgrange could lose its World Heritage Status, if this plan goes ahead, like Dresden did last summer. They should simply ban HGVs from the town. There is simply no need to spend all this money or to do all this damage."

Not only that but the EIS states that over 44 archaeological sites are to be impacted by the proposed bypass, in just 3.5km. As noted above, Fenwick has argued that the boundary of the world heritage site is not big enough, and it should be expanded to include new sites.

MYOB wrote: »

As all roads which cross the path of the bypass currently will continue to cross the path of it - on bridges - there is no severance

Ploughing a greenfield Type 2 dual carriageway, built to motorway standard, through the Boyne Valley, one of Ireland's most delicate and highly protected natural reserves - in between the village of Slane and the World Heritage Site - is going to create severance on a grand scale. Pedestrians will not be able to even cross the road.

Ironically, one of the big arguments the NRA makes against the western route is that fact that it will sever the village from Slane Castle. Are you going to say there is no severance there too?

MYOB wrote: »

And a 2+2 bypass is not "gold plated". Slane needs bypassing and a 2+2 is the minimum standard which will avoid having to re-do it within a decade. A HGV cannot happen without an acceptable signposted alternative route - guess what? There isn't one.

Slane has already been bypassed, at a cost of roughly 2 billion euros. The M1 motorway actually runs along the western side of the UNESCO World Heritage Site, about 7km to the west of the village. The new M3 motorway runs about 7km to the east of the village.

That is why Meath County Councillors voted for the HGV ban in April 2009. All they have to do is drive 5 min to the east or west, along the existing road.

MYOB wrote: »

And N3 was unupgradable - there were houses and business premises alongside virtually all of it; Navan needed bypassing, Dunshauglin needed bypassing and Kells needed bypassing.

The original plan was to upgrade the N3; a plan that had been on the cards for about 20 years, which entailed bypassing the towns and pthe road. A 2+1 scheme could easily have gone in, without much damage to the few scattered houses along the road.

However, once the upgrade was approved in 1999 by An Bord Pleanala, a decision was made to create the National Development Plan 2000-2006. This radically altered this and other plans all around the country - in what was a blatant grab for EU funding, not to mention an unprecedented opportunity for rezoning.

Look at what is now happening in Carrickmines, where the the practice of bribes for rezoning land, which is then bought for motorways at inflated prices, is finally being prosecuted.

Now, you are telling me that Dublin needs 3 major motorways going north, within 20km of each other? New York City doesn't have that many motorways going north, why does Dublin need it?

With cuts of 7 billion on the cards this year alone, you seriously want to spend another 100 million on toll roads in Meath, when a simple HGV ban will do the trick?