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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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FintanMcluskey

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

Well obviously people dying bothers me more! But how can anyone live normally if you have to stay 2 metres from everyone, until when?

The 2m thing is unproven. So is the thinking that this is a death sentence.
Life will return to normal, for those who think social distancing will carry on forevermore, basic evolution will prevent them from passing on the thoughts to the next generations. Very hard to meet someone and have kids from 2m away.

FishOnABike

KrustyUCC wrote: »

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/coronavirus/whos-in-charge-cracks-appearing-as-tensions-mount-over-lockdown-exit-strategy/ar-BB13wvJx?ocid=sf2

Interesting article

NPHET wanted 4 weeks in between phases lol

Ours is one of the slowest plans in Europe as it is with 3 weeks inbetween phases

Three weeks is pretty much the shortest time you can see any trend in the key indicators following a change in restrictions due to the possible incubation period between infection and symptoms / diagnosis. Any less than three weeks and we would be running blind.

Snugglebunnies

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Yea no end:rolleyes:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/video-texas-park-ranger-social-distancing-pushed-lake

What's that got to do with what I said?

SNNUS

Another poster goes for a walk and is outraged that others had the audacity to do the same thing! Now with pictures of strangers!

Bob24 wrote: »

Went out for my first walk in weeks besides very short ones to the grocery shop and pretty appalled by what I saw.

Looks like to me restriction have in effect been largely relaxed already with many people passing by each other at very close distance and hundreds lying in the park. Pics attached.

FintanMcluskey

VonLuck wrote: »

I'd hate to be in a position of power right now. No matter what you do you will be criticised.

If you give in to pressure and relax measures you'll be blamed that the number of cases / deaths could have been lower.

If it's successful, you'll receive criticism that the measures were too strict and are crippling the economy.

The reality is that no one knows for sure what the right approach is. The important thing is that there is a plan in place and that it needs to be followed through, regardless of whether you agree with it or not.

No one will criticise transparency

VonLuck

I'd hate to be in a position of power right now. No matter what you do you will be criticised.

If you give in to pressure and relax measures you'll be blamed that the number of cases / deaths could have been lower.

If it's successful, you'll receive criticism that the measures were too strict and are crippling the economy.

The reality is that no one knows for sure what the right approach is. The important thing is that there is a plan in place and that it needs to be followed through, regardless of whether you agree with it or not.

lawrencesummers

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

The real hospitalisation rate is under 1.5%, flu is circa 1% for comparison

Out of interest are you comparing the figures of a pandemic with Countermeasure restrictions In place versus a disease without restrictions?

Snugglebunnies

peasant wrote: »

The virus is extremely contagious
The virus spreads most actively before or just during the onset of symptoms.

So the person that infects you most likely shows no symptoms at all or just a light sniffle that could be anything or nothing.

The virus could kill you...perhaps it won't, perhaps it will.

And social distancing bothers you?

Well obviously people dying bothers me more! But how can anyone live normally if you have to stay 2 metres from everyone, until when?

Antares35

snotboogie wrote: »

Anyone hear Newstalk this morning with the HSE executive? She made it clear that there is no timeline to end social distancing and that we will have to get used to a new normal. Annoyingly the host was intent on putting hand washing and social distancing in the same bracket "I guess we'll just all have to get used to washing hands and social distancing" as if they are one in the same. Hand washing is a minor inconvenience which has almost no downside, social distancing will force us to reconsider everything about our society and economy.

I've said it over and over and over but people are not grasping the drastic implications of long term social distancing. The restrictions being lifted are a sideshow, a non event for most people. The real question is when we won't need to be 2 metres away from anyone not in our household. Society cannot function anything like it did before with social distancing in place.

I agree with you that they are two completely different measures however unfortunately many people have quite simply, a dire lack of common sense and manners when it comes to personal hygiene. Even before this all happened, bad manners were socially acceptable. You'd often have to step over globs of phlegm on the street where some degenerate had coughed a lung up, people sniffling incessantly on public transport instead of just using a tissue, people sneezing and coughing without making any effort to block the spray, rubbing/ exploring their noses then going around touching door handles, poles in buses and trams etc.

Even in work, where there should be some kind of etiquette and respect for colleagues, you would often notice people coming out of bathrooms without washing their hands (if you were waiting to go in for example) then going around touching coffee machines, door handles, phones that other people also use. Vile carry on and it means that yes, people need to be treated like 5 year olds because, that is simply how many of them behave.

It shouldn't need to be listed as a "special measure" to practice good hygiene but unfortunately the lowest common denominator dictates otherwise.

rob316

England could delay the closure and will open sooner as there health system is streets ahead. We are going to be throwing 10's billions at propping up the economy when we should be increasing bed and ICU capacity

peasant

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

I think this is the thing bothering me most. No end to social distancing...

The virus is extremely contagious
The virus spreads most actively before or just during the onset of symptoms.

So the person that infects you most likely shows no symptoms at all or just a light sniffle that could be anything or nothing.

The virus could kill you...perhaps it won't, perhaps it will.

And social distancing bothers you?

drunkmonkey

Snugglebunnies wrote: »

I think this is the thing bothering me most. No end to social distancing... I'm surprised there hasn't been a lot more conversation about it.

Yea no end:rolleyes:
https://www.foxnews.com/us/video-texas-park-ranger-social-distancing-pushed-lake

Snugglebunnies

snotboogie wrote: »

Anyone hear Newstalk this morning with the HSE executive? She made it clear that there is no timeline to end social distancing and that we will have to get used to a new normal. Annoyingly the host was intent on putting hand washing and social distancing in the same bracket "I guess we'll just all have to get used to washing hands and social distancing" as if they are one in the same. Hand washing is a minor inconvenience which has almost no downside, social distancing will force us to reconsider everything about our society and economy.

I've said it over and over and over but people are not grasping the drastic implications of long term social distancing. The restrictions being lifted are a sideshow, a non event for most people. The real question is when we won't need to be 2 metres away from anyone not in our household. Society cannot function anything like it did before with social distancing in place.

I think this is the thing bothering me most. No end to social distancing... I'm surprised there hasn't been a lot more conversation about it.

Ginger n Lemon

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

That not going to happen, that would be as foolish as to suggest that
-The CMO would respond to a direct question about whats required regarding numbers with "as low as possible".
-The health minister with no idea what the 19 means in Covid 19
-The NPHET would refuse to publish the minutes of and refusing journalist access to the meetings with the CMO claiming they are "busy"

That actually is not as bad as you may think, although i did chuckle at what the 19 means in Covid19. Couple of days ago, 2 doctors from California have posted a 1 hour interview they've had with local news channel about their results in relation to Covid19 testing and data in their area. They said that the numbers reported made no sense, in California, some areas had 12% positive covid19 antibody tests coming through, population over over 1million, death numbers in low 100s. working out at around 0.012% mortality.

Video was taken down by youtube for violating the "rules". These 2 doctors had 36 years of virology experience between them and were interviewed by local news channel that very much were trying to batter them over their opinion...

That interview is back on youtube in 2 parts. It is very good.

FintanMcluskey

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

whats next, Leo making announcements to the country without taking questions from journalists over his measures imposed?

That not going to happen, that would be as foolish as to suggest that
-The CMO would respond to a direct question about whats required regarding numbers with "as low as possible".
-The health minister with no idea what the 19 means in Covid 19
-The NPHET would refuse to publish the minutes of and refusing journalist access to the meetings with the CMO claiming they are "busy"

the kelt

Penfailed wrote: »

They're delaying to avoid ICUs becoming overrun, not because they don't know what to do.

Or they’re delaying to finally get the testing up to speed like they’ve been saying for weeks they were doing which coincidentally will now be up to speed within that extra 2 weeks.

Apparently

Ginger n Lemon

Penfailed wrote: »

They're delaying to avoid ICUs becoming overrun, not because they don't know what to do.

Get more ICUs? How many months government has had now to increase capacity? This is insane, we have 100 ICU beds, as a county of 5 million population we can't re open in case that capacity is reached/overwhelmed. Are we in lockdown forever then? Because I dont really see why ICUs wont be overrun in October... do you?

Tenzor07

Well, keep up the social distancing but this economy crushing lockdown is a waste of time and will cripple this state for the remainder of the 2020's!!

An immunologist has warned that keeping Ireland under lockdown is having only a modest impact in the fight against Covid-19.

Paul Moynagh, professor of immunology at Maynooth University, points to two studies that raise serious questions about the value of keeping Ireland behind closed doors.

In the first study, data across 24 countries, including Sweden, the Netherlands and Ireland, shows that the virus is following the same downward path - regardless of whether a country is in full lockdown, which suggests that social distancing is the key to suppressing the virus - not more extreme measures.

the kelt

That park picture again reiterates the stupidness of the 2k, 5k etc etc restriction and that blanket instruction for the entire country.

I could head off from my house and jog 2k, 5k or even 10k from my house this evening and not come even close to meeting another human being.

But put me in the middle of Dublin and that park and I quite possibly will meet or be in the vicinity of roughly the same amount of people living in my local town.

What’s sadder is there’s posters on here who would report me if they saw me out for that jog and declare me a pariah on society putting lives at risk.

Ginger n Lemon

snotboogie wrote: »

Any hear Newstalk this morning with the HSE executive? She made it clear that there is no timeline to end social distancing and that we will have to get used to a new normal. Annoyingly the host was intent on putting hand washing and social distancing in the same bracket "I guess we'll just all have to get used to washing hands and social distancing" as if they are one in the same. Hand washing is a minor inconvenience which has almost no downside, social distancing will force us to reconsider everything about our society and economy.

I've said it over and over and over but people are not grasping the drastic implications of long term social distancing. The restrictions being lifted are a sideshow, a non event for most people. The real question is when we won't need to be 2 metres away from anyone not in our household. Society cannot function anything like it did before with social distancing in place.

You are correct. Society can't function with social distancing. Most amazing thing is, there are 10+ scientific papers peer reviewed and published out there that state that washing hands kills bacteria and is a good thing to do.

Do you know how many scientific published peer reviewed papers there are of effectiveness of preventing disease spread because of people walking 2 meters apart from each? I got bad news.

FintanMcluskey

kippy wrote: »

I'll have a look at the Swedish data when I get a chance later

Do if you have time.
Essentially Sweden should now be seeing death rates of about 250k with doctors having to make decisions on who to save and let die. Triage seen in the trenches of WW1.

Ginger n Lemon

stephenjmcd wrote: »

They closed it yesterday because a few head bangers tried to have a protest

Yes. Bob wanted people who dont agree with lockdown to voice their opinion rather than sit close to each other in the park. They couldnt. So Bob went to the park and started to take photos of families sitting close to each other.

Jesus. Would you have believed this is where we would be in terms of society this time 12 months ago? Garda breaking up protests, people taking photos of other people in the park.. whats next, Leo making announcements to the country without taking questions from journalists over his measures imposed?

snotboogie

Anyone hear Newstalk this morning with the HSE executive? She made it clear that there is no timeline to end social distancing and that we will have to get used to a new normal. Annoyingly the host was intent on putting hand washing and social distancing in the same bracket "I guess we'll just all have to get used to washing hands and social distancing" as if they are one in the same. Hand washing is a minor inconvenience which has almost no downside, social distancing will force us to reconsider everything about our society and economy.

I've said it over and over and over but people are not grasping the drastic implications of long term social distancing. The restrictions being lifted are a sideshow, a non event for most people. The real question is when we won't need to be 2 metres away from anyone not in our household. Society cannot function anything like it did before with social distancing in place.

Penfailed

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Government are just delaying because they don’t know what to do.

They're delaying to avoid ICUs becoming overrun, not because they don't know what to do.

FintanMcluskey

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Noticing several house parties in my area in Finglas Friday Saturday and today very loud one last night music playing well into am hours crazy big Garda station in the village but no response to these parties.

If the parties are in a "home" is that not protected under law, as in without a warrant the gardai cant enter?

yosemitesam1

kippy wrote: »

How many of that 99.8 percent of the population will require hospitalisation and at what rate?
Let's look at your example of car crashes. People obviously die in car crashes. Thankfully it is not a contagious disease. But ignoring that for a minute do you think that more or less people would/do die in car crashes because of the various rules/restrictions and advances in technology than if we allowed people drive what they wanted, how they wanted with no legal or risk mitigation attached to it?

Edit, I'll take a look at the US number you provided later and respond.

The real hospitalisation rate is under 1.5%, flu is circa 1% for comparison

stephenjmcd

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Oh no, i was referring to a protest gathering at 2 pm in Pheonix park yesterday. Garda closed Phenonix park. You know, probably renovating.

They closed it yesterday because a few head bangers tried to have a protest

Ginger n Lemon

kippy wrote: »

Just so we are using the same baseline.can you link to where you get that figure from.

I cant provide hyperlinks unfortunately as i am a new user. But you can google Irish times article from 24th of April "one in five New Yorkers may have had covid19", in there you can read the following

In New York City, about 21 per cent tested positive for coronavirus antibodies during the state survey. The rate was about 17 per cent on Long Island, nearly 12 per cent in Westchester

21% of New York city is 1.8m, deaths at 24th of April were under 10k. So at 24th of April, covid19 death rate in new york city was less than 0.6%. Deaths there now are higher I appreciate, but then 21% is probably 30% or even 35%. New york city has 8.4m people.

normanoffside

Bob24 wrote: »

If you read my posts again, you will see I was doing my first walk in a while, within 2km of home as per the rules and that I didn't even enter the park (I just took a quick snap while waiting to cross the street).

How are you going to cope when the rule changes to 5k on Tuesday?

people from all over will be coming to sunbathe in your park and it will be very hard for you to police.

normanoffside

Bob24 wrote: »

No need. I was taking a walk within 2km of my home without anyone closer than 2 metres from me (I wasn't in the park, just taking a zoomed picture from the street). Not lying in the park with a big crowd.

Peeping Bob