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COVID-19: Vaccine and testing procedures Megathread Part 3 - Read OP

Beasty

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No anti-vax stuff in this thread - it's to discuss the various vaccines available and how they are getting rolled out, as well as testing procedures

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Tippbhoy1

stefanovich wrote: »

The EU gave late approval. How many doses should AZ have manufactured at risk beforehand?

Blocking the shipment and threatening article 16. She's just going bananas now.

AZ applied to the EU for approval almost a month after they applied to the UK.
You’re just grasping at straws, hiding behind contracts for a few posts now defending the indefensible based on perceived company risk assessments. Are you implying if they approved earlier.....that we would have more supply? I doubt it. What was produced in the EU during the approval process was just shifted over to the UK. We approved 4 weeks later, and it’s been a sh1t show regardless. A shambles of a company.

stephenjmcd

Elessar wrote: »

Fair play to the EU and Italy. Astrazeneca using EU plants to export hundreds of thousands of life saving vaccines outside the bloc while unable to supply the EU itself. They won't even use the UK plants as the UK won't allow them to export. Also the US has blocked exports until it gets the vaccines it needs.

I 100% support this decision. All future AZ shipments outside the bloc should be blocked until European citizens get the vaccines they were promised.

So will you complain then if say India puts the same measures in place and the EU can't get 50% of its Q2 AZ order ??

I guarantee most people saying oh block them leaving the bloc will be the same people complaining if another country blocks exports to the EU.

While the AZ issues are well documented and a mess, this can easily backfire

josip

One thing is certain in all of this.
With vaccine nationalism becoming more prevalent, Ireland is way better off being part of the EU bloc, than on its own or aligned with the UK.

Gael23

The EU has blocked a shipment from leaving an AZ factory in Italy bound for Australia

stefanovich

stephenjmcd wrote: »

So will you complain then if say India puts the same measures in place and the EU can't get 50% of its Q2 AZ order ??

I guarantee most people saying oh block them leaving the bloc will be the same people complaining if another country blocks exports to the EU.

While the AZ issues are well documented and a mess, this can easily backfire

Treat others as you expect to be treated. Blocking exports is not going to make them any friends that's for sure. And opens up the risk of retaliation in kind.

NeuralNetwork

average_runner wrote: »

But is there a trade agreement with Australia and EU? Its all getting very messy now

There’s a pending trade agreement, but trade agreements are narrow and specific. They’re not just a case of total free for all or a single market. A lot of people seem to forget that.

The EU has, internally, a philosophy of maintaining a seamless, internal single market. It’s the only example of that anywhere in the world, outside of the internal markets of federal states like the USA.

A trade agreement doesn’t give you the same level of access as an EU member state nor does one with the USA give you access like a US state.

Australia isn’t about to go off in a hissy fit about this anymore than it would with the USA, as it needs access to the EU market, as a major exporter.

The commentary is being driven largely by Brexiteers, despite the fact the U.K. has been doing exactly the same thing!

stefanovich

josip wrote: »

One thing is certain in all of this.
With vaccine nationalism becoming more prevalent, Ireland is way better off being part of the EU bloc, than on its own or aligned with the UK.

If we were aligned with the UK 30% of the adult population would be vaccinated now. Oh wait, it's the HSE, maybe not.

Elessar

stephenjmcd wrote: »

So will you complain then if say India puts the same measures in place and the EU can't get 50% of its Q2 AZ order ??

I guarantee most people saying oh block them leaving the bloc will be the same people complaining if another country blocks exports to the EU.

While the AZ issues are well documented and a mess, this can easily backfire

You mean if India blocked AZ exports because AZ promised to deliver millions of vaccines then completely reneged on that promise, while trying to export doses to other countries? No I wouldn't, as they would be putting their citizens first. Just like the EU.

[Deleted User]

stefanovich wrote: »

If we were aligned with the UK 30% of the adult population would be vaccinated now. Oh wait, it's the HSE, maybe not.

Ah jaysus

NeuralNetwork

stefanovich wrote: »

If we were aligned with the UK 30% of the adult population would be vaccinated now. Oh wait, it's the HSE, maybe not.

Aligned with them how though? Do you think that Boris and the lads are going to have some kind of warm and cuddly response to a 3rd party using their supply chains?

There’s no structure to align with them on or through, but we are in the EU and there’s a highly developed structure and also a strong philosophy of solidarity between members, commitments to open markets between members and do on.

On what basis would we align with the U.K. and why would they want to facilitate that? We would at best end up as a 3rd party trying to ride on coattails.

We would have been going it alone. Maybe we could have bought more, maybe we couldn’t. We didn’t do all that great on PPE on our own in a scramble for it.

PCeeeee

stefanovich wrote: »

If we were aligned with the UK 30% of the adult population would be vaccinated now. Oh wait, it's the HSE, maybe not.

Define aligned?

timsey tiger

stefanovich wrote: »

They also have a much better contract.

Not according to CNN.

average_runner

josip wrote: »

One thing is certain in all of this.
With vaccine nationalism becoming more prevalent, Ireland is way better off being part of the EU bloc, than on its own or aligned with the UK.

Why you believe that?

Surely the logically thing to do was to have our own order and the EU order like some other countries did!!!

timsey tiger

stefanovich wrote: »

Politico did a comparison. I've already posted it a few times! AZ will avoid litigation. The EU contract only required "best effort".

I wonder what was redacted and on whose request? Who are they hiding the detail from? Us?

UK contact also best effort

stephenjmcd

average_runner wrote: »

Why you believe that?

Surely the logically thing to do was to have our own order and the EU order like some other countries did!!!

And as has been explained on here numerous times, pharmaceutical companies aren't delivering additional orders to EU countries until the EU order itself is fulfilled.

We could order a few million extra Pfizer doses on our own for example and wouldn't get them delivered until end of year or later, by which time we'd already have enough.

average_runner

stephenjmcd wrote: »

And as has been explained on here numerous times, pharmaceutical companies aren't delivering additional orders to EU countries until the EU order itself is fulfilled.

We could order a few million extra Pfizer doses on our own for example and wouldn't get them delivered until end of year or later, by which time we'd already have enough.

Sure we've enough ordered already to do over 10 million people

Well Denmark and Austria are thinking of other ways while we sit on our arse and cry

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronaviurs-vaccine-europe-idUSKBN2AU11D

Tippbhoy1

average_runner wrote: »

Why you believe that?

Surely the logically thing to do was to have our own order and the EU order like some other countries did!!!

If the order was from the same suppliers, it makes no difference as the eu order has to be fulfilled first. If you are talking about going it alone with a non eu approved vaccine, that could have been done in theory but you’d have to deal with Vlad or Xi. There is also the matter of economies of scale.

Tippbhoy1

average_runner wrote: »

Well Denmark and Austria are thinking of other ways while we sit on our arse and cry

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronaviurs-vaccine-europe-idUSKBN2AU11D

As far as I can see most of the crying is coming from people who spend a lot of time commenting but not a lot of time informing themselves. The article above relates to long term vaccine strategy, this will have no impact on current supplies this year.

BringBackMick

The brass neck of AZ to start shipping from EU to Australia after they left us so short.

They must really have it in for the EU

is_that_so

average_runner wrote: »

Well Denmark and Austria are thinking of other ways while we sit on our arse and cry

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronaviurs-vaccine-europe-idUSKBN2AU11D

Danish participation not guaranteed, they are getting stick for it at home.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/03/denmark-under-pressure-to-drop-plans-to-work-with-israel-on-vaccines

astrofool

stefanovich wrote: »

If we were aligned with the UK 30% of the adult population would be vaccinated now. Oh wait, it's the HSE, maybe not.

If we were aligned with the UK we would also have 10,000 more dead people than we currently have now (but I'm guessing based on your posting history about US politics, that you're completely fine with lots of dead people during a pandemic).

The UK has made an omnishambles of the entire pandemic, and the end result will be that they're a few weeks ahead of the EU having nationalised production of the least efficacious vaccine available, and with the EU playing nice with them by allowing the most efficacious mRNA vaccines to still be shipped to them.

They have also torn down any shred of good will that AZ had for getting the Oxford, partly EU funded, vaccine produced in time (despite them completely f*cking up their trials with wrong dosages and under represented elderly).

Also have to laugh at this comment, this is exactly what the UK has done, yet here you are whooping and hollering for how they approached it:

stefanovich wrote: »

Treat others as you expect to be treated. Blocking exports is not going to make them any friends that's for sure. And opens up the risk of retaliation in kind.

So which is it, play nice like the EU have, or play dirty like the UK have?

Don't be posting in bad faith and twisting the facts to suit your narrative please.

Amirani

average_runner wrote: »

Well Denmark and Austria are thinking of other ways while we sit on our arse and cry

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronaviurs-vaccine-europe-idUSKBN2AU11D

"None of the three countries has significant vaccine making capacity, however, raising questions over how realistic their ambitions are to gain greater self-sufficiency."

That's not much use to them.

Tippbhoy1

BringBackMick wrote: »

The brass neck of AZ to start shipping from EU to Australia after they left us so short.

They must really have it in for the EU

I’m really starting to wonder at this point if AZ are calling any shots in this, and are they just a front for the UK government. The level of two fingers given repeatedly to the EU is astounding.

hotmail.com

Deleted User wrote: »

By that measure the UK rate is only 1.5%

So then 94% have not received any vaccine here yet, first or second.

hotmail.com

Deleted User wrote: »

That's not what the OP said. If the had said 94% it would be comparing apples with apples

I wasn't making any comparison with the UK.

JacksonHeightsOwn

If it me or are the Germans really ruling the EU at the moment, but clearly have made a dogs dinner out of the vaccine procurement and now are throwing their highly efficiently made toys out of their prams.

If von der Leyen was the stand alone leader of one country, she'd have been forced to resign long ago over her leadership.

astrofool

brickster69 wrote: »

Twitter groupthink drop

Do you want them to start blocking Pfizer shipments to the UK and implement a full export ban?

brickster69

astrofool wrote: »

Oxford, partly EU funded,

The EU never funded the vaccine for one penny. It just paid for some EU plants to expand production. Australia committed to purchase far earlier than the EU if it got approval or not.

average_runner

chrisbonnie wrote: »

If it me or are the Germans really ruling the EU at the moment, but clearly have made a dogs dinner out of the vaccine procurement and now are throwing their highly efficiently made toys out of their prams.

If von der Leyen was the stand alone leader of one country, she'd have been forced to resign long ago over her leadership.

Suits Merkel for Von Der Leyen to screw up

astrofool

brickster69 wrote: »

The EU never funded the vaccine for one penny. It just paid for some EU plants to expand production. Australia committed to purchase far earlier than the EU if it got approval or not.

Liar:
https://www.researchprofessionalnews.com/rr-news-uk-universities-2020-7-brexit-funding-gap-for-oxford-s-covid-19-vaccine-institute/

"Responding to a question from Research Professional News on the impact of Brexit on vaccine development during a Science Media Centre briefing on 20 July, Hill said that while the Covid-19 vaccine did not rely on EU funding, the institute does rely heavily on funding from the European Commission."