Relaxation of restrictions Part II

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Were you there on the essential business of photoing them ?

If you read my posts again, you will see I was doing my first walk in a while, within 2km of home as per the rules and that I didn't even enter the park (I just took a quick snap while waiting to cross the street).

I mean I get people are frustrated, but it is very clear that the current health policies don't accommodate for hundreds of people to lie in the park (and as a matter of fact many countries have closed parks).

I can see a few rather aggressive answers to my posts form people who obviously don't like those policies and are trying to make it personal. I think they should rather discuss the policies and why they don't like them.

LiquidZeb

Gynoid wrote: »

Why don't you keep within the rules of posting on boards, there's a good lassie.

Why don't you look outside at all the happy people enjoying the weather and take a leaf from their book like a good boy.

RobbingBandit

Noticing several house parties in my area in Finglas Friday Saturday and today very loud one last night music playing well into am hours crazy big Garda station in the village but no response to these parties.

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I disagree with your maths. They've already proved New York's death rate of 0.12%. Slightly higher of flu.

Unfortunate Kippy people will die. Whether off flu or car crash or cancer or tuberculosis. Telling 99.8% of population to try to stay at home, miss out on vitamin D or actual social interaction, create 25% unemployment (10% permanent unemployment into next 3 years) and put 100 + businesses into bankruptcy is not the way to go.

Just so we are using the same baseline.can you link to where you get that figure from.

normanoffside

Bob24 wrote: »

They clearly aren't further than 2 meters from each other on the picture of the street. They kind of are in the park, but which of the allowed reason to leave home would you say they fall into? (I'd say none)

For what reasons are you allowed to leave home?

Bob24 wrote: »

Actually the park was closed with no-one left in it when I was walking back 15 minutes later - I suspect this is what happened as there were a few Garda cars around.

That is a shame: it could have remained open for people living in the local area and going their for a walk or a run, but because many don't feel the rules apply to them, it ended-up being closed even to those who would have followed them.

Oh no, i was referring to a protest gathering at 2 pm in Pheonix park yesterday. Garda closed Phenonix park. You know, probably renovating.

Gynoid

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Why don't you go and gawk out the curtains to make sure no one's outside like a good lad.

Why don't you keep within the rules of posting on boards, there's a good lassie.

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I don't disagree that your basing maths on inherently flawed models.
Using your theory, double those numbers and compare them to Sweden using a quick google search.

I'll have a look at the Swedish data when I get a chance later

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I disagree with your maths. They've already proved New York's death rate of 0.12%. Slightly higher of flu.

Unfortunate Kippy people will die. Whether off flu or car crash or cancer or tuberculosis. Telling 99.8% of population to try to stay at home, miss out on vitamin D or actual social interaction, create 25% unemployment (10% permanent unemployment into next 3 years) and put 100 + businesses into bankruptcy is not the way to go.

How many of that 99.8 percent of the population will require hospitalisation and at what rate?
Let's look at your example of car crashes. People obviously die in car crashes. Thankfully it is not a contagious disease. But ignoring that for a minute do you think that more or less people would/do die in car crashes because of the various rules/restrictions and advances in technology than if we allowed people drive what they wanted, how they wanted with no legal or risk mitigation attached to it?

Edit, I'll take a look at the US number you provided later and respond.

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Bob, they tried. But Garda closed Pheonix park.

Garda will shut down any form of public gatherings, there were 6 girls protesting against Debenhams on Henry street, easily 3 meters apart from each other, still told to get the hell out by our law enforcement.

Actually the park was closed with no-one left in it when I was walking back 15 minutes later - I suspect this is what happened as there were a few Garda cars around.

That is a shame: it could have remained open for people living in the local area and going their for a walk or a run, but because many don't feel the rules apply to them, it ended-up being closed even to those who would have followed them.

[Deleted User]

I chose to quite strictly lockdown myself in March and most of April. I’ve finished lockdown now, but I’ll continue to stay inside the rules.

Instead of getting deliveries, I now go the shops myself. I’m happy to be out and about within a few KM of the house. Instead of ordering shopping online for my elderly father in law, I’ll go the shop and then drive down with the groceries. We’ll have a chat in the driveway for a good while. Then I might also drop some bits down to my own parents.

I was more careful before but I’m not breaking any rules.

There is no vaccine. It’s not going to be any safer in August. Government are just delaying because they don’t know what to do.

Bruthal

robinph wrote: »

Other than certain tasks there is a lot of things which can be done without people needing to be in close proximity to each other though. New ways of doing those tasks need to be figured out, or accept the risks, and the rest of us have to accept that building work will take longer than before as all the other tasks that can be done solo are going to take longer as you can only have one or two people in a room at a time.

Accept the risks will be the reality, while being told "zero risk, injury free" endlessly.
In reality, construction companies know that if a person picks up covid 19 and then goes home and kills others, they cant prove it was on the site they got it, and that is all that is cared about on sites now, the blame game.
They endlessly put out this "zero risk zero injury policy". But they dont mind this risk because it cant be proven the person picked up the virus on the site, even though there is clearly a much higher risk of it than if not on a site.

So, site work will continue as normal, with maybe reduced actual numbers by having shifts. But 2 meter distancing the whole time, fantasy stuff.

Or we stop building stuff because it's too complicated.

No, they just take the risk and broadcast that it is minimal risk.

There isn't going to be much call for new office buildings for a good few years anyway so no rush there, upgrading fibre links to people's houses is where the work is going to be now.

Most of the big construction jobs are in data centre, pharma, or chip manufacturing. There was going to be a shortage of skilled people just from those alone, I dont think that will change, nor will construction methods.

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Were you there on the essential business of photoing them ?

You know he wasnt :P I am concerned that our population is slowly turning into stalkers and creeps. At this rate, we ll be more afraid of stepping outside because Bobs and Dicks and Harrys will be there waiting to take picture of us rather than covid19.

FintanMcluskey

kippy wrote: »

I don't live in Sweden, amn't Swedish and don't know enough outside of their death rates to have a well formed opinion on Sweden.

Do you disagree with my maths?

I don't disagree that your basing maths on inherently flawed models.
Using your theory, double those numbers and compare them to Sweden using a quick google search.

robinph wrote: »

I'm guessing you were equally appalled with your own behaviour as well in heading to a popular spot that other people were already hanging out in and then stopping to take photos because everyone else was so appalling?

No need. I was taking a walk within 2km of my home without anyone closer than 2 metres from me (I wasn't in the park, just taking a zoomed picture from the street). Not lying in the park with a big crowd.

LiquidZeb

Gynoid wrote: »

Maybe because it was nasty and low, and you find that kind of remark funny..?

Why don't you go and gawk out the curtains to make sure no one's outside like a good lad.

kippy wrote: »

I don't live in Sweden, amn't Swedish and don't know enough outside of their death rates to have a well formed opinion on Sweden.

Do you disagree with my maths?

I disagree with your maths. They've already proved New York's death rate of 0.12%. Slightly higher of flu.

Unfortunate Kippy people will die. Whether off flu or car crash or cancer or tuberculosis. Telling 99.8% of population to try to stay at home, miss out on vitamin D or actual social interaction, create 25% unemployment (10% permanent unemployment into next 3 years) and put 100 + businesses into bankruptcy is not the way to go.

iamwhoiam

Bob24 wrote: »

They clearly aren't further than 2 meters from each other on the picture of the street. They kind of are in the park, but which of the allowed reason to leave home would you say they fall into? (I'd say none)

All I'm saying is that if people don't like the rules they should be vocal and convincing about changing them; not break them. That is ridiculous.

Were you there on the essential business of photoing them ?

castletownman

robinph wrote: »

I'm guessing you were equally appalled with your own behaviour as well in heading to a popular spot that other people were already hanging out in and then stopping to take photos because everyone else was so appalling?

He was only there to get directions on how to get away from there!

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Whats your opinion on Sweden

I don't live in Sweden, amn't Swedish and don't know enough outside of their death rates to have a well formed opinion on Sweden.

Do you disagree with my maths?

Bob24 wrote: »

They clearly aren't within 2 meters on the picture of the street. They kind of are in the park, but which of the allowed reason to leave home would you say they fall into? (I'd say none)

All I'm saying is that if people don't like the rules they should be vocal and convincing about changing them; not break them. That is ridiculous.

Bob, they tried. But Garda closed Pheonix park.

Garda will shut down any form of public gatherings, there were 6 girls protesting against Debenhams on Henry street, easily 3 meters apart from each other, still told to get the hell out by our law enforcement.

FintanMcluskey

kippy wrote: »

1 percent of 5 million works out at 50,000.
14 percent, the hospitalisation numbers works out at 700,000 half these rates if you think it doesn't take account of people without symptoms.

Yes, these are totally sustainable numbers that won't cause any issues whatsoever when the number of hospital beds is in the thousands and ICU beds in the hundreds.
That's why there are restrictions in place on movement etc.

It's crazy that 6 weeks in people don't appreciate the figures involved. The precise reason we are keeping the numbers manageable IS the restrictions we have been generally adhering too.

I've not real opinion on the photos.

Whats your opinion on Sweden

CruelSummer wrote: »

This kind of vilification of people enjoying the nice weather, at a social distance is ridiculous. Everyone in pics provided are in groups, helping themselves stay sane during a way over the top lockdown that doesn’t even need to continue for the next two weeks. If you’re an at risk person, it’s not the public’s fault, people have to live their lives.
I think a day of reckoning is on the way for the government. Far too slow to lift restrictions, while the damage is catastrophic. I would understand if the death rate was 8-10%. But it’s actually less than 1% so therefore why are we even locked down at the moment?!

1 percent of 5 million works out at 50,000.
14 percent, the hospitalisation numbers works out at 700,000 half these rates if you think it doesn't take account of people without symptoms.

Yes, these are totally sustainable numbers that won't cause any issues whatsoever when the number of hospital beds is in the thousands and ICU beds in the hundreds.
That's why there are restrictions in place on movement etc.

It's crazy that 6 weeks in people don't appreciate the figures involved. The precise reason we are keeping the numbers manageable IS the restrictions we have been generally adhering too.

I've not real opinion on the photos.

CruelSummer wrote: »

This kind of vilification of people enjoying the nice weather, at a social distance is ridiculous. Everyone in pics provided are in groups, helping themselves stay sane during a way over the top lockdown that doesn’t even need to continue for the next two weeks. If you’re an at risk person, it’s not the public’s fault, people have to live their lives.
I think a day of reckoning is on the way for the government. Far too slow to lift restrictions, while the damage is catastrophic. I would understand if the death rate was 8-10%. But it’s actually less than 1% so therefore why are we even locked down at the moment?!

They clearly aren't further than 2 meters from each other on the picture of the street. They kind of are in the park, but which of the allowed reason to leave home would you say they fall into? (I'd say none)

All I'm saying is that if people don't like the rules they should be vocal and convincing about changing them; not break them. That is ridiculous.

robinph

Bob24 wrote: »

Went out for my first walk in weeks besides very short ones to the grocery shop and pretty appalled by what I saw.

Looks like to me restriction have in effect been largely relaxed already with many people passing by each other at very close distance and hundreds lying in the park. Pics attached.

I'm guessing you were equally appalled with your own behaviour as well in heading to a popular spot that other people were already hanging out in and then stopping to take photos because everyone else was so appalling?

FintanMcluskey

Bob24 wrote: »

Went out for my first walk in weeks besides very short ones to the grocery shop and pretty appalled by what I saw.

Looks like to me restriction have in effect been largely relaxed already with many people passing by each other at very close distance and hundreds lying in the park. Pics attached.

There's some lookers in those pic's Bob, handy way to sneak a few pic's and claim it's in the name of outrage!

Which park was it, asking for a friend, he's very responsible with the social distance thing!!

Gynoid

Bruthal wrote: »

You seem to have an imagined view of building sites, fuelled by this perception put forward that they are outdoor jobs, "working in isolation" etc. Well, the reality is with commercial sites, hundreds of persons, indoors, often queues at toilets as the minimum requirements are never enough (hundreds of lads with 15 or 20 toilets between them), packed into canteens at break times as the canteens are overcrowded, and the very nature of this type of work requires close proximity to others. Quite how people think buildings are built with everyone outside is an interesting one.

And as for the "minuscule risk" being widely agreed upon, well if they have this view of 20 lads building a data centre by all standing isolated outside it, its easy to see why such a "widely agreed" view is held, when the reality is, there will be hundreds around each other inside it.

No man, pffft, they are all muscle bound leaping young gods, none of them over 30, all of them with the immune sysyems of bull elephants ranging the wide open pristine spaces alone and proudly aloof. Not a single moob, beer gut, grey hair, fat arse, bald skull or underlying condition among them. No sirree.

robinph

Bruthal wrote: »

You seem to have an imagined view of building sites, fuelled by this perception put forward that they are outdoor jobs, "working in isolation" etc. Well, the reality is with commercial sites, hundreds of persons, indoors, often queues at toilets as the minimum requirements are never enough (hundreds of lads with 15 or 20 toilets between them), packed into canteens at break times as the canteens are overcrowded, and the very nature of this type of work requires close proximity to others. Quite how people think buildings are built with everyone outside is an interesting one.

And as for the "minuscule risk" being widely agreed upon, well if they have this view of 20 lads building a data centre by all standing isolated outside it, its easy to see why such a "widely agreed" view is held, when the reality is, there will be hundreds around each other inside it.

Other than certain tasks there is a lot of things which can be done without people needing to be in close proximity to each other though. New ways of doing those tasks need to be figured out, or accept the risks, and the rest of us have to accept that building work will take longer than before as all the other tasks that can be done solo are going to take longer as you can only have one or two people in a room at a time.

Or we stop building stuff because it's too complicated.

There isn't going to be much call for new office buildings for a good few years anyway so no rush there, upgrading fibre links to people's houses is where the work is going to be now.

CruelSummer

Bob24 wrote: »

Went out for my first walk in weeks besides very short ones to the grocery shop and pretty appalled by what I saw.

Looks like to me restriction have in effect been largely relaxed already with many people passing by each other at very close distance and hundreds lying in the park. Pics attached.

This kind of vilification of people enjoying the nice weather, at a social distance is ridiculous. Everyone in pics provided are in groups, helping themselves stay sane during a way over the top lockdown that doesn’t even need to continue for the next two weeks. If you’re an at risk person, it’s not the public’s fault, people have to live their lives.
I think a day of reckoning is on the way for the government. Far too slow to lift restrictions, while the damage is catastrophic. I would understand if the death rate was 8-10%. But it’s actually less than 1% so therefore why are we even locked down at the moment?!