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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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LiquidZeb

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Just heard yesterday - there hasnt been a single vaccine developed for any of human corona viruses in our history.

Maintain social distancing.

Wash hands.

Open up.

Well there's never been need for a coronavirus vaccine to such a degree until now. The amount of money that'll be thrown at it before the end will be the largest international effort since WWII.

lawrencesummers

LiquidZeb wrote: »

You're completely misconstruing my point. What im saying is you pulled up the poster for his reaction to the current death toll for covid and I asked what about the other 50 million deaths per annum. I don't know how you got around to cutting pieta house and cancer research funding other than a half arsed attempt to shame me.

It’s pretty simple.
The rationale that Ignoring the public health guidelines to covid19 will cause unnecessary deaths is being justified by some (you) that people die all the time, and that same rationale can be applied to any initiative that seeks to minimise deaths in preventable areas.

So where does your moral compass sit on it?

partyguinness

iamwhoiam wrote: »

From someone over 65 , you are making a holy show of yourself .

How so?

lawrencesummers

partyguinness wrote: »

No read it again. I pointed out that this ideology is well established going back several hundred years even if it comes as great shock to some people in 2020.

It also underpins the economics of the 'herd mentality' that you may have heard about in the news. That is what the English ideally wanted to do but figured it was probably bad optics allowing nature take its course.

So your another advocate for letting nature take its course?
I presume you have never take a medicine in your life so, always refused antibiotics I presume?

partyguinness

pjohnson wrote: »

I assume "beyond economic use" also applies to anyone overweight/with asthma/cancer/dialysis etc. regardless of age.

Interesting view. Compulsary euthansia for anyone not contributing to the economy or just send them to a gulag till they expire?

Who said anything about 'compulsory euthanasia'?

Nobody except you.

[Deleted User]

partyguinness wrote: »

Hate to break it to you sunshine but there is a whole branch and a well developed branch of economics and theory going back to the 70s dedicated to this policy. It is also fundamental Tory policy in the UK (not saying its right). Hell, you can even see it back in the 1840s. Now I do not have the time to give you a whole treatsie.

Huff and puff and get as indignant as you want but the thinking behind my post is extremely prevalent in government policy all across the world but just not shouted from the rooftops.

Absolute nonsense. Let them die is government policy all around the world?

lawrencesummers

partyguinness wrote: »

No read it again. I pointed out that this ideology is well established going back several hundred years even if it comes as great shock to some people in 2020.

It also underpins the economics of the 'herd mentality' that you may have heard about in the news. That is what the English ideally wanted to do but figured it was probably bad optics allowing nature take its course.

Ideology that goes back 200 years doesn’t make it right, in fact it’s a greater reason for it to be completely wrong. Things were generally totally **** 200 years ago. This might come as a surprise to you, but running water, modern medicine, flushing toilets, safety and security didn’t always exist.

normanoffside

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

And most of them by the usual open everything now gang.

I noticed last night that not one of the lockdown gang 'liked' the post from the poor person who has had their surgery cancelled.

How do you feel about that or do you just dismiss them as usual as a 'moaner'?

pjohnson

partyguinness wrote: »

Who said anything about 'compulsory euthanasia'?

Nobody except you.

If they are "beyond economic use" whats your solution? Just leave them waste away?

Does anyone deserve any treatment at all? Or should anyone with an illness be wrote off as "beyond economic use"

partyguinness

lawrencesummers wrote: »

So how many of that 27000 are people you know?

I know 5 through work that have died (all over 70 with underlying conditions) and I personally know at least 4 others recovering from it at the moment including my wife's aunt.

[Deleted User]

partyguinness wrote: »

No read it again. I pointed out that this ideology is well established going back several hundred years even if it comes as great shock to some people in 2020.

It also underpins the economics of the 'herd mentality' that you may have heard about in the news. That is what the English ideally wanted to do but figured it was probably bad optics allowing nature take its course.

Between herd mentality in the post and treatsie in your previous you are demonstrating beyond all doubt that you have no clue what you are talking about beyond a few youtube videos and Daily Mail articles

Cork Boy 53

partyguinness wrote: »

Who said anything about 'compulsory euthanasia'?

Nobody except you.

I mentioned it in my reply to your post. Straight question for you. Would you personally be in favour of euthanasia for people who are "well beyond their economic use"?

growleaves

I think a phony "war of generations" is beside the point and people should be careful about buying into a false dichotomy and thinking in terms of expediency.

It would be possible to shield the elderly and vulnerable without economic deep-freeze and internal travel restrictions etc.

Rodin

If I was euthanising those "beyond economic use" I can think of a few who would jump the queue before the elderly...

lawrencesummers

partyguinness wrote: »

I know 5 through work that have died (all over 70 with underlying conditions) and I personally know at least 4 others recovering from it at the moment including my wife's aunt.

And your ok with that?

I would also say that I don’t believe you.

niallo27

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

I mentioned it in my reply to your post. Straight question for you. Would you personally be in favour of euthanasia for people who are "well beyond their economic use"?

This kind of **** talk derails everything, if you think he is talking ****e just ignore him.

boring accountant

partyguinness wrote: »

Just another example of the Baby Boomer generation looking after themselves (along with cushy pensions, massive equity, and all the other perks you get at 65).

They have already screwed over the youth with Brexit, hoarded the housing stock, ****ed the environment and now this...oh but if anyone complains oh sure you are just a whiny 'snowflake' phone zombie.

ps I am writing this from England so a slightly different angle.

I absolutely agree. The youth are being forced out of work to help save their boss and their landlords skin.

[Deleted User]

MarkY91 wrote: »

There never was a lockdown lads.

And yet our infection and death numbers are right down and continue to head in the right direction

LiquidZeb

boring accountant wrote: »

I absolutely agree. The youth are being forced out of work to help save their boss and their landlords skin.

Yeah out to risk our necks to save the cruise 3 times a year brigade. Off we ****ing go.

tobefrank321

growleaves wrote: »

I think a phony "war of generations" is beside the point and people should be careful about buying into a false dichotomy and thinking in terms of expediency.

It would be possible to shield the elderly and vulnerable without economic deep-freeze and internal travel restrictions etc.

Exactly and we've had 6 weeks to come up with this plan and there is little evidence of one.

partyguinness

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Ideology that goes back 200 years doesn’t make it right, in fact it’s a greater reason for it to be completely wrong. Things were generally totally **** 200 years ago. This might come as a surprise to you, but running water, modern medicine, flushing toilets, safety and security didn’t always exist.

It goes back hundreds of years and it is still prevalent today. What I said is not new- that is my point but you really are determined to completely twist it around regardless.

Now I have a comprehensive third level education in this sphere. I have even written long essays on the topic (albeit 20 over years ago). Clearly you have not so I may as well be posting to my 4 years old.

Problem here is that people are allowing emotion to dictate.

RugbyLad11

Stark wrote: »

July 20th (Phase 4) by the looks of it.

https://assets.gov.ie/73722/ffd17d70fbb64b498fd809dde548f411.pdf

It says the hotels will open in phase 4 but there is still hotels open in Dublin city

Penfailed

gozunda wrote: »

For all those ranting and raving about restrictions possibly the best course of action is to take off to the likes of Sweden or elsewhere and let the rest of the same majority get on with dealing with reality.

For all the talk about Sweden, they're not doing well in comparison to their nearest neighbours.

Deaths per million - Sweden 118, Denmark 55 and Finland 13 (six times less than Sweden).

Ginger n Lemon

partyguinness wrote: »

It goes back hundreds of years and it is still prevalent today. What I said is not new- that is my point but you really are determined to completely twist it around regardless.

Now I have a comprehensive third level education in this sphere. I have even written long essays on the topic (albeit 20 over years ago). Clearly you have not so I may as well be posting to my 4 years old.

Problem here is that people are allowing emotion to dictate.

Emotional decisions are always the worst. Leo, Simon & Tony will have a lot to answer for, given the scale of this shambles I can see all 3 of them needing to testify, and come up with factual things to say rather than "keep deaths as low as possible".

KrustyUCC

Hairdressers plead with government to let them reopen before July

"Salons will not reopen until Phase 4 of the government's roadmap plan, meaning they will remain closed until July 20, because they are not deemed essential services.

But the group wants salons to be moved into Phase 3 of the plan, on June 29, due to fears of a black market economy."

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/hairdressers-plead-with-government-to-let-them-reopen-before-july-997886.html

I still can't figure out why our hairdressers are in phase 4 July 20th yet hairdressers in Denmark could be opened 3 months at that stage

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-europe-52360452

What is so radically different over here?

lawrencesummers

partyguinness wrote: »

It goes back hundreds of years and it is still prevalent today. What I said is not new- that is my point but you really are determined to completely twist it around regardless.

Now I have a comprehensive third level education in this sphere. I have even written long essays on the topic (albeit 20 over years ago). Clearly you have not so I may as well be posting to my 4 years old.

Problem here is that people are allowing emotion to dictate.

Send me on a link to your outdated essays. I would be interested in reading them.

Ginger n Lemon

Minister for finance says govt. strategy will help Ireland avoid 2nd wave, in response to NZ PM saying Ireland is very slow.

Ahh the dreaded 2nd wave applicable to Ireland only.

partyguinness

lawrencesummers wrote: »

And your ok with that?

I would also say that I don’t believe you.

I don't really care whether you believe me or not and yes I am fine with that. **** happens.

Of course everything must be done to keep it down but there is a point where enough is enough now.

Thousands of people die from car crashes every years. Hell hundreds if not thousands of people will die today in a car crash but I am still going to drive home later. I may get killed. **** happens.

As Bill Clinton said: "It's the economy, stupid."

Never a truer word spoken.

partyguinness

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Emotional decisions are always the worst. Leo, Simon & Tony will have a lot to answer for, given the scale of this shambles I can see all 3 of them needing to testify, and come up with factual things to say rather than "keep deaths as low as possible".

Ireland looks like a beacon of sensibility compared to the **** show over here in England.

Difference is that Ireland is a small sparsely populated country where every one knows everyone.

In England, nobody gives a ****.

easypazz

Penfailed wrote: »

For all the talk about Sweden, they're not doing well in comparison to their nearest neighbours.

Deaths per million - Sweden 118, Denmark 55 and Finland 13 (six times less than Sweden).

But this "match" is far from over.

Sweden's medical team believe the 2.3million Stockholm metro area will have achieved herd immunity in weeks.

If a second wave hits in September who is to say Sweden will see very little of it but Denmark and Finland will see another round of death and come back in line with them.

Same with the UK, maybe the short term pain will be worth it, as they won't get another wallop in a possible second wave.

Nobody knows really.