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COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 3 - Read OP

Beasty

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No anti-vax stuff in this thread - it's to discuss the various vaccines available and how they are getting rolled out, as well as testing procedures

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Sconsey

stefanovich wrote: »

Please enlighten me as to my motives.

Why were you not forthcoming with the whole truth?

This could be important data for some. Are you aware of any that don't leverage these cells for production or test?

So wait? you know the difference between tissue and cells and know to ask a question based on cells? You are full of it, your question was not genuine.

By the way, you asked which ones contain aborted foetal cells, the answer is still none.

ACitizenErased

Italy has become the latest country to approve AstraZeneca for over 65s.

[Deleted User]

stefanovich wrote: »

Important for you perhaps. Some people's faith or morals would cause them to pause before accepting a vaccine made in that way. A vaccine made without them would be a strong selling point for some communities.

The Vatican are grand with it.

What was done with cells lines 40 years ago is more important to some than the health of their families now? Figures

stefanovich

Deleted User wrote: »

The Vatican are grand with it.

What was done with cells lines 40 years ago is more important to some than the health of their families now? Figures

For some, yes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEK_293_cells

The cells were obtained from a single, healthy fetus, the precise origin of which is unclear.

Anyway, I wasn't barging into the conversation to dissuade. I know that other vaccines use this approach - I was wondering if any of the corona virus vaccines didn't leverage such practices.
I'll leave you all to it.

stefanovich

Deleted User wrote: »

The Vatican are grand with it.

What was done with cells lines 40 years ago is more important to some than the health of their families now? Figures

The Vatican are not my source of morality.

Necro

stefanovich wrote: »

Which contain aborted foetal cells?

stefanovich wrote: »

https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/you-asked-we-answered-do-the-covid-19-vaccines-contain-aborted-fetal-cells

Okay so they just use them in production in the case of J&J and testing for the others.

stefanovich wrote: »

For some, yes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HEK_293_cells

Anyway, I wasn't barging into the conversation to dissuade. I know that other vaccines use this approach - I was wondering if any of the corona virus vaccines didn't leverage such practices.
I'll leave you all to it.

Mod:

You will indeed leave posters to it, do not bring up this anti-vax nonsense in this thread again

Irish Stones

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Italy has become the latest country to approve AstraZeneca for over 65s.

Yes, but only up to 79 years of age.

ACitizenErased

Irish Stones wrote: »

Yes, but only up to 79 years of age.

“Starting tomorrow [ed. Monday] or the day after, there will not be any more age restrictions for the AstraZeneca vaccine, thanks to new evidence that shows its efficiency”, said Speranza.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/short_news/astrazeneca-vaccine-to-receive-all-clear-for-over-65s/

Irish Stones

ACitizenErased wrote: »

https://www.euractiv.com/section/politics/short_news/astrazeneca-vaccine-to-receive-all-clear-for-over-65s/

That same person yesterday at 4 pm, live on TV, said that the AZ vaccine was approved to person up to 79 years old. For people 80 years old and over there are the other vaccines.
I watched him saying this live on TV.

RavenBea17b

Where I see things as a timeline really goes back to earlier last year.
1.The EU were not as together in getting the ball rolling for vaccines - collaboratively.
The Vaccine Group made up of Germany, Italy, The Netherlands and France were working independently of an overall EU in getting vaccines ordered, with other EU countries to join in or act on behalf of.
2. The EC stepped in to act as a voice and one stop contact for All, as so smaller and less wealthier countries within the EU had greater purchase power and even distribution.
3. The failure of Sanofi/GSK with 300+ million doses ordered (if I recall correctly) and so delaying that timeline for expected deliveries.
4. Pfizer with 500million ordered at the time was approved BUT, it too was much lower on its expected number of doses of vaccine during January - with issues due processes creating batch serum - This compounding and rightly alarming the EU the then already known lack of vaccine availability and plans due the delayed Sanofi/GSK delivery of doses.
3.IMHO, AZ should have sounded alarm bells significantly sooner, that production and delivery was going to be so off schedule.
4. Various European media and the French president Macron have not behaved responsibly, especially in choice of phrase or word. To put fear into people who are already prone to be vaccine wary in general was wrong.
The vile headlines in the UK press playing the moral/high ground is disgusting - with +120k people passing away, with Italy about to hit +100k, with suffering for us all, just wrong.

Only by working together can we get thru this. I have family and friends in NI that it does indeed make sense to offer our neighbours, family and friends in the Republic vaccines. We need to be helping each other. Things are bad enough.

Hopefully, as more vaccines ramp up and new ones approved, the situation will improve.
More importantly vaccines need to be delivered and utilised. The process to get them into people once delivered has been shambolic in some EU states. Ireland is punching way above its EU neighbours on getting vaccines into people. Proudly so. Can things improve, yes of course, but then that is always the case.

Telecaster58

This Government gets worse and worse. In February they said that next month the vaccination programme would be "ramped up". It's now March and this morning Harris was on the radio telling us that next month, ie April it will be "ramped up". Always next month. He then blamed "supply problems" which may well be true and followed up by telling us that the Government was being honest about this and that they were being frank with people. However, they do not divulge how much vaccine is received on a daily/weekly basis and how much is distributed daily or even how much is used daily. Totally incompetent

Irish Stones

Irish Stones wrote: »

That same person yesterday at 4 pm, live on TV, said that the AZ vaccine was approved to person up to 79 years old. For people 80 years old and over there are the other vaccines.
I watched him saying this live on TV.

I'm reading that there no age limit for AZ vaccine as from today (*)
This Italian minister must have changed his mind overnight, it seems. Well, after all, what can we expect from one like him?
In the last ten months he has managed the emergency like a kid.

(*) Isn't that weird that the same drug that had been initially approved only up to 55, now it can be given to everybody, even to a 120 years old person?

ACitizenErased

Telecaster58 wrote: »

This Government gets worse and worse. In February they said that next month the vaccination programme would be "ramped up". It's now March and this morning Harris was on the radio telling us that next month, ie April it will be "ramped up". Always next month. He then blamed "supply problems" which may well be true and followed up by telling us that the Government was being honest about this and that they were being frank with people. However, they do not divulge how much vaccine is received on a daily/weekly basis and how much is distributed daily or even how much is used daily. Totally incompetent

By 'may well be true' you mean it is 100% true? Because it is.

It's been well explained why weekly distribution isn't being released. It's because the regular Irish public won't be able to wrap their heads around the fact that we need to keep second doses back.

ACitizenErased

Irish Stones wrote: »

I'm reading that there no age limit for AZ vaccine as from today (*)
This Italian minister must have changed her mind overnight, it seems. Well, after all, what can we expect from one like him?
In the last ten months he has managed the emergency like a kid.

(*) Isn't that weird that the same drug that had been initially approved only up to 55, now it can be given to everybody, even to a 120 years old person?

Not weird at all, there's plenty of evidence now

Irish Stones

Telecaster58 wrote: »

This Government gets worse and worse. In February they said that next month the vaccination programme would be "ramped up". It's now March and this morning Harris was on the radio telling us that next month, ie April it will be "ramped up". Always next month. He then blamed "supply problems" which may well be true and followed up by telling us that the Government was being honest about this and that they were being frank with people. However, they do not divulge how much vaccine is received on a daily/weekly basis and how much is distributed daily or even how much is used daily. Totally incompetent

In certain pubs there's a sign saying "Free Beer Tomorrow". Tomorrow.

ceegee

Telecaster58 wrote: »

This Government gets worse and worse. In February they said that next month the vaccination programme would be "ramped up". It's now March and this morning Harris was on the radio telling us that next month, ie April it will be "ramped up". Always next month. He then blamed "supply problems" which may well be true and followed up by telling us that the Government was being honest about this and that they were being frank with people. However, they do not divulge how much vaccine is received on a daily/weekly basis and how much is distributed daily or even how much is used daily. Totally incompetent

They give regular updates on how much stock has been received, think the last figures were upto the end of February.
We get a breakdown of how much is used daily, split by brands, cohorts, 1st or 2nd dose. What more Information can they give?

is_that_so

Telecaster58 wrote: »

This Government gets worse and worse. In February they said that next month the vaccination programme would be "ramped up". It's now March and this morning Harris was on the radio telling us that next month, ie April it will be "ramped up". Always next month. He then blamed "supply problems" which may well be true and followed up by telling us that the Government was being honest about this and that they were being frank with people. However, they do not divulge how much vaccine is received on a daily/weekly basis and how much is distributed daily or even how much is used daily. Totally incompetent

Not the government for about the 50th time, it's the H-S-E! As for your beef with supplies I'll borrow a post from earlier - do some research.

Why not start with this one on vaccine plans? Guess what, it has totals in it!

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/dd66b-statement-on-covid-19-vaccine-supplies/

brickster69

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Not weird at all, there's plenty of evidence now

As Spain recorded 637 deaths and only used a third of it's AZ. It still only gives to under 55's.

How many live has this cost, must be hundreds by now.

astrofool

Telecaster58 wrote: »

This Government gets worse and worse. In February they said that next month the vaccination programme would be "ramped up". It's now March and this morning Harris was on the radio telling us that next month, ie April it will be "ramped up". Always next month. He then blamed "supply problems" which may well be true and followed up by telling us that the Government was being honest about this and that they were being frank with people. However, they do not divulge how much vaccine is received on a daily/weekly basis and how much is distributed daily or even how much is used daily. Totally incompetent

The vaccine rollout will "ramp up" each month as supply increases, we got more in February then we got in January, and will get more in March then we got in February.

In April we will get more then we got this month, all the way to June.

Would you prefer they were ramping down?

Or do you mistakenly believe that "ramped up" means vaccines for all immediately, because that isn't going to happen.

eigrod

Interesting news from the US

https://twitter.com/statnews/status/1368955031068815363?s=21

RavenBea17b

Dubai Health Authorities announced a few days ago that they were extending AZ dose interval to 10 weeks. As UK is now over 1.122m second doses, to the 6th March and is now planned to really start ramping up, roughly 100k per day then increase again incrementally.
I saw yesterday that Israel is opening up again, as long as you have the all important green pass system they have.

I wonder if other countries will change their 2nd dose policy for AZ now that more and more real time data is available?

hmmm

RavenBea17b wrote: »

3. The failure of Sanofi/GSK with 300+ million doses ordered (if I recall correctly) and so delaying that timeline for expected deliveries.

Great post. The failure of Sanofi/GSK was an enormous blow and completely unexpected - they've managed to escape much mention, but I think history won't look kindly on them. The EU didn't want to throw everything at Pfizer/Moderna because:
a) There was no guarantee whatsoever that the technology would work
b) They were seen as 'US' vaccines and so subject to whatever capricious export laws Trump may have imposed.

The other thing the US & UK got right was that they threw money at the manufacturers early to build capacity. The EU has waited until the vaccines were a success to start helping with the manufacturing issues. I think that's an institutional weakness with the EU Commission taking on an unfamiliar role, and not having the authority to allocate money to vaccines which may or may not have worked. If we'd been here today and the Pfizer & Moderna vaccines had both failed in trials, it would be a different picture I think, with countries congratulating the EU on not having wasted funds.

Anyway, we are where we are, and hindsight abounds.

User142

RavenBea17b wrote: »

More importantly vaccines need to be delivered and utilised. The process to get them into people once delivered has been shambolic in some EU states. Ireland is punching way above its EU neighbours on getting vaccines into people. Proudly so. Can things improve, yes of course, but then that is always the case.

Our politicians bragging about us being great relative to Europe is annoying. People are annoyed at the overall slow pace of the rollout not our rate of utilization of received doses. The rest of Europe has the same slow rollout problem as us.

It wasn't that long ago that RTE used to convert the Norths cases into "that would X number of cases in the Republic." to emphasis how f*cked things up there were in comparison to here. Funnily they never do it for the number of vaccines being put into arms up there now.

Wolf359f

RavenBea17b wrote: »

Dubai Health Authorities announced a few days ago that they were extending AZ dose interval to 10 weeks. As UK is now over 1.122m second doses, to the 6th March and is now planned to really start ramping up, roughly 100k per day then increase again incrementally.
I saw yesterday that Israel is opening up again, as long as you have the all important green pass system they have.

I wonder if other countries will change their 2nd dose policy for AZ now that more and more real time data is available?

I think 12 weeks is the standard dosing gap for AZ. The UK are following the manufacturer guidelines. It's Pfizer where they are delaying the second dose out to 12 weeks.

RavenBea17b

stephenjmcd wrote: »

It really wasn't, all along April, May and June have been mentioned for an large increase in supply. It was well flagged that the first few months would be difficult and Q1 supplies would be limited.

Wolf359f wrote: »

I think 12 weeks is the standard dosing gap for AZ. The UK are following the manufacturer guidelines. It's Pfizer where they are delaying the second dose out to 12 weeks.

Yes, the UK is differing from dosage gap from Pfizer, but I guess they wanted to get as many people some protection. My point was that for AZ Dubai has announce the change to 10 weeks - I think if I recall they were dosing at 6 weeks - could be mistaken on the 6 weeks bit.

UK is planning to ramp up 2nd dosage now, my own doctor mentioned 10 weeks expectation for gap. we will see what happens.

astrofool

User142 wrote: »

Our politicians bragging about us being great relative to Europe is annoying. People are annoyed at the overall slow pace of the rollout not our rate of utilization of received doses. The rest of Europe has the same slow rollout problem as us.

It wasn't that long ago that RTE used to convert the Norths cases into "that would X number of cases in the Republic." to emphasis how f*cked things up there were in comparison to here. Funnily they never do it for the number of vaccines being put into arms up there now.

I think it's been pretty much wall to wall coverage on slow vaccine rollout and supply chain issues, most comparisons have been with the UK instead of NI, but they happen pretty frequently.

What's important is that the most vulnerable who had the highest % of dying have been vaccinated, we're now building on top of a solid base, the risk drops off exponentially for the groups as we work down, once group 3-6 are done (probably sometime in April), the program is really about stopping the spread and reducing the small remaing % risk of people dying (remembering that each % is a human life for every 100 people who catch the disease).

is_that_so

The blocking of vaccine exports may not be a one-off according to Ursula.

Ursula von der Leyen has warned that the European Union could block further exports of the coronavirus vaccine, after Italy stopped a shipment to Australia.

"That was not a one-off," the president of the European Commission told business weekly Wirtschaftswoche.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0308/1201572-coronavirus-global/

trellheim

Hard data : supposedly from the paul reid interview

1.2 million doses by end Q1

https://assets.gov.ie/125406/1de31afa-6beb-4dae-a6ad-f7e6b3ec1081.png

Means we will see 1,200,000-(166382+312990) =720,628 vaccines delivered by the end of the month ? its 8 march already .... unless its magic fairies on past numbers we'd need to over double feb's deliveries.... no doubt I will quote this post in 3 weeks time with eating of hat

Micky 32

eigrod wrote: »

Interesting news from the US

https://twitter.com/statnews/status/1368955031068815363?s=21

To expand on that :

https://twitter.com/bnodesk/status/1368955846483402753?s=21

ACitizenErased

trellheim wrote: »

Hard data : supposedly from the paul reid interview

1.2 million doses by end Q1

https://assets.gov.ie/125406/1de31afa-6beb-4dae-a6ad-f7e6b3ec1081.png

Means we will see 1,200,000-(166382+312990) =720,628 vaccines delivered by the end of the month ? its 8 march already .... unless its magic fairies on past numbers we'd need to over double feb's deliveries.... no doubt I will quote this post in 3 weeks time with eating of hat

There's 200,000 scheduled to arrive on the last day of March alone