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COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

Masala

Today being Paddy Day 2020... when do you think we will have a ‘flu jab’ / pill / syrup that we can take to make us immune/ les likely to catch this 19 virus?.

Mod: The purpose of this thread is baked into the title - COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures - it's not a platform to push an anti vaccination agenda. If posters wish to discuss the perceived cons of vaccinations, or push various theories regarding 'the agenda' (whatever that is supposed to mean), open a thread elsewhere on it.

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ShineOn7

is_that_so wrote: »

It's still a trial - out of the University of Southampton. Next I believe is Phase III. IIRC this Phase II started in July.

Thanks

Best guess at when it'll be in Ireland? Q2 next year maybe?

That coupled with a vaccine rollout to the over 60s and Frontline workers by the end of Q2 2021 would be a seriously strong double punch to this b@stard

is_that_so

ShineOn7 wrote: »

Thanks

Best guess at when it'll be in Ireland? Q2 next year maybe?

That coupled with a vaccine rollout to the over 60s and Frontline workers by the end of Q2 2021 would be a seriously strong double punch to this b@stard

Whenever they get through the trials I suppose, so yeah probably Q2 or later.

ShowMeTheCash

Irish Stones wrote: »

I don't think that immunity from Covid only lasts 3 months or so.
If it was this way, lots of people, included me, would have contracted the virus again now, because I got out of it 7 months ago.
And I'm potentially daily exposed to the virus, as is my wife, and none of us two has got the virus again in these last 7 months.
My wife gets tested regularly, and she's been fine so far, as are all her workmates and colleagues.

The 3 months figure I think has come about from people who have seeminly got Covid twice, I know the numbers are small but it has been documented. I think in these cases what they have found is it was a different strain of Covid they caught the second time around.
Which rasies a few questions, how many strains of covid is doing the rounds and what is the rate of change?

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/08/200803105246.htm

Currenly I think they are saying 6 strains will this grow?

Will the vaccine need to adapt also?

polesheep

funnydoggy wrote: »

Oh definitely. I know all about it but the people I try to discuss it with don't, and many are just unwilling to listen. Frustrating!

And are you listening to them?

funnydoggy

polesheep wrote: »

And are you listening to them?

Rushed vaccine

Bill Gates

5g

etc.

No thanks!

polesheep

funnydoggy wrote: »

Rushed vaccine

Bill Gates

5g

etc.

No thanks.

Then you aren't discussing it with them. You won't persuade people easily if you don't listen to them. We all want to be heard. Why not give them a book on Edward Jenner for Christmas and have the discussion again in the new year?

[Deleted User]

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1327125840040169472?s=20

hmmm

Deleted User wrote: »

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1327125840040169472?s=20

I'm sad to think I respected him before this pandemic.

If you'd read this thread you'd have seen some of the people who know what they are talking about saying that the current rapid antigen tests are unreliable, and why they haven't been recommended for use here.

Musk in his tweets later says he has potential symptoms.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Deleted User wrote: »

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1327125840040169472?s=20

Theres a reason we dont use rapid antigen tests.

He should go and get a pcr.

[Deleted User]

hmmm wrote: »

I'm sad to think I respected him before this pandemic.

If you'd read this thread you'd have seen some of the people who know what they are talking about saying that the current rapid antigen tests are unreliable, and why they haven't been recommended for use here.

Musk in his tweets later says he has potential symptoms.

He said "symptoms of a typical cold. Nothing unusual thus far".

Shocking that they're using such unreliable tests anyway. Goes to show how inaccurate their figures could be over past months.

The HorsesMouth

I've noticed that a lot of the people who are saying you won't see me getting a vaccine and they won't use me as a guinea pig are the exact same people who were saying in the summer..you won't see my kids going back to school and they wont use my kids as guinea pigs.
In the end..most of these kids are in school and i think you'll see most of these people getting this vaccine too.

ShowMeTheCash

Hmmzis wrote: »

Well, vaccines are supposes to induce GC creation if designed and dosed right (the complete oposite what the virus is doing).

As I say this is not my field of study but I am curious, and I have read a number or artciles around vaccination durability. I notice you keep mentioning HPV which has proven to be a success in terms of durability which is a win but I also read that there are a number of viruses that are hard to vaccinate against so we cannot use HPV as the litmus.

My understanding is natural immune response can fall into a number of categories and most vaccines will mimic the same immune response.

We don't have a vaccine for common colds because the virus can naturally be forgotton within week of infection so getting a long lasting vaccines for all the strains is seeminly huge task.

Some vaccines and viruses give life long immunity usually not gauranteed people on occastion do get the chicken pox twice but for the most part they don't.

Then we have things like a tetanus vaccine which lasts like 10 years and if you get a deep cut etc you will probably get the jab if you have not had one in a while.

So the actual virus seems to dictate to some degree the immute response which in turn seems to dictate or at least in part the durability and (theta) longevity of immunity.

Hmmzis wrote: »

That's most likely based off some observations they've done following up phase 1/2 participants and maybe some known models that look like a decent fit? Good enough for finger in the air tuff.

Yeah that makes sense - Risk models are complicated and you would be amazed at how they can change with more data that much I know a lot about.

Hmmzis wrote: »

As the article states, sensory neurons, that's very far from the brain. It's a very informative article, thank for posting it.

I actually remembered this being said in a lacture I just cannot find it so I am trying to remember was it the brain or the trigeminal ganglia which is basically located at the base of the skull so not that far at all.

The artcile when it talks about sensory neurons is refering to inital infection, so essentally your lips which makes sense but it goes on to say:

"When researchers examined the virus's behavior in cells obtained from clusters of nerve cells known as trigeminal ganglia" which seeminly orchastrates this dance of activation and hiberation.

here is a little video explanation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_2rARaxhz4

hmmm

Deleted User wrote: »

He said "symptoms of a typical cold. Nothing unusual thus far".

Shocking that they're using such unreliable tests anyway. Goes to show how inaccurate their figures could be over past months.

We are not using rapid antigen tests to test people, so you're probably better off trying to spread uncertainty and misinformation in some other threads.

I believe they have been very popular tests in Trump's White House however, which seems to be riddled with the virus.

ShowMeTheCash

polesheep wrote: »

Then you aren't discussing it with them. You won't persuade people easily if you don't listen to them. We all want to be heard. Why not give them a book on Edward Jenner for Christmas and have the discussion again in the new year?

I think people are buy into hard conspiricies with no real education or understanding of basic concepts are mentally ill, I know a number who do not believe in a single conspiricy but lots! You cannot resaon with unreasonable people. It's almost like trying to argue over religion!

[Deleted User]

hmmm wrote: »

We are not using rapid antigen tests to test people, so you're probably better off trying to spread uncertainty and misinformation in some other threads.

I believe they have been very popular tests in Trump's White House however, which seems to be riddled with the virus.

I was referring to the United States. Hence I said "their figures".

ShineOn7

Deleted User wrote: »

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1327125840040169472?s=20

He's the world's wealthiest troll

I've lost so much respect for Musk in the last year or two

polesheep

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

I think people are buy into hard conspiricies with no real education or understanding of basic concepts are mentally ill, I know a number who do not believe in a single conspiricy but lots! You cannot resaon with unreasonable people. It's almost like trying to argue over religion!

I'm not suggesting that you can easily persuade an anti-vaxxer, but I don't believe that there are as many of those as is often made out. There is a tendency at the moment to lump everyone who has concerns around a new and hastily created vaccine in with the anti-vaxxers and then throw in things like 5G and other nonsense.

ginoginelli

ShineOn7 wrote: »

He's the world's wealthiest troll

I've lost so much respect for Musk in the last year or two

He's actually shown himself to be straight up evil. Deliberately misconstruing data and disseminating it on twitter, all so he can keep his manufacturing going and money rolling in.

Irish Stones

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/08/200803105246.htm

Currenly I think they are saying 6 strains will this grow?

Will the vaccine need to adapt also?

Interesting article, though I now wonder where Italy is geographically positioned, because according to the article, apparently, it isn't in Europe

The article is a bit old, 3 months at least, I wonder if one or two more strains have develop meanwhile. In August, those utation weren't going to affect the effectiveness of a possible vaccine. Who knows now...

P.S.: Just to add a bit of info, the article mentions "Federico Giorgi, a researcher at Unibo", for those who might be interested, Unibo stands for UNIversity of BOlogna.

Irish Stones

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Then we have things like a tetanus vaccine which lasts like 10 years and if you get a deep cut etc you will probably get the jab if you have not had one in a while.

I've been often told that if you get a deep cut or bad open injury and end up in an emergency room at the hospital, they will give you a shot of tetanus vaccine regardless your current condition, because you could not have up to date your vaccination record with you, or you might not be in a physical state that you can tell them you have a valid vaccination.

ShowMeTheCash

polesheep wrote: »

I'm not suggesting that you can easily persuade an anti-vaxxer, but I don't believe that there are as many of those as is often made out. There is a tendency at the moment to lump everyone who has concerns around a new and hastily created vaccine in with the anti-vaxxers and then throw in things like 5G and other nonsense.

OK let me explain it this way and look there are caveats:

"Hastily created vaccine"

What do you know about virology or vaccines?

Lets say one lab of 25 scientist work on a vaccine for 10 years and they come up with a vaccine.

Lets also say you have 100 Labs with 50 scinetist work on the same vaccines and thet come up with a vaccine in 1 year.

Which is the hasty vaccines?

Considering the 1 year vaccine will have 5000 man years of development
And the 10 year vaccines has 250 man years of development

The caveat being time and testing long term effects but current vaccines are built on existing data which effectively makes vaccines much safter today than they where previously the technology today is exponentially better than 5 years ago, 10 years ago 20 years ago etc etc

funnydoggy

polesheep wrote: »

I'm not suggesting that you can easily persuade an anti-vaxxer, but I don't believe that there are as many of those as is often made out. There is a tendency at the moment to lump everyone who has concerns around a new and hastily created vaccine in with the anti-vaxxers and then throw in things like 5G and other nonsense.

I agree with you polesheep, but I'm not trying to put anyone in boxes. It's just what I'm seeing at the moment - those who are the most vocal with regards to vaccines usually do at some point follow along with those kinda conspiracy theories.

polesheep

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

OK let me explain it this way and look there are caveats:

"Hastily created vaccine"

What do you know about virology or vaccines?

Lets say one lab of 25 scientist work on a vaccine for 10 years and they come up with a vaccine.

Lets also say you have 100 Labs with 50 scinetist work on the same vaccines and thet come up with a vaccine in 1 year.

Which is the hasty vaccines?

Considering the 1 year vaccine will have 5000 man years of development
And the 10 year vaccines has 250 man years of development

The caveat being time and testing long term effects but current vaccines are built on existing data which effectively makes vaccines much safter today than they where previously the technology today is exponentially better than 5 years ago, 10 years ago 20 years ago etc etc

I have a good understanding of how vaccines work and I am very pro-vaccine. I hope all of the current vaccines being worked on are very successful, for many reasons. But even if every related scientist in the world were working on them it would still be hasty and that is where concerns are naturally coming from. I'm quite confident, however, that we will have a safe vaccine with no real issues, but people's legitimate concerns must be addressed rationally and not be simply dismissed as anti-vaxx if the roll-out is to be a success.

polesheep

funnydoggy wrote: »

I agree with you polesheep, but I'm not trying to put anyone in boxes. It's just what I'm seeing at the moment - those who are the most vocal with regards to vaccines usually do at some point follow along with those kinda conspiracy theories.

You'll see lots of conspiracy theorists on social media, not so much in the real world.

funnydoggy

polesheep wrote: »

You'll see lots of conspiracy theorists on social media, not so much in the real world.

Thankfully :pac:

[Deleted User]

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

I think people are buy into hard conspiricies with no real education or understanding of basic concepts are mentally ill, I know a number who do not believe in a single conspiricy but lots! You cannot resaon with unreasonable people. It's almost like trying to argue over religion!

I see Bill Gates and "anti-vax" were mentioned prior as "conspiracies".

A lot of us were saying Bill Gates is a main funder of the vaccines that will eventually be approved and rolled out. The reason being is that he's also a primary funder of the UN and WHO, both very influential. Well, the Pfizer/BioNTech vax now seems to be leading the way, which is indeed one of his. So, that turned out to be true. I've said any "support" vaccines rolled out will also be his as well, for similar reasons. Look for AstraZeneca and Moderna in this regard.

Forget the "Bill Gates wants to chip people" malarkey. We were saying, at the very least, this is largely financially driven and the potential profits are astronomical.

As for the "anti-vax" thing; I'm not "anti" or "pro" vax. It's the lack of long-term safety trials, and the fact that this is a new, experimental RNA vaccine, that is concerning. Also how indemnity is being sought by the pharmaceutical companies (and who can blame them).

We were also concerned that these vaccines could eventually become mandatory, which was considered "conspiracy" a few months back. The worry was that they'd coerce through exclusion from travel, concerts, sporting events etc for those not willing to take it. Well, now Ticketmaster have got the ball rolling in this regard. It's a potential sign of things to come, and a slippery slope.

Forget the more out there conspiracies you may be referring to. These concerns are legitimate and understandable.

Find below a procurement notice from the MHRA (UK Gov) seeking software to track "the expected high volume of Covid-19 vaccine adverse drug reactions":
https://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED:NOTICE:506291-2020:TEXT:EN:HTML&tabId=1

3xh

Irish Stones wrote: »

I've been often told that if you get a deep cut or bad open injury and end up in an emergency room at the hospital, they will give you a shot of tetanus vaccine regardless your current condition, because you could not have up to date your vaccination record with you, or you might not be in a physical state that you can tell them you have a valid vaccination.

Nothing a centralised eHealth database wouldn’t solve!

ShowMeTheCash

polesheep wrote: »

I have a good understanding of how vaccines work and I am very pro-vaccine. I hope all of the current vaccines being worked on are very successful, for many reasons. But even if every related scientist in the world were working on them it would still be hasty and that is where concerns are naturally coming from. I'm quite confident, however, that we will have a safe vaccine with no real issues, but people's legitimate concerns must be addressed rationally and not be simply dismissed as anti-vaxx if the roll-out is to be a success.

You are making a claim here, what I am saying is your claim is based on a poor understanding of how vaccines are developed.

Thierry12

[Deleted User] wrote: »

He said "symptoms of a typical cold. Nothing unusual thus far".

Shocking that they're using such unreliable tests anyway. Goes to show how inaccurate their figures could be over past months.

Looking at it completely arse ways

They are in fact very accurate

Antigen tests catch sick people, people with the disease, who are very contagious

PCR catches alot of people who are not sick, not contagious and dont have the disease, just the infection

[Deleted User]

ShowMeTheCash wrote: »

Lets also say you have 100 Labs with 50 scinetist work on the same vaccines and thet come up with a vaccine in 1 year.

Which is the hasty vaccines?

You still as enthusiastic for the annual vaxxes now with the large number of expected side-effects? :rolleyes: