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Relaxation of restrictions Part II

Tokyo

Continuation of the "Relaxation of restrictions" from here.

Please note that all mod warnings and threadbans carry through from the previous thread.

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gozunda

lord quackinton wrote: »

So is there any country counting covid deaths correctly?
And if not what does that mean If we don’t know the true numbers?Check and mate

Check and mate my arse

Correct? Not your frankly rubbish league table selection for sure.

Ireland includes deaths outside hospitals - that's the point you evidently missed. Trying to make up bs comparisons with other countries who dont - doesn't really help the usual party political type propaganda diatribes being endlessly pushed on this thread

growleaves

There has been a hyper-sell of emotionalism and spin across journalism. On a social media website like this one it has been even worse.

There are people on this site who have extrapolated from hypothetical worst-case-scenarios at every given opportunity.

They never remember their wrong predictions or engage in self-reflection. Its just on to the next Spanish Flu-like scenario.

Meanwhile, other people are being ground down into poverty.

the kelt

When is "operation kick the can down the road" expected to be announced, Friday?

Two more weeks brings us conveniently to around 2 weeks from the June Bank Holiday so what odds on "operation kick the can down the road part 2" until after that bank holiday weekend?

If there was more transparency and honesty i think people would have less issues, mixed messages are all over the place and the obvious kite flying isnt helping either.

Its beginning to look like we havent handled this as well as is being portrayed at the minute, especially looking at other countries with similar or worse numbers. I mean travellers with free reign to do what they want, loopholes for people from Northern Ireland, could there actually be a chance that as bad as it assumed the UK has handled this they will get through it better and quicker than us (i havent followed the UK situation so dont honestly know, just wondering out loud)

For this to work we need compliance and buy in and i fear theyre pushing the boundaries of that, we all need to do our part, including the powers that be.

cadaliac

Deleted User wrote: »

The restrictions are already coming to an end. A few weeks back it was almost impossible to get a Tesco delivery. Now there are lots available. That’s because people are heading out to the shops again. Plenty of people out walking, jogging and exercising every evening now. Businesses are starting to open again were possible, for example supermacs doing drive through.

Plenty of people will take their freedom back even if lockdown is extended, and rightly so.

What part do you not get? Do you understand the principal of the lock down and why the government are deploying these measures?
Yet, loads of other businesses are disregarding the rules, encouraging people to disregard the rules and now, we are in the situation we are in.
The highlighted part of your statement is reckless.

polesheep

Hearty80 wrote: »

Do you think that was just clickbait? I thought it was leaked to them by the government?

You could be right and this government has a record of making announcements through leaks, however, I think they would be insane to tell people before the weekend. Although they could be kite flying.

Kermit.de.frog

polesheep wrote: »

Not a chance tbh. It has already begun to unravel and there is no logical reason the government can give for extending when we know that they haven't even tested the capacity of the hospitals and that people cannot see other people falling ill around them.

How do you know people have not seen other people fall ill around them? You might not have seen it.

That's the feiner attitude right there.

Benimar

polesheep wrote: »

Good for you. Good old me feinism.

It's not optional but it's also not very enforceable. And more and more people are making their own choices.

And people breaking restrictions, possibly putting others health at risk isn't me feinism??

Lyle

polesheep wrote: »

Have you noticed that stories about the majority of people going home from hospital completely recovered don't pop up? Or stories about the majority of people being either asymptomatic or only mildly affected don't pop up? Bad news sells more papers.

Yeah, and I really wish some journalists would try and shine a light on those people. Its getting difficult trying to steady the mind when most developments are negative in terms of the way the virus manifests itself in different people and in different places. It was fairly painful having to wait so long for recovered stats from NPHET as well.

Hopefully the mild illness people will start showing up more, but it is also important for the outlier cases in terms of new symptoms to be researched, published and disseminated to the broader public. What if we reopened schools and then the Kawasaki or other issues rose up in late June and we had a run of very sick and dying children? There's nothing to break the spirit of a country than seeing that kind of horrible affliction in the kids.

So as much as you're right that we do need some more positive stories about milder experiences, I do still think we also very much need to hear stories and evidence about the seemingly never-ending negative impacts of this virus, even if the supposed motivation behind it is just to shift a few more papers. I think understanding the disease at its worst should take priority over hearing stories of it at its easiest.

Tenzor07

retro:electro wrote: »

The 2k rule needs to go. It makes absolutely no sense that I’m being forced to walk my dog in a busy park that I would usually avoid, when I can drive 5k to a secluded area and walk in peace and not cross paths with a sinner. Families are also being forced to walk on rural roads in order to get their exercise, roads that drivers aren’t used to seeing pedestrian traffic on are now being used by mothers and fathers out walking their children and I’m actually amazed no one has been killed or seriously injured yet.

It's not only that, but this 2km restriction is truly bringing out the Fascist in a lot of people, the amount of hyperbole and downright hostility displayed by people during this crisis really does peel the thin veneer of what we call civil society.

What people have to remember is that when this crisis reaches some sort of control and society can return to a version of normality approaching what we used to have, those same people who want to criminalise others out for a walk in the countryside, at the beach, or driving 15km to get petrol still have to see those same people, will they still view their fellow man with the same levels of contempt??

growleaves

Analyst who bet against Anglo says 2008 crisis ‘a breeze’ compared to what is ahead

He predicts many European banks will be unable to cover bad loans arising from shutdowns, and that several will be “socialised” – or nationalised – and become “instruments of the State”.

Countries have already recorded “depression-era” figures in the economic slowdowns, he said.

“We don’t want a depression, but is it already too late to some extent? The longer we stay locked down, the higher the probability that that occurs. That is the political choice that will have to be made,” said Mr Murphy.

David Higgins, a research analyst with Carraighill, said that young people could blame government for the loss of their jobs if it is later discovered that countries such as Sweden fared better through the pandemic by not going into a severe lockdown.

“Then people will say for Ireland’s lockdown: ‘well, you shouldn’t have done that. I am unemployed now, and that is the fault of the government.’ You could have a weakening of trust between citizens and the State.”

Kermit.de.frog

polesheep wrote: »

Good for you. Good old me feinism.

It's not optional but it's also not very enforceable. And more and more people are making their own choices.

People have always been able to make their own choices.

The argument does not exist.

polesheep

is_that_so wrote: »

I think middle of the month, end of the month would probably be OK for May but not really beyond that.

Not a chance tbh. It has already begun to unravel and there is no logical reason the government can give for extending when we know that they haven't even tested the capacity of the hospitals and that people cannot see other people falling ill around them.

polesheep

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I have not found any of this as difficult as some people make out because it isn't.

A lot of hyperbole around about 'freedom' and all that nonsense.

We are in the middle of a pandemic. This requires special measures.

It's not optional, it's not a choice as some are trying to make out.

Good for you. Good old me feinism.

It's not optional but it's also not very enforceable. And more and more people are making their own choices.

Hearty80

polesheep wrote: »

If they don't ease restrictions on May 5th you will be just one of many people doing as they please, so I wouldn't worry about it. But if you are basing this on the clickbait article in the Independent... don't, it's a rag that publishes lies and nonsense.

Do you think that was just clickbait? I thought it was leaked to them by the government?

FishOnABike

Podge201 wrote: »

Spanish flu came from Spain.

It was reported more openly by the Spanish press because they did not have the strict war time censorship other countries did at the time but Spanish flu did not originate in Spain.

https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/10-misconceptions-about-the-1918-flu-the-greatest-pandemic-in-history

pgj2015

Gael23 wrote: »

Newstakk saying the over 70s will be allowed out for limited exercise

That is good of the government. not. I would be furious if I was over 70 and ordered to stay at home by the likes of Harris or Holohan. I wouldnt listen either.

polesheep

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Most people don't know how potentially nasty Covis19 really is.

The restrictions aren't there to make anyone happy or sad although they are a little bit difficult to deal with for week upon week.

Just because folk want to do "normal" things doesn't mean that fundamental health advice should be ignored for lifestyle or convenience.

Of course they do, but they are starting to realise that is not going to be nasty to everyone. In fact, it's only going to be nasty to a small percentage of the population that can be protected while everyone else gets on with life.

retro:electro

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Sound like a lot of poeople are saying that they're going to be doing things theyve been putting off for several weeks now regardless of the restrictions. The collective patience I spoke about yeserday has been exhasted and the government has bought as much time as it can.

I was extremely supportive of the three lads at the start, but the more this goes on and the longer we are being stringed along with absolutely no end is sight is just not acceptable. I live a very simple life as it stands, and at the start of these restrictions I thought grand, I can manage this for two weeks. Now though I am absolutely fed up. I’ve done all I can, and I feel like I’ve been prepared enough both mentally and behaviourally to try and adapt to a new way of living.

Leo needs to be prepared for a revolt if he comes on and adds another arbitrary two weeks. People won’t stand for it, and they also won’t believe it because that’s what they said last time and the time before. Where they had our compliance before, they will now lose it because everything they have asked of us has been achieved yet we are still being asked to remain in limbo land with no end in sight.

The 2k rule needs to go. It makes absolutely no sense that I’m being forced to walk my dog in a busy park that I would usually avoid, when I can drive 5k to a secluded area and walk in peace and not cross paths with a sinner. Families are also being forced to walk on rural roads in order to get their exercise, roads that drivers aren’t used to seeing pedestrian traffic on are now being used by mothers and fathers out walking their children and I’m actually amazed no one has been killed or seriously injured yet.

People can only be compliant up to a point. But when we have achieved what we were told to achieve and we are still being suspended in misery with no end in sight, people are going to just think **** it and do what they want.

is_that_so

Gael23 wrote: »

At this point public support continuing will be conditional on getting specific dates

I think middle of the month, end of the month would probably be OK for May but not really beyond that.

Gael23

Newstakk saying the over 70s will be allowed out for limited exercise

pgj2015

CorkFenian wrote: »
I read the Indo article and I hope you're right, found it very disheartening to read

Any reason why Indo would publish this? Can't see it helping anyone

To sell more papers. They just think of a headline to get peoples attention (true/untrue it doesnt matter to them)

Kermit.de.frog

polesheep wrote: »

Don't you socialise with friends and family? Do you not walk, cycle, run?

I have not found any of this as difficult as some people make out because it isn't.

A lot of hyperbole around about 'freedom' and all that nonsense.

We are in the middle of a pandemic. This requires special measures.

It's not optional, it's not a choice as some are trying to make out.

polesheep

Lyle wrote: »

I wonder if, in the coming days, the issues surrounding children, namely the Kawasaki disease/toxic shock/chronic inflammation, etc that are seemingly popping up all over the place the last few days, will come more to the forefront and change some perspectives and attitudes.

There's a different psychology to all this when you include the potential for children to suffer medically on top of all the upheaval they're currently dealing with from general societal change. Particularly when the potential for issues is there in the long term as we still don't have a clue what the big picture looks like a few years down the road in regards to how this virus may have long standing impacts on people's health, regardless of age.

I miss my job, really very badly, but every day there's some fresh story, some new wave of symptoms affecting a new group of people in some new way that puts the brakes on any thoughts that cross my mind that we're getting out the other side of this, even a little, any time soon.

It's a real pain, all this. Like getting a toepoke in the nads a few times a day. But it's still better than interstitial pneumonia or Covid toes or strokes or whatever else this mentaller of a virus can throw at you.

Have you noticed that stories about the majority of people going home from hospital completely recovered don't pop up? Or stories about the majority of people being either asymptomatic or only mildly affected don't pop up? Bad news sells more papers.

easypazz

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Most people don't know how potentially nasty Covis19 really is.

The restrictions aren't there to make anyone happy or sad although they are a little bit difficult to deal with for week upon week.

Just because folk want to do "normal" things doesn't mean that fundamental health advice should be ignored for lifestyle or convenience.

It can be lethal. It can kill people. I would struggle to find anybody who does not know how nasty it can be.

ELM327

Podge201 wrote: »

Spanish flu came from Spain.

That's almost certainly not true.
However this chinese flu came from china.

Kermit.de.frog

is_that_so wrote: »

I agree but it's not just the Indo making crap up by themselves.

The Irish Times have similar.

easypazz

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

No where is open, there is no where to go.

All academic really.

Just because you want to believe that, does not make it true.

Loads of businesses trading out the back door.

An ever increasing number very day.

polesheep

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

No where is open, there is no where to go.

All academic really.

Don't you socialise with friends and family? Do you not walk, cycle, run?

lord quackinton

gozunda wrote: »

The fact that Sweden and the UK were only counting deaths in hospitals isnt of concern for you and your imaginary league table? Or that the US has no uniform system for reporting coronavirus-related deaths?

You might want to go on the lash or whatever. Thankfully you are not in charge ..

Johan Giesecke, the former Swedish state epidemiologist and current advisor to the World Health Organization

As for calculating death figures. This may interest you.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html

So is there any country counting covid deaths correctly?
And if not what does that mean If we don’t know the true numbers?

Check and mate

Gael23

is_that_so wrote: »

Sure but they have given dates for other stuff. They may not be absolutely specific on dates but if all it is, is "at an appropriate date" it will not be worth publishing as it will just look made up.

At this point public support continuing will be conditional on getting specific dates