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Women walks away scot free after admitting making up sexual assault allegations

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    #32
    Galvasean
    Registered Users Posts: 30,746 ✭✭✭✭Galvasean


    Dudess wrote: »
    I'm not being smart but I still don't get the relevance.

    Someone said a ten year old isn't capable of such actions (or something to that effect) and he posted an example where ten year olds had been shown to do heinous acts.


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    #33
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    nomorebadtown wrote: »

    I cited the Bulger case as an example of 10 year old kids knowingly doing something extremely wrong and being punished.

    ...who, thanks to a sensationalist media and a compliant British home office became boogiemen, pariahs and were treated in a manner highly inappropriate for 10 year old children. They now live under concealed identities, which some have attempted to uncover, due to a prolonged campaign against them. Because of something they did when there were 10 years old.


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    #34
    grumpytrousers
    Registered Users Posts: 1,884 ✭✭✭grumpytrousers


    Dudess wrote: »
    I'm not being smart but I still don't get the relevance.

    I think the point is that ten years olds can do bad things of their own volition and don't necessarily have to have an adult priming them.


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    #35
    Terry
    Registered Users Posts: 26,061 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    nomorebadtown wrote: »
    clearly.
    Careful now.


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    #36
    minidazzler
    Registered Users Posts: 14,739 ✭✭✭✭minidazzler


    Trog wrote: »
    Although he didn't serve the full sentance, so maybe just 1 boob?


    On Topic:
    It wasn't the 10 year old girl that was responsible for the miscarriage of justice, it was the court that condemned him for something he didn't do. He deserves compensation from them, which he will undoubtedly get if he pursues it, to the tune of a good few million yo yo's. So all's well that ends well. Messy situation, but resolved as fairly as possible.

    I'd have a lot of sympathy for her, she has to live with the consequences of her actions, but I doubt she was fully aware of them at the time. Fair play for stepping up to the plate though.

    Condemned him based on Her Statement's. Which would be taken as facts in evidence. It can be assumed someone explained to her not to lie, but someone else told her to say something else.

    <SNIP>


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    #37
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Thanks Galvasean and grumpytrousers.
    nomorebadtown, apologies for not understanding you when you explained things very badly. You were going on about those two kids being sentenced, not about their wrongdoing.


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    #38
    Kipperhell
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭Kipperhell


    Trog wrote: »

    I'd have a lot of sympathy for her, she has to live with the consequences of her actions, but I doubt she was fully aware of them at the time. Fair play for stepping up to the plate though.

    Actually she doesn't have to live with the consequences but he did. The only thing she can do is empathise and fell guilty now. If she truly wants to live with the consequences she would need some sort of penance.

    She might actually come out and tell how the whole thing came about and if any adult was leading her. There is certainly a lot more she should do to get a clear conscience.

    In saying that she is very brave to have come forward and should be willing to actually deal with the full consequences of her actions.


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    #39
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    grumpytrousers wrote: »
    I think the point is that ten years olds can do bad things of their own volition and don't necessarily have to have an adult priming them.

    While thats true, they are considered to be incapable of fulling comprehending the full effect of their actions, which is why they are legally minors, so its not quite the same.


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    #40
    nomorebadtown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 634 ✭✭✭nomorebadtown


    Galvasean wrote: »
    Someone said a ten year old isn't capable of such actions (or something to that effect) and he posted an example where ten year olds had been shown to do heinous acts.
    grumpytrousers wrote: »
    I think the point is that ten years olds can do bad things of their own volition and don't necessarily have to have an adult priming them.

    Bingo.
    Dudess wrote: »
    Thanks Galvasean and grumpytrousers.
    nomorebadtown, apologies for not understanding you when you explained things very badly. You were going on about those two kids being sentenced, not about their wrongdoing.
    You're right i didn't explain it very well. My apologies
    Terry wrote: »
    Careful now.
    Ah here, my jibe wouldnt even have drawn comment if Dudess weren't a mod. Towing the line, eh T-dog?


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    #41
    skywalker
    Registered Users Posts: 2,707 ✭✭✭skywalker


    Duckjob wrote: »
    I think the sentences served on those found guilty of falsely accusing others of sexual assaults should match those served on people convicted of those crimes.

    Id absolutely agree. Shocking case.


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    #42
    ttilting
    Closed Accounts Posts: 106 ✭✭ttilting


    Law is quite complicated.

    If this women is punished this would mean others would be slow to do what she did.... (( ie admit making it up)

    in fairness .... while the man & his family have the right to be livid ! and have been wronged ... The fact that the women came forward is quite admirable, , , there was obviously a family feud going on before the false accusations were made....

    cant help the word '' Double Jepordy '' creaping into my head ! ! .... thank god this is just a myth !

    The real villains in this case are the DPP ... ((Who in fairness, would have been slated if they had not gotten a conviction.))

    hopefully this man 7 his family are compensated with millions of Euro, , , that will help only very slighty in recompensing him for the loss of reputation, 10 years of freedom and potential earnings etc.


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    #43
    big b
    Registered Users Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭big b


    ....the Bulger case....
    Nodin wrote: »
    ...in one of the most pathetic state aided 'lynch mob' reactions of recent history.

    or...in a case where the sentence came remotely close to fitting the crime of murdering an infant

    Those little fuckers knew what they were doing. Anyone attempting to belittle their crime or give out about their punishment- for any reason- is beneath my contempt.


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    #44
    grumpytrousers
    Registered Users Posts: 1,884 ✭✭✭grumpytrousers


    Nodin wrote: »
    While thats true, they are considered to be incapable of fulling comprehending the full effect of their actions, which is why they are legally minors, so its not quite the same.

    I was making the point as a clarification; Dudess was wondering why the hell the Bulger case was introduced, and that's the point. I didn't bring it up meself.

    I see your point about ten year olds not being able to fully understand the effect of their actions. This goes back to the other point I made, though; if a person can't understand the effect of their actions, then surely, more than ever, it behoves others who DO understand the effects of these actions to check out the veracity. I'm thinking on the fly here now, so don't have some masterplan in mind, but whilst on the one hand, we don't a person who's been genuinely sexually assaulted to be the subject of a mini-investigation, there should be *some* kind of checks carried out to ensure that they're not engaging in a below the belt vendetta either.

    What happened to this young man was unpardonable. I don't recall too much about what I was like when I was ten, but I'm pretty sure that it had been drummed into me by that stage that telling lies was wrong.


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    #45
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    big b wrote: »
    ....the Bulger case....



    or...in a case where the sentence came remotely close to fitting the crime of murdering an infant

    Those little fuckers knew what they were doing. Anyone attempting to belittle their crime or give out about their punishment- for any reason- is beneath my contempt.
    I think Nodin was referring to the media salaciousness which surrounded the case.
    <SNIP>


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    #46
    useful_contacts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,821 ✭✭✭useful_contacts


    Duckjob wrote: »
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0427/hannonm.html


    This angers up the blood.

    Apparently, she gets to say sorry and walk away after ruining this mans life.

    I think the sentences served on those found guilty of falsely accusing others of sexual assaults should match those served on people convicted of those crimes.

    Something tells me the "i found god" bull is the reason she got let off


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    #47
    Loopy
    Registered Users Posts: 12,220 ✭✭✭✭Loopy


    It happened a close family friend and neighbour of ours growing up. He was accused of sexually assaulting a co-worker.

    She backed down too and withdrew her allegations 'eventually'. It destroyed him though and his relationship with his wife. He is dying of cancer now.


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    #48
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    big b wrote: »
    ....the Bulger case....
    or...in a case where the sentence came remotely close to fitting the crime of murdering an infant

    Those little fuckers knew what they were doing. Anyone attempting to belittle their crime or give out about their punishment- for any reason- is beneath my contempt.

    Yeah, lets fuck the children in with the adult criminals and see how that puts manners on them.

    By the way, where did I "belittle their crime", just as a matter of interest.....


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    #49
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    Ah sure it's ok: she was only 10. And she apologised.

    I wonder if that attitude would extend to a boy if he raped a grown woman? And then apologised later in life??

    This man has spent the last ten years living in society as a peodophile all because of one persons lie. It's sad, and it's sick.


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    #50
    javaboy
    Registered Users Posts: 15,094 ✭✭✭✭javaboy


    nomorebadtown wrote: »
    Ah here, my jibe wouldnt even have drawn comment if Dudess weren't a mod. Towing the line, eh T-dog?

    If you want to discuss the moderation of this forum, do it by PM or use the Help Desk. Do not post about it on thread.


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    #51
    big b
    Registered Users Posts: 1,432 ✭✭✭big b


    Nodin wrote: »
    Yeah, lets fuck the children in with the adult criminals and see how that puts manners on them.

    By the way, where did I "belittle their crime", just as a matter of interest.....

    They are real criminals.

    For me, making any kind of noises that a court case & jail was not fit treatment is belittling the crime. Just my opinion.


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    #52
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Zulu wrote: »
    Ah sure it's ok: she was only 10.

    Are you familiar with the concept of the age of majority?


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    #53
    Das Kitty
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 17,231 Mod ✭✭✭✭Das Kitty


    Zulu wrote: »
    Ah sure it's ok: she was only 10. And she apologised.

    I wonder if that attitude would extend to a boy if he raped a grown woman? And then apologised later in life??

    I'd imagine so.
    This man has spent the last ten years living in society as a peodophile all because of one persons lie. It's sad, and it's sick.

    This I would dispute. There was more than her lying. But yes, it is sad and it is sick.


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    #54
    gorilla_image
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34 ✭gorilla_image


    He can't think that he'd successfully sue the state, there's no wrong doing on their part. <SNIP> There's no doubt that this man and his family have suffered incredibly during this time. Sex offenders aren't well received in prison, and I'm sure his family received abuse too...

    I hate to be glib, but the only way the guy can get something out of this traversty would be to write a book and make a movie, obviously using the real names of the girl and the family... that might give him a (very slight) sense of justice and financial compensation...


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    #55
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    big b wrote: »
    They are real criminals..

    They were 10 years old.


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    #56
    Red Alert
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 7,485 ✭✭✭Red Alert


    She should be locked up, along with whomever was complicit in this. She should also be given a hefty fine to be paid to the victim she has wronged to compensate him for presumable loss of earnings from being in jail and having his good name damaged.


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    #57
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Zulu wrote: »
    Ah sure it's ok: she was only 10. And she apologised.
    It's not that she was only 10 Zulu, it's the likelihood she was told by her family (feuding with the man's family) to do this - especially considering she used really explicit terminology when testifying.
    I wonder if that attitude would extend to a boy if he raped a grown woman? And then apologised later in life??
    Not comparing like with like - she made an allegation, she didn't carry out a rape.
    This man has spent the last ten years living in society as a peodophile all because of one persons lie. It's sad, and it's sick.
    It certainly is.


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    #58
    Terry
    Registered Users Posts: 26,061 ✭✭✭✭Terry


    Dudess wrote: »
    Oh for Christ's sake, how many times do we have to read that "hilarious" joke?! And I didn't think you'd be one of the people who'd post it, minidazzler...
    Attack the post, not the poster.
    nomorebadtown wrote: »
    Ah here, my jibe wouldnt even have drawn comment if Dudess weren't a mod. Towing the line, eh T-dog?
    Towing the line?
    Me?
    I think you have me confused with someone else.
    As for the chick in question. She found God, so all is well.


    How the **** do people get away with stuff by saying they have found God?
    This is not a state run by any church*, yet courts are lenient on those who say they found God.
    What if someone was to say sorry for wasting the court's time. I'm not going to be a bad person any more.
    Would they be treated the same way?
    It's a ****ing cop out and I can't believe judges can't see past it.


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    #59
    Zulu
    Registered Users Posts: 10,965 ✭✭✭✭Zulu


    Nodin wrote: »
    Are you familiar with the concept of the age of majority?
    Not by that term, no. But I'm guessing I know it by context.

    Does it somehow contradict my post? Or prove it wholly incorrect?


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    #60
    Loomis
    Registered Users Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭Loomis


    Das Kitty wrote: »
    b) she didn't have to come forward but did

    Really don't see that as a point of to defend her really. All it says is don't punish a person for doing the right thing after doing the wrong thing.
    Her being 10 at the time, while pertinent, shouldn't come into this as much as people are making out. If she weren't 10 for instance I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have made the above point.


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    #61
    Amalgam
    Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭Amalgam


    It is amazing the man was cleared at all, given the random nature of how the false accusation came to light.

    Mr Hannon said he found out by the retractions “by chance” when a member of his family met with the complainant in November 2006.

    The case cannot be classed as a miscarriage of justice due to legalese..

    Apologies if this hasn't been posted before, but it popped up on the Irish Times website in late April. Amazing saga.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0420/breaking58.html

    Last Updated: Monday, April 20, 2009, 18:36
    Man seeks miscarriage of justice declaration
    MARY CAROLAN

    A Co Galway man has asked the Court of Criminal Appeal to declare a miscarriage of justice arising from his recently overturned conviction of sexually assaulting a 10-year-old girl more than a decade ago.

    Fechin Hannon’s 1999 conviction for the assault was quashed by the CCA last February as a result of her admission in 2006 she had made up her claims.

    Mr Hannon applied today to have the conviction declared a miscarriage of justice but the DPP opposed the application on grounds including there was no wrong doing by the State or any of its agents.

    The three-judge CCA, with Mr Justice Adrian Hardiman presiding and sitting with Mr Justice Daniel Herbert and Mr Justice John MacMenamin, reserved judgment.

    Mr Hannon of Attymon, Athenry, Co Galway, now in his mid 30s, received a suspended four-year prison sentence at Galway Circuit Court in 1999 after being found guilty by a jury of sexually assaulting and assaulting the girl near her home in the Clifden area in January 1997.

    Mr Hannon had consistently denied the charges. When withdrawing her claims in 2006 as false and entirely fabricated, the girl, now aged in her 20s, said her family had been in dispute with Mr Hannon’s family when she made the claims but she now wanted to tell the truth so his name could be cleared.

    Now living in the US, she told gardaí in statements she had decided to come clean after “finding God”.

    Hugh Hartnett SC, for Mr Hannon, said it was accepted there had been “no wrong doing on the part of the State” but his client was entitled to a declaration his conviction was a miscarriage of justice in light of the admissions made by the girl. There was nothing in law preventing Mr Hannon having his case declared a miscarriage of justice, counsel argued.

    Mr Hartnett said the DPP had not opposed the quashing of Mr Hannon’s conviction. This was a case where Mr Hannon was innocent not just in the legal sense but in the factual sense and where where the jury at Mr Hannon’s trial had got it wrong.

    Garnet Orange, for the DPP, said the application was opposed on the grounds there was no suggestion of culpability by the State. The DPP had had to act on what he believed was bona fides evidence of assault.

    In her 2006 admissions to gardaí, the woman said none of the allegations against the man were true and her motivation for making them was “revenge and misplaced loyalty to my family.” She said the two families did not get on.

    She said she had never come into contact with Mr Hannon at any stage and nor was she coerced or coached by anyone. She said she had done something terribly wrong and got away with it whereas others, especially Mr Hannon, had paid a heavy price.

    The woman also apologised to the State and all other involved in the case for wasting their time and money.

    Mr Hannon said he found out by the retractions “by chance” when a member of his family met with the complainant in November 2006. Following lengthy correspondence between his solicitor Michael Finucane and the DPP, he was given copies of the retractions in March 2008 and was told in June 2008 the DPP would not oppose any application to have his conviction quashed.


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