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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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gozunda

easypazz wrote: »

I don't hang my hat on anything. I understand Stockholm is not a country. I also understand that with a high density metro area population of 2.3million people it is likely to spread faster there than rural Sweden I understand 2.3million people is a fine sample size to test "herd immunity" theory.

Why are you so fixated on Stockholm not being a country, does it make any difference

No you are. Thats a response to you continuously trotting out the supposed projection re herd immunity and Stockholm as if it has already happened and Stocknholm is comparable to actual countries. Now you've finally realised that - you are now correct it's not a country or even "a fine sample size"???

Btw exactly who is using Stockholm to test herd immunity" theory?

RugbyLad11

Rodin wrote: »

Very strange time of day for it.
Id make it earlier.

Exactly or make it like 30mins or something. It is really unfair to young people especially if they live in an apartment

Busi_Girl08

This is probably a stupid question, but does anyone know if the bring centres are open (or when will they open) to take green waste?

growleaves

Deleted User wrote: »

Does not mean that we should not carefully monitor what is happening with this virus based on what we know about previous pandemics.

Yes but what we know about previous pandemics should give us a sense of balance and proportion.

Social media posters who constantly invoke the worst second wave of a disease in history are not doing this. They are asking for the absolute worst case scenario imaginable to be treated as normative. They can't explain why they are asking for this, they just shout down anyone concerned with adverse consequences it leads to.

fatalll

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

Did anyone see this?

"From tomorrow, a two-hour period between 1.30pm and 3.30pm will be reserved in all parks across Dublin city and county for people who are cocooning."

https://www.rte.ie/news/post/103399848/

So young people can't even use parks now at the hottest time of the day when we can get the most vitamin d?

A park is not an enclosed space like a supermarket, there is lots of space to social distance

I think they are just saying if you can go outside this time please do.
Obviously if you cant fair enough.
Whilst social distancing of course

seamus

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Re the roadmap

It says you can visit households in June. Does this mean grandparents can hold their grandchildren?

The general guidance is that social distancing must continue. They probably won't say it explicitly, but a visit to a household implies that it does not require social distancing. Because it's not possible.

I expect we will see more specific guidance closer to the time, e.g. "If you feel at all unwell, alert others and do not visit anyone or allow anyone to visit", "do not kiss anyone who is not a member of your immediate household", "hands should always be washed upon entering any household, before touching anything or anyone". And so on.

partyguinness

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

FFS. No, the economy is not like the fecking weather. We have control over the economy. We don't have control over the weather and more relevantly, we do not have control over the virus.

Oh ffs yourself.

I never said anything about 'control'. My point is that the economy permeates everything and it is impossible to ignore/get away from much like the weather

Jesus...it's like dealing with 6 year olds.

Anyway, Ireland does not have that much control over its economy. There are all sorts of outside factors that Ireland cannot control.

Penfailed

MarkY91 wrote: »

What about hundreds of people out right now in every park in the country...explain that one

Out getting their daily exercise within the proscribed 5km and taking advantage of the good weather to do so?

Kermit.de.frog

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

Did anyone see this?

"From tomorrow, a two-hour period between 1.30pm and 3.30pm will be reserved in all parks across Dublin city and county for people who are cocooning."

https://www.rte.ie/news/post/103399848/

So young people can't even use parks now at the hottest time of the day when we can get the most vitamin d?

A park is not an enclosed space like a supermarket, there is lots of space to social distance

Ah yes because the young people are the real victims of this pandemic.

Older people using parks in the middle of the day!? How dare them, I need my vitamin D!!!

Breezin

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

Exactly or make it like 30mins or something. It is really unfair to young people especially if they live in an apartment

It is also unfair to people who are actually working at home on a schedule and who need to get out somewhere for a break.

Some people seem to have a severe dose of regulationitus and are making up rules for the sake of it. Older people would have no difficulty using these amenities outside lunchtime, say from 10.30.

partyguinness

timmy_mallet wrote: »

They would.

There was a town in the US or was it Aus where they conducted an experiment by getting rid of traffic lights.

Worked an absolute charm.

TheCitizen

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

This is very worrying, because most cases that have severe covid19 infections all have vitamin D deficiency. Getting to that stage where government is dictating who gets vitamin D and who does not?

Does any other country do this nonsense? thats what i wonder. I havent heard of any country having 2km 5km 20km craziness, now you can go to a park and I cant because i am not a certain age? NPHET has lost the plot

In Spain they have allotted times for different age groups to be allowed out and about as they emerge from lockdown. This is separate to essential trips to shops etc.

Haven't spent much time on these threads lately, it looks like more and more posters are "losing the plot".

fatalll

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

This is very worrying, because most cases that have severe covid19 infections all have vitamin D deficiency. Getting to that stage where government is dictating who gets vitamin D and who does not?

Does any other country do this nonsense? thats what i wonder. I havent heard of any country having 2km 5km 20km craziness, now you can go to a park and I cant because i am not a certain age? NPHET has lost the plot

Did you read the last line of the article?
they are just trying to protect cooconers(new word id say lol)
If people have to go during those times fair enough but if possible they prefer others to go outside those hours. Social distancing of course

thats how I read it anyway. I may be wrong of course

Cork Boy 53

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

This is very worrying, because most cases that have severe covid19 infections all have vitamin D deficiency. Getting to that stage where government is dictating who gets vitamin D and who does not?

Does any other country do this nonsense? thats what i wonder. I havent heard of any country having 2km 5km 20km craziness, now you can go to a park and I cant because i am not a certain age? NPHET has lost the plot

If you read the article in that link you will see that it is the Dublin local authorities who are implementing this measure. Nothing at all to do with NPHET.

gozunda

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Wait you do realize herd immunity is when a certain % of population gets infected and recovers? Herd immunity is ongoing all over the planet. Its not a thing you chose to do or not to do. It is not a strategy, it is life. So virologists doing anti body tests in New york, california, Germany have found that over 15% of population in their area (mind you New york would equate to 1.5 million people) have already had covid19 and recovered. Btw, this is good news, you dont seem to be happy? Talk about being pessimistic.

You clearly do not understand the theoretical concept of "herd immunity"

Its is not just some people being infected and recovering. Go do some research and stop embarrassing yourself. At least read the link already provided.

If it was "good news" then I'm sure we would all be delirious. Unfortunately the whole concept of herd immunity being pushed as solution to Covid-19 has already been debunked.

KrustyUCC

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Re the roadmap

It says you can visit households in June. Does this mean grandparents can hold their grandchildren?

Technically you're still meant to be socially distancing AFAIK

There is some speculation that kids don't generally get affected and trasmit the disease

The swiss are allowing hugging

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52470838

fatalll

Breezin wrote: »

It is also unfair to people who are actually working at home on a schedule and who need to get out somewhere for a break.

Some people seem to have a severe dose of regulationitus and are making up rules for the sake of it. Older people would have no difficulty using these amenities outside lunchtime, say from 10.30.

read the last line of the article

lawrencesummers

partyguinness wrote: »

Oh ffs yourself.

I never said anything about 'control'. My point is that the economy permeates everything and it is impossible to ignore/get away from much like the weather

Jesus...it's like dealing with 6 year olds.

That’s not what you said.

tobefrank321

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Unfortunately.

Never thought people would be so pessimistic over herd immunity. Oh no, my body has become stronger by recovering from covid19, please let me stay home and cocoon.

"Cocoon" is a contended for word of the year.

Covid 19 has been with us almost 6 months now.

So far despite 3 million confirmed cases worldwide and most likely 10 times that in reality, there hasn't been a single credible report of anyone being re-infected. Unless someone can point me to one?

This shows that so far many people can expect to be immune for at least 6 months. Hopefully we can get it up to a year and that would be very good news. It would mean that people can go back to work, travel, etc once recovered and expect a reasonably sustained immunity.

JP100

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

Did anyone see this?

"From tomorrow, a two-hour period between 1.30pm and 3.30pm will be reserved in all parks across Dublin city and county for people who are cocooning."

https://www.rte.ie/news/post/103399848/

So young people can't even use parks now at the hottest time of the day when we can get the most vitamin d?

A park is not an enclosed space like a supermarket, there is lots of space to social distance

Noticed some people last week on twitter complaining about people sunbathing in parks being a nuisance. Don't know was that a factor in the decision with folk thinking sunbathers are a nuisance.

Ginger n Lemon

gozunda wrote: »

You clearly do not understand the theoretical concept of "herd immunity"

Its is not just some people being infected and recovering. Go do some research and stop embarrassing yourself. At least read the link already provided.

If it was "good news" then I'm sure we would all be delirious. Unfortunately the whole concept of herd immunity being pushed as solution to Covid-19 has already been debunked.

No no no no no my friend

Unfortunately you either have a vaccine or herd immunity.

Newsflash - there has not been a single vaccine developed for ANY human CORONA VIRUSES in this history of this planet.

Well there is a 3rd option, the one you seem to be pursuing of us staying at home and destroying hundreds of thousands of jobs, but my preference would be for herd immunity.

Please provide facts, peer reviewed scientific research if any of above statements are incorrect. Not science alert dot com lol i cant say it without laughing.

FishOnABike

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Minister for finance says govt. strategy will help Ireland avoid 2nd wave, in response to NZ PM saying Ireland is very slow.

Ahh the dreaded 2nd wave applicable to Ireland only.

It's happened elsewhere already
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/29/japanese-island-suffering-avoidable-second-wave/
https://time.com/5826918/hokkaido-coronavirus-lockdown/
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-52305055
https://nypost.com/2020/04/30/hokkaido-hit-by-second-wave-of-coronavirus-after-ending-lockdown-early/

Those who cannot learn from history (even very recent history) are doomed to repeat it.

Better to do it once and do it properly than do a rush job and have to start all over again.

Penfailed

tobefrank321 wrote: »

It shows that locking down until a vaccine could be a very questionable approach given that an effective all encompassing vaccine may be very difficult.

Is anywhere in the world locking down until there's a vaccine? I haven't heard of anywhere trying that approach.

RugbyLad11

JP100 wrote: »

Noticed some people last week on twitter complaining about people sunbathing in parks being a nuisance. Don't know was that a factor in the decision with folk thinking sunbathers are a nuisance.

Seems stranger especially now that studies have problem that vitamin d helps covid cases

Mad_maxx

partyguinness wrote: »

They are the very same generation who did very very nicely out of Thatcher...so much so they kept the Tories in Government for 18 years with Thatcher at the helm for 11 years. Turned quite a lot into landlords over night, privatised the housing stock built in the post war years (by many an Irish labourer) and then left the current generation at the mercy of the private developers who of course bump up their profits to dish out dividends to the Baby Boomers and their pension funds. Nice circle of life going on there.

I don't begrudge pensioners their pensions in the slightest but I do think it is perverse that they always seem to be put first second and third.

Although they ****e on about it often enough the Baby Boomers did not live during any wars..they are generally those born between 1947 and 1963. Again another lucky break. But yet happy enough to send young lads off the Iraq and Afghanistan.

As a more learned commentator put it: The Baby Boomers are like a pig going through a python. Slowly and sucking up all the resources.

i think you said you were posting from the uk ?, ireland is much worse for prioritising the elderly over the young

tobefrank321

gozunda wrote: »

You clearly do not understand the theoretical concept of "herd immunity"

Its is not just some people being infected and recovering. Go do some research and stop embarrassing yourself. At least read the link already provided.

If it was "good news" then I'm sure we would all be delirious. Unfortunately the whole concept of herd immunity being pushed as solution to Covid-19 has already been debunked.

Herd immunity is related to probability.

If only 1 in 10 people are immune to something, this means the other 9 out of 10 are at high risk of being infected - if you are in a high risk category this means you are always at risk of being infected. If 9 out of 10 are immune, the 1 out of 10 person has a very low chance of being infected in any situation. And all these 1 in 10 people are at very low risk no matter who they meet. Its also somewhat similar for 80% herd immunity. Eventually the virus would die out because it has no-one new to infect.

There is no evidence a vaccine could establish any greater herd immunity than just letting it progress through the healthy in society. We've had decades of experience with the flu vaccine and even still its reckoned to be only 70% effective at establishing herd immunity. This means you have 3 out of every 10 people who are not immune - a large portion of society. And then you have to "re-do" the vaccine every year and if you get it wrong you are screwed.

Penfailed

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Re the roadmap

It says you can visit households in June. Does this mean grandparents can hold their grandchildren?

That's entirely up to the grandparents. The government may advise otherwise. It's only advice though.

JP100

fatalll wrote: »

I think they are just saying if you can go outside this time please do.
Obviously if you cant fair enough.
Whilst social distancing of course

They can't of course, enforce it, legally but they essentially telling anyone under 70 not to go to parks from 1.30 to 3.30 each day.

[Deleted User]

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

This is very worrying, because most cases that have severe covid19 infections all have vitamin D deficiency. Getting to that stage where government is dictating who gets vitamin D and who does not?

Does any other country do this nonsense? thats what i wonder. I havent heard of any country having 2km 5km 20km craziness, now you can go to a park and I cant because i am not a certain age? NPHET has lost the plot

Not the NPHET, its the 4 Dublin councils that have made this rule. And for most people of European heritage a few minutes in the sun will get you all the Vitamin D you need. And if not, you have your garden, local footpaths and lots of other places you can soak up the sun. Or you can drink all fortified milk or eat all the Salmon, Cheese or eggs that you choose. So don't be ridiculous, no one is restricting your right to vitamin D, least of all the government

And on the Vitamin D levels in severe Covid 19 infections - correlation does not equal causation - do we know that the infection is not causing the deficiency - either directly, or the fact that someone very ill is unlikely to be getting sun and/or eating a nutritious diet. Or, what is the Vitamin D level like in the general population following a long dark winter? Its very unlikely that those who had a mild infection from the virus had their vitamin D levels checked as there was no reason to, so until comparative studies are released there is no clear evidence either way

gozunda

easypazz wrote: »

So first you say 50% of deaths are in the over 70's bracket and care homes
Then you say 61% of deaths are in care homes alone
Do you actually realise how little sense you make.

Are you being deliberatly obtuse or just posting for the crack?

You do know that not all care homes cater for the elderly yeah? That many of those over 70 live also live in their own homes yeah? Trouble seems to be you only read the bits you want ...