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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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easypazz

GazzaL wrote: »

Nobody knows the active case numbers in Ireland accurately. It's not the most useful figure anyway.

Exactly. It useless.

Fann Linn

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Ex FG Ivan has an axe to grind.

Yet people think he is part of the Denis O Brien elite controlled media by the government or something to that affect.

Shows up the conspiracy left loonies theories.

'Nothing to see here, move along.'
Is that your mantra?

SNNUS

It was refreshing to hear Ivan Yeats and Charlie Bird today, of course we should ask questions and examine every restriction and it's result. We are a democracy so we should have varied views and be able to examine those who are making these decisions while keeping the bold public in the dark.

bettyoleary

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

That type of journalism is the fundamental basis of democracy. Competent journalists/presenters don't communicate their personal belief's, they invoke thought and demand justification. Its times like these that poor
presenters are so apparent, Joe wash your hands Duffy and Ryan stay at home fools Tubridy are stealing a living.
Its so refreshing to hear Yates to question the narrative and field texts accusing him gross irresponsibility to question the actions of Leo, Tony and Simon.
Questioning the actions of a man with experience of 18 previous Covid virus takes bravery. It also takes bravery to question a Dr who previously warned an advocate over questions directed at him during a cervical check crisis.
These guy have being given a free reign on our future for 2 month's. Unchallenged and unquestioned. Armed detectives have been mobilised to protect areas of natural beauty this weekend. All in the name of a crisis in care homes. So I want to see them questioned, and I want answers

I cant see why a journalist dosent ask them if the virus was known to have the devastating effects on children the el instead of the elderly would you have followed the same course of action. How could they get out of that one.

Jinglejangle69

Fann Linn wrote: »

'Nothing to see here, move along.'
Is that your mantra?

Eh no.

I'm saying it's good Ivan is questioning them.

And hopefully it puts to bed the Denis O Brien controlling what newstalk presenters can say which is the mantra of SF supporters and the left.

This shows he doesn't tell his radio presenters to not say anything bad about FG.

You get it yet?

ldy4mxonucwsq6

drunkmonkey wrote: »

All of it. Harris laughing in the middle of it deserves to go viral. Why isn't he distancing with his underlying health condition, where's his mask. Leo taking the preverbial as well with a mask around his neck yesterday.
Do as I say boys don't do as I do.

Has to be old footage, look at his hair. He put out a twitter video today and doesn't have a fresh haircut.

LiquidZeb

bettyoleary wrote: »

They have been working on a vaccine for covid a year before the pandemic but these vaccines arnt profitable and they couldn't get the funding. So, they already have a good headstart. Plus the govt have thrown millions at it now. They will be giving it to a lot more people next week as the ones whove received it already are doing OK. He just hopes community transmission isn't to low in the UK for them to se its efficacy but even if it is he can go to a hot spot somewhere else even in USA. He thinks September it will be ready if it works. PLEASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSE!!!!!

I know there's a lot of big ifs around the whole thing but I don't see two members of the same team saying the same thing if they weren't certain.

I'd imagine if there wasn't some substance to their work and it was a damp squib their professional reputations would be curtains. Here's hoping.

Penfailed

bettyoleary wrote: »

I cant see why a journalist dosent ask them if the virus was known to have the devastating effects on children the el instead of the elderly would you have followed the same course of action. How could they get out of that one.

They could get out of that one by saying that it's a pointless hypothetical question that doesn't warrant an answer...

rovers_runner

In the real world progress is managed by KPI analysis.
What are the actual black and white measurables?

- Amount of PPE to staff (no orders raised until too late)
- Swabs taken (peaks and troughs due to inability to define a case definition scope)
- Tests analysed (Delayed due to peaks in step 2, or redundant due to inaction in care homes)
- Contacts traced (Delayed due to lack of planning in step 1)
- Test turn around times (Delayed due to lack of resources)

So what have the HSE actually got right here?
This isn't taking into account timing based decisions of care home closures, school closures, Cheltenham, Italy Rugby fans, pubs, keeping airports and ports open to commercial travel.

Long_Wave

I really cringe when I hear/see people saying "we are beating the virus"

HeidiHeidi

Long_Wave wrote: »

I really cringe when I hear/see people saying "we are beating the virus"

They're marginally better than the ones who insist "we've beaten the virus" :rolleyes:

FintanMcluskey

rovers_runner wrote: »

In the real world progress is managed by KPI analysis.
What are the actual black and white measurables?

- Amount of PPE to staff (no orders raised until too late)
- Swabs taken (peaks and troughs due to inability to define a case definition scope)
- Tests analysed (Delayed due to peaks in step 2, or redundant due to inaction in care homes)
- Contacts traced (Delayed due to lack of planning in step 1)
- Test turn around times (Delayed due to lack of resources)

So what have the HSE actually got right here?
This isn't taking into account timing based decisions of care home closures, school closures, Cheltenham, Italy Rugby fans, pubs, keeping airports and ports open to commercial travel.

They have increased frontline staff efficiency by allowing them to stay at home to mind children fully paid. Fantastic stuff. Do we need to clap?

bettyoleary

LiquidZeb wrote: »

I know there's a lot of big ifs around the whole thing but I don't see two members of the same team saying the same thing if they weren't certain.

I'd imagine if there wasn't some substance to their work and it was a damp squib their professional reputations would be curtains. Here's hoping.

;)Ive everything crossed twice

drunkmonkey

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Ye what?

There has been no advice people with crohms disease should be Cocvooning.

The advice in the UK is they should stay at home.

normanoffside

rovers_runner wrote: »

In the real world progress is managed by KPI analysis.
What are the actual black and white measurables?

- Amount of PPE to staff (no orders raised until too late)
- Swabs taken (peaks and troughs due to inability to define a case definition scope)
- Tests analysed (Delayed due to peaks in step 2, or redundant due to inaction in care homes)
- Contacts traced (Delayed due to lack of planning in step 1)
- Test turn around times (Delayed due to lack of resources)

So what have the HSE actually got right here?
This isn't taking into account timing based decisions of care home closures, school closures, Cheltenham, Italy Rugby fans, pubs, keeping airports and ports open to commercial travel.

The HSE have been a monumental f*ck up as usual.
First they told us they were going to 'test, test, test' and contact trace everyone with the virus, find it an eliminate it.. we all said 'great idea and everyone bought into it.
Then they cancelled 40,000+ tests because they couldn't keep up.
Then they said we are only testing vulnerable categories.
Then they realised people were 3+ weeks waiting for a test and often 2 months waiting for a result (how many people had the virus already and recovered before they had a test?)
Then they sent sick patients and infected staff into nursing homes without PPE to kill off the elderly and vulnerable
Now they are saying they are going to 'test test test' again but only certain categories of people can get the test, everyone else can fook off and just stay at home.

Anyway now they say that in a few weeks they will be able to test everyone (except anyone who is not dying) and contact trace anyone who has been in close contact with them (i.e. nobody because we haven't been able to go anywhere), but yet it's all the fault of Mary who went to Lidl in the next village or Jimmy who went for a cycle outside of the 2k radius.

bettyoleary

Penfailed wrote: »

They could get out of that one by saying that it's a pointless hypothetical question that doesn't warrant an answer...

They could but then a lot would argue that the handling of the crisis to date in a lot of ways has been pointless and hypothetical.

Penfailed

bettyoleary wrote: »

They could but then a lot would argue that the handling of the crisis to date in a lot of ways has been pointless and hypothetical.

Except that doesn't make any sense.

SNNUS

Excellent article in The Irish Times how they are deflecting blame onto Joe public

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/blame-for-expected-extended-lockdown-shifted-onto-the-public-1.4239955?mode=amp

Jurgen Klopp

To be honest its looking more like the government here and in the UK are scared ****less of making the wrong move and how it will blowback so they are hoping the public will end it for them that way if things look manageable they'll roll with it and if things go tits up they can blame the public and say ye wouldn't listen

Martin567

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/editorial/the-irish-times-view-on-easing-restrictions-the-state-s-side-of-the-bargain-1.4240385?mode=amp

Really good editorial in the Irish Times also.

appledrop

SNNUS wrote: »

Excellent article in The Irish Times how they are deflecting blame onto Joe public

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/blame-for-expected-extended-lockdown-shifted-onto-the-public-1.4239955?mode=amp

This for me sums it all up. People have had enough. Of course we had to lockdown, keep social distancing etc etc but by end of this week we are 7 weeks into this. Every other country is starting in some ways to lift restrictions + give people hope.

We have plenty of space in the hospitials, most of the private hospitials lying empty, we have r0 level below 1. We have meet all the things they asked yet they are still lecturing us.

If they lifted the 2km rule + let over 70s out for brief walk daily I'd be happy. My parents are 5 weeks coconing + it's taking its toll.

This virus is not going anyway so we have to learn to live with it as best we can. How many people are going to die in meantime from non covid related issues such as mental health problems, cancelled surgery for cancer treatment etc.

Sometimes the 'cure' can be worse than the disease.

Jayesdiem

I think the lockdown is already lifting in the UK. I read an FT article today that listed all the businesses now open again and it was far more that I had thought. It seems a “soft reboot” is underway and if you think about it, this makes lots of sense. A specific announcement that lockdown has ended would result in mass exodus. Gradual and unpublicised creep of the measures allows for the slow reintroduction of real life without fear of creating large crowds. In that way, I doubt we will have a clear line in the sand that signifies the end of lockdown.

GazzaL

Martin567 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/editorial/the-irish-times-view-on-easing-restrictions-the-state-s-side-of-the-bargain-1.4240385?mode=amp

Really good editorial in the Irish Times also.

The blame for any extension to the lockdown lies firmly with the Government and HSE.

showpony1

could be a curveball so people don't go mad at the weekend, with most restrictions lifted on tuesday.

bettyoleary

Penfailed wrote: »

Except that doesn't make any sense.

Why dosent it? Buying up huge amounts of beds in private hospitals based on what? hypothetical figures? pointless. Allowing hundreds of Italian rugby fans from a heavily infected region of Italy into Dublin for a match that was cancelled pointless? Allowing nurses to move from one nursing home to another without testing plus family and friends and all in sundry to visit ridiculous. Discharging elderly people back into nursing homes with symptoms and without testing to free up beds that remain empty pointless? The list could go on. A lockdown that is neither here nor there pointless. Bringing in foreign workers when there are plenty of people unemployed in Ireland who could do that work. They have no problem asking people on benefits to clean streets or loose benefits pointless. The list goes on.

Tenzor07

appledrop wrote: »

If they lifted the 2km rule + let over 70s out for brief walk daily I'd be happy. My parents are 5 weeks coconing + it's taking its toll..

From what I heard on RTE from Cillian De Gascun, they say that if they let the over 70s out for a couple of hours a day it would mean that others would be under a more severe lockdown.

No indication that the 2k limit will be changed to 5k either, he basically said "We want people to stay at home..."

no f9ckin plan at all..

showpony1

what difference is changing the 2km to 5km going to make if you've to not interact with anyone else and only leave for essential trips and exercise? lads in their Lycra cycling a few more kms?

Gael23

We have kept our side of the bargain but not the AHSE. Mass disobedience will soon begin

0gac3yjefb5sv7

Tenzor07 wrote: »

From what I heard on RTE from Cillian De Gascun, they say that if they let the over 70s out for a couple of hours a day it would mean that others would be under a more severe lockdown.

No indication that the 2k limit will be changed to 5k either, he basically said "We want people to stay at home..."

no f9ckin plan at all..

Moving 2km to 5km would be pointless. Minimum risk and minimum benefit.

Spanish Eyes

Sounds perfectly formed for a total fightback and rebelliousness, (not by me I don't care and will observe the rules).

Then the Gardai flex their notebooks and well, fines galore, you know the rest.

But then there will be a fightback against a so called Police State.

Who can win here?