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Women walks away scot free after admitting making up sexual assault allegations

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    #62
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    Dudess wrote: »
    It's not that she was only 10 Zulu, it's the likelihood she was told by her family (feuding with the man's family) to do this - especially considering she used really explicit terminology when testifying.
    I'm not suggesting she's the sole guilty person in this case. I'm only commenting on her guilt.
    Not comparing like with like - she made an allegation, she didn't carry out a rape.
    She raped his character.
    I accept it's not like for like; it's still despicable.


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    #63
    MOH
    Registered Users Posts: 6,464 ✭✭✭MOH


    ttilting wrote: »
    Law is quite complicated.

    If this women is punished this would mean others would be slow to do what she did.... (( ie admit making it up)

    Or maybe a bit slower to make it up in the first place


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    #64
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    herya wrote: »
    I actually find it more likely for a 10 year old to be violent and assault/kill another child than to come up with an elaborate setup plan involving legal knowledge and specialist terminology - on their own - over property issues.

    I wasn't agreeing that the two cases are comparable, just outlining what te post was about.
    Terry wrote:
    How the **** do people get away with stuff by saying they have found God?
    This is not a state run by any church*, yet courts are lenient on those who say they found God.
    What if someone was to say sorry for wasting the court's time. I'm not going to be a bad person any more.
    Would they be treated the same way?
    It's a ****ing cop out and I can't believe judges can't see past it

    Yup, sad state of affairs. You'll probably find most of these violent criminals who are released from prison despicably early have 'found God'. Found an easy escape route is more like it.

    sidenote: I wonder if one was to 'find God' and start quoting the Bible passages that condone rape would you get off lightly? (first to make a joke about that choice of wording will suffer).


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    #65
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Terry wrote: »
    How the **** do people get away with stuff by saying they have found God?
    This is not a state run by any church*, yet courts are lenient on those who say they found God.
    What if someone was to say sorry for wasting the court's time. I'm not going to be a bad person any more.
    Would they be treated the same way?
    It's a ****ing cop out and I can't believe judges can't see past it.

    I doubt that had anything to do with it. She wasn't being charged with anything, and she was 2 years under the age of legal responsibility when she made the allegations, I doubt she could be.
    Zulu wrote:
    Does it somehow contradict my post? Or prove it wholly incorrect?.

    You're talking about two children, not two adults, or even two teenagers.


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    #66
    Das Kitty
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 17,231 Mod ✭✭✭✭Das Kitty


    Mr. Anderson wrote: »
    Really don't see that as a point of to defend her really. All it says is don't punish a person for doing the right thing after doing the wrong thing.
    Her being 10 at the time, while pertinent, shouldn't come into this as much as people are making out. If she weren't 10 for instance I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have made the above point.

    No I would have.

    <SNIP>

    I think the fact that she came forward could be used as a mitigating factor in that prosecution.

    The fact that she was a child at the time would also be a mitigating factor.

    I would be very very wary of saying that she should get away without any repercussions just because she came forward and admitted it. There is no amnesty for crimes like this as far as I know. I know people are saying that if she doesn't get away with it it will discourage others but I can't condone that personally.

    There should be a trial here, but it's more than likely going to be a Civil one (compensation) rather than a criminal one if the falsely accused man wants to persue it. He may not, but I hope he does.


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    #67
    Elmo
    Registered Users Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    She was 10 at the time she couldn't be arrested for this crime or prosicuted. <SNIP>

    While it is a dreadful thing to happen to the guy involved, yet again we see suspened sentences after a verdict of guilt to a sexual offence. Sorry I don't mean to take from the terrible thing that happened to him.


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    #68
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    Nodin wrote: »
    You're talking about two children, not two adults, or even two teenagers.
    No I'm not. One child (the girl 10) and one poor unfortunate innocent man (25 at the time I think).

    What are you talking about?


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    #69
    grumpytrousers
    Registered Users Posts: 1,884 ✭✭✭grumpytrousers


    Elmo wrote: »
    While it is a dreadful thing to happen to the guy involved, yet again we see suspened sentences after a verdict of guilt to a sexual offence. Sorry I don't mean to take from the terrible thing that happened to him.

    Hold on...i can see where you're coming from'n'stuff, but is TODAY the day to be pointing out that 'he really should have been locked up and not given a suspended sentence' when it's just emerged that he shouldn't have been convicted in the first instance.

    Christ - the only 'good' thing to come of this is that the poor fella didn't have to spend the four years biting a pillow down on D wing...instead he got to be a pariah on the outside world.


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    #70
    Zadkiel
    Registered Users Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Zadkiel


    Red Alert wrote: »
    She should be locked up, along with whomever was complicit in this. She should also be given a hefty fine to be paid to the victim she has wronged to compensate him for presumable loss of earnings from being in jail and having his good name damaged.

    She was a child. The people who should be punished are the people who made her do this.

    "Ms Hardester's allegation of sexual assault was made in detailed terms, and was conspicuous for its graphic and coherent uses of medical and anatomical terms, the court said."

    They stole her innocence just as surely as they stole his. She was a child at the time and most likely didnt realise the life shattering implications of what she was doing. She's an adult now and realising the weight of what she did, has apologised.

    Those that put her in this position should be pursued to the fullest extent of the law imo.

    I can't imagine what life must have been like for him since. He deserves to be compensated but what would make him feel any better about any of the past years?


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    #71
    allabouteve
    Closed Accounts Posts: 844 ✭✭✭allabouteve


    Zulu wrote: »

    This man has spent the last ten years living in society as a peodophile all because of one persons lie. It's sad, and it's sick.

    A childs lie. A child who seems to have been coherced into lying by adults who were fully aware of the crime they were perpertrating. Adults lying are far more culpable.

    Adults who could have saved this womans conscience, and her guilt at her childish complicity, never mind what they did to an innocent man.


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    #72
    big b
    Registered Users Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭big b


    Nodin wrote: »
    They were 10 years old.
    Zulu wrote: »
    Ah sure it's ok: she was only 10.
    Nodin wrote: »
    Are you familiar with the concept of the age of majority?

    :eek:


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    #73
    ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 760 ✭✭✭ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI


    Zadkiel wrote: »

    They stole her innocence just as surely as they stole his. She was a child at the time and most likely didnt realise the life shattering implications of what she was doing.

    Children are not that naive. Do you remember when you were 10? You probably weren't as stupid as a lot of people are claiming this girl must have been. The average 10 year old will know the consequences of their actions.

    Hannon should sue the state, it clearly is a miscarriage of justice if he can get convicted on such flimsy evidence (flimsy, as in clearly there was no physical evidence, as nothing happened). One would imagine there would be a much higher burden of truth for a rape case, particularly involving a minor where it's essentially a death sentence for someone accused.

    I can hardly imagine the torment this guy had to go through...even being put on trial and acquitted for a sexual assault case probably carries an enormous stigma, how many people would think "ah well, there's no smoke without fire", never mind the people who got convicted and had that conviction overruled.

    I'm amazed that so many people are taking the side of the girl, there should be no leniency for cases like this. False accusations can ruin someone's life, more than a rape can, and the people who get a thrill out of false accusations should be given twice what the person they accused would have got.

    Am not suggesting that the parents are not a guilty party here too, or that she shouldn't get some sort of leniency for coming clean, albeit 9 years too late.


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    #74
    Amalgam
    Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭Amalgam


    Strange this thread should be so lively today, this just popped up on The Irish Times website:

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0427/breaking63.htm

    Last Updated: Monday, April 27, 2009, 18:20
    Sex attack case ruled a miscarriage
    Related »

    * Man seeks miscarriage of justice declaration | 20/04/2009

    A Co Galway man who was wrongly found guilty of sexually assaulting a 10-year-old girl has had his conviction declared a miscarriage of justice.

    Michael Fechin Hannon (34) had asked the Court of Criminal Appeal to declare a miscarriage of justice arising from his recently overturned conviction of sexually assaulting the girl more than a decade ago.

    Mr Hannon’s conviction in 1999 for the assault was quashed by the CCA last February as a result of her admission in 2006 she had made up her claims.

    Mr Hannon had applied to have the conviction declared a miscarriage of justice but the DPP opposed the application on grounds including there was no wrong doing by the State or any of its agents.

    The three-judge CCA, with Mr Justice Adrian Hardiman presiding and sitting with Mr Justice Daniel Herbert and Mr Justice John MacMenamin, granted Mr Hannon a certificate of miscarriage of justice.

    Mr Hannon of Attymon, Athenry, Co Galway, received a suspended four-year prison sentence at Galway Circuit Court in 1999 after being found guilty by a jury of sexually assaulting and assaulting the girl near her home in the Clifden area in January 1997.

    Mr Hannon had consistently denied the charges. When withdrawing her claims in 2006 as false and entirely fabricated, the girl, now aged in her 20s, said her family had been in dispute with Mr Hannon’s family when she made the claims but she now wanted to tell the truth so his name could be cleared.

    Now living in the US, she told gardaí in statements she had decided to come clean after “finding God”.

    In her 2006 admissions to gardaí, the woman said none of the allegations against the man were true and her motivation for making them was “revenge and misplaced loyalty to my family.” She said the two families did not get on.

    She said she had never come into contact with Mr Hannon at any stage and nor was she coerced or coached by anyone. She said she had done something terribly wrong and got away with it whereas others, especially Mr Hannon, had paid a heavy price.

    The woman also apologised to the State and all other involved in the case for wasting their time and money.

    Mr Hannon said he found out by the retractions “by chance” when a member of his family met with the complainant in November 2006.

    Speaking outside the court today, Mr Hannon said he had always maintained his innocence.

    “I am very pleased and relieved that my conviction has been quashed and that the court has confirmed that I have suffered a miscarriage of justice,” he said. “It’s been extremely difficult for me and my family since my trial. This day has been long-coming. I have had to live with the stigma of a conviction that I did not do.”

    Mr Hannon said he was “disappointed and upset” that the State had resisted his efforts to have his case declared a miscarriage of justice. He said he has never received an apology from any State agency for what happened to him.

    The case was overturned but still on the books as a normal case..

    Hopefully this will allow closure for the man, properly cleared, 100%.


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    #75
    allabouteve
    Closed Accounts Posts: 844 ✭✭✭allabouteve


    ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI wrote: »
    Children are not that naive. Do you remember when you were 10? You probably weren't as stupid as a lot of people are claiming this girl must have been. The average 10 year old will know the consequences of their actions.

    Hannon should sue the state, it clearly is a miscarriage of justice if he can get convicted on such flimsy evidence (flimsy, as in clearly there was no physical evidence, as nothing happened). One would imagine there would be a much higher burden of truth for a rape case, particularly involving a minor where it's essentially a death sentence for someone accused.

    I can hardly imagine the torment this guy had to go through...even being put on trial and acquitted for a sexual assault case probably carries an enormous stigma, how many people would think "ah well, there's no smoke without fire", never mind the people who got convicted and had that conviction overruled.

    I'm amazed that so many people are taking the side of the girl, there should be no leniency for cases like this. False accusations can ruin someone's life, more than a rape can, and the people who get a thrill out of false accusations should be given twice what the person they accused would have got.

    Am not suggesting that the parents are not a guilty party here too, or that she shouldn't get some sort of leniency for coming clean, albeit 9 years too late.

    1. Nobody's claiming the girl was a stupid child, but traumatised by cohersion.

    2. The man in question is by far the greatest victim in all this.

    3. To say that to be the victim of a false accusation of rape is probably worse than being the victim of rape, is naive, insensitive, and shows a complete lack of understanding of the effects the crime has on its victims.

    4. To say a 10 year old is fully cogniscant of the consequences of their actions is not a concept recognised in law.


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    #76
    javaboy
    Registered Users Posts: 15,094 ✭✭✭✭javaboy


    Amalgam wrote: »
    Strange this thread should be so lively today, this just popped up on The Irish Times website:

    Not too strange since it was started as a result of what happened today. :)


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    #77
    Amalgam
    Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭Amalgam


    javaboy wrote: »
    Not too strange since it was started as a result of what happened today. :)

    I did look for the link Javaboy.. http://images.buycostumes.com/mgen/merchandiser/27377.jpg


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    #78
    bigeasyeah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,290 ✭✭✭bigeasyeah


    I dont understand how he was convicted in the first place.Id like to know the evidence given against him apart from the allegation of sexual assault.Given the history between the two families,the said allegation should have been closely scrutinised.


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    #79
    b28
    Closed Accounts Posts: 350 ✭✭b28


    This case shocked me!
    What about double jeapordy! lol


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    #80
    We
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 284 ✭✭We


    This whole story disgusts me, but what's not really being mentioned is that while she may, being only 10, have been fed what to say by her <>whoever - she still waited TEN YEARS to come clean about it. In my books, she should in no way be aquitted of this ****e by any means. 10 year stretch for her too imho.

    It takes a ten year old to be coerced into lying like this, but it takes a sick freak to live with it for 10 years after..


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    #81
    javaboy
    Registered Users Posts: 15,094 ✭✭✭✭javaboy


    snyper wrote: »
    Shes the little girl that cried wolf.

    She wont be believed the second time :cool:
    b28 wrote: »
    What about double jeapordy! lol

    Cut out the rape jokes.


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    #82
    b28
    Closed Accounts Posts: 350 ✭✭b28


    my apologies. didnt mean to offend!


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    #83
    AckwelFoley
    Registered Users Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    b28 wrote: »
    This case shocked me!
    What about double jeapordy! lol

    If her raped her now - he can be charged as it is a separate case of rape. Each case of rape is separate, so if he rapes her 15 times he could be charged 15 times.

    Double jeaprody is if he kills her. You cant kill someone twice, therefore you cant be charged for killig someone a second time.


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    #84
    b28
    Closed Accounts Posts: 350 ✭✭b28


    snyper wrote: »
    If he fails to win damages, and in his wisdom decides to get his 10 years worth out of her and to rape her - he can be charged as it is a separate case of rape. Each case of rape is separate, so if he rapes her 15 times he could be charged 15 times.

    Double jeaprody is if he kills her. You cant kill someone twice, therefore you cant be charged for killig someone a second time.

    lol:pac:
    He must have been really messed up! I feel sorry for him!
    this is not right at all.


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    #85
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    We wrote: »
    This whole story disgusts me, but what's not really being mentioned is that while she may, being only 10, have been fed what to say by her <>/whoever - she still waited TEN YEARS to come clean about it. In my books, she should in no way be aquitted of this ****e by any means. 10 year stretch for her too imho.
    First of all, for most of that 10 years she was still only a kid. Secondly, if she was coerced <> into saying it, why would she so easily come forward when sharing a home with them? You're making very presumptuous statements.
    It takes a ten year old to be coerced into lying like this, but it takes a sick freak to live with it for 10 years after..
    "Sick freak"? How? A scared teenager with a horribly guilty conscience might also describe her. She's a victim in this too - if she was coerced, which seems highly likely. The ones who made her do it are the ones entirely accountable for this twisted ****.


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    #86
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    allabouteve wrote: »
    A childs lie. A child who seems to have been coherced into lying by adults who were fully aware of the crime they were perpertrating. Adults lying are far more culpable.
    A childs lie that destroyed an innocent adults life. True adults lieing are more culpable, yet that's not the issue in this thread. This isn't about the adults.
    Adults who could have saved this womans conscience, and her guilt at her childish complicity, never mind what they did to an innocent man.
    Well, no. Lets mind what they did to an innocent. The woman/childs
    conscience is hardly the worst offended here.


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    #87
    ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 760 ✭✭✭ZWEI_VIER_ZWEI


    Dudess wrote: »
    She's a victim in this too - if she was coerced, which seems highly likely.

    Bull****, coerced or not, she still made a decision that would ruin someone's life. And she knew the consequences, 10 year olds are not that naive. She is no victim, she's just another scumbag. They should lock her up and throw away the key.


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    #88
    bigeasyeah
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,290 ✭✭✭bigeasyeah


    I dont understand how he was convicted in the first place.Id like to know the evidence given against him apart from the allegation of sexual assault.Given the history between the two families,the said allegation should have been closely scrutinised.


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    #89
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    We has got a point.

    The girl went through 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 without doing a thing.

    I knew right from wrong well before I was 10.
    I knew to object to an adult about 13/14.
    I certainly knew to object to my parents around 13/14.

    At 16/17 I wanted to be an adult, and knew how to make adult decisions.

    Perhaps she should be tried for preversing the course of justice since she we 18.


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    #90
    AckwelFoley
    Registered Users Posts: 12,556 ✭✭✭✭AckwelFoley


    Obviously, the man is the victim here..

    However a ten year old child didnt think this up on her own - i think the dog on the street could assume that.

    I think people are forgetting that she did confess when she was older - older more independant and free from the pressures of coersion from the "people" that instigated this lie.


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    #91
    dr.bollocko
    Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 35,943 Mod ✭✭✭✭dr.bollocko


    snyper wrote: »
    Obviously, the man is the victim here..

    However a ten year old child didnt think this up on her own - i think the dog on the street could assume that.

    I think people are forgetting that she did confess when she was older - older more independant and free from the pressures of coersion from the "people" that instigated this lie.

    I think you just won this thread.


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