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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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Nickindublin

Mistakes have been made and i think answers will come and the media are way to soft on the government. I think its a disgrace that the HSE/NPHET seem to be running the country and that we have cabinet ministers dictating policy that have no seats. The Greens FF and FG should form a government until September. They could then go into talks and agree a program for the next 4 years and if they cant agree we can hold another election in October.

This road map is way too slow. Portugal are opening from today. Hairdressers yes you and get a haircut from today in Portugal and everything will be re opened by June. But in Ireland that will be 4 months minimum because Tony is bald(mobile hairdressers will be making a fortune) IMO we should be aiming to reopen everything by July and then implementing the Swedish style which the WHO have said every country will have to do as we cant be closing down and reopening economies. This would be social distancing, Work from home and locking down our care facilities. People dont only die from Covid 19. This is going to come back and haunt us in the years to come.

storker

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

There was a great quote there below
"
What we needed was sensible voluntary social distancing, more face masks and PPE, and more testing. Instead we got the Great Panic, termination of all liberties and catastrophic economic outcomes."

I didn't know they gave Nobel prizes for hyperbole.

(Actually his Nobel prize was for chemistry - he's neither a doctor nor a virologist.)

.

Ginger n Lemon

gozunda wrote: »

Not me saying that Covid-19 as a disease is a significant risk btw. That's the concensus of health professional globally. I'd suggest you discuss that with them.

As to why restrictions are starting to lift in some countries? Because yes those countries have managed to reduce the numbers being infected and dying from Covid-19. However even those countries acknowledge they are not out of the woods yet.

Btw re Italy which has been eight weeks with restrictions. The restrictions here started on March 12th - that's just six weeks.

What needs to be watched is that some areas like Germany who were winding back restrictions are seeing an increase in infection rates.

Today is 4th of May, 7 weeks lockdown here.

I appreciate those countries acknowledge the virus isnt gone, but how is Ireland different? Have we not flattened the curve? Have we not reached the peak?

I guess the question is very simple, why are barbers scheduled to be out of work in Ireland for 5 months while in countries like Spain, Germany, Denmark, etc 2 months? There is something here that isnt right, you cant dismiss that... ? If you say we are being super protective and cautious I ll understand.

PS the consensus of health professionals globally? WHO came out last week and said Sweden's model is the way to go. January to April of this year they were saying Sweden are crazy. Please tell me what credibility do global health professionals have left?

JRant

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Significant risk? So, is that why all of below is happening, TODAY? I love this country, it has great potential but for some reason our heads of genuinely chose to keep us in medieval times in comparison to all of below countries.

1 thing that unites Ireland, Germany, Italy & Spain - peak has been reached and passed and curve has been flattened in all... fact.

"
After eight weeks in lockdown, Italy is finally lifting some of its restrictions. People will be able to visit relatives, parks are reopening, and bars and restaurants can do takeaway. About four million people are expected to go back to work.

Small businesses like hairdressers are opening their doors in Spain, though they can only serve customers who have made appointments. Some of the country's islands will loosen restrictions even further, as they have not been as badly affected as the mainland

Zoos, museums, hairdressers and even some schools reopen in Germany, with the youngest students there returning to classrooms first"

My take on the roadmap is that it is super conservative on purpose. When we get out of this quicker than outlined then they can turn around and give themselves a massive pat on the back.

People have an extraordinary ability to change in the face of adversity, however if the government won't allow businesses to even try then that's an absolute scandal.

Another point that needs to be made is Phase 5 is completely unworkable. We cannot change hundreds of years of building and infrastructure planning over a few short months. Social distancing is not here to stay, it's a stop gap measure. People living in high volume areas cannot and should not be expected to adhere to 2m separation indefinitely. Schools, creches, public transport, office spaces are not designed that way and being honest never will.

dePeatrick

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

It has. And very smart people already say this, below video is on youtube

Nobel prize winning scientist Prof Michael Levitt: lockdown is a “huge mistake”

If people arent willing to listen to Nobel prize winning scientists then I actually think there is no hope. And hopefully NPHET will listen too.

There was a great quote there below
"
What we needed was sensible voluntary social distancing, more face masks and PPE, and more testing. Instead we got the Great Panic, termination of all liberties and catastrophic economic outcomes."

Quite easy say this now, not two months ago though.

road_high

shocksy wrote: »

Yawn!!!!! Do you never get tired of posting the same sh!t over and over. The road map has been laid out. Deal with it. You wont be having pints anytime soon KID.

Now run along to another thread were you will most likely continue more of your repetitive sh!t posting. See ya kid.

It's pathetic how so many people in Ireland just have no independent logical analytical skills and appear incapable of doing anything Independent of "what the government say". Their road-map doesn't have all the answers, we don't know in a week or twos time whether it will look sensible- as we stand it looks embarrassingly conservative and therefore unaffordable.

Ginger n Lemon

easypazz wrote: »

Regarding significant risk. 1.35 Million people die in car crashes every year.

So far 250000 have died of COVID.

If we reduced global speed limits to 50kph and put speed restrictors on cars we would certainly save a lot more than 250000 lives, with minimal effort, every year. It would free up untold ICU beds.

Yet no politician wants to go there.

COVID 19 has been overhyped beyond comprehension.

It has. And very smart people already say this, below video is on youtube

Nobel prize winning scientist Prof Michael Levitt: lockdown is a “huge mistake”

If people arent willing to listen to Nobel prize winning scientists then I actually think there is no hope. And hopefully NPHET will listen too.

There was a great quote there below
"
What we needed was sensible voluntary social distancing, more face masks and PPE, and more testing. Instead we got the Great Panic, termination of all liberties and catastrophic economic outcomes."

gozunda

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Significant risk? So, is that why all of below is happening, TODAY? I love this country, it has great potential but for some reason our heads of genuinely chose to keep us in medieval times in comparison to all of below countries.
1 thing that unites Ireland, Germany, Italy & Spain - peak has been reached and passed and curve has been flattened in all... fact.
After eight weeks in lockdown, Italy is finally lifting some of its restrictions. People will be able to visit relatives, parks are reopening, and bars and restaurants can do takeaway. About four million people are expected to go back to work. Small businesses like hairdressers are opening their doors in Spain, though they can only serve customers who have made appointments. Some of the country's islands will loosen restrictions even further, as they have not been as badly affected as the mainland
Zoos, museums, hairdressers and even some schools reopen in Germany, with the youngest students there returning to classrooms first"

Not me saying that Covid-19 as a disease is a significant risk btw. That's the concensus of health professional globally. I'd suggest you discuss that with them.

As to why restrictions are starting to lift in some countries? Because yes those countries have managed to reduce the numbers being infected and dying from Covid-19. However even those countries acknowledge they are not out of the woods yet.

Btw re Italy which has been eight weeks with restrictions. The restrictions here started on March 12th - that's just six weeks.

What needs to be watched is that some areas like Germany who were winding back restrictions are seeing an increase in infection rates.

https://www.euronews.com/2020/04/28/coronavirus-germany-s-covid-19-infection-rate-rises-after-lockdown-lifted

shocksy

easypazz wrote: »

Regarding significant risk. 1.35 Million people die in car crashes every year.

So far 250000 have died of COVID.

If we reduced global speed limits to 50kph and put speed restrictors on cars we would certainly save a lot more than 250000 lives, with minimal effort, every year. It would free up untold ICU beds.

Yet no politician wants to go there.

COVID 19 has been overhyped beyond comprehension.

Yawn!!!!! Do you never get tired of posting the same sh!t over and over. The road map has been laid out. Deal with it. You wont be having pints anytime soon KID.

Now run along to another thread were you will most likely continue more of your repetitive sh!t posting. See ya kid.

shocksy

easypazz wrote: »

Regarding significant risk. 1.35 Million people die in car crashes every year.

So far 250000 have died of COVID.

If we reduced global speed limits to 50kph and put speed restrictors on cars we would certainly save a lot more than 250000 lives, with minimal effort, every year. It would free up untold ICU beds.

Yet no politician wants to go there.

COVID 19 has been overhyped beyond comprehension.

easypazz

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Significant risk? So, is that why all of below is happening, TODAY? I love this country, it has great potential but for some reason our heads of genuinely chose to keep us in medieval times in comparison to all of below countries.

1 thing that unites Ireland, Germany, Italy & Spain - peak has been reached and passed and curve has been flattened in all... fact.

"
After eight weeks in lockdown, Italy is finally lifting some of its restrictions. People will be able to visit relatives, parks are reopening, and bars and restaurants can do takeaway. About four million people are expected to go back to work.

Small businesses like hairdressers are opening their doors in Spain, though they can only serve customers who have made appointments. Some of the country's islands will loosen restrictions even further, as they have not been as badly affected as the mainland

Zoos, museums, hairdressers and even some schools reopen in Germany, with the youngest students there returning to classrooms first"

Regarding significant risk. 1.35 Million people die in car crashes every year.

So far 250000 have died of COVID.

If we reduced global speed limits to 50kph and put speed restrictors on cars we would certainly save a lot more than 250000 lives, with minimal effort, every year. It would free up untold ICU beds.

Yet no politician wants to go there.

COVID 19 has been overhyped beyond comprehension.

easypazz

gozunda wrote: »

that post much like your others is lityle more than a **** sandwich of cheap shots and bluster.

You need to stop talking about yourself all the time.

magic17

JRant wrote: »

Looking at the numbers again this morning and it's even more encouraging than I thought. 60,000 tests carried out last week, which is over 33% of all tests carried out to date (160,000). The percentage of positive results was still well below 5% growth rate day on day. This was mainly nursing homes as well where they know they already have clusters. They plan on beginning residential care settings this week. Numbers down to 93 in ICU and continuing to fall.

Disappointed to hear they are only now planning on using the private hospitals for non-covid treatments. They really should have been sweating those assets this whole time as we are paying top dollar for using them.

All in all, I think we should be out of this long before August. A new government should be formed in a couple of weeks and will be made up of TDs that actually represent constituents rather than the likes of Ross and Zappone. There is absolutely no way we see the types of restrictions outlined in the roadmap until mid August, especially considering it's costing at least 600 million extra a week so far, not including the 6.5 billion package announced on Friday.

Great post. Good to see some positivity among all the doom and gloom merchants. It really looks like in 3-4 weeks, and that's being cautious, we are going to be seeing far fewer cases and probably very very few deaths per day.

Ginger n Lemon

gozunda wrote: »

And again that post much like your others is lityle more than a **** sandwich of cheap shots and bluster.

You can ignore the fact that the Covid-19 poses a significant risk to human life and public health and is highly contagious all you like. Thankfully such denial of the facts doesn't change anything, other than highlight the incredible stupidity of that type of ignorance.

I suggest you knock of the alcohol. Its doing you no favours.

Significant risk? So, is that why all of below is happening, TODAY? I love this country, it has great potential but for some reason our heads of genuinely chose to keep us in medieval times in comparison to all of below countries.

1 thing that unites Ireland, Germany, Italy & Spain - peak has been reached and passed and curve has been flattened in all... fact.

"
After eight weeks in lockdown, Italy is finally lifting some of its restrictions. People will be able to visit relatives, parks are reopening, and bars and restaurants can do takeaway. About four million people are expected to go back to work.

Small businesses like hairdressers are opening their doors in Spain, though they can only serve customers who have made appointments. Some of the country's islands will loosen restrictions even further, as they have not been as badly affected as the mainland

Zoos, museums, hairdressers and even some schools reopen in Germany, with the youngest students there returning to classrooms first"

GDK_11

I’m sticking to the government advice and happy to do so, it’s not ideal but I know it could be a lot worse.

With regards to getting through the phases quicker than expected, how will this work with social distancing? That is going to be here for a long time, creche, work, pubs, public transport, hairdressers etc will all require some form of it and surely they only operate on significantly reduced numbers. On that basis I assume “normality” is a long way off yet.

I hope I’m wrong as no one (well not many) want this to continue long term, but I guess time will tell.

gozunda

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The first thing I will say is judging by the time put into your posts you need to relax.You have used Italy as an example. Northern Italy suffered where 10m people were over 65 in densely populated areas. This proves restrictions are not required for all scenarios as proved unequivocally in Sweden.Anyhow I am now on my second crate of beer so I apologise if my post sounds like yours

And again that post much like your others is lityle more than a **** sandwich of cheap shots and bluster.

You can ignore the fact that the Covid-19 poses a significant risk to human life and public health and is highly contagious all you like. Thankfully such denial of the facts doesn't change anything, other than highlight the incredible stupidity of that type of ignorance.

I suggest you knock of the alcohol. Its doing you no favours.

kippy

JRant wrote: »

Looking at the numbers again this morning and it's even more encouraging than I thought. 60,000 tests carried out last week, which is over 33% of all tests carried out to date (160,000). The percentage of positive results was still well below 5% growth rate day on day. This was mainly nursing homes as well where they know they already have clusters. They plan on beginning residential care settings this week. Numbers down to 93 in ICU and continuing to fall.

Disappointed to hear they are only now planning on using the private hospitals for non-covid treatments. They really should have been sweating those assets this whole time as we are paying top dollar for using them.

All in all, I think we should be out of this long before August. A new government should be formed in a couple of weeks and will be made up of TDs that actually represent constituents rather than the likes of Ross and Zappone. There is absolutely no way we see the types of restrictions outlined in the roadmap until mid August, especially considering it's costing at least 600 million extra a week so far, not including the 6.5 billion package announced on Friday.

Agreed on all of the above. Especially the use of the hospital facilities.
It would be great to get through the staged plan ahead of time.

easypazz

JRant wrote: »

Looking at the numbers again this morning and it's even more encouraging than I thought. 60,000 tests carried out last week, which is over 33% of all tests carried out to date (160,000). The percentage of positive results was still well below 5% growth rate day on day. This was mainly nursing homes as well where they know they already have clusters. They plan on beginning residential care settings this week. Numbers down to 93 in ICU and continuing to fall.

Disappointed to hear they are only now planning on using the private hospitals for non-covid treatments. They really should have been sweating those assets this whole time as we are paying top dollar for using them.

All in all, I think we should be out of this long before August. A new government should be formed in a couple of weeks and will be made up of TDs that actually represent constituents rather than the likes of Ross and Zappone. There is absolutely no way we see the types of restrictions outlined in the roadmap until mid August, especially considering it's costing at least 600 million extra a week so far, not including the 6.5 billion package announced on Friday.

Positive talk like that won't go down well with some around here.

JRant

Looking at the numbers again this morning and it's even more encouraging than I thought. 60,000 tests carried out last week, which is over 33% of all tests carried out to date (160,000). The percentage of positive results was still well below 5% growth rate day on day. This was mainly nursing homes as well where they know they already have clusters. They plan on beginning residential care settings this week. Numbers down to 93 in ICU and continuing to fall.

Disappointed to hear they are only now planning on using the private hospitals for non-covid treatments. They really should have been sweating those assets this whole time as we are paying top dollar for using them.

All in all, I think we should be out of this long before August. A new government should be formed in a couple of weeks and will be made up of TDs that actually represent constituents rather than the likes of Ross and Zappone. There is absolutely no way we see the types of restrictions outlined in the roadmap until mid August, especially considering it's costing at least 600 million extra a week so far, not including the 6.5 billion package announced on Friday.

Penfailed

easypazz wrote: »

That is a stunnng breakthrough, have you told the WHO yet?

There's really no need for posts like this ^^^

Do you get some enjoyment out of condescension?

lawrencesummers

easypazz wrote: »

That is a stunnng breakthrough, have you told the WHO yet?

Are they even still together?

easypazz

Double post

easypazz

gozunda wrote: »

If you get it - you risk passing it on to others.

That is a stunnng breakthrough, have you told the WHO yet?

drunkmonkey

Deleted User wrote: »

It’s been mentioned on here a few times. I know 3 people that were hospitalised in December with flu.

I’m not exactly old (34) and don’t recall anyone in other years been hospitalised that I know. There was definitely a bad dose going around over winter. Whether it was Covid or just bad flu I don’t know.

So all the people thinking they had it at Christmas could be right if the French report is correct, most people I know were sick, thankfully didn't get it in this house but a lot of households were flattened.
It's time for Dr Cillian de Gascun to go recheck his swabs from December.

https://twitter.com/hpscireland/status/1205162612759113728?s=20

JTMan

splashuum wrote: »

I have looked at the roadmap and think I’ve gathered a few things from it. They’re trusting to keep workers working from home where possible, although it seems large scale offices may go back in phase 4/5. (phase 4 July 20/ phase 5 August 10th)
Does that seem correct?

Not phase 4. Phase 4 clearly states that those who can work from home have to continue to work from home.

Phase 5 is confusing. The official detailed document here says "Phased “return to onsite working arrangement" can begin BUT the summary version, that has been tweeted by the Taoiseach and advertised in national newspapers says that remote working must continue for all that can in phase 5 too.

Hence, earliest return date, for those that are working from home, is 10 August 2020 if the detailed document is correct but reality is that it could be September or October.

zerosugarbuzz

Emmersonn wrote: »

Not what anyone wants.
https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2020-05-03/emerging-from-lockdown-46-days-in-the-house-was-enough

You have to expect a peak when the restrictions are lifted. The healthy people who should have by rights had Covid and got over it will now catch it and get over it. The vulnerable and elderly will have to continue to be ultra careful.

zerosugarbuzz

Emmersonn wrote: »

Not what anyone wants.
https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2020-05-03/emerging-from-lockdown-46-days-in-the-house-was-enough

Emmersonn

Not what anyone wants.
https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2020-05-03/emerging-from-lockdown-46-days-in-the-house-was-enough

mille100piedi

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I live in a "Communist" country and everything except inward flights has gone back to normal now. ie. Life is like any other country, but with masks. There is no point in worrying about democracies like Ireland changing.

It's a bit weird to equate social distancing rules with communism. It's a health issue, not a political coup.

I really hope you are right. Thank you I feel better now

[Deleted User]

I live in a "Communist" country and everything except inward flights has gone back to normal now. ie. Life is like any other country, but with masks. There is no point in worrying about democracies like Ireland changing.

It's a bit weird to equate social distancing rules with communism. It's a health issue, not a political coup.