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Child Item

How will schools be able to go back in September?

shoppergal

Just wondering if anyone can give any insight into how schools could safely re-open in September?

Everyone I'm talking to is saying they won't be back until September but in my head I'm wondering how they'll re-open even in September? The virus will still be there with a vaccine still months away at that stage.

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Murple

Taken from an article in the Irish Independent:

Privately, a number of political sources close to Mr Martin, and also those close to the other coalition parties, believe the political consequences for the Government will be ruinous if the schools fail to open for pupils five days a week.
“Nothing is more important for the Government politically,” said one high-ranking source. “Nothing.”

Just in case anyone is under the illusion that the government actually care about the education of children or the need for considerations about health and safety of a million citizens and their families.

Sammy2012

the corpo wrote: »

Aye, the only way students from 3rd class to 6th year can return fully to school is if the social distancing recommendation is entirely ignored.

If that is their plan, then I can't imagine I'll let my kids go back... but I can't imagine how we'll cope at home either, and this is where the Department is putting us...

Whatever about primary school kids but what is the different between and 18yr old in June (secondary school) and an 18yr old in September (college) One no worries about social distancing in school full time and the other in college one week out of 3!

the corpo

average_runner wrote: »

Kids aren't social distancing outside school right now. So no point in having it in the schools

Mine are. Most of my friends kids are social distancing. Some aren't.

It's July, loads of kids would traditionally be away now, if they were all out on the greens mingling each park in Ireland would look like Slane.

And again, outdoors transmission is entirely different to indoors transmission.

lulublue22

Murple wrote: »

Taken from an article in the Irish Independent:

Privately, a number of political sources close to Mr Martin, and also those close to the other coalition parties, believe the political consequences for the Government will be ruinous if the schools fail to open for pupils five days a week.
“Nothing is more important for the Government politically,” said one high-ranking source. “Nothing.”

Just in case anyone is under the illusion that the government actually care about the education of children or the need for considerations about health and safety of a million citizens and their families.

I’d well believe that - it seems to me that the gov are pursuing a stimulus approach to economic recovery. Children will need to be in school to allow parents to work.

mirrorwall14

average_runner wrote: »

Kids aren't social distancing outside school right now. So no point in having it in the schools

You have thirty teenagers in one room of your house for 40 minutes at a time? Fair play to you

Murple

average_runner wrote: »

Kids aren't social distancing outside school right now. So no point in having it in the schools

I have yet to see a group of 30 children in a confined indoor environment...
No social distancing between 3 or 4 kids is very different to being back at school. I see plenty of adults not maintaining a social distance- should we disregard it too for all adults and just put everyone back to work as normal, no barriers, no screens, no limiting numbers etc?

lulublue22

the corpo wrote: »

Aye, the only way students from 3rd class to 6th year can return fully to school is if the social distancing recommendation is entirely ignored.

If that is their plan, then I can't imagine I'll let my kids go back... but I can't imagine how we'll cope at home either, and this is where the Department is putting us...

I think if the dep are opening schools full time the key is to look at how they intend to respond to illness ie availability of testing , what the sub situation will be , and how they propose to deal with a suspected or confirmed case before making any decision. Unless of course your children are already in a high risk group.

jrosen

lulublue22 wrote: »

Fair enough - but if it was a hot topic / wide spread then it would be sorted by now. I have yet to come across a newspaper article which questions why our class size is so high given the need for SD since the outbreak of this pandemic. It’s not a topic that has been mentioned by posters on this thread other than one individual posting 15 year old data on class size to counter act teachers referencing it.

I think class sizes have always been a hot topic. Ive had kids in schools for years now and its always something that is being chatted about and complained about. Shortage of teachers, shortage of numbers, shortage of classrooms have been listed to me and thats before covid.

I know parents who took their kids out of the local school to send them to an irish school because of lower class numbers. This was common about 8 years ago in our area.

Class sizes are too big full stop but if social distancing is to be adhered too all classes across ireland will struggle regardless of their numbers

Boggles

FF doing a solo run here.

The Devil will be in the detail.

Particularly how they plan to keep schools open at that level if their is a resurgence.

lulublue22

jrosen wrote: »

I think class sizes have always been a hot topic. Ive had kids in schools for years now and its always something that is being chatted about and complained about. Shortage of teachers, shortage of numbers, shortage of classrooms have been listed to me and thats before covid.

I know parents who took their kids out of the local school to send them to an irish school because of lower class numbers. This was common about 8 years ago in our area.

Class sizes are too big full stop but if social distancing is to be adhered too all classes across ireland will struggle regardless of their numbers

In my opinion it’s never been elevated to an election issue because if it had we wouldn’t have the highest class size in Europe.

We would never have been in a position re class size that would allow for SD. I am surprised though given the focus on SD across all sectors and indeed around the world that our class size has not featured / been focused on as a major issue in the discourse on educational provision at this time. I would have expected questions on why we have the largest class size in Europe and how to address that issue given the embarrassment Leo felt at our slow return to school compared to our neighbours.

Boggles

lulublue22 wrote: »

I would have expected questions on why we have the largest class size in Europe and how to address that issue given the embarrassment Leo felt at our slow return to school compared to our neighbours.

Because the absolute cluster fúck of clowns that show up at the press conferences are more interested in nail bars, hairdressers, weddings and pubs.

lulublue22

Boggles wrote: »

FF doing a solo run here.

The Devil will be in the detail.

Particularly how they plan to keep schools open at that level if their is a resurgence.

That’s what I’m interested in - it will be easy enough to reopen if ignoring SD keeping them open will be tricker.

nelly17

We need to have a serious think about School Uniforms - what we are hearing feels very aspirational forom a minister who has effectively been in hiding since appointment. If they do get this wrong and we end up reverting to blended learning then why bother putting perants through the expense of uniforms

Sammy2012

nelly17 wrote: »

We need to have a serious think about School Uniforms - what we are hearing feels very aspirational forom a minister who has effectively been in hiding since appointment. If they do get this wrong and we end up reverting to blended learning then why bother putting perants through the expense of uniforms

I can't understand why they don't ban Crested uniforms altogether. I have no problem buying 5 generic jumpers for my kids each. Probably get all 5 for 40e vs 1 crested for 30. Plus I have hand me downs for both mine so wouldnt need that many. If they dont need to wear a uniform I will do this. I have no interest in going out to buy clothes for school.

Boggles

lulublue22 wrote: »

That’s what I’m interested in - it will be easy enough to reopen if ignoring SD keeping them open will be tricker.

It's what I said from the start.

The problem isn't opening the schools in September, it's keeping them open from November to February.

If there is no clear tangible plan outlined to do that, with the supports and infrastructure in place in the next month or so.

Then it's back to national lock down.

They may tinker with schools that are in low instance counties.

But it will basically be the large hammer.

I'll wait to see what is in the document, but I will be shocked if they address adequately.

redmgar

nelly17 wrote: »

We need to have a serious think about School Uniforms - what we are hearing feels very aspirational forom a minister who has effectively been in hiding since appointment. If they do get this wrong and we end up reverting to blended learning then why bother putting perants through the expense of uniforms

But they have said schools are going back, Im not sure what else you need?
How to schools will manage it is up to the dept of education, but they will be back it the classroom.

Mrsmum

nelly17 wrote: »

We need to have a serious think about School Uniforms - what we are hearing feels very aspirational forom a minister who has effectively been in hiding since appointment. If they do get this wrong and we end up reverting to blended learning then why bother putting perants through the expense of uniforms

I don't know that the Government will say no school uniforms to save parents expense. In nearly every town in rural Ireland anyway, there is a particular shop where everyone buys their school uniform. Such business keeps these shops going. So it would probably be a killer blow for them to have no uniforms to sell.

khalessi

average_runner wrote: »

Kids aren't social distancing outside school right now. So no point in having it in the schools

What children do in their own time unsupervised by parents is one thing, speaking as a parent, I can tell my children to sd and hope they will, so far so good but kids forget. Schools on the other hand are also workplaces and have to adhere to Health and Safety policies. Hopefully H&S will not be ignored just so FF/FG can look good in the media getting lovely soundbites about schools reopened in a pandemic. Hopefully they will pay attention to the recent South Korea study which affects 10 years upwards.

But looking at their pathetic 71 million budget I am not reassured.

Murple

To put the €75 million in perspective.
€75 million in grants was announced for creches and preschools.(0-5 year olds)
€75 million in grants for all primary and secondary combined. (4-18 year olds)
€168 million in grants for third level.

Mrsmum

Murple wrote: »

To put the €75 million in perspective.
€75 million in grants was announced for creches and preschools.(0-5 year olds)
€75 million in grants for all primary and secondary combined. (4-18 year olds)
€168 million in grants for third level.

That's not good alright especially when it's actually primary & secondary school that is compulsory by law.

Sammy2012

It works out around 17.5k per school. Obviously big school will get more so it wont be long getting spent.

nelly17

Sammy2012 wrote: »

It works out around 17.5k per school. Obviously big school will get more so it wont be long getting spent.

Assuming you can get people to do the work, All schools will be lining up for the same resources in a 4 week period

Boggles

Sammy2012 wrote: »

It works out around 17.5k per school. Obviously big school will get more so it wont be long getting spent.

It doesn't really, not for primary schools anyway.

Primary schools will be getting an extra 15 million top up of the existing maintenance grant. It's not like the original maintenance grant lays idle, it's used to run the school

So in reality.

For instance, a 60 pupil school which received €6,610 in 2019 will receive €13,220 in 2020, a 300 pupil school which received €11,050 in 2019 will receive €22,100 in 2020.

There will be 2 payments per school depending on the size.

1. 6610
2. 11050

So in a 300 pupil school it works out at 36 quid per pupil to keep them "Covid Safe". Few pence a day.

rovers_runner

Ye are getting to go back to work in August lads, delighted for ye all

lulublue22

rovers_runner wrote: »

Ye are getting to go back to work in August lads, delighted for ye all

Same here I can’t wait to go back- miss the kids , the craic and the routine

rovers_runner

lulublue22 wrote: »

Same here I can’t wait to go back- miss the kids , the craic and the routine

My seven year old will be over the moon, don't want to get her hopes up until it's over the line next week.

Multipass

Mrsmum wrote: »

I don't know that the Government will say no school uniforms to save parents expense. In nearly every town in rural Ireland anyway, there is a particular shop where everyone buys their school uniform. Such business keeps these shops going. So it would probably be a killer blow for them to have no uniforms to sell.

About time, we’ve been ripped off by those shops for long enough now.

Leftwaffe

rovers_runner wrote: »

Ye are getting to go back to work in August lads, delighted for ye all

Looking forward to it. But I'm low risk. Feel like the gov plan will just be to belt ahead with it and see how it goes. Won't last long imo. But I really how I'm wrong.

wirelessdude01

The pros and cons of uniforms don't belong in here. That deserves a thread all of its own.

scrubs33

I get the feeling that opening the schools is the Department’s main goal: keeping them open will fall to individual Boards of Management at a local level to use that particular phrase...